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#16
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*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*
On 2018/05/17, dadiOH wrote:
They hold the physical shortcuts to the programs listed on the start/programs menu. There are at least two - one for all users another for each user. Save them and you can replace them if need be. They have nothing to do with the rest of the physical start menu. If that's the case, then am I correct to assume you mean they hold the shortcust for only the left side of the Windows 10 start menu, which is an alphabetical listing of installed programs? If so, thanks for explaining that half the Win10 start menu (the right half only) is held in the "Database" hive at: %HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\ in the "Database" directory While the other half (the left half) of the Win10 Start Menu are those two other directories: Global: %ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs User: %AppData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs If that's correct, I'm going to add that to the strategy log that I'm writing. Thanks for that clarification. |
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#17
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*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 startmenu?*
On Thu, 17 May 2018 12:34:58 +0100, dadiOH wrote:
"Suzuki Ichiro" wrote in message news On 2018/05/16, Paul wrote: All I will say is that if the "Database" hive you kindly unearthed is truly what Microsoft uses for the Win10 start menu, then what the heck are these ancillary locations for? C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\ C:\Users\.\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\ C:\Users\.\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\ They hold the physical shortcuts to the programs listed on the start/programs menu. There are at least two - one for all users another for each user. Save them and you can replace them if need be. They have nothing to do with the rest of the physical start menu. They contain EVERYTHING in my start menu. A program is either installed for all users, or just for me. It therefore goes in one of those two locations above (not three, the third is just a subfolder of the second). -- A budget is just a method of worrying before you spend money, as well as afterwards. |
#18
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*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*
On 2018/05/17, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
They contain EVERYTHING in my start menu. A program is either installed for all users, or just for me. It therefore goes in one of those two locations above (not three, the third is just a subfolder of the second). A lot of people think what you just wrote, which is why I, myself, was confused by the conflicting information on the net. Luckily Paul instantly resolved the latent confusion when he found the "real" tiled start menu location, which is, apparently, in a proprietary database format, and mostly in a file named %HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\ve datamodel.edb Given what Paul kindly unearthed, here's my rough draft of a STRATEGY for an efficient set of tactics for organizing a start menu on Windows 10. If others have IMPROVEMENT SUGGESTIONS, that would be most welcome, since we can all learn from the experience of each of us. ***** ***** This is just a work-in-progress unfinished rough draft of my goal. 1. Create a folder for your menus that Windows & apps won't screw up. For example, cd C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\. mkdir menu Note that this folder is at the same level as the system folder: C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\. 2. Then populate that menu folder hieararchy with your menu hierarchy: WARNING: The Win10 StartMenu is limited to (2) bottom levels! For example: .\menu\archiver\compression\{7zip,winrar,izarc,etc .} .\menu\archiver\encryption\{pgp,veracrypt,openpgp, etc.} .\menu\browser\cmd\{curl,wget,bashshell,etc.} .\menu\browser\torrent\{deluge,bittorrent,utorrent ,etc.} .\menu\browser\web\{firefox,chrome,iron,etc.} .\menu\cleaner\{ccleaner,bleachbit,jetclean,etc.} .\menu\database\{googleearth,msaccess,cubrid,etc.} .\menu\editor\pic\{pinta,photoshop,mspaint,etc.} .\menu\editor\snd\{audacity,id3tag,goldwave,etc.} .\menu\editor\txt\{vim,notepad,lemmy,etc.} .\menu\editor\vid\{shotcut,handbrake,super,etc.} .\menu\finance\{turbotax,taxcut,quicken,etc.} .\menu\game\{steam,gtracing,jetpackjoyride,etc.} .\menu\hardware\discauthor\{devede,dvdflick,bombon o,etc.} .\menu\hardware\discburn\{imgburn,nero,cdburnerxp, etc.} .\menu\hardware\driver\{dd,drvback,drivermax,etc.} .\menu\hardware\hdd\{acronis,diskmon,partitionmagi c,etc.