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  #16  
Old August 29th 17, 05:50 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
Joe Scotch
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Posts: 108
Default Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)

/nIn , Wolf K
wrote:

Oh, but we do pronounce words the way they're spelled. Trouble is,
English uses a mish-mash of spelling rules.


You bring up a point which is that all words are pronounced correctly,
where the pronunciation rules are what changes.

But I find that statement hard to comprehend given the pronunciation of
born/borne, read/read, lead/led, mischivous/mischevious, etc.

The result: English maps all
speech sounds except one onto two or more spellings, and the vast
majority of spellings map onto two or more speech sounds.


Wow. In good faith, this sounds like you know what you're talking about, so
I believe you, but I really did not comprehend that sentence, even after
reading it a few times.

Perhaps an anecdotal example is required for me to understand.
Do others understand that seemingly all-inclusive single-sentence summary?

In addition,
the sound mapped by any one spelling may depend on the meaning of the
word, or the spelling of the following sound, etc. Plus different
spellings in for the same word in different varieties of English, and
borrowed words are hardly ever changed to English spelling.


I'm not sure I comprehended all that you said, but I did gather that words
like Nevada & Arkansas & New Orleans are each pronounced differently
depending mostly on whether you live there or you don't.

I'm glad your method teaching yourself better spelling is working out
for you.


Thanks for the encouragement. It gets me angry that I misspell the same
words time and again.

I think it's because the right-click squiggle-correction method is too
easy.

However, any method I add to that has to, by design, be almost as easy
because otherwise, I'll just right-click squiggle correct and be done with
it.
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  #17  
Old August 29th 17, 06:31 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
NY
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Posts: 586
Default Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)

"Joe Scotch" wrote in message
news
But I find that statement hard to comprehend given the pronunciation of
born/borne, read/read, lead/led, mischivous/mischevious, etc.


And there regional and age-of-speaker differences in the way the some words
are pronounced:

- tomato ("tomayto" / "tomarto") is an obvious US/UK difference

- harassed: most UK people (excluding Frank Spencer in the sitcom "Some
Mothers Do Have 'Em") put the stress on the first syllable, whereas most US
people (and Frank Spencer!) put the stress on the second syllable

- mischievous is an age-related thing: older people tend to stress the first
syllable and pronounce the second one with a short i, whereas younger people
tend to stress the second syllable and (as for the word "mischief")
pronounce it "ee"; likewise for controversy: "conTROVersy" or "contraVERsy"
(to match "contraversial"); "forehead" - "for-head" or "FORRid" (the latter
is almost obsolete) and "waistcoat" ("wayst-coat" or "WESSkit" (again, the
latter has almost died out


The only evidence of the obsolete "forehead" pronunciation is the rhyming in
Longfellow's

There was a little girl,
Who had a little curl,
Right in the middle of her forehead.
When she was good,
She was very good indeed,
But when she was bad she was horrid.


Probably a lot of it is the modern trend for pronouncing more words and
placenames are spelled (or altering the spelling to match an established
pronunciation). There is a village in Kent called Trottiscliffe which has
always been perversely pronounced "Trose-ly". Now the village and the nearby
country park are alternatively spelled Trosley to match the pronunciation.

Likewise the city of Bristol used to be spelled Bristowe many centuries ago,
but the Bristol dialect tends to add an L sound to the end of words which
end in a vowel sound, so "window" becomes "windowl", "area" becomes "areal"
and "banana" becomes "bananal". Eventually the spelling of the city name was
modified to reflect how the locals pronounced it!

  #18  
Old August 29th 17, 07:00 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
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Posts: 42
Default Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)

On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 18:31:01 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Joe Scotch" wrote in message
news
But I find that statement hard to comprehend given the pronunciation of
born/borne, read/read, lead/led, mischivous/mischevious, etc.


And there regional and age-of-speaker differences in the way the some words
are pronounced:

- tomato ("tomayto" / "tomarto") is an obvious US/UK difference

- harassed: most UK people (excluding Frank Spencer in the sitcom "Some
Mothers Do Have 'Em") put the stress on the first syllable, whereas most US
people (and Frank Spencer!) put the stress on the second syllable

- mischievous is an age-related thing: older people tend to stress the first
syllable and pronounce the second one with a short i, whereas younger people
tend to stress the second syllable and (as for the word "mischief")
pronounce it "ee";


It's not just the "ee" sound. The "vous" sometimes becomes "vious"
("veeus").

likewise for controversy: "conTROVersy" or "contraVERsy"
(to match "contraversial"); "forehead" - "for-head" or "FORRid" (the latter
is almost obsolete) and "waistcoat" ("wayst-coat" or "WESSkit" (again, the
latter has almost died out


The only evidence of the obsolete "forehead" pronunciation is the rhyming in
Longfellow's

There was a little girl,
Who had a little curl,
Right in the middle of her forehead.
When she was good,
She was very good indeed,
But when she was bad she was horrid.


