3 blown Power supply's in 6 months.

Hi all,
I have a P.C. that keeps blowing power supply's.
It is P4 2.4, Gigabyte GA-8IG100MK Main Board in a "whitebox" of
unknown make.
Low spec AGP video card
2 x Optical drives
1 x 80gig Seagate Barracuda
The last power supply it blew was a Unicase 400W Silent power supply.


I has been plugged into a middle of the road surge protector the whole
time (which seems to fine.)
This has all happened in the same house; however there hasn't been any
other power problems.

I'm thinking maybe it's the case because the problems happend when the
unit is being switched o every time.
Anyone else seen something like this?
TIA

Rob

Is the line power, from the electric company stable and
clean (no spikes, surges) ? Do you have any other
electrical problems? Is the computer on a circuit that is
isolated from heavy draw items such as motors (air
conditioners, washing machines) or do you see any
fluctuation in the lights?

Have you tried a "name brand" PSU from a company such as PC
Power & Cooling or Antec?


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.


"RobW" wrote in message
...
| Hi all,
| I have a P.C. that keeps blowing power supply's.
| It is P4 2.4, Gigabyte GA-8IG100MK Main Board in a
"whitebox" of
| unknown make.
| Low spec AGP video card
| 2 x Optical drives
| 1 x 80gig Seagate Barracuda
| The last power supply it blew was a Unicase 400W Silent
power supply.
|
|
| I has been plugged into a middle of the road surge
protector the whole
| time (which seems to fine.)
| This has all happened in the same house; however there
hasn't been any
| other power problems.
|
| I'm thinking maybe it's the case because the problems
happend when the
| unit is being switched o every time.
| Anyone else seen something like this?
| TIA
|
| Rob
|

On Mon, 9 May 2005 04:39:39 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

Is the line power, from the electric company stable and
clean (no spikes, surges) ? Do you have any other
electrical problems? Is the computer on a circuit that is
isolated from heavy draw items such as motors (air
conditioners, washing machines) or do you see any
fluctuation in the lights?

Have you tried a "name brand" PSU from a company such as PC
Power & Cooling or Antec?

Hi Jim,

Generally speaking the power from the electrical company is good.
No other electrical probs.
No heavy draw or fluctuation of lights either.
I haven't tried a name brand PSU as I have been too frightened it will
get fried like the others. Also, up to this point the supplier has
been replacing the PSU's under warranty.
They will no longer do this, :-) lol.
I'm really wondering if it is a problem with the case.
Especially since the damage seems to be happening when switching on
the machine.

Cheers.
Rob

A properly designed power supply cannot be damaged by the
load. A properly designed power supply can have all output
wires shorted together. Still the power supply must work just
fine after those shorted wires are disconnected.

To dump power supplies into a market of computer assemblers,
some manufacturers 'forget' to include standard functions.
This means a less expensive power supply results in greater
profits. Yet many computer assemblers will just swap out
power supplies rather than first learn what has failed; or
why.

The best evidence is a dead body. What inside those power
supplies failed. Without that information, no one can tell you
why power supplies are failing - other than note discounted
supplies are routinely missing essential functions. Functions
that even mean power supply failure could damage motherboard
and disk drives.

A properly manufactured power supply will not damage other
computer components. Power supply that is missing essential
functions can damage motherboard and RAM. Just another reason
why it is foolish to buy power supplies only on price and
watts. First thing that power supply must provide is a long
list of written and numeric specs. If not, then you are only
putting other computer components at risk.

Will other electrical appliances damage a power supply?
No. Destructive spikes from washing machines or vacuum
cleaner is another myth - if the power supply contains
minimally essential functions. Will voltage dimming (a sag or
brownout) cause power supply failure? Again no if the power
supply is properly constructed.

If the supply does not retail list for at least $60, then
you know it is missing essential function. Such power
supplies must also forget to provide any numerical
specifications.

However do you know those power supplies are damaged. For
example, a power supply under too much load will shut off to
protect itself. Then others will declare the power supply as
defective rather than first learn why the power supply shuts
down. A computer assembler should verify power supply output
voltages with a multimeter when system is first constructed.

