Tip: Heads up on M$ Office

Hi All,

Office 2019 now only runs on Windows 10.

And those inglorious ass holes at M$ have discontinued any support/sales
for Office 2016.

Work arounds

1) install sh*tty Windows 10

2) install the freaking Office 365 lease license

3) get a volume license with downgrade rights

4) install buggy Libre Office (get a good set of ear plug
for when the customer yells "I DON'T WANT TO LEARN
ANYTHING NEW!!!").

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

-T

On 05 Nov 2019, T wrote
(in article ):

Hi All,

Office 2019 now only runs on Windows 10.

Incorrect. Office 2019 also runs on macOS, and iPadOS, and iOS, and Android.

https://products.office.com/en-US/of...m-requirements

Older versions of MS Office 2019 still work, and run on Windows 7, 8, and
8.1.


And those inglorious ass holes at M$ have discontinued any support/sales
for Office 2016.

Incorrect. They have killed sales, but there is still support

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...e/search/18412



Work arounds

1) install sh*tty Windows 10

Why? Office 2019 is running fine in my Win 7 VM.



2) install the freaking Office 365 lease license

Absolutely no need to do that.



3) get a volume license with downgrade rights

No need for that, either


4) install buggy Libre Office (get a good set of ear plug
for when the customer yells "I DON'T WANT TO LEARN
ANYTHING NEW!!!").

You need a better class of customer.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

-T

incorrect. There are numerous alternatives to MS Office and LibreOffice.
Examples:

https://www.wordperfect.com/en/
https://www.apple.com/iwork/
https://www.google.com/docs/about/
https://www.openoffice.org

further examples are detectable using the search engine of your choice.

On 11/5/19 5:59 PM, Wolffan wrote:
On 05 Nov 2019, T wrote
(in article ):

Hi All,

Office 2019 now only runs on Windows 10.

Incorrect. Office 2019 also runs on macOS, and iPadOS, and iOS, and Android.

https://products.office.com/en-US/of...m-requirements

Older versions of MS Office 2019 still work, and run on Windows 7, 8, and
8.1.


And those inglorious ass holes at M$ have discontinued any support/sales
for Office 2016.

Incorrect. They have killed sales, but there is still support

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...e/search/18412



Work arounds

1) install sh*tty Windows 10

Why? Office 2019 is running fine in my Win 7 VM.

I just spent two hours on the phone with everyone at M$. Office 2019 is
only supported on Windows 10. THEY WON'T
BUDGE and THEY WON'T EXCHANGE IT. They are ass holes.

2019's installer is adamant about you upgrading to Windows
Nein, oops, Windows Ten.

Whatever you did, I'd love to know! I have a 2019
license that refused to install on a customer's Windows 7.
Maybe you should recheck your version number?

If yours really does run in 7, where did you get your ISO/IMG?


2) install the freaking Office 365 lease license

Absolutely no need to do that.

I do not care at all for 365. A leased license
that spies on you???


3) get a volume license with downgrade rights

No need for that, either

That is the only other way according to M$. And
they will not exchange me.

4) install buggy Libre Office (get a good set of ear plug
for when the customer yells "I DON'T WANT TO LEARN
ANYTHING NEW!!!").

You need a better class of customer.

I specialize in low skill users. These are good people
to be cherished.


incorrect. There are numerous alternatives to MS Office and LibreOffice.
Examples:

https://www.wordperfect.com/en/
https://www.apple.com/iwork/
https://www.google.com/docs/about/
https://www.openoffice.org

further examples are detectable using the search engine of your choice.

They are completely locked in to M$O. I personally do not
care for it, but a lot of folks like it. I suffer buggy
Libre Office.

T wrote:

They are completely locked in to M$O. I personally do not
care for it, but a lot of folks like it. I suffer buggy
Libre Office.

If they are locked into Microsoft Office (their choice, not a
requirement), why aren't they also locked into an OS on which they've
locked into old versions of software?

Do these same users also try to play CDs on an LP player? You don't
change the OS unless demanded by critical software required for your
business. Usually it's the other way around: you have critical and old
software that demands you stay on an old version of the OS.

On 11/5/19 7:16 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

They are completely locked in to M$O. I personally do not
care for it, but a lot of folks like it. I suffer buggy
Libre Office.

If they are locked into Microsoft Office (their choice, not a
requirement), why aren't they also locked into an OS on which they've
locked into old versions of software?

1) they are cheap (most customers are).