Probably a lot of it is the modern trend for pronouncing more words and
placenames are spelled (or altering the spelling to match an established
pronunciation). There is a village in Kent called Trottiscliffe which has
always been perversely pronounced "Trose-ly". Now the village and the nearby
country park are alternatively spelled Trosley to match the pronunciation.

Likewise the city of Bristol used to be spelled Bristowe many centuries ago,
but the Bristol dialect tends to add an L sound to the end of words which
end in a vowel sound, so "window" becomes "windowl", "area" becomes "areal"
and "banana" becomes "bananal". Eventually the spelling of the city name was
modified to reflect how the locals pronounced it!


--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
  #19  
Old August 29th 17, 08:05 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,221
Default Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)

On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 18:31:01 +0100, "NY" wrote:

Harassed: most UK people (excluding Frank Spencer in the sitcom "Some
Mothers Do Have 'Em") put the stress on the first syllable, whereas most US
people (and Frank Spencer!) put the stress on the second syllable



I'm not from the UK and I don't know who Frank Spencer is, but I
pronounce it the UK way: stress on the first syllable--HARR-issed.

I think most Americans say har-ASSED because they see the letters
a-s-s (the word you spell ARSE in the UK), and they automatically
pronounce those letters ASS.



"forehead" - "for-head" or "FORRid" (the latter
is almost obsolete)



Obsolete or not, I say FORR-id. By the way, I might be wrong but I
think more people (at least in the US) say FAR-head rather than
FOR-head.


and "waistcoat" ("wayst-coat" or "WESSkit" (again, the
latter has almost died out



Regardless of pronunciation, the word itself has almost died out (at
least in the US). I can't remember the last time I used or heard it,
but if I had to say it, I would say WESS-kit. Most Americans say VEST.



Likewise the city of Bristol used to be spelled Bristowe many centuries ago,
but the Bristol dialect tends to add an L sound to the end of words which
end in a vowel sound, so "window" becomes "windowl", "area" becomes "areal"
and "banana" becomes "bananal". Eventually the spelling of the city name was
modified to reflect how the locals pronounced it!



Thanks very much! That's new to me, but I always like to know little
things like that.
  #20  
Old August 29th 17, 09:27 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,221
Default Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)

On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 15:26:57 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:


An additional method of training eye-ear-hand to ype correct spelling is



An interesting juxtaposition of "ype" and "correct spelling." vbg


to type and/or write out the correct spelling while you say the word.
Used to be done in primary school way back when, but got shoved aside
because it wasn't creative and exciting enough. I was on a couple
curriculum committees, so I know.

  #21  
Old August 29th 17, 09:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
NY
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Posts: 586
Default Speak a common spelling error list (hints on demand)

"Ken Blake" wrote in message
...
"forehead" - "for-head" or "FORRid" (the latter
is almost obsolete)


Obsolete or not, I say FORR-id. By the way, I might be wrong but I
think more people (at least in the US) say FAR-head rather than
FOR-head.


True - there is a difference with vowels. Likewise "caught" tends more
towards "cot" in some US accents.

I've got a dictionary which gives the pronunciations of words, with symbols
to represent certain sounds and giving specimen words (eg "o as in lose").
But this assumes that everyone pronounces sounds the same - and your
"FORhead / FARhead" example shows that this isn't always the case. It uses
three different symbols to distinguish between the vowels in "fur", "fir"
and "fer" (as in "fertile"), but I tend to make very little distinction
between those, whereas other people evidently do, given that the dictionary
make the distinction.


and "waistcoat" ("wayst-coat" or "WESSkit" (again, the
latter has almost died out


Regardless of pronunciation, the word itself has almost died out (at
least in the US). I can't remember the last time I used or heard it,
but if I had to say it, I would say WESS-kit. Most Americans say VEST.


I'm young enough (54) that I pronounce both words as spelled: FORhead and
WAISTcoat, probably because my parents do as well and it's what I have heard
all my life.

I'm also reminded of the obsolete spelling of the past-participle of the
verb "show", as typified by the notice "All tickets must be shewn" on old
buses. My dad remembers thinking that this was an absurd spelling of
"shown", even when he was growing up in the 1940s.

Likewise the city of Bristol used to be spelled Bristowe many centuries
ago,
but the Bristol dialect tends to add an L sound to the end of words which
end in a vowel sound, so "window" becomes "windowl", "area" becomes
"areal"
and "banana" becomes "bananal". Eventually the spelling of the city name
was
modified to reflect how the locals pronounced it!