Just a few places to start fixing the problem. Again, best
evidence is inside the failed power supplies. Information
that could result in an immediate and concise answer.
Currently we can only post a long list of possible reasons for
failure.

RobW wrote:
Generally speaking the power from the electrical company is good.
No other electrical probs.
No heavy draw or fluctuation of lights either.
I haven't tried a name brand PSU as I have been too frightened it will
get fried like the others. Also, up to this point the supplier has
been replacing the PSU's under warranty.
They will no longer do this, :-) lol.
I'm really wondering if it is a problem with the case.
Especially since the damage seems to be happening when switching on
the machine.

Cheers.
Rob

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
First thing that power supply must provide is a long
list of written and numeric specs.

This is still a user beware situation. Many PSU makers actually lie
about what load their product will support. They may rate the PSU as a
400W unit but include the voltages and their supposed load support when
those voltages aren't used, or they list an aggregate load for a common
rail voltage when the combined or simultaneously load will be much
smaller. That 400W cheapie PSU may only be able to actually support a
concurrent 200W to 300W load. Figure 50% to 75% of actual wattage
rating from a cheapie PSU. So you may simply be trying to suck out 300W
of an actual load from a PSU that can only supply 200W but has a "400W"
sticker on it. A good PSU will tell you what is the load available per
tap but also mention if there are any caveats regarding a combined load
limit across taps.

Just because it says 400W on its sticker doesn't mean it will actually
support that load level on all its taps at the same time. Not only is
that a concern but also many cheapie PSU makers will outright lie about
what load can be safely applied to any tap. There is also the problem
of excessive ripple. Although many computer components are designed to
accommodate some ripple, they won't handle it when it is so severe as to
look like a sawtooth pattern on an oscilloscope. It sounds like the OP
has been trying to get by on cheap PSUs and then wondering why they
blow. Sort of like buying the cheapest tires and expecting them to be
equivalent to the pricey ones. Your PSU provides the lifeblood of your
computer.

These undersized power supplies are why the 3.5 digit
multimeter is so much a powerful tool. Simply power up the
machine and measure all critical voltages. Then have machine
access all peripherals simultaneously. Play music on sound
card while each Command Prompt program accesses a disk drive,
CD-ROM, and floppy simultaneously. Access other computer disk
drives on the network. And use the internet. Do all
simultaneously and measure those voltages again. If the power
supply is sufficiently sized, those voltage will remain in the
upper three quarters of those defined voltage limits.

This does not mean the power supply contains other essential
functions - a good condition. But it will identify inferior
supplies - a bad condition. This load test being effective to
identify a sufficiently sized power supply - to confirm what
they claim in writing probably does exist.

What is so often missing in supplies that can't provide the
power as claimed? A long list of written and numeric specs.

Vanguard wrote:
"w_tom" wrote in message
...
First thing that power supply must provide is a long
list of written and numeric specs.

This is still a user beware situation. Many PSU makers actually lie
about what load their product will support. They may rate the PSU as a
400W unit but include the voltages and their supposed load support when
those voltages aren't used, or they list an aggregate load for a common
rail voltage when the combined or simultaneously load will be much
smaller. That 400W cheapie PSU may only be able to actually support a
concurrent 200W to 300W load. Figure 50% to 75% of actual wattage
rating from a cheapie PSU. So you may simply be trying to suck out 300W
of an actual load from a PSU that can only supply 200W but has a "400W"
sticker on it. A good PSU will tell you what is the load available per
tap but also mention if there are any caveats regarding a combined load
limit across taps.

Just because it says 400W on its sticker doesn't mean it will actually
support that load level on all its taps at the same time. Not only is
that a concern but also many cheapie PSU makers will outright lie about
what load can be safely applied to any tap. There is also the problem
of excessive ripple. Although many computer components are designed to
accommodate some ripple, they won't handle it when it is so severe as to
look like a sawtooth pattern on an oscilloscope. It sounds like the OP
has been trying to get by on cheap PSUs and then wondering why they
blow. Sort of like buying the cheapest tires and expecting them to be
equivalent to the pricey ones. Your PSU provides the lifeblood of your
computer.