2) they hate Windows 10 (I have only come across
one customer who likes it)

Do these same users also try to play CDs on an LP player? You don't
change the OS unless demanded by critical software required for your
business. Usually it's the other way around: you have critical and old
software that demands you stay on an old version of the OS.


Not a valid argument.

Windows 7 is a perfectly functional operating system.
Office 2019 will not install on it for one reason and
one reason only: M$ are ass holes. M$ is trying to
force folk on to Nein so they can sell their telemetry.

T wrote:
On 11/5/19 7:16 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

They are completely locked in to M$O. I personally do not
care for it, but a lot of folks like it. I suffer buggy
Libre Office.

If they are locked into Microsoft Office (their choice, not a
requirement), why aren't they also locked into an OS on which they've
locked into old versions of software?

1) they are cheap (most customers are).

2) they hate Windows 10 (I have only come across
one customer who likes it)

Windows 7 is going out of support in January so of course MS aren't going
let their flagship desktop product run on a system they don't even support.
You're not helping your clients in enabling them to run unsupported
software. Today is office, but from January many other programs will stop
being supported on windows 7. They need to realise if they want support
they need to move with the times. You do too.

Windows is a commercial product which you licence. Don't like the terms of
licence? Then choose something else.

I had this issue with my FIL and winxp. The final straw for him was when
norton still wanted money despite their software not working on the windows
he was using. I moved him to linux. No more fees and no upgrades he didn't
want.

Do these same users also try to play CDs on an LP player? You don't
change the OS unless demanded by critical software required for your
business. Usually it's the other way around: you have critical and old
software that demands you stay on an old version of the OS.


Not a valid argument.

Windows 7 is a perfectly functional operating system.

Only for two more months. It is 10 years old.

Office 2019 will not install on it for one reason and
one reason only: M$ are ass holes. M$ is trying to
force folk on to Nein so they can sell their telemetry.

Yup. Why are you railing against it? They've always been like this. That's
why i don't choose windows by preference.

T wrote:

On 11/5/19 7:16 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

They are completely locked in to M$O. I personally do not
care for it, but a lot of folks like it. I suffer buggy
Libre Office.

If they are locked into Microsoft Office (their choice, not a
requirement), why aren't they also locked into an OS on which they've
locked into old versions of software?

1) they are cheap (most customers are).

2) they hate Windows 10 (I have only come across
one customer who likes it)

Do these same users also try to play CDs on an LP player? You don't
change the OS unless demanded by critical software required for your
business. Usually it's the other way around: you have critical and old
software that demands you stay on an old version of the OS.

Not a valid argument.

Windows 7 is a perfectly functional operating system.
Office 2019 will not install on it for one reason and
one reason only: M$ are ass holes. M$ is trying to
force folk on to Nein so they can sell their telemetry.

If those customers are locked into MS Office then they already have a
version of MS Office. What version of MS Office do they now have that
won't run under Windows 7?

Since they're already using an older version of MS Office than 2019,
there is no requirement to move to Windows 10. What features in MS
Office 2019 do these customers think they absolutely require for their
business?

On 2019-11-06, T wrote:
I specialize in low skill users. These are good people
to be cherished.
...
They are completely locked in to M$O. I personally do not
care for it, but a lot of folks like it. I suffer buggy
Libre Office.

Then explain to them the consequences of their intransigence. If they
insist on using only Microsoft Office then they either pay Microsoft in
perpetuity for Office 365 or install Windows 10 so they can run Office
2019. Those are their choices. That's what technology lock-in is all
about.

I have little or no sympathy for people who want to use this technology
without bothering to understand any of it. (I've worked with people
who have used PCs for decades and still don't know what a file or
directory is and cannot even tell me where the file they lost was
located or what its name was.)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 11/5/19 7:32 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-11-06, T wrote:
I specialize in low skill users. These are good people
to be cherished.
...
They are completely locked in to M$O. I personally do not
care for it, but a lot of folks like it. I suffer buggy
Libre Office.

Then explain to them the consequences of their intransigence. If they
insist on using only Microsoft Office then they either pay Microsoft in
perpetuity for Office 365 or install Windows 10 so they can run Office
2019. Those are their choices. That's what technology lock-in is all
about.


I did eMail the office manager and ask how she wanted to proceed.


I have little or no sympathy for people who want to use this technology
without bothering to understand any of it. (I've worked with people
who have used PCs for decades and still don't know what a file or
directory is and cannot even tell me where the file they lost was
located or what its name was.)