Thanks very much! That's new to me, but I always like to know little
things like that.


I was at university in Bristol and the caretaker (janitor) of my hall of
residence had a very strong, almost impenetrable "Brissle" (*) accent. That
was where I first heard the Bristol L. I'd hoped to post a recording made by
the local radio station of interviews with Bristol residents, illustrating
the sound. But the page I was going to link to seems to have been deleted.
Grrr.

There are other regional peculiarities: the working-class London and
"Estuary English" (ie either side of the Thames estuary downstream of
London) does the opposite thing by suppressing the L sound, so milk is
pronounced "miwk", with a W sound replacing the L sound. Think of Bob
Hoskins in films such as The Long Good Friday, Mona Lisa and Made in
Dagenham.

I've just remembered another UK/US difference: the stress on the word
"laboratory". UK puts it on the second and fourth "laBORaTRY", whereas most
American speakers put the stress on the first syllable "LABraTRY" or
"LABraTORy". When I was very young and heard references to the word in US
films etc on TV, I wondered why American scientists did all their work in
the toilet (because it sounds suspiciously like "lavatory" - aka bathroom,
restroom, john) :-)


(*) A nickname that arose from a humorous book called "Krek Waiters Peak
Brissle" which is filled with absurd phonetic renditions of common phrases,
poking fun at the accent. The title translates as "Correct Way To Speak
Bristol" :-)

  #22  
Old August 29th 17, 10:03 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,221
Default Speak a common spelling error list (hints on demand)

On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 21:38:33 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Ken Blake" wrote in message
.. .
"forehead" - "for-head" or "FORRid" (the latter
is almost obsolete)


Obsolete or not, I say FORR-id. By the way, I might be wrong but I
think more people (at least in the US) say FAR-head rather than
FOR-head.


True - there is a difference with vowels. Likewise "caught" tends more
towards "cot" in some US accents.

I've got a dictionary which gives the pronunciations of words, with symbols
to represent certain sounds and giving specimen words (eg "o as in lose").
But this assumes that everyone pronounces sounds the same - and your
"FORhead / FARhead" example shows that this isn't always the case. It uses
three different symbols to distinguish between the vowels in "fur", "fir"
and "fer" (as in "fertile"), but I tend to make very little distinction
between those, whereas other people evidently do, given that the dictionary
make the distinction.



Like those people who pronounce "Mary," "marry," and "merry" the same
way. To me they are all different.


and "waistcoat" ("wayst-coat" or "WESSkit" (again, the
latter has almost died out


Regardless of pronunciation, the word itself has almost died out (at
least in the US). I can't remember the last time I used or heard it,
but if I had to say it, I would say WESS-kit. Most Americans say VEST.


I'm young enough (54) that I pronounce both words as spelled: FORhead and
WAISTcoat, probably because my parents do as well and it's what I have heard
all my life.


I'm also reminded of the obsolete spelling of the past-participle of the
verb "show", as typified by the notice "All tickets must be shewn" on old
buses. My dad remembers thinking that this was an absurd spelling of
"shown", even when he was growing up in the 1940s.



I think that's just a British spelling. It's never used in the US.


Likewise the city of Bristol used to be spelled Bristowe many centuries
ago,
but the Bristol dialect tends to add an L sound to the end of words which
end in a vowel sound, so "window" becomes "windowl", "area" becomes
"areal"
and "banana" becomes "bananal". Eventually the spelling of the city name
was
modified to reflect how the locals pronounced it!



Thanks very much! That's new to me, but I always like to know little
things like that.


I was at university in Bristol and the caretaker (janitor) of my hall of
residence had a very strong, almost impenetrable "Brissle" (*) accent. That
was where I first heard the Bristol L. I'd hoped to post a recording made by
the local radio station of interviews with Bristol residents, illustrating
the sound. But the page I was going to link to seems to have been deleted.
Grrr.

There are other regional peculiarities: the working-class London and
"Estuary English" (ie either side of the Thames estuary downstream of
London) does the opposite thing by suppressing the L sound, so milk is
pronounced "miwk", with a W sound replacing the L sound. Think of Bob
Hoskins in films such as The Long Good Friday, Mona Lisa and Made in
Dagenham.



I think I once saw "Mona Lisa," But it was so long ago that I can't
remember how he spoke.


I've just remembered another UK/US difference: the stress on the word
"laboratory". UK puts it on the second and fourth "laBORaTRY", whereas most
American speakers put the stress on the first syllable "LABraTRY"



I don't think I've ever heard it pronounced like that


or
"LABraTORy".



Yes. That's the standard American pronunciation.


When I was very young and heard references to the word in US
films etc on TV, I wondered why American scientists did all their work in
the toilet (because it sounds suspiciously like "