These undersized power supplies are why the 3.5 digit
multimeter is so much a powerful tool. Simply power up the
machine and measure all critical voltages. Then have machine
access all peripherals simultaneously. Play music on sound
card while each Command Prompt program accesses a disk drive,
CD-ROM, and floppy simultaneously. Access other computer disk
drives on the network. And use the internet. Do all
simultaneously and measure those voltages again. If the power
supply is sufficiently sized, those voltage will remain in the
upper three quarters of those defined voltage limits.

This does not mean the power supply contains other essential
functions - a good condition. But it will identify inferior
supplies - a bad condition. This load test being effective to
identify a sufficiently sized power supply - to confirm what
they claim in writing probably does exist.

What is so often missing in supplies that can't provide the
power as claimed? A long list of written and numeric specs.

Vanguard wrote:
"w_tom" wrote in message
...
First thing that power supply must provide is a long
list of written and numeric specs.

This is still a user beware situation. Many PSU makers actually lie
about what load their product will support. They may rate the PSU as a
400W unit but include the voltages and their supposed load support when
those voltages aren't used, or they list an aggregate load for a common
rail voltage when the combined or simultaneously load will be much
smaller. That 400W cheapie PSU may only be able to actually support a
concurrent 200W to 300W load. Figure 50% to 75% of actual wattage
rating from a cheapie PSU. So you may simply be trying to suck out 300W
of an actual load from a PSU that can only supply 200W but has a "400W"
sticker on it. A good PSU will tell you what is the load available per
tap but also mention if there are any caveats regarding a combined load
limit across taps.

Just because it says 400W on its sticker doesn't mean it will actually
support that load level on all its taps at the same time. Not only is
that a concern but also many cheapie PSU makers will outright lie about
what load can be safely applied to any tap. There is also the problem
of excessive ripple. Although many computer components are designed to
accommodate some ripple, they won't handle it when it is so severe as to
look like a sawtooth pattern on an oscilloscope. It sounds like the OP
has been trying to get by on cheap PSUs and then wondering why they
blow. Sort of like buying the cheapest tires and expecting them to be
equivalent to the pricey ones. Your PSU provides the lifeblood of your
computer.

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
First thing that power supply must provide is a long
list of written and numeric specs.

This is still a user beware situation. Many PSU makers actually lie
about what load their product will support. They may rate the PSU as a
400W unit but include the voltages and their supposed load support when
those voltages aren't used, or they list an aggregate load for a common
rail voltage when the combined or simultaneously load will be much
smaller. That 400W cheapie PSU may only be able to actually support a
concurrent 200W to 300W load. Figure 50% to 75% of actual wattage
rating from a cheapie PSU. So you may simply be trying to suck out 300W
of an actual load from a PSU that can only supply 200W but has a "400W"
sticker on it. A good PSU will tell you what is the load available per
tap but also mention if there are any caveats regarding a combined load
limit across taps.

Just because it says 400W on its sticker doesn't mean it will actually
support that load level on all its taps at the same time. Not only is
that a concern but also many cheapie PSU makers will outright lie about
what load can be safely applied to any tap. There is also the problem
of excessive ripple. Although many computer components are designed to
accommodate some ripple, they won't handle it when it is so severe as to
look like a sawtooth pattern on an oscilloscope. It sounds like the OP
has been trying to get by on cheap PSUs and then wondering why they
blow. Sort of like buying the cheapest tires and expecting them to be
equivalent to the pricey ones. Your PSU provides the lifeblood of your
computer.

A properly designed power supply cannot be damaged by the
load. A properly designed power supply can have all output
wires shorted together. Still the power supply must work just
fine after those shorted wires are disconnected.

To dump power supplies into a market of computer assemblers,
some manufacturers 'forget' to include standard functions.
This means a less expensive power supply results in greater
profits. Yet many computer assemblers will just swap out
power supplies rather than first learn what has failed; or
why.

The best evidence is a dead body. What inside those power
supplies failed. Without that information, no one can tell you
why power supplies are failing - other than note discounted
supplies are routinely missing essential functions. Functions
that even mean power supply failure could damage motherboard
and disk drives.

