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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 30th 15, 07:28 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Char Jackson
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Posts: 10,449
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers


Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers
http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/29/w...and-bootlegge/


Microsoft mistakenly pushed Windows 10 upgrades to existing Windows 7/8
users through the Update process earlier this year, but next year it will do
it on purpose.
....
"Soon" the Windows 10 Upgrade will be added to Windows 7/8's system update
feature as an option, and at some point next year it will change from
optional to recommended. What that means for many people is that because of
their Windows Update settings, their machine will automatically update to
Windows 10 if it hasn't already. You can still downgrade afterwards if it's
not to your liking, but expect the push to get more aggressive going
forward.


--

Char Jackson
Ads
  #2  
Old October 30th 15, 07:39 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros andbootleggers

Char Jackson wrote:

Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers
http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/29/w...and-bootlegge/


Microsoft mistakenly pushed Windows 10 upgrades to existing Windows 7/8
users through the Update process earlier this year, but next year it will do
it on purpose.
...
"Soon" the Windows 10 Upgrade will be added to Windows 7/8's system update
feature as an option, and at some point next year it will change from
optional to recommended. What that means for many people is that because of
their Windows Update settings, their machine will automatically update to
Windows 10 if it hasn't already. You can still downgrade afterwards if it's
not to your liking, but expect the push to get more aggressive going
forward.



Right then, who'll join me at Thermopylae?
I'm prepared to fight until July 27th 2016. I love Win7 and I've updated
all my machines apart from this my main workhorse. But I can go for a
free Win10 here as I will.
In the meantime I'm putting up with the broken WinUpdate messages, the
negligent drivers, the massed ranks and numbers of MS' corporate forces,
the sarky comments about Ludditeism, et al.

Vivat Win7!

Ed

  #3  
Old October 30th 15, 07:41 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros andbootleggers

Ed Cryer wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:

Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers
http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/29/w...and-bootlegge/



Microsoft mistakenly pushed Windows 10 upgrades to existing Windows 7/8
users through the Update process earlier this year, but next year it
will do
it on purpose.
...
"Soon" the Windows 10 Upgrade will be added to Windows 7/8's system
update
feature as an option, and at some point next year it will change from
optional to recommended. What that means for many people is that
because of
their Windows Update settings, their machine will automatically update to
Windows 10 if it hasn't already. You can still downgrade afterwards if
it's
not to your liking, but expect the push to get more aggressive going
forward.



Right then, who'll join me at Thermopylae?
I'm prepared to fight until July 27th 2016. I love Win7 and I've updated
all my machines apart from this my main workhorse. But I can go for a
free Win10 here as I will.
In the meantime I'm putting up with the broken WinUpdate messages, the
negligent drivers, the massed ranks and numbers of MS' corporate forces,
the sarky comments about Ludditeism, et al.

Vivat Win7!

Ed


P.S.
Keep your powder dry, and the backup images very regular.

Ed

  #4  
Old October 30th 15, 08:29 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
(PeteCresswell)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,933
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers

Per Char Jackson:

"Soon" the Windows 10 Upgrade will be added to Windows 7/8's system update
feature as an option, and at some point next year it will change from
optional to recommended. What that means for many people is that because of
their Windows Update settings, their machine will automatically update to
Windows 10 if it hasn't already.


Judging from my own experience with Windows Update (*ALWAYS* set to do
nothing or ask before doing anything) just about everybody will have 10
inflicted upon them. I don't know how or why, but Windows Update has
eventually installed a bunch of changes on my Windows 7 machines even
though the setting was set to explicitly not to.

EdCryer has it right: make sure you have an image ready to go.
--
Pete Cresswell
  #5  
Old October 31st 15, 12:14 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
...winston‫
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,128
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros andbootleggers

Char Jackson wrote:

Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers
http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/29/w...and-bootlegge/


Microsoft mistakenly pushed Windows 10 upgrades to existing Windows 7/8
users through the Update process earlier this year, but next year it will do
it on purpose.
...
"Soon" the Windows 10 Upgrade will be added to Windows 7/8's system update
feature as an option, and at some point next year it will change from
optional to recommended. What that means for many people is that because of
their Windows Update settings, their machine will automatically update to
Windows 10 if it hasn't already. You can still downgrade afterwards if it's
not to your liking, but expect the push to get more aggressive going
forward.