} .\menu\hardware\ipod\{sharepod,syncios,itunes,etc. } .\menu\hardware\printer\{hp2170,fineprint,posteraz or,etc.} etc. Note a Win10 StartMenu limitiation is 2 levels of hierarchy only! That is, you can't have 3 or more levels of menu hierarchy: .\menu\hardware\disc\author\{devede,dvdflick,bombo no,etc.} .\menu\hardware\disc\burn\{imgburn,nero,cdburnerxp ,etc.} But you must bring them up one level: .\menu\hardware\discauthor\{devede,dvdflick,bombon o,etc.} .\menu\hardware\discburn\{imgburn,nero,cdburnerxp, etc.} Note: See steps below for locations to most existing app shortcuts. Note: The actual hierarchy is immaterial - use what makes sense to you. 3. Optional: Add that combined hierarchical menu to your taskbar. http://i.cubeupload.com/hk5fq8.jpg Right click on the taskbar Toolbars New toolbar... Select Folder C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\your-menu\ Note: This combined menu hierarchy serves as an excellent backup as it can be reproduced easily, on the same or other similar box. 4. Manually populate the Win10 Start Menu tiles based off of "your-menu". a. For each program shortcut in the folder: Right click Pin to Start b. To create a new group, slide a tile to an empty space. c. To create a new sub-group, slide a tile on top of another tile. WARNING: The left side of the Win10 start menu is comprised from: Global: %ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs User: %AppData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs The right side of the Win10 start menu is the "edb" file hive at: %HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\ http://i.cubeupload.com/LSBPGI.jpg Specifically, the right side of the Win10 StartMenu is the "edb" file: %HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\ve datamodel.edb http://i.cubeupload.com/YRxNRK.jpg 5. Optional, add tiles with links to commonly used folder hierarchies: C:\temp C:\software C:\data C:\apps etc. 6. Once done, back up the Win10 StartMenu binary database folder. Temporarily enable the built-in Windows Administrator Cortana Computer Management Local Users and Groups Users Administrator (uncheck) Account is disabled Apply OK http://i.cubeupload.com/TkxzBC.jpg Sign-out of your Windows 10 account. Sign-in using another account or the built-in Administrator account. File Explorer View Hidden Items Navigate to C:\Users\ichiro\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\ Copy C:\Users\ichiro\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Databa se\ Paste "Database" to where you want the Windows start menu archived. 7. When needed, you can replace the Win10 StartMenu with your archive: On another machine, as another account or the built-in Administrator. Rename the existing "Database" folder to "Database.bak". Paste your new "Database" folder in its place. This mechanism has the advantage that is consistent, and easily backed up, and easily ported from one machine to itself (after reinstalls) or to other similarly setup boxes. Improvement suggestions are always welcome. |
#19
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*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 startmenu?*
Suzuki Ichiro wrote:
On 2018/05/16, Paul wrote: You could use Linux, to convert the tiny file in the "database" folder, into separate files, to better understand what exactly is in there. Even using a hex editor, like HxD, you can get some idea what entries are in there. Interesting idea to look inside the edb file: %HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\ve datamodel.edb http://i.cubeupload.com/YRxNRK.jpg Do you think the "edb" is the critical file? It's only 1MB (literally 1024KB, while the rest are literally double that). The file sizes in that directory seem pre-ordained. http://i.cubeupload.com/LSBPGI.jpg In databases, generally a power-of-two quanta is used to bump up the size of the main database file. Some databases use 64KB quanta, others 256KB. For example, a database with nothing in it, might be 256KB in size. If you write 256KB+1byte of content to the database, on the last byte, the allocator bumps the ..edb file size to 512KB. So space is "reserved" in a sense, before it is needed. The newly allocated chunk holds zeros, until a write process decides to load non-zero content into it. That will help account for the "nice round numbers" you see for .edb file size. Then, what do I check for ? The .edb can never be zero bytes in size - if it were, it would mean no software is running to manage the file. If the file is "min_size", it could be empty, having from 0 to 256KB of content. If the file is 1024KB, then we know the real content size is between 768KB and 1024KB. That's a hint that *something* is stored in there. And if you only needed 1KB of information per entry, then you could