A properly manufactured power supply will not damage other
computer components. Power supply that is missing essential
functions can damage motherboard and RAM. Just another reason
why it is foolish to buy power supplies only on price and
watts. First thing that power supply must provide is a long
list of written and numeric specs. If not, then you are only
putting other computer components at risk.

Will other electrical appliances damage a power supply?
No. Destructive spikes from washing machines or vacuum
cleaner is another myth - if the power supply contains
minimally essential functions. Will voltage dimming (a sag or
brownout) cause power supply failure? Again no if the power
supply is properly constructed.

If the supply does not retail list for at least $60, then
you know it is missing essential function. Such power
supplies must also forget to provide any numerical
specifications.

However do you know those power supplies are damaged. For
example, a power supply under too much load will shut off to
protect itself. Then others will declare the power supply as
defective rather than first learn why the power supply shuts
down. A computer assembler should verify power supply output
voltages with a multimeter when system is first constructed.

Just a few places to start fixing the problem. Again, best
evidence is inside the failed power supplies. Information
that could result in an immediate and concise answer.
Currently we can only post a long list of possible reasons for
failure.

RobW wrote:
Generally speaking the power from the electrical company is good.
No other electrical probs.
No heavy draw or fluctuation of lights either.
I haven't tried a name brand PSU as I have been too frightened it will
get fried like the others. Also, up to this point the supplier has
been replacing the PSU's under warranty.
They will no longer do this, :-) lol.
I'm really wondering if it is a problem with the case.
Especially since the damage seems to be happening when switching on
the machine.

Cheers.
Rob

On Mon, 9 May 2005 04:39:39 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

Is the line power, from the electric company stable and
clean (no spikes, surges) ? Do you have any other
electrical problems? Is the computer on a circuit that is
isolated from heavy draw items such as motors (air
conditioners, washing machines) or do you see any
fluctuation in the lights?

Have you tried a "name brand" PSU from a company such as PC
Power & Cooling or Antec?

Hi Jim,

Generally speaking the power from the electrical company is good.
No other electrical probs.
No heavy draw or fluctuation of lights either.
I haven't tried a name brand PSU as I have been too frightened it will
get fried like the others. Also, up to this point the supplier has
been replacing the PSU's under warranty.
They will no longer do this, :-) lol.
I'm really wondering if it is a problem with the case.
Especially since the damage seems to be happening when switching on
the machine.

Cheers.
Rob

Try another powercable it might have a faulty fuse.

"RobW" wrote:

Hi all,
I have a P.C. that keeps blowing power supply's.
It is P4 2.4, Gigabyte GA-8IG100MK Main Board in a "whitebox" of
unknown make.
Low spec AGP video card
2 x Optical drives
1 x 80gig Seagate Barracuda
The last power supply it blew was a Unicase 400W Silent power supply.


I has been plugged into a middle of the road surge protector the whole
time (which seems to fine.)
This has all happened in the same house; however there hasn't been any
other power problems.

I'm thinking maybe it's the case because the problems happend when the
unit is being switched o every time.
Anyone else seen something like this?
TIA

Rob

In article ,
says...
Try another powercable it might have a faulty fuse.

Power cables don't have fuses, at least not the ones I've seen connected
to computers in the US.

If you are killing PSU's and you are SURE THE INCOMMING POWER IS
GOOD/Clean, then you've got a device inside the computer that's
overloading the PSU.

You need to determine what part of the PSU is dead - is it a fuse on one
of the DC lines or one the AC of the PSU or something else.

Your spec's don't seem to need more than 350W would provide, but you
could have a shorted/intermittent connection where the screws mounting
the motherboard connect to the chassis - many times the installer will
not use the proper screw size (screw heads) and will short a trace
without knowing it's been done.

Disconnect everything, reseat the computers motherboard on the chassis,
make sure that every mounting post is accounted for and that none are
shorting out traces on the board, same for the screws.

I've also seen power leads (for drives) without a cap over them short
out on the metal parts of a case and blow a PSU.