That's not what MSFT said for the Win10 Recommended update route (when
deployed next year) via AU/WU.
- i.e. the user will be prompted before changing the o/s

Though when that prompt occurs - before/after/during setup.exe has not
been made clear.

Now everything that MSFT states doesn't necessary work like they write
it...thus not configuring a device to full automatic is probably a
prudent choice.



--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #6  
Old October 31st 15, 12:16 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
...winston‫
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,128
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros andbootleggers

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Char Jackson:

"Soon" the Windows 10 Upgrade will be added to Windows 7/8's system update
feature as an option, and at some point next year it will change from
optional to recommended. What that means for many people is that because of
their Windows Update settings, their machine will automatically update to
Windows 10 if it hasn't already.


Judging from my own experience with Windows Update (*ALWAYS* set to do
nothing or ask before doing anything) just about everybody will have 10
inflicted upon them. I don't know how or why, but Windows Update has
eventually installed a bunch of changes on my Windows 7 machines even
though the setting was set to explicitly not to.

EdCryer has it right: make sure you have an image ready to go.


And what setting were those ? If not set to automatic the only change
that occurs is the updates for the Windows Update engine not program or
security updates.

--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #7  
Old October 31st 15, 12:53 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
(PeteCresswell)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,933
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers

Per ...winston?:
Judging from my own experience with Windows Update (*ALWAYS* set to do
nothing or ask before doing anything) just about everybody will have 10
inflicted upon them. I don't know how or why, but Windows Update has
eventually installed a bunch of changes on my Windows 7 machines even
though the setting was set to explicitly not to.

EdCryer has it right: make sure you have an image ready to go.


And what setting were those ? If not set to automatic the only change
that occurs is the updates for the Windows Update engine not program or
security updates.


That is what I think most people would expect: not automatic == no
updates.

In fact, that is what I used to expect.

But I have been burned too many times not to believe otherwise.
--
Pete Cresswell
  #8  
Old October 31st 15, 04:35 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers

Char Jackson wrote:

Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers
http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/29/w...and-bootlegge/


Microsoft mistakenly pushed Windows 10 upgrades to existing Windows 7/8
users through the Update process earlier this year, but next year it will do
it on purpose.
...
"Soon" the Windows 10 Upgrade will be added to Windows 7/8's system update
feature as an option, and at some point next year it will change from
optional to recommended. What that means for many people is that because of
their Windows Update settings, their machine will automatically update to
Windows 10 if it hasn't already. You can still downgrade afterwards if it's
not to your liking, but expect the push to get more aggressive going
forward.


I've had to disable Windows Updates. Microsoft has been increasingly
pushing bogus updates - they have nothing to do with Windows 7 and
everything to do with facilitating migration to Windows 10, adding
telemetry (spying) for Microsoft, or trying to turn Windows 7/8 into
adware platforms to advertize Windows 10. Microsoft is desparate that
Windows 10 doesn't end up another Windows Vista flop.

I have to inspect each update to see what [little] information is
provided by Microsoft and wait a week or month to see what others start
complaining about an update.

Also, Microsoft pushes updates for software that I do not have
installed. Skype, OneDrive for Business (aka Skydrive Pro) - which is
not the same as the Onedrive client and service, Lync, and more gets
pushed as updates although those programs are not installed (other than
what the updates want to push into my Windows 7). In fact, I have to
setup a time where I can install the allowed updates one at a time
because one of them will change permissions such that I can no longer
run some programs that worked fine before. Nothing in permissions can
be changed. I checked that my logged in account is an admin-level
account (in the administrators security group) and looked wherever I
could to figure out why old programs either would not load anymore or
why they instantly crashed. So I've had to use image backups to restore
my OS partition to before applying a bunch of updates so my Windows was
usable again. Later I will have to save another full image and apply
each update one at a time to determine which one(s) **** up my Windows
setup.

Microsoft is no longer to be trusted regarding what updates they want to
push onto your computer.

Note that setting Windows Updates to "never notify" does not disable the
WU service. Windows Defender, for example, and other programs can still
use the WU service to acquire updates that are considered separate of
updates for Windows (and MS Office). You have to configure the startup
mode of the WU service to Disabled if you really want to ensure
Microsoft doesn't try to sneak in a background update (which you may
only realize happened when you shutdown and see notice about applying
updates on shutdown and then completing them on the next startup). To
ensure Microsoft doesn't get sneaky, especially if you didn't review the
updates to eliminate the bogus ones, like the "Get Win10 app" update,
you need to configure the WU client to "never update" and disable the WU
service (set its startup mode to Disabled). When you later want to
check for updates, enabled the Windows Update service and start it and
then use the WU client to check for updates -- and review ALL updates
that Microsoft wants to push at you.
  #9  
Old October 31st 15, 08:29 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
...winston‫
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,128
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros andbootleggers

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per ...winston?:
Judging from my own experience with Windows Update (*ALWAYS* set to do
nothing or ask before doing anything) just about everybody will have 10
inflicted upon them. I don't know how or why, but Windows Update has
eventually installed a bunch of changes on my Windows 7 machines even
though the setting was set to explicitly not to.