I can't disagree with your there. The thing is, if they
knew what they were doing, they would not need me. And,
since they put food on my table, they are to be cherished.

M$ is playing hard ball trying to get their telemetry
they can sell. I explain to them that XP and 7 are
perfectly fine operating systems. M$ is doing their
damnedest to get them off of them and it is only going
to get more painful with time.

On 2019-11-06, T wrote:
I can't disagree with your there. The thing is, if they
knew what they were doing, they would not need me. And,
since they put food on my table, they are to be cherished.

Users don't need to be experts at systems and networking, just the basics
would do. Like how to navigate a directory tree, or just looking at and
having some understanding of what is on their screen instead of staring
and drooling. They will still need someone who has deeper knowledge to
do the heavy lifting.

M$ is playing hard ball trying to get their telemetry
they can sell. I explain to them that XP and 7 are
perfectly fine operating systems. M$ is doing their
damnedest to get them off of them and it is only going
to get more painful with time.

Although I install them for others (which is why I am here), I have not
used Microsoft products in over 20 years. The last version of Windows
I recall using on one of my own PCs was Windows 98. I've never used any
of the Microsoft Office products.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

T wrote:
On 11/5/19 7:32 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-11-06, T wrote:
I specialize in low skill users. These are good people
to be cherished.
...
They are completely locked in to M$O. I personally do not
care for it, but a lot of folks like it. I suffer buggy
Libre Office.

Then explain to them the consequences of their intransigence. If they
insist on using only Microsoft Office then they either pay Microsoft in
perpetuity for Office 365 or install Windows 10 so they can run Office
2019. Those are their choices. That's what technology lock-in is all
about.


I did eMail the office manager and ask how she wanted to proceed.


I have little or no sympathy for people who want to use this technology
without bothering to understand any of it. (I've worked with people
who have used PCs for decades and still don't know what a file or
directory is and cannot even tell me where the file they lost was
located or what its name was.)

I live with someone like this. Some people don't care, aren't interested or
just don't get it. For many a computer is just like a car; they want it to
work when they turn the key and are only interested in doing the basics to
keep it running.

I can't disagree with your there. The thing is, if they
knew what they were doing, they would not need me. And,
since they put food on my table, they are to be cherished.

They pay you for your expertise. As a business they shouldbe aware of and
prepared for change. You should be also.

M$ is playing hard ball trying to get their telemetry
they can sell. I explain to them that XP and 7 are
perfectly fine operating systems.

You're wrong. In a business they are not "perfectly fine ". XP on network
is a serious vulnerability which leaves them open to malware and ransomware
attacks. 7 will be the same soon.

M$ is doing their
damnedest to get them off of them and it is only going
to get more painful with time.

They have always done this. It's only as painful as you make it. You've had
plenty of time to develop migration plans with your clients.

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 03:32:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
wrote:

On 2019-11-06, T wrote:
I specialize in low skill users. These are good people
to be cherished.
...
They are completely locked in to M$O. I personally do not
care for it, but a lot of folks like it. I suffer buggy
Libre Office.

Then explain to them the consequences of their intransigence. If they
insist on using only Microsoft Office then they either pay Microsoft in
perpetuity for Office 365 or install Windows 10 so they can run Office
2019. Those are their choices. That's what technology lock-in is all
about.

Office 365 and Office 2019 are indeed valid choices, but if they're running
an older Win OS they could also look at:
Office 2016
Office 2013
Office 2010
Office 2007
Office 2003 --OK, getting a bit crazy there, but I know people who still
use it.

I have little or no sympathy for people who want to use this technology
without bothering to understand any of it. (I've worked with people
who have used PCs for decades and still don't know what a file or
directory is and cannot even tell me where the file they lost was
located or what its name was.)

Hard to argue with that.

--

Char Jackson

On 2019-11-06, Char Jackson wrote:
Office 2003 --OK, getting a bit crazy there, but I know people who still
use it.

So do I. It works fine for them as long as they don't need to work with
documents created in newer versions. (The conversion addon from Microsoft
is old and doesn't always work well.)

I figured there would be old versions available on eBay and other sources
but you've got to be careful about bogus copies that won't activte. As I
recall, 2003 was the last version that didn't phone home.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 05 Nov 2019, Char Jackson wrote
(in ):

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 03:32:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
wrote:

On 2019-11-06, T wrote:
I specialize in low skill users. These are good people
to be cherished.
...
They are completely locked in to M$O. I personally do not
care for it, but a lot of folks like it. I suffer buggy
Libre Office.