--
--

remove 999 in order to email me

im from UK and every power cable has to have a fuse in UK so suppose it
depends where your from. if you use fuses it could well be a problem.

"Leythos" wrote:

In article ,
says...
Try another powercable it might have a faulty fuse.

Power cables don't have fuses, at least not the ones I've seen connected
to computers in the US.

If you are killing PSU's and you are SURE THE INCOMMING POWER IS
GOOD/Clean, then you've got a device inside the computer that's
overloading the PSU.

You need to determine what part of the PSU is dead - is it a fuse on one
of the DC lines or one the AC of the PSU or something else.

Your spec's don't seem to need more than 350W would provide, but you
could have a shorted/intermittent connection where the screws mounting
the motherboard connect to the chassis - many times the installer will
not use the proper screw size (screw heads) and will short a trace
without knowing it's been done.

Disconnect everything, reseat the computers motherboard on the chassis,
make sure that every mounting post is accounted for and that none are
shorting out traces on the board, same for the screws.

I've also seen power leads (for drives) without a cap over them short
out on the metal parts of a case and blow a PSU.

--
--

remove 999 in order to email me

In article ,
says...
im from UK and every power cable has to have a fuse in UK so suppose it
depends where your from. if you use fuses it could well be a problem.

I agree then, not knowing where the OP was from, it's a good assumption
to guess at the fused power cord if his country requires such.



"Leythos" wrote:

In article ,
says...
Try another powercable it might have a faulty fuse.

Power cables don't have fuses, at least not the ones I've seen connected
to computers in the US.

If you are killing PSU's and you are SURE THE INCOMMING POWER IS
GOOD/Clean, then you've got a device inside the computer that's
overloading the PSU.

You need to determine what part of the PSU is dead - is it a fuse on one
of the DC lines or one the AC of the PSU or something else.

Your spec's don't seem to need more than 350W would provide, but you
could have a shorted/intermittent connection where the screws mounting
the motherboard connect to the chassis - many times the installer will
not use the proper screw size (screw heads) and will short a trace
without knowing it's been done.

Disconnect everything, reseat the computers motherboard on the chassis,
make sure that every mounting post is accounted for and that none are
shorting out traces on the board, same for the screws.

I've also seen power leads (for drives) without a cap over them short
out on the metal parts of a case and blow a PSU.

--
--

remove 999 in order to email me



--
--

remove 999 in order to email me

I pulled the case and found a fuse that now resembles a used
firecracker which I guess came out of the PSU. (the PSU has a bottom
intake fan with large gaps).
I am going to take Leythos's suggestion and investigate which fuse on
the PSU is blown. I may have to get someone who knows what they are
looking at to examine it, :-).
I am in Australia and the mains is 240VAC.
The power leads have no fuses.
Thanks again and I will post the outcome for anyone who is interested.
Rob


On Mon, 09 May 2005 13:31:15 GMT, Leythos wrote:

In article ,
says...
im from UK and every power cable has to have a fuse in UK so suppose it
depends where your from. if you use fuses it could well be a problem.

I agree then, not knowing where the OP was from, it's a good assumption
to guess at the fused power cord if his country requires such.



"Leythos" wrote:

In article ,
says...
Try another powercable it might have a faulty fuse.

Power cables don't have fuses, at least not the ones I've seen connected
to computers in the US.

If you are killing PSU's and you are SURE THE INCOMMING POWER IS
GOOD/Clean, then you've got a device inside the computer that's
overloading the PSU.

You need to determine what part of the PSU is dead - is it a fuse on one
of the DC lines or one the AC of the PSU or something else.

Your spec's don't seem to need more than 350W would provide, but you
could have a shorted/intermittent connection where the screws mounting
the motherboard connect to the chassis - many times the installer will
not use the proper screw size (screw heads) and will short a trace
without knowing it's been done.

Disconnect everything, reseat the computers motherboard on the chassis,
make sure that every mounting post is accounted for and that none are
shorting out traces on the board, same for the screws.

I've also seen power leads (for drives) without a cap over them short
out on the metal parts of a case and blow a PSU.

--
--

remove 999 in order to email me



--