store a thousand entries in that much space. Using a database dumper, would attempt to use the schema information inside the database file, to dump the contents in a semi-intelligent fashion. The database dumping process doesn't tell you the relationship between internal chunks. For example, to piece together the names of all the files scanned by Windows Search, requires reading two dumped files in tandem to make sense of what's inside the database. The database is relational, and when you tear a database apart with a dumper, the relations could be lost, and you have to use your noodle to figure it out then. In Firefox, multiple sqlite files are tied to one another by index numbers. The "schema" used to be available as a ball-and-stick drawing, showing which files referred to which other files. The purpose of showing this to people, is so they won't be tempted to just "erase" a part of a single file, because that makes the file set "inconsistent". And there will be trouble. In the case of your database project, there's only one database file. So edits to the database, only have to be internally consistent (and for the same reasons as in the Firefox case). The Windows.edb, the dumper converts it into *40* files. To give you some idea how complicated it is. And just two of the files, allow you to create a list of scanned files to date. Some of the files are huge and contain the inverted search index. Paul |
#20
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*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*
On 2018/05/17, Paul wrote:
That will help account for the "nice round numbers" you see for .edb file size. I don't disagree, Mr. Paul, where both the file size and file dates seem to be pre-ordained in that orthodox (aka right side) Windows 10 tile menu you found. I'm curious how you found that database, because I didn't find it in my searching, where all I found were (as noted in the OP) allusions to the binary proprietary database. Of course, once you KNOW the names and locations, it's easy to find on the net, but how did you find that orthodox tile-menu hive so easily, when I couldn't (and when nobody else here seems to have known about it). Did you ALREADY know about that orthodox hive before I had asked? That's a hint that *something* is stored in there. And if you only needed 1KB of information per entry, then you could store a thousand entries in that much space. There are plenty of hints on the net that the Win10 orthodox tile-menu hive is limited to 500 entries, which would seem to indicate that each entry is a certain size, and only 500 are allowed. The odd thing is that the date of the file doesn't change when you change the orthodox Win10 tile menu. That's an indication that something 'secret' is underfoot - don't you think? |
#21
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*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*
On 2018/05/16, Suzuki Ichiro wrote:
*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?* Googling, I find this very confusing answer: https://superuser.com/questions/9604...-in-windows-10 So that all always benefit from every action of the team, just now I updated that thread, anonymously, to add the following information: It's true that the (some say silly) proprietary binary Win10 StartMenu database is located at: - **Orthodox:** %HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\ But that's not the whole story (AFAICT). There is a right (orthodox) side to the Windows 10 start menu (groups & tiles), and a left side (alphabetical words) ... where that left side comprises at least two components (user and global). So that makes for three locations, if you consider both the alphabetical and orthodox portions of the Windows 10 Start Menu. Left side (alphabetical app names): - **Global:** %ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\ - **User:** %AppData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\ The orthodox (right side tiles) of the Win10 startmenu is the binary hive at: - **Orthodox:** %HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\ve datamodel.edb Note that this orthodox tile-menu hive is of fixed 1024KB size (which likely explains the reputed limit of 500 entries) and fixed date (which likely indicates the purported secret things going on inside of Win10 that I can't myself explain but maybe others can explain). As proof of concept, (as admin or another user) you can COPY the entire binary orthodox "Database" hive, and then change your Windows 10 orthodox menus, and then copy back your archived orthodox hive, and you'd get your old menus back. |
#22
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Suzuki Ichiro's method of setting and archiving Win 10 Start Menu
On 5/17/2018 11:26 PM, Suzuki Ichiro wrote:
On 2018/05/17, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: Luckily Paul instantly resolved the latent confusion when he found the "real" tiled start menu location, which is, apparently, in a proprietary database format, and mostly in a file named %HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\ve datamodel.edb Given what Paul kindly unearthed, here's my rough draft of a STRATEGY for an efficient set of tactics for organizing a start menu on Windows 10. If others have IMPROVEMENT SUGGESTIONS, that would be most welcome, since we can all learn from the experience of each of us. ..... This mechanism has the advantage that is consistent, and easily backed up, and easily ported from one machine to itself (after reinstalls) or to other similarly setup boxes. Improvement suggestions are always welcome. Could someone script this whole thing? I think we need a special program under a special user account to do it1 -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不*錢! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 不求神! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
#23
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Suzuki Ichiro's method of setting and archiving Win 10 Start Menu
On 2018/05/17, "Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote:
Could someone script this whole thing? I think we need a special program under a special user account to do it1 I think this is a good idea, where there are "stages" but only in the FIRST stage is there difference between people. But I'm no programmer. So it won't be me (I do this stuff manually). Even so, once you have stage 1 done, everything else should be easy. Stage 1 = organize your apps how you like (everyone organizes differently). I organize mine by function (i.e., what do they "do") but people have all sorts of ideas how to organize - and that's just fine, as long as they are organized. So pick any hierarchy you like (it's like organizing your tool drawers, where one drawer is screwdrivers, another is wrenches, another is pliers, etc.). It's up to you if you want to separate the Phillips from the Flathead screwdrivers, for example (e.g., I separate privacy browsers from regular browsers and I separate dvd burners from dvd creators, for example). Organization is up to you. (Although I posit that we all do exactly the SAME THINGS on our boxes!) (Just like we all do the same things in our kitchens and garages.) (And yet, we all organize differently.) Once you have *that* organized hierarchy though, the rest is *easy* because the rest is purely programmatic; so, let's assume you have stage 1 done, and, for the sake of argument, let's assume this is your organization. cd "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\menu\" mkdir menu\archiver mkdir menu\browser mkdir menu\cleaner The first thing you do is "populate" the archiver with your archivers, which might be, for example, your 7zip.lnk, winrar.lnk, & izarc.lnk shortcuts. Then you populate the browser hierarchy with, for example, your firefox.lnk, chrome.lnk, and iron.lnk shortcuts. And you populate your cleaner hierarchy with, for example, your ccleaner.lnk, bleachbit.lnk, and filedup.lnk shortcuts. (Remember: The hierarch decision is the hardest part of this process - but that's what organization is all about - you have to decide where to put the spoons, and the forks, and the dishes, and the glasses in the kitchen too). Once you have that hierarchy, notice that you *already* have a portable hierarchy that works on all machines, simply because you're likely to do the same things using the same tools on all machines (and I put things in the same spots, which, I should note, uses the *same* hiearchy, but that's just fineesse. You can use the default hierarchies for installed programs.). The rest is easy as you populate your Win10 orthodox tile menu with the SAME hierarchy. The hard part, of course, is HOW to do that, which I can't help with, but if there was a way to program the orthodox tile menu, then it's easy as the blueprint is the shortcut-hierarchy folder (which is really the MASTER folder). So the key question is how would someone create the orthodox tile menu from the C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\menu\ menu? You need some kind of API into the proprietary orthodox tile menu hive, don't you? Mr. Paul? This sounds like a job for your Mr. Phelps! |
#24
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Suzuki Ichiro's method of setting and archiving Win 10 Start Menu
On 2018/05/17, Suzuki Ichiro wrote:
