hibernation or stand by?

What is the difference in hibernation and the system going into system
standby? I notice sometimes when I take my system off hibernate, it will be
set to go into standby. I have x64 but I don't suppose CPU type would matter
on this one.

Bill

Bill,

What is the difference in hibernation and the system going
into system standby?

The difference is that the standby mode keeps everything in ram (and thus
the system needs to stay powered-up -- though it will use quite a bit less
as most components will really be powered down), while hybernate writes the
current state to disk before shutting down (so it can load and than resume
from that saved state).

The first one is quicker, but stil needs power. The latter one is slower,
but doesn't need any.

Most systems are configured to go to hibernation if the (laptops) power
drops below a certain threshold (even when its currently in standby).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


-- Origional message:
Bill Cunningham schreef in berichtnieuws
...
What is the difference in hibernation and the system going into system
standby? I notice sometimes when I take my system off hibernate, it will
be
set to go into standby. I have x64 but I don't suppose CPU type would
matter
on this one.

Bill

On 3/30/2017 11:18 AM, Bill Cunningham wrote:
What is the difference in hibernation and the system going into system
standby? I notice sometimes when I take my system off hibernate, it will be
set to go into standby. I have x64 but I don't suppose CPU type would matter
on this one.

Bill


There are a bunch of tradeoffs.
Last time I looked at it, reviewers asserted that, for lots of
RAM and a mechanical hard drive, you can sit in standby for
several hours using the power that would be required to
hibernate/restore your laptop.

Windows 10 has some interaction between shutdown and hibernation.
Quick boot speeds the boot by restoring some stuff saved
from the last shutdown.

Il giorno Thu 30 Mar 2017 10:24:39p, *R.Wieser* ha inviato su
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general il messaggio
. Vediamo cosa ha scritto:

The latter one is slower,
but doesn't need any.


according to something I read in the past, and retrieved a few minutes ago,
this is not completely true, but is it true?:

Hibernate: Your computer saves its current state to your hard drive,
essentially dumping the contents of its RAM into a file on its hard drive.
When you boot up the computer, it will load the previous state from your
hard drive into its RAM. This allows you to save your computer’s state,
including all your open programs and data, and come back to it later. It
takes longer to resume from hibernate than sleep, but hibernate uses much
less power than sleep. *A computer that’s hibernating uses about the same
amount of power as a computer that’s shut down.*
Address : https://www.howtogeek.com/128507/htg...ould-you-shut-
down-sleep-or-hibernate-your-laptop/

§

I remember something like 6 months, but I can't find the reason of this.

Wiki says:
Like a powered down system, the power source from a system in hibernation
can be removed without any state loss risk[citation needed].
Address : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernation_(computing)

and this is not the same thing written above.

Note also, below in the same page: Both shut down and hibernated systems
may consume standby power unless they are unplugged.

--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
http://www.bb2002.it
............ [ al lavoro ] ...........

In message 12,
Ammammata writes:
Il giorno Thu 30 Mar 2017 10:24:39p, *R.Wieser* ha inviato su
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general il messaggio
. Vediamo cosa ha scritto:

The latter one is slower,
but doesn't need any.


according to something I read in the past, and retrieved a few minutes ago,
this is not completely true, but is it true?:

Hibernate: Your computer saves its current state to your hard drive,
essentially dumping the contents of its RAM into a file on its hard drive.
[]
less power than sleep. *A computer that’s hibernating uses about the same
amount of power as a computer that’s shut down.*
[]
Like a powered down system, the power source from a system in hibernation
can be removed without any state loss risk[citation needed].
[]
(Standby: everything still in RAM.)

A PC (in hibernate or shut down), when connected to a power source, will
consume some power; for a desktop, it will keep the clock running [if
disconnected from power the clock runs from the CMOS cell], and also the
small amount of circuitry that works when in "off" condition - such as
"wake on LAN" if you have that activated, or even just the circuitry
that monitors the power button. A laptop will I think run those parts,
and in addition, will keep the battery trickle-charged (or more
sophisticated version of that), and will light a light around the edge
to show power is still connected. (A desktop may have such a light too,
though often on the motherboard rather than visible outside the case.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"When the people fear the government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

On 3/30/2017 11:41 PM, Ammammata wrote:
Il giorno Thu 30 Mar 2017 10:24:39p, *R.Wieser* ha inviato su
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general il messaggio
. Vediamo cosa ha scritto:

The latter one is slower,
but doesn't need any.


