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#1
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Slowing computer.
I have many HDDs connected to my computer and it runs 24/7.
My unit has an SSD system disk and 12GB RAM. Will adding more RAM speed things up, or is some limit reached with extra RAM? |
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#2
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Slowing computer.
Peter Jason wrote:
my unit has an SSD system disk and 12GB RAM. Will adding more RAM speed things up Unlikely I'd say, unless you're running something that eats most of that 12GB, you'll have plenty of RAM for caching and the SSD is already fast. |
#3
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Slowing computer.
"Peter Jason" wrote in message .. . I have many HDDs connected to my computer and it runs 24/7. My unit has an SSD system disk and 12GB RAM. Will adding more RAM speed things up, or is some limit reached with extra RAM? Are you running 32bit or 64bit Windows 10 ? 32 bit is only able to use around 3.5 GB of ram. If you monitor your ram usage and it isn't being all used up, that usually means more ram won't really help. (Task Manager- rt click on bottom task bar and left click on Task Manager), That will bring up the Task Manager, Near the bottom left side, Left click on 'More details and then Left click on Performance. Do that while the majority of your programs are running. Buffalo4 |
#4
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Slowing computer.
On Fri, 08 Dec 2017 10:02:15 +1100, Peter Jason wrote:
I have many HDDs connected to my computer and it runs 24/7. My unit has an SSD system disk and 12GB RAM. Will adding more RAM speed things up, or is some limit reached with extra RAM? It's not a matter of a limit. Whether it will make your computer faster or not depends on what programs you run, and with some programs graphics editors, video editors), how big are the files you use with them. For *most* home users, 12GB is more than enough, and adding more RAM will do nothing. |
#5
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Slowing computer.
On Thu, 07 Dec 2017 16:20:40 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote: On Fri, 08 Dec 2017 10:02:15 +1100, Peter Jason wrote: I have many HDDs connected to my computer and it runs 24/7. My unit has an SSD system disk and 12GB RAM. Will adding more RAM speed things up, or is some limit reached with extra RAM? It's not a matter of a limit. Whether it will make your computer faster or not depends on what programs you run, and with some programs graphics editors, video editors), how big are the files you use with them. For *most* home users, 12GB is more than enough, and adding more RAM will do nothing. It's as I feared. My machine runs Windows10 pro 64bit. The motherboard... Ga-x58a-ud7_v.2.0 (2010) ...has almost all PCE & PCEe slots used, feeding HDDs & USB3 cards (which suppy still more HDDs.) Should I overhaul things by installing a new motherboard, (which?) or would a satellite computed be more efficient? |
#6
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Slowing computer.
On Thu, 7 Dec 2017 16:18:13 -0700, "Buffalo"
wrote: "Peter Jason" wrote in message . .. I have many HDDs connected to my computer and it runs 24/7. My unit has an SSD system disk and 12GB RAM. Will adding more RAM speed things up, or is some limit reached with extra RAM? Are you running 32bit or 64bit Windows 10 ? 32 bit is only able to use around 3.5 GB of ram. If you monitor your ram usage and it isn't being all used up, that usually means more ram won't really help. (Task Manager- rt click on bottom task bar and left click on Task Manager), That will bring up the Task Manager, Near the bottom left side, Left click on 'More details and then Left click on Performance. Do that while the majority of your programs are running. It's reading 4GB at the moment, but I'll keep an eye on it. Buffalo4 |
#7
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Slowing computer.
Peter Jason wrote:
I have many HDDs connected to my computer and it runs 24/7. My unit has an SSD system disk and 12GB RAM. Will adding more RAM speed things up, or is some limit reached with extra RAM? How have you determined the machine is slowing up ? At the 12GB level, you're pretty well past the point where more is going to help. You would have some idea if you had actual "resource hog" software running, which actually makes use of that RAM. You could probably get Firefox to eat it all, but it would take a substantial number of open tabs. Some joker in a thread I was reading, claims to have been able to open 4000 tabs on Firefox, but I think he was pulling our leg. If this is a problem with Torrents, that kind of software creates a lot of stale connections that use up routing tables. This has been known to "tip over" routers. For example, my piddly little router here, can be tipped over by *Windows*, and I don't even need torrents to stress it, it's that bad of a product. I couldn't believe it one night, when an OS upgrade was coming in, and the LED on the router started to flash (which means it's "begging for mercy" - it's not smart enough to restart on its own). Does Windows have a connection limit ? Is Windows not able to age out stale connections fast enough to prevent table exhaustion ? Dunno. You'd have to look through some postings on a Torrent software site, to see if Windows has known problems with this sort of thing. I could absolutely kill your OS, by running the NeatVideo plugin in demo mode (a tool for removing noise from videos), as it leaks pool on purpose, until the OS freezes up. You could buy more RAM in a pathological case like that, but all that would do is extend the time until the OS froze, by a couple hours. Originally, the designer of NeatVideo, wanted to limit free usage of his product to around 30 minutes. But using newer OSes, you can stretch that to around 24 hours (because the pool is bigger, after WinXP era). But if you don't stick a fork in the thing before it's too late, it'll freeze the OS on you, and you cannot use Task Manager to kill it. I think I was getting Delayed Write failures before the end. And I'd waited too long to stop it. Try and be a bit more specific about your use-case, as there are some things on computers you cannot fix with a credit card :-) Paul |
#8
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Slowing computer.