I organize mine by function (i.e., what do they "do") but people have all sorts of ideas how to organize - and that's just fine, as long as they are organized. While everyone has their own organizational method, here is just one example of a Windows organizational method that includes a representative sample of known best-in-class freeware. If you think something that is best-in-class is missing, just say so and we can add it easily as the organizational system is extensible. It's sophisticated finesse to have all three directory trees matching: a) Menu tree b) Software archive tree c) App installation tree But it's not a requirement (it makes it easier to remember where things are if all three hierarchies are the same). **************** end apptree.bat **************** mkdir archiver\7zip\ mkdir archiver\imzip\ mkdir archiver\izarc\ mkdir archiver\macrium\ mkdir archiver\photorec\ mkdir archiver\recuva\ mkdir archiver\veracrypt\ mkdir browser\cmd\curl\ mkdir browser\cmd\wget\ mkdir browser\http\ch\chrome\plugins\ mkdir browser\http\ch\chromium\ mkdir browser\http\ch\dooble\ mkdir browser\http\ch\dragon\ mkdir browser\http\ch\epic\ mkdir browser\http\ch\iron\ mkdir browser\http\ch\opera\ mkdir browser\http\ch\vivaldi\ mkdir browser\http\edge\clearbrowserhistory\ mkdir browser\http\edge\save_prompt\ mkdir browser\http\ff\firefox\ghacks\ mkdir browser\http\ff\firefox\plugins57-\ mkdir browser\http\ff\firefox\plugins57+\ mkdir browser\http\ff\icedragon\ mkdir browser\http\ff\palemoon\ mkdir browser\http\ff\seamonkey\ mkdir browser\http\ff\tbb\ mkdir browser\nntp\dialog\ mkdir browser\nntp\nzbget\ mkdir browser\nntp\pan\comm mkdir browser\nntp\sabnzbd\ mkdir browser\torrent\deluge\ mkdir browser\torrent\transmission\ mkdir browser\torrent\utorrent\ mkdir cleaner\cleaner\ mkdir cleaner\dupcleaner\ mkdir cleaner\flashcleaner\ mkdir cleaner\installdirchanger\ mkdir cleaner\ms_malicious_sw_removal\ mkdir cleaner\revo_uninstaller\ mkdir cleaner\unchecky\ mkdir database\key\belarc\ mkdir database\key\keyfinder\ mkdir database\key\magicaljellybean\ mkdir database\key\magicaljellybean\ mkdir database\key\sandra\ mkdir database\key\showkeyplus\ mkdir database\key\speccy\ mkdir database\map\gpsbabel\ mkdir database\map\oziexplorer\ mkdir database\map\qgis\ mkdir database\map\usgs_map\ mkdir editor\audio\audacity\ mkdir editor\audio\id3tag\ mkdir editor\audio\mp3tag\ mkdir editor\convert\ffmpeg\ mkdir editor\convert\handbrake\ mkdir editor\convert\super\ mkdir editor\hex\hxd\ mkdir editor\pic\imagick\ mkdir editor\pic\inkscape\ mkdir editor\pic\irfanview\ mkdir editor\pic\paintnet\ mkdir editor\pic\psp5\ mkdir editor\pic\sketchup\ mkdir editor\pic\suite\cs2\ mkdir editor\pic\vicman\ mkdir editor\pspdf\ghostscript\ mkdir editor\pspdf\ghostview\ mkdir editor\pspdf\pdftk\pdftk_cmd\ mkdir editor\pspdf\pdftk\pdftk_gui\ mkdir editor\pspdf\pdfxchange\ mkdir editor\pspdf\sumatra\ mkdir editor\suite\libreoffice\ mkdir editor\suite\msoffice\ mkdir editor\time\almsim\ mkdir editor\time\eggtimer\ mkdir editor\time\freewatch\ mkdir editor\time\rainlendar\ mkdir editor\txt\notepad++\ mkdir editor\txt\vim\ mkdir editor\vid\mpc\ mkdir editor\vid\mpc\klite\ mkdir editor\vid\shotcut\ mkdir editor\vid\virtualdub\ mkdir editor\vid\vlc\ mkdir editor\vid\youtubedl\ mkdir finance\ttax\ mkdir game\steam\ mkdir hardware\brcddvd\author\devede\ mkdir hardware\brcddvd\author\dvdflick\ mkdir hardware\brcddvd\burn\burnaware\ mkdir hardware\brcddvd\burn\cdburnxp\ mkdir hardware\brcddvd\burn\imgburn\ mkdir hardware\brcddvd\burn\infrarecorder\ mkdir hardware\cpu\cpu-z\ mkdir hardware\cpu\gpu-z\ mkdir hardware\cpu\speedfan\ mkdir hardware\driver\doubedriver\ mkdir hardware\driver\drvback\ mkdir hardware\driver\thispc\ mkdir hardware\hdd\acronis\ mkdir hardware\hdd\diskmon\ mkdir hardware\hdd\partmagic\ mkdir hardware\hdd\partwizard\ mkdir hardware\ipod\sharepod\ mkdir hardware\keyboard\sharpkeys\ mkdir hardware\printer\posterazor\ mkdir hardware\radio\mikrotik\winbox\ mkdir iso\linux\knoppix\ mkdir iso\linux\ubuntu\ mkdir iso\msoffice\ mkdir iso\windows\ mkdir mailer\tbird\ mkdir mailer\tbird\ mkdir network\firewall\comodo\ mkdir network\firewall\glassware\ mkdir network\ftp\filezilla\ mkdir network\ftp\winscp\ mkdir network\sniffer\fiddler\ mkdir network\sniffer\inssider\ mkdir network\sniffer\networkmeter\ mkdir network\sniffer\networkmeter\ mkdir network\sniffer\pinginfoview\ mkdir network\sniffer\smartsniff\ mkdir network\sniffer\tcpview\ mkdir network\sniffer\wireshark\ mkdir network\vpn\openvpn\ mkdir network\vpn\protonvpn\ mkdir network\whois\idserv\ mkdir os\apnote\android\ mkdir os\apnote\ios\ mkdir os\apnote\linux\ mkdir os\apnote\windows\ mkdir os\font\fontfrenzy\ mkdir os\menu\classic\ mkdir os\ms_media_creation_tool\ mkdir os\nirsoft\ mkdir os\ps\processhack\ mkdir os\ps\processmon\ mkdir os\runtime\gtk\ mkdir os\runtime\java\ mkdir os\runtime\python\ mkdir os\script\ mkdir os\sysinternals\ mkdir os\virtual\virtualbox\ mkdir os\winaero\ **************** end apptree.bat **************** |
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