Then explain to them the consequences of their intransigence. If they
insist on using only Microsoft Office then they either pay Microsoft in
perpetuity for Office 365 or install Windows 10 so they can run Office
2019. Those are their choices. That's what technology lock-in is all
about.

Office 365 and Office 2019 are indeed valid choices, but if they're running
an older Win OS they could also look at:
Office 2016
Office 2013
Office 2010
Office 2007
Office 2003 --OK, getting a bit crazy there, but I know people who still
use it.

Office 2003 will run on Win 7, it just won’t install. There are ways around
the installer, including installing it elsewhere and using something like
LapLink to move it.

I’d just use 2013 or 2016. There are those who still use 2003. There’s
one particular person around here who still runs Office 97. Really. I’ve
told him to not request support, that thing is literally older than some of
my interns.


I have little or no sympathy for people who want to use this technology
without bothering to understand any of it. (I've worked with people
who have used PCs for decades and still don't know what a file or
directory is and cannot even tell me where the file they lost was
located or what its name was.)

Hard to argue with that.

yep.

On 05 Nov 2019, T wrote
(in article ):

On 11/5/19 5:59 PM, Wolffan wrote:
On 05 Nov 2019, T wrote
(in article ):

Hi All,

Office 2019 now only runs on Windows 10.

Incorrect. Office 2019 also runs on macOS, and iPadOS, and iOS, and Android.

https://products.office.com/en-US/of...m-requirements

Older versions of MS Office 2019 still work, and run on Windows 7, 8, and
8.1.


And those inglorious ass holes at M$ have discontinued any support/sales
for Office 2016.

Incorrect. They have killed sales, but there is still support

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...e/search/18412



Work arounds

1) install sh*tty Windows 10

Why? Office 2019 is running fine in my Win 7 VM.

I just spent two hours on the phone with everyone at M$. Office 2019 is
only supported on Windows 10. THEY WON'T
BUDGE and THEY WON'T EXCHANGE IT. They are ass holes.

That’s very interesting, as I have it running on Macs. And my iPad. And my
Win 7 VM. And I can and have got support for it on Macs and iOS, and, in
times past, on Win 7. Haven’t tried to get support for Office 2019 on Win 7
for at least a year, perhaps they’ve changed, but I got support for Office
2019 on Mac less than two weeks ago. The latest update arrived on 19 Oct.
They’re still pestering me to join their beta team. _Someone_ at Microsoft
thinks that Office 2019 is supported on something other than Win 10.


2019's installer is adamant about you upgrading to Windows
Nein, oops, Windows Ten.

Whatever you did, I'd love to know! I have a 2019
license that refused to install on a customer's Windows 7.
Maybe you should recheck your version number?

I installed Office 2019 into Win 7 VMs last year, as an update from Office
2016. I had no problems.


If yours really does run in 7, where did you get your ISO/IMG?

Microsoft, by way of the local community college. It’s Office 2019
University; they don’t want to admit that it still exists, you have to
drill pretty deep to find it, and you have to have a valid email from a
school which is a member of their program. (Office 2019 University is,
effectively, Office Pro. Please note that there’s also Office 365
University, which they also don’t want to admit exists but which they’d
rather you used than the stand-alone version.) The OS is the Education
version of Win 7, effectively Win 7 Enterprise, running in a VMWare VM; this
version of Win 7 is allergic to Hyper-V. Office 2019 University is, for us,
$100/seat; Office 365 University is $80/seat and good for four years, when it
turns into the Pro version and is then $150/year/seat. Thanks, I’ll keep
using the stand-alone version.


2) install the freaking Office 365 lease license

Absolutely no need to do that.

I do not care at all for 365. A leased license
that spies on you???

And you can install the standalone.



3) get a volume license with downgrade rights

No need for that, either

That is the only other way according to M$. And
they will not exchange me.

All I can say is to escalate it until you reach someone with sense.


4) install buggy Libre Office (get a good set of ear plug
for when the customer yells "I DON'T WANT TO LEARN
ANYTHING NEW!!!").

You need a better class of customer.

I specialize in low skill users. These are good people
to be cherished.

incorrect. There are numerous alternatives to MS Office and LibreOffice.
Examples:

https://www.wordperfect.com/en/
https://www.apple.com/iwork/
https://www.google.com/docs/about/
https://www.openoffice.org

further examples are detectable using the search engine of your choice.

They are completely locked in to M$O. I personally do not
care for it, but a lot of folks like it. I suffer buggy
Libre Office.

then you have a problem.