according to something I read in the past, and retrieved a few minutes ago,
this is not completely true, but is it true?:

Hibernate: Your computer saves its current state to your hard drive,
essentially dumping the contents of its RAM into a file on its hard drive.
When you boot up the computer, it will load the previous state from your
hard drive into its RAM. This allows you to save your computer’s state,
including all your open programs and data, and come back to it later. It
takes longer to resume from hibernate than sleep, but hibernate uses much
less power than sleep. *A computer that’s hibernating uses about the same
amount of power as a computer that’s shut down.*
Address : https://www.howtogeek.com/128507/htg...ould-you-shut-
down-sleep-or-hibernate-your-laptop/

§

I remember something like 6 months, but I can't find the reason of this.

Wiki says:
Like a powered down system, the power source from a system in hibernation
can be removed without any state loss risk[citation needed].
Address : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernation_(computing)

and this is not the same thing written above.

Note also, below in the same page: Both shut down and hibernated systems
may consume standby power unless they are unplugged.

It's all a matter of context.
Exactly what problem are you trying to solve?
It takes a lot of energy to roll 8GB of ram out to a hard drive, then
roll it back into ram.
Take the energy consumed per unit of sleep time and divide it into the
hibernation out/in energy. You'll find a break even point.
For short periods, sleep uses less total energy than hibernation.
Just how short that is is the result of the above calculation.

If you stuff your laptop into a briefcase, you might want to hibernate
so the thing doesn't melt if it pops out of sleep for some reason.

Ammammata,

according to something I read in the past, and retrieved a few minutes
ago, this is not completely true, but is it true?:
....
Hibernate: Your computer saves its current state to your hard
drive, essentially dumping the contents of its RAM into a file on its
hard drive.
When you boot up the computer, it will load the previous state
from your hard drive into its RAM.

As far as I can tell, that's the same as what I said.

It takes longer to resume from hibernate than sleep

I did not mention "sleep" (do not even know what that supposed to mean), so
I cannot respond to it. But if you ment "standby" where you wrote "sleep"
than your "It takes longer to resume from hibernate than sleep, but
hibernate uses much less power than sleep" is also the same as what I wrote.

So I'm confused: what is it thats "not completely true" ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


-- Origional message:
Ammammata schreef in berichtnieuws
2...
Il giorno Thu 30 Mar 2017 10:24:39p, *R.Wieser* ha inviato su
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general il messaggio
. Vediamo cosa ha scritto:

The latter one is slower,
but doesn't need any.


according to something I read in the past, and retrieved a few minutes
ago,
this is not completely true, but is it true?:

Hibernate: Your computer saves its current state to your hard drive,
essentially dumping the contents of its RAM into a file on its hard drive.
When you boot up the computer, it will load the previous state from your
hard drive into its RAM. This allows you to save your computer's state,
including all your open programs and data, and come back to it later. It
takes longer to resume from hibernate than sleep, but hibernate uses much
less power than sleep. *A computer that's hibernating uses about the same
amount of power as a computer that's shut down.*
Address : https://www.howtogeek.com/128507/htg...ould-you-shut-
down-sleep-or-hibernate-your-laptop/

§

I remember something like 6 months, but I can't find the reason of this.

Wiki says:
Like a powered down system, the power source from a system in hibernation
can be removed without any state loss risk[citation needed].
Address : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernation_(computing)

and this is not the same thing written above.

Note also, below in the same page: Both shut down and hibernated systems
may consume standby power unless they are unplugged.

--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
http://www.bb2002.it
........... [ al lavoro ] ...........

Il giorno Fri 31 Mar 2017 12:26:26p, *R.Wieser* ha inviato su
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general il messaggio
. Vediamo cosa ha scritto:

So I'm confused: what is it thats "not completely true" ?



better quoting:
The first one is quicker, *but stil needs power*. The latter one is
slower, *but doesn't need any*.


--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
http://www.bb2002.it
............ [ al lavoro ] ...........

Ammammata,

[Quote: Me]
The first one [standby] is quicker, but stil needs power. The latter one
[hybernate] is slower, but doesn't need any.
[/quote](the [...] parts taken from the paragraph directly above the quote,
added for clarity)

Isn't that what I said ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser



Ammammata schreef in berichtnieuws
2...
Il giorno Fri 31 Mar 2017 12:26:26p, *R.Wieser* ha inviato su
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general il messaggio
. Vediamo cosa ha scritto:

So I'm confused: what is it thats "not completely true" ?



better quoting:
The first one is quicker, *but stil needs power*. The latter one is
slower, *but doesn't need any*.


--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
http://www.bb2002.it
........... [ al lavoro ] ...........

"R.Wieser" wrote in message
...
Bill,

What is the difference in hibernation and the system going
into system standby?

The difference is that the standby mode keeps everything in ram (and thus
the system needs to stay powered-up -- though it will use quite a bit less
as most components will really be powered down), while hybernate writes
the
current state to disk before shutting down (so it can load and than resume
from that saved state).

The first one is quicker, but stil needs power. The latter one is slower,
but doesn't need any.

Most systems are configured to go to hibernation if the (laptops) power
drops below a certain threshold (even when its currently in standby).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

I see. Well mine is configured to go into "nothing". When mine is on
it's on. No standby no hibernation. But my machine isn't on all the time. I
can see where this would be most useful to someone perhaps with a server up
and on all the time. Perhap hibernation would be best, but IDK. When I leave
for a bit, I have been setting it on hibernate. When I disable that I see it
goes into system standby after a time.

Bill

Il giorno Fri 31 Mar 2017 05:08:19p, *R.Wieser* ha inviato su
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general il messaggio
. Vediamo cosa ha scritto:

Isn't that what I said ?


I understood that "The latter one [hybernate] is slower, but doesn't need
any [power]."

I added [power] that was inplied, ok, but the links I posted say that even
if you hybernate the system there is a minimum power consumption.

quoting myself1
hibernate uses much less power than sleep. *A computer that’s hibernating
uses about the same amount of power as a computer that’s shut down.*
Address : https://www.howtogeek.com/128507/htg...ould-you-shut-
down-sleep-or-hibernate-your-laptop/
/quotingmyself1

quoting myself2
Wiki says:
Like a powered down system, the power source from a system in hibernation
can be removed without any state loss risk[citation needed].
Address : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernation_(computing)

and this is not the same thing written above [I'm referring to howtogeek]

Note also, below in the same [wikipedia] page: Both shut down and
hibernated systems may consume standby power unless they are unplugged.
/quotingmyself2

summary:
in one case (no power consumptio) or the other (minimum consumption), who
cares, since the hybernate data has been written on disk?
or there is a flag somewhere in the bios/ram/disk/other that indicates this
[hybernate] state and can be lost (the flag I mean) in some cases, thus
blocking the possibility to restore the state?

--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
http://www.bb2002.it
............ [ al lavoro ] ...........

Ammammata,

I understood that "The latter one [hybernate] is slower, but doesn't
need any [power]."

Ok. Thats good.

I added [power] that was inplied, ok, but the links I posted say that even
if you hybernate the system there is a minimum power consumption.

Ah, but than you're not talking about hybernate or standby anymore.

But yes, if you or anyone has configured their computer to keep some things
active (like WOL/WOKM (lan, keyboard/mouse) ) than the *system in its whole*
ofcourse still needs power.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Ammammata schreef in berichtnieuws
2...
Il giorno Fri 31 Mar 2017 05:08:19p, *R.Wieser* ha inviato su
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general il messaggio
. Vediamo cosa ha scritto:

Isn't that what I said ?


I understood that "The latter one [hybernate] is slower, but doesn't need
any [power]."

I added [power] that was inplied, ok, but the links I posted say that even
if you hybernate the system there is a minimum power consumption.

quoting myself1
hibernate uses much less power than sleep. *A computer that's hibernating
uses about the same amount of power as a computer that's shut down.*
Address : https://www.howtogeek.com/128507/htg...ould-you-shut-
down-sleep-or-hibernate-your-laptop/
/quotingmyself1

quoting myself2
Wiki says:
Like a powered down system, the power source from a system in hibernation
can be removed without any state loss risk[citation needed].
Address : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernation_(computing)

and this is not the same thing written above [I'm referring to howtogeek]

Note also, below in the same [wikipedia] page: Both shut down and
hibernated systems may consume standby power unless they are unplugged.
/quotingmyself2

summary:
in one case (no power consumptio) or the other (minimum consumption), who
cares, since the hybernate data has been written on disk?
or there is a flag somewhere in the bios/ram/disk/other that indicates
this
[hybernate] state and can be lost (the flag I mean) in some cases, thus
blocking the possibility to restore the state?

--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
http://www.bb2002.it
........... [ al lavoro ] ...........

In message , R.Wieser
writes:
Ammammata,

I understood that "The latter one [hybernate] is slower, but doesn't
need any [power]."

Ok. Thats good.

I added [power] that was inplied, ok, but the links I posted say that even
if you hybernate the system there is a minimum power consumption.

Ah, but than you're not talking about hybernate or standby anymore.

But yes, if you or anyone has configured their computer to keep some things
active (like WOL/WOKM (lan, keyboard/mouse) ) than the *system in its whole*
ofcourse still needs power.

Even if you haven't, it still runs the clock, and (in a laptop) keeps
the battery topped up.
[]
Note also, below in the same [wikipedia] page: Both shut down and
hibernated systems may consume standby power unless they are unplugged.
/quotingmyself2

summary:
in one case (no power consumptio) or the other (minimum consumption), who
cares, since the hybernate data has been written on disk?
or there is a flag somewhere in the bios/ram/disk/other that indicates
this
[hybernate] state and can be lost (the flag I mean) in some cases, thus
blocking the possibility to restore the state?
[]
Yes, there is a flag somewhere; I think it is stored on disc, so the
system finds it next time it powers up - if it isn't set, the system
boots normally.

Yes, in theory the flag can be lost, but by a similar token some vital
part of the OS could also be lost. I think for practical purposes it's
pretty safe.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Find out what works. Then do it. That's my system. I'm always surprised it
isn't more popular. - Scott Adams, 2015

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , R.Wieser
writes:
Ammammata,

I understood that "The latter one [hybernate] is slower, but doesn't
need any [power]."

Ok. Thats good.

I added [power] that was inplied, ok, but the links I posted say that
even
if you hybernate the system there is a minimum power consumption.

Ah, but than you're not talking about hybernate or standby anymore.

But yes, if you or anyone has configured their computer to keep some
things
active (like WOL/WOKM (lan, keyboard/mouse) ) than the *system in its
whole*
ofcourse still needs power.

Even if you haven't, it still runs the clock, and (in a laptop) keeps
the battery topped up.
[]
Note also, below in the same [wikipedia] page: Both shut down and
hibernated systems may consume standby power unless they are unplugged.
/quotingmyself2

summary:
in one case (no power consumptio) or the other (minimum consumption),
who
cares, since the hybernate data has been written on disk?
or there is a flag somewhere in the bios/ram/disk/other that indicates
this
[hybernate] state and can be lost (the flag I mean) in some cases, thus
blocking the possibility to restore the state?
[]
Yes, there is a flag somewhere; I think it is stored on disc, so the
system finds it next time it powers up - if it isn't set, the system
boots normally.

Yes, in theory the flag can be lost, but by a similar token some vital
part of the OS could also be lost. I think for practical purposes it's
pretty safe.

As far as I know, there are two indicators.

1) The Southbridge keeps some state information.
If the system loses +5VSB, it's possible a hibernate
bit will be lost. This is how you can "escape the
clutches of a greedy hibernator" like Windows 10 and
its Fast Start option.

If the Southbridge hibernate bit is set, the BIOS uses
that to prevent the user from using the popup-boot menu.
My system here, you can hammer the keyboard all you want,
and the previous OS is going to start up. Of course, you
could also unplug the drive to knock some sense into it.

2) If +5VSB is lost for any reason, then the BIOS should follow
the normal boot sequence logic. Whatever method you used to
select an OS previously, will come into play. If the C: drive
with that hiberfile on it is selected, during the boot sequence
of that OS, a check is done by reading the header of the hiberfile.
On a normal boot, the hiberfile header is overwritten (to invalidate it).
The body of the hiberfile, need never be fully over-written.
So even if your system has a 48GB hiberfile, it's possible the
latter parts of the file have never been written by anything.
In terms of what is written out, the system is more efficient
than to just mechanically write out the whole thing. The computer
knows the active parts, and it also has a compression method
(of some sort). The hiberfile space needed might be small,
like 1GB or less. The space is allocated, but it doesn't really
need to be moved or anything, as each application of the
hiberfile, writes it in place (like it was a scratchpad area).

In cases "where the user has escaped", at least Linux will
not allow a hibernated Windows OS partition to be mounted.
So while escape may seem clever at first (like, for experiments
where you want to capture the state), additional barriers may
exist to spoil your fun. At least I've seen the Linux response
first hand, and at the time, that probably wasn't intentional.
It's not a good idea to "escape", since the session information
captured in the hiberfile, may include information about opened
files that haven't been committed or something. If you start
working on the partition, behind the back of the hiberfile,
the file system state will no longer match the state just
before hibernation started.

HTH,
Paul