On Thu, 07 Dec 2017 19:07:48 -0500, Paul wrote:
Peter Jason wrote: I have many HDDs connected to my computer and it runs 24/7. My unit has an SSD system disk and 12GB RAM. Will adding more RAM speed things up, or is some limit reached with extra RAM? How have you determined the machine is slowing up ? At the 12GB level, you're pretty well past the point where more is going to help. You would have some idea if you had actual "resource hog" software running, which actually makes use of that RAM. You could probably get Firefox to eat it all, but it would take a substantial number of open tabs. Some joker in a thread I was reading, claims to have been able to open 4000 tabs on Firefox, but I think he was pulling our leg. I think he was pulling your leg, as well. I currently have about 270 tabs open, and without closing any, I wanted to open a saved session that would have put me at around 415 tabs. Firefox crashed in seconds. Restarting it a few times resulted in a quick crash each time. So I doubt the claim of 4000 tabs. |
#9
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Slowing computer.
On Thu, 07 Dec 2017 19:07:48 -0500, Paul
wrote: Peter Jason wrote: I have many HDDs connected to my computer and it runs 24/7. My unit has an SSD system disk and 12GB RAM. Will adding more RAM speed things up, or is some limit reached with extra RAM? How have you determined the machine is slowing up ? At the 12GB level, you're pretty well past the point where more is going to help. You would have some idea if you had actual "resource hog" software running, which actually makes use of that RAM. You could probably get Firefox to eat it all, but it would take a substantial number of open tabs. Some joker in a thread I was reading, claims to have been able to open 4000 tabs on Firefox, but I think he was pulling our leg. If this is a problem with Torrents, that kind of software creates a lot of stale connections that use up routing tables. This has been known to "tip over" routers. For example, my piddly little router here, can be tipped over by *Windows*, and I don't even need torrents to stress it, it's that bad of a product. I couldn't believe it one night, when an OS upgrade was coming in, and the LED on the router started to flash (which means it's "begging for mercy" - it's not smart enough to restart on its own). Does Windows have a connection limit ? Is Windows not able to age out stale connections fast enough to prevent table exhaustion ? Dunno. You'd have to look through some postings on a Torrent software site, to see if Windows has known problems with this sort of thing. I could absolutely kill your OS, by running the NeatVideo plugin in demo mode (a tool for removing noise from videos), as it leaks pool on purpose, until the OS freezes up. You could buy more RAM in a pathological case like that, but all that would do is extend the time until the OS froze, by a couple hours. Originally, the designer of NeatVideo, wanted to limit free usage of his product to around 30 minutes. But using newer OSes, you can stretch that to around 24 hours (because the pool is bigger, after WinXP era). But if you don't stick a fork in the thing before it's too late, it'll freeze the OS on you, and you cannot use Task Manager to kill it. I think I was getting Delayed Write failures before the end. And I'd waited too long to stop it. Try and be a bit more specific about your use-case, as there are some things on computers you cannot fix with a credit card :-) Paul Hi, I have kept it in sight but the RAM hardly varies at all, flat-lining at 5GB all the time, while the CPU (950 i7 8core)flies up & dowm from 8% to 40% while sorting images and transcoding movies. The SSD shows great fluctuations too. |
#10
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Slowing computer.