EdCryer has it right: make sure you have an image ready to go.


And what setting were those ? If not set to automatic the only change
that occurs is the updates for the Windows Update engine not program or
security updates.


That is what I think most people would expect: not automatic == no
updates.

In fact, that is what I used to expect.

But I have been burned too many times not to believe otherwise.

Yes, I also have seen and read that quite a few believe that not
automatic means no updates....but the update for the Windows Update
engine service (noted earlier) does not fall under the constraints
applied by an end-user's settings for Windows Update. The EULA for
Windows (and has for decades) stated that updates to the Windows Update
service engine will download and install automatically without
regardless of user permission or intervention and without notice.
qp
Windows Update. To enable the proper functioning of the Windows Update
service in the software (if you use it), updates or downloads to the
Windows Update service will be required from time to time and downloaded
and installed without further notice to you.
/qp?



--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #10  
Old October 31st 15, 01:56 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
(PeteCresswell)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,933
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers

Per VanguardLH:
You have to configure the startup
mode of the WU service to Disabled if you really want to ensure
Microsoft doesn't try to sneak in a background update (which you may
only realize happened when you shutdown and see notice about applying
updates on shutdown and then completing them on the next startup).


I am getting a little glimmer of a recollection (?) that even Disabling
Windows Update is not 100%. Maybe Somebody Who Knows can comment.

I have to wonder if leaving Windows Update on autopilot and having a
"Good" image on hand at all times might be the path of least resistance.

At least then, the manhours are spent on the user's schedule. i.e.
things get flaky, the user can elect to re-image if/when they want - as
opposed to being in the middle of troubleshooting a production problem,
re-booting for some reason-or-another, and getting hit with "Please wait
while Windows installs 97 updates".....

The logic being that automagic updates will apply an update here, an
update there.... and the user will hardly notice - and maintain control
of their PC at all times.

OTOH, the image that is re-imaged from will probably need about a
bazillion updates.... But, at least, after the re-image the user can
elect to reboot and take a lunch break or something...
--
Pete Cresswell
  #11  
Old October 31st 15, 05:13 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
sctvguy1
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 65
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros andbootleggers

On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 18:39:43 +0000, Ed Cryer wrote:


Right then, who'll join me at Thermopylae?
I'm prepared to fight until July 27th 2016. I love Win7 and I've updated
all my machines apart from this my main workhorse. But I can go for a
free Win10 here as I will.
In the meantime I'm putting up with the broken WinUpdate messages, the
negligent drivers, the massed ranks and numbers of MS' corporate forces,
the sarky comments about Ludditeism, et al.

Vivat Win7!

Ed


Use the XP hack and you can continue getting updates and stuff for XP
until 2019! I still run XP SP3 with the hack on an old Dell P4. No need
to update to anything. Latest Chrome, Firefox, Thunderbird, etc.
  #12  
Old October 31st 15, 05:39 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros andbootleggers

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per VanguardLH:
You have to configure the startup
mode of the WU service to Disabled if you really want to ensure
Microsoft doesn't try to sneak in a background update (which you may
only realize happened when you shutdown and see notice about applying
updates on shutdown and then completing them on the next startup).


I am getting a little glimmer of a recollection (?) that even Disabling
Windows Update is not 100%. Maybe Somebody Who Knows can comment.

I have to wonder if leaving Windows Update on autopilot and having a
"Good" image on hand at all times might be the path of least resistance.

At least then, the manhours are spent on the user's schedule. i.e.
things get flaky, the user can elect to re-image if/when they want - as
opposed to being in the middle of troubleshooting a production problem,
re-booting for some reason-or-another, and getting hit with "Please wait
while Windows installs 97 updates".....

The logic being that automagic updates will apply an update here, an
update there.... and the user will hardly notice - and maintain control
of their PC at all times.

OTOH, the image that is re-imaged from will probably need about a
bazillion updates.... But, at least, after the re-image the user can
elect to reboot and take a lunch break or something...


I've left mine on "Check and ask me". It does actually check each day on
first boot, but doesn't inform me if there are any updates.
So I simply look in there once a day; making sure, of course, that the
latest date of check is today's date (if it should turn out not to be,
well then I'll do a manual check and figure out a plan B.)

Ed

  #13  
Old October 31st 15, 08:58 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers

Ed Cryer wrote:

I've left mine on "Check and ask me". It does actually check each day on
first boot, but doesn't inform me if there are any updates.
So I simply look in there once a day; making sure, of course, that the
latest date of check is today's date (if it should turn out not to be,
well then I'll do a manual check and figure out a plan B.)


The problem with that mode is I and others have noted that updates DID
get downloaded without any prompting and they get applied during a
shutdown. You never got prompted to grant permissions for any download
and install of updates. You shutdown and scratch your head why Windows
is telling you to wait for updates to install. And later you reboot
into Windows and are told to wait until updates complete their
installation. Some updates, like the Get Win10 App, don't need your
permission to retrieve the, ahem, "update". All they need is for the WU
service to be available (or maybe it is the BITS service to do the
background download).

Setting the WU client to "notify only" or even to "never notify" does
not guarantee that Microsoft won't still update Windows or utilize their
WU and BITS services to surreptitously obtain programs aka "updates".
Too many users have noted getting updates for which they were never
prompted despite setting the WU client to ask or never check. As proof
that Microsoft doesn't need your permission to use the WU service to
obtain updates is their Defender product. It uses the WU service to
obtain its updates and you never get prompted for those despite how you
configured the WU client.

For me, there is no point to using "notify only" because that merely
means that I will be pestered with reminders to get the updates before I
have prepared for applying them (saving an image backup, allotting time
to review all the updates, and then apply them one by one to check for
artifacts in unwanted behavior). Even with the WU client configured for
"never notify", not too long later I did a shutdown and got hit with
updates installing on shutdown and then having to wait for them to
complete on the next Windows startup. So "never notify" does not work.
Microsoft can still push updates as long as something on your host runs
to utilize the WU or BITS services. Setting those services to Disabled
is the only way you can ensure of Microsoft not changing the state of
your Windows setup.

In fact, notice that the BITS service is configured for Manual startup.
That means a caller process asks for that service to to do background
downloads. Although I have the WU client set to "never notify" and the
WU service is configured as Disabled, I still find the BITS service has
started. With manual startup mode, that means something called it. I
disabled Defender (worthless and I use far superior 3rd party security
software), what else would be calling the BITS service to do background
downloads?

At first, I set the WU client to "never notify". That did not work
because I still got unprompted updates that were applied on shutdown and
completed on the next startup of Windows. So I disabled the WU service.
Yet I found something had called the BITS service to perform background
downloads. So I've disabled the BITS service, too. Eventually
Microsoft might wise up and realize users are nailing the doors and
windows closed to prevent any updates until the users decide if and when
to retrieve and apply them. So Microsoft will probably start pushing
updates that can phone home: if users accept those updates, especially
considering how Microsoft is moving to vague descriptions of them and
even merging more than one functional change within them (many now
modify several features instead of one), those users may end up with
phone-home "updates" which are actually updaters themselves.

Since Microsoft's firewall does not, by default, block outbound
connections, tis time to invest in a firewall that prompts on ALL
outbound connects so can authorize just what can connect out. But then
Microsoft could push out a kernel-mode updater "update" that could
bypass any 3rd party firewall. Long ago they added IP addresses for
some of their well-known server hosts so they could have Windows connect
to those without fear of users adding entries in the 'hosts' file in
trying to block Microsoft from getting to those servers. No DNS lookup
means no DNS blocking (and what the 'hosts' file eventually became used
for). Microsoft knows how to circumvent any blockage provided there is
an incentive to do so. Making sure Windows 10 doesn't flop as did
Windows Vista is a strong incentive.
  #14  
Old October 31st 15, 09:29 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
(PeteCresswell)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,933
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers

Per VanguardLH:
So I've disabled the BITS service, too.


BITS = Background Intelligent Transfer Service, right?
--
Pete Cresswell
  #15  
Old October 31st 15, 09:49 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers

PeteCresswell wrote:

Per VanguardLH:

So I've disabled the BITS service, too.


BITS = Background Intelligent Transfer Service, right?


Yep.
 




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