Win 10 Backup Boot Disc/Drive

What's the best way to make a backup boot disc or drive for my Win 10
Dell Latitude that has a DVD drive-- DVD or USB flash drive?

If USB, what size is needed? The MS support site did not specify.

On Thu, 31 May 2018 11:36:20 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

What's the best way to make a backup boot disc or drive for my Win 10
Dell Latitude that has a DVD drive-- DVD or USB flash drive?

If USB, what size is needed? The MS support site did not specify.

Dell has an app which you can download that will make a recovery disc
specifcially for your machine. You'll need the quick code on the
machine. It's a little utility. It will make recovery media on a USB
drive. I guess that depends on the age. You can usually get a recovery
disc from Dell as well. Put that away somewhere just in case you ever
need it.

--
Peter Kozlov

On Thu, 31 May 2018 10:24:55 -0600, ken1943
wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2018 11:36:20 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

What's the best way to make a backup boot disc or drive for my Win 10
Dell Latitude that has a DVD drive-- DVD or USB flash drive?

If USB, what size is needed? The MS support site did not specify.

Get Macrium Reflect Free and an usb hdd and make image of drive
You can get a case ( make sure it uses a power supply) & hdd for less
money than a ready built version. Doing it that way for many years,
never a problem.

Great app. But Dell does make tools specefically for recovery. I'd use
Macrium for a full backup and make sure to add restore points to
Windows and make a Windows reovery disc in case Windows fails to boot.
Use the built in recovery if possible. If the whole system is lost for
some reason, break out Macrium and restore it.

--
Peter Kozlov

On Thu, 31 May 2018 10:24:55 -0600, ken1943 wrote:

Get Macrium Reflect Free and an usb hdd and make image of drive
You can get a case ( make sure it uses a power supply) & hdd for less
money than a ready built version. Doing it that way for many years,
never a problem.

+1

--
s|b

Wade Garrett wrote:
What's the best way to make a backup boot disc or drive for my Win 10
Dell Latitude that has a DVD drive-- DVD or USB flash drive?

If USB, what size is needed? The MS support site did not specify.

We are awash in methods, and it's up to you to
recognize that some of the methods are a lot
more work than others.

*******

Upon receipt of your Dell Latitude, it should have been
pestering you to back up the "factory image" present on
the storage device inside the machine. That can take
three or four DVDs, one DVD of which, contains driver packages
if you ever need to use Microsoft media to re-install the OS.

*******

Some of the functions offered by your OS, are in the legacy
"Control Panels" interface.

To find "control" panels in Windows 10, type "control" in
Start : Run or in Cortana. Once the control panels show up,
use "Pin to Taskbar" in the Taskbar, so you won't lose the
reference to the Control Panels. That will give you a
blue icon you can click, when you want some Control Panels.
Control Panels was removed from the main menu a while back.

In the "Windows 7 Backup" control panel, you can make
an emergency boot CD (350MB). This is sufficient to
present a Command Prompt window (if you need to run CHKDSK
on something corrupted). But, it doesn't contain reinstallation
files. The disc is also sufficient to restore a set of
"Windows 7 Backup" VHDX files, and put the hard drive back exactly
as it was. Windows 7 Backup also has a file-by-file option
for things like your home directory Downloads folder.

There is also a Recovery tool, which images the current
OS and stores it on a USB key. And this is more or
less the same as the Dell Factory image. Now, if you
allowed Microsoft to upgrade the Win10 version to
17034 (1803), the current version, you could use the
Recovery tool to make a fresh USB key. The one I made,
didn't seem to have a Program Files folder, which means
that maybe it isn't keeping the Program Files. The one
I made, was around 4GB in size, although they seem to
recommend larger storage devices for the job. The image
on the USB stick (recovery.wim) uses the same high
compression representation, as a 4.5GB Windows 10
downloadable DVD image.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/...recovery-drive

That *will* put an OS back on your computer, but only
time will tell what utility that has. Is it practical ?
Dunno.

*******

If you have good separation between your "bulk storage"
and the OS partition, you might have something like this.

C: 20GB Programs and System, Home directory.

D: 1000GB Movie Collection (moved from Downloads to this
partition as soon as possible)

If you do it that way, then a Macrium Reflect Free backup
(or one of around 20 similar programs available out there),
offers a simple way to put virtually everything back.
(And this really is free! No adware.)

https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree

Before restoring a computer using such a backup image,
you do want to keep the current 20GB C: , because some
programs keep email files or browser bookmarks on C: and
you're going to need to move the current ones of those,
back onto the "recovered" version of the OS you put
back on C: .

Macrium makes available, it's own WinPE emergency boot
CD. You boot with that, to start a restore of a 20GB .mrimg
on top of your C: on the hard drive. If the OS is ruined,
you *need* that CD so you have some way to put the files
back. Virtually all the backup tools (with the exception
of some silly ones like DriveImageXML) will have some sort
of emergency boot disc for the job.

So the message here is:

1) Don't lose the current ("borked") content on C: .
You'll need that, to recover your email folder or database.
By booting the Macrium CD, you can actually back up the
current broken C: , onto an external USB drive.

2) Keeping your C: contents small, making it easy to back up.

3) Yes, you need to back up your "Movies" 1000GB collection
some day too, to protect against hardware failures. But
that's an overnight run, and not something you would do
quite as regularly. Alternately, if you pay money for
backup software, the "Incremental" backup option will
significantly save time and space backing up your "Movies"
(bulk storage).

4) Make sure you have the "emergency boot" CD the
backup software offers to make. As that is essential
to restoring the 20GB C: partition in the event it is
ruined.

5) After the full backup you made is restored over top of
C: , most of the backup programs have the ability to
"mount" their backup image (the item you prepared in (1)),
and you'll need to go through the contents of that, to
bring things like your Downloads folder up to date.
If a backup image is three months old, obviously the
Home directory Downloads folder is also three months old.
By sorting by date, you can see the most recent file there,
then copy over missing stuff from what you prepared in
(1). The (1) step above, doesn't have to be Macrium,
it could also be robocopy or some other file by file
procedure. Just don't *lose* the current versions of
stuff, by being clumsy with your restore procedure.
Don't be in a rush. And don't be in a rush to throw
away (1), because you'll always forget to transfer
something over.

That's a lot better than some half-baked procedure
where you use the Recovery USB stick, you visit
Windows Update and download another 500MB of stuff,
you reinstall all your programs one by one, you
scavenge all your personal files (copy over the entire
previous Downloads folder) and so on... Nobody wants
to do that. Sure, there are still some deltas to do,
but not quite as many if you use a real backup tool
to image the "small C: " setup you designed. Keeping
the size of C: smaller, is to encourage more frequent
backups. Backing up the 1000GB Movie folder is
going to take half the day, which is why people might
only want to do that every three months.

If your C: drive has all your movies, it turns backups
into a nightmare. Separate your bulk storage
from the OS crap.

Windows Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc) has a Shrink
function, which allows C: to shrink. This can leave
more room for a separate D: Movie partition or whatever.
The Shrink function cannot shrink below the location
of some critical NTFS metadata, which is why it
stops at about half-way on C: . Whether they've fixed
this, who has time to retest all this crap every
six months ? I would end up with a test plan the
size of Texas, if I hoped to stay on top of the
shortcomings of the built-in functions :-) In any
case, you can start with the Shrink function there,
to make a bit of elbow room.

And even if the C: partition is 500GB total size,
but contains 20GB of files, the backup will be 20GB
in size. The backup is *not* done by recording every
sector. Only the clusters in the file system that
contain files need to be backed up. It does not
hurt you to have a C: which is 500GB in size - it's
the size of the files in usage there, that determines
the duration of the backup operation. This is
referred to in the backup programs, as "Smart copying",
as the backup program can use the $MFT to figure
out exactly which clusters contain content, and it
ignores the other 480GB of storage. You can still
have a relatively fast backup, if you have 20GB
of OS files stored on a (mostly empty) 500GB C:
partition. Even if Shrink doesn't do an exceptionally
good job, you will still have made room for a Movies
partition D: or whatever, where you can move off
your "collections" so they don't interfere with
the ability to make fast OS backups.

HTH,
Paul

On 5/31/18 3:46 PM, Paul wrote:
Wade Garrett wrote:
What's the best way to make a backup boot disc or drive for my Win 10
Dell Latitude that has a DVD drive-- DVD or USB flash drive?

If USB, what size is needed? The MS support site did not specify.

We are awash in methods, and it's up to you to
recognize that some of the methods are a lot
more work than others.

*******

Upon receipt of your Dell Latitude, it should have been
pestering you to back up the "factory image" present on
the storage device inside the machine. That can take
three or four DVDs, one DVD of which, contains driver packages
if you ever need to use Microsoft media to re-install the OS.

*******

Some of the functions offered by your OS, are in the legacy
"Control Panels" interface.

To find "control" panels in Windows 10, type "control" in
Start : Run or in Cortana. Once the control panels show up,
use "Pin to Taskbar" in the Taskbar, so you won't lose the
reference to the Control Panels. That will give you a
blue icon you can click, when you want some Control Panels.
Control Panels was removed from the main menu a while back.

In the "Windows 7 Backup" control panel, you can make
an emergency boot CD (350MB). This is sufficient to
present a Command Prompt window (if you need to run CHKDSK
on something corrupted). But, it doesn't contain reinstallation
files. The disc is also sufficient to restore a set of
"Windows 7 Backup" VHDX files, and put the hard drive back exactly
as it was. Windows 7 Backup also has a file-by-file option
for things like your home directory Downloads folder.

There is also a Recovery tool, which images the current
OS and stores it on a USB key. And this is more or
less the same as the Dell Factory image. Now, if you
allowed Microsoft to upgrade the Win10 version to
17034 (1803), the current version, you could use the
Recovery tool to make a fresh USB key. The one I made,
didn't seem to have a Program Files folder, which means
that maybe it isn't keeping the Program Files. The one
I made, was around 4GB in size, although they seem to
recommend larger storage devices for the job. The image
on the USB stick (recovery.wim) uses the same high
compression representation, as a 4.5GB Windows 10
downloadable DVD image.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/...recovery-drive


That *will* put an OS back on your computer, but only
time will tell what utility that has. Is it practical ?
Dunno.

*******

If you have good separation between your "bulk storage"
and the OS partition, you might have something like this.

Â*Â*Â* C:Â* 20GBÂ*Â* Programs and System, Home directory.

Â*Â*Â* D: 1000GBÂ* Movie Collection (moved from Downloads to this
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* partition as soon as possible)

If you do it that way, then a Macrium Reflect Free backup
(or one of around 20 similar programs available out there),
offers a simple way to put virtually everything back.
(And this really is free! No adware.)

https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree

Before restoring a computer using such a backup image,
you do want to keep the current 20GB C: , because some
programs keep email files or browser bookmarks on C: and
you're going to need to move the current ones of those,
back onto the "recovered" version of the OS you put
back on C: .

Macrium makes available, it's own WinPE emergency boot
CD. You boot with that, to start a restore of a 20GB .mrimg
on top of your C: on the hard drive. If the OS is ruined,
you *need* that CD so you have some way to put the files
back. Virtually all the backup tools (with the exception
of some silly ones like DriveImageXML) will have some sort
of emergency boot disc for the job.

So the message here is:

1) Don't lose the current ("borked") content on C: .
Â*Â* You'll need that, to recover your email folder or database.
Â*Â* By booting the Macrium CD, you can actually back up the
Â*Â* current broken C: , onto an external USB drive.

2) Keeping your C: contents small, making it easy to back up.

3) Yes, you need to back up your "Movies" 1000GB collection
Â*Â* some day too, to protect against hardware failures. But
Â*Â* that's an overnight run, and not something you would do
Â*Â* quite as regularly. Alternately, if you pay money for
Â*Â* backup software, the "Incremental" backup option will
Â*Â* significantly save time and space backing up your "Movies"
Â*Â* (bulk storage).

4) Make sure you have the "emergency boot" CD the
Â*Â* backup software offers to make. As that is essential
Â*Â* to restoring the 20GB C: partition in the event it is
Â*Â* ruined.

5) After the full backup you made is restored over top of
Â*Â* C: , most of the backup programs have the ability to
Â*Â* "mount" their backup image (the item you prepared in (1)),
Â*Â* and you'll need to go through the contents of that, to
Â*Â* bring things like your Downloads folder up to date.
Â*Â* If a backup image is three months old, obviously the
Â*Â* Home directory Downloads folder is also three months old.
Â*Â* By sorting by date, you can see the most recent file there,
Â*Â* then copy over missing stuff from what you prepared in
Â*Â* (1). The (1) step above, doesn't have to be Macrium,
Â*Â* it could also be robocopy or some other file by file
Â*Â* procedure. Just don't *lose* the current versions of
Â*Â* stuff, by being clumsy with your restore procedure.
Â*Â* Don't be in a rush. And don't be in a rush to throw
Â*Â* away (1), because you'll always forget to transfer
Â*Â* something over.

That's a lot better than some half-baked procedure
where you use the Recovery USB stick, you visit
Windows Update and download another 500MB of stuff,
you reinstall all your programs one by one, you
scavenge all your personal files (copy over the entire
previous Downloads folder) and so on... Nobody wants
to do that. Sure, there are still some deltas to do,
but not quite as many if you use a real backup tool
to image the "small C: " setup you designed. Keeping
the size of C: smaller, is to encourage more frequent
backups. Backing up the 1000GB Movie folder is
going to take half the day, which is why people might
only want to do that every three months.

If your C: drive has all your movies, it turns backups
into a nightmare. Separate your bulk storage
from the OS crap.

Windows Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc) has a Shrink
function, which allows C: to shrink. This can leave
more room for a separate D: Movie partition or whatever.
The Shrink function cannot shrink below the location
of some critical NTFS metadata, which is why it
stops at about half-way on C: . Whether they've fixed
this, who has time to retest all this crap every
six months ? I would end up with a test plan the
size of Texas, if I hoped to stay on top of the
shortcomings of the built-in functions :-) In any
case, you can start with the Shrink function there,
to make a bit of elbow room.

And even if the C: partition is 500GB total size,
but contains 20GB of files, the backup will be 20GB
in size. The backup is *not* done by recording every
sector. Only the clusters in the file system that
contain files need to be backed up. It does not
hurt you to have a C: which is 500GB in size - it's
the size of the files in usage there, that determines
the duration of the backup operation. This is
referred to in the backup programs, as "Smart copying",
as the backup program can use the $MFT to figure
out exactly which clusters contain content, and it
ignores the other 480GB of storage. You can still
have a relatively fast backup, if you have 20GB
of OS files stored on a (mostly empty) 500GB C:
partition. Even if Shrink doesn't do an exceptionally
good job, you will still have made room for a Movies
partition D: or whatever, where you can move off
your "collections" so they don't interfere with
the ability to make fast OS backups.

HTH,
Â*Â*Â* Paul

Thanks,

I created a recovery drive on a USB flash drive via the control panel.
It took the Dell an hour or two to "prepare" the info for writing to the
recovery drive which was recommended to be of at least 8 GB capacity.

I tried a series of freshly formatted known to be good different 8 GB
thumb drives but it wouldn't copy until I tried a 16 GB drive. Then it
took several hours to write.

--
The fastest way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

Wade Garrett wrote:


Thanks,

I created a recovery drive on a USB flash drive via the control panel.
It took the Dell an hour or two to "prepare" the info for writing to the
recovery drive which was recommended to be of at least 8 GB capacity.

I tried a series of freshly formatted known to be good different 8 GB
thumb drives but it wouldn't copy until I tried a 16 GB drive. Then it
took several hours to write.

My test was a freshly installed OS (Pro), then
run the Recovery thing. I did this in a VM,
and VirtualBox allows you to add a "USB controller"
to the storage section, and from there, add a container
for content.

The output of my run was around 4GB or so (consistent with
what the installer DVD would be in size).

Using 7ZIP, you should be able to look inside the
"recovery.WIM" or similar, and see whether there is a
Program Files folder or not. Which would indicate whether your
installed programs got backed up. Your personal data
probably shouldn't be in there - I think I might
have seen a "Default" user, but no sign of my
home directory.

https://www.7-zip.org/

Paul

Wade Garrett" wrote in message news
What's the best way to make a backup boot disc or drive for my Win 10 Dell
Latitude that has a DVD drive-- DVD or USB flash drive?

If USB, what size is needed? The MS support site did not specify.

Others have covered the Recovery and Imaging.
- If you have not created the Dell recovery media or imaged your system
using provided or available tools do so.

To answer your question.
Use the Microsoft(MSFT) provided Media Creation Tool(MCT)to create media
which can be booted for repair and install of Windows 10.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10

The MCT can create both USB or DVD media - consider doing both and storing
both in a safe place.

The MSFT MCT web site does specify the size needed to create media.
"A blank USB flash drive with at least 8GB of space or blank DVD (and DVD
burner) if you want to create media. We recommend using a blank USB or blank
DVD, because any content on it will be deleted."



--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ
ms mvp windows 2007-2016, insider mvp 2016-2018