On Thu, 7 Dec 2017 16:18:13 -0700, "Buffalo"
wrote: "Peter Jason" wrote in message . .. I have many HDDs connected to my computer and it runs 24/7. My unit has an SSD system disk and 12GB RAM. Will adding more RAM speed things up, or is some limit reached with extra RAM? Are you running 32bit or 64bit Windows 10 ? 32 bit is only able to use around 3.5 GB of ram. Can Windows 10 use PAE? If you monitor your ram usage and it isn't being all used up, that usually means more ram won't really help. (Task Manager- rt click on bottom task bar and left click on Task Manager), That will bring up the Task Manager, Near the bottom left side, Left click on 'More details and then Left click on Performance. Do that while the majority of your programs are running. Buffalo4 |
#11
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Slowing computer.
Peter Jason wrote:
Hi, I have kept it in sight but the RAM hardly varies at all, flat-lining at 5GB all the time, while the CPU (950 i7 8core)flies up & dowm from 8% to 40% while sorting images and transcoding movies. The SSD shows great fluctuations too. i7-950 3GHz, 4C 8T, LGA1366, 6x4GB DDR3 max memory (triple channel) No Quicksync (no internal GPU) Since your CPU isn't railed, I take it the observed slowness is in file operations ? In Task Manager, you'd look at whether individual programs could account for the RAM usage. Just to estimate whether the OS has grabbed that RAM, or it's your programs using it. The System Write Cache on your system, could only queue up maybe 1.5GB of writes. I'm not all the big a fan of the System Write Cache, because I think it makes the file writing process stutter some times. But I've resisted the temptation to find a way to shut it off. It could be that your image sorting process is somehow causing the file system to slow down. And since the RAM isn't actually full, adding more will make minimal difference. Even release 16299 of the OS, still hasn't fixed the Chrome build bug, where the mouse will slow down enough it will start to stutter during process forking attempts. But your system isn't oversubscribed (you're running at 40% CPU), so that bug really shouldn't be visible in your circumstances. Keeping the CPU pinned at 100% for long periods of time, with a lot of program starts, tends to make that one worse, and even if you reboot to clean it up, the symptoms come back after as little as 30 minutes of pinned CPU. I don't really think I could do much to tune your system. And in Windows, the File Explorer seems to have more trouble with large file counts, than the NTFS file system itself. File Explorer does stupid stuff with only 50,000 files in a folder, whereas NTFS can handle a lot more than that without appearing flaky. My guess is, your file sorting program has something to do with this, but I don't know what exactly. Paul |
#12
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Slowing computer.
Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Thu, 7 Dec 2017 16:18:13 -0700, "Buffalo" wrote: "Peter Jason" wrote in message ... I have many HDDs connected to my computer and it runs 24/7. My unit has an SSD system disk and 12GB RAM. Will adding more RAM speed things up, or is some limit reached with extra RAM? Are you running 32bit or 64bit Windows 10 ? 32 bit is only able to use around 3.5 GB of ram. Can Windows 10 use PAE? Of course. It applies PAE to get NX (page table format quirk). They need a place to store the NX bit, to protect data segments from attempts to execute them (malware). The NX stands for "no execution of this segment", that's the basic idea. If the program counter wanders into such an area, there's an access violation or something. Chunks of memory are basically labeled according to their intended purpose (data or instructions). But the OS applies MS memory license of 4GB, so PAE cannot be used for its intended purpose. Even though PAE is perfectly willing to map stuff above 4GB, the MS memory license cuts it off at the knees. And that's where our 32-bit OS limitation comes from. A dude here, hacks Vista 32-bit, to run all 8GB of RAM on the guys machine. Just to show that PAE really works on Vista+. And this is done by defeating the memory license barrier. http://www.geoffchappell.com/notes/w...nse/memory.htm Paul |
#13
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Slowing computer.
You should describe your problem more. What exactly has become slow?
With enough RAM (8 GB are my standard for an end user machine) you could tweak caching a bit: Activate Readyboost on your SSD (maximum 32 GB): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyBoost Play around with Primocache: https://www.romexsoftware.com/en-us/primo-cache/ Regards M. |
#14
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Slowing computer.
On Fri, 08 Dec 2017 10:54:06 +1100, Peter Jason wrote:
feeding HDDs & USB3 cards (which suppy still more HDDs.) Is caching in the device manager activated for all disks? Some sorts of caching will need an UPS (Uninterruptible power supply). Should I overhaul things by installing a new motherboard, (which?) or would a satellite computed be more efficient? Another machine will make your LAN a bottleneck. 1 GBit LAN will max out at about 100-110 MB/s. Regards M. |
#15
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Slowing computer.
On Fri, 08 Dec 2017 10:02:15 +1100, Peter Jason wrote
in I have many HDDs connected to my computer and it runs 24/7. How many? -- Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one. Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those newspapers delivered to your door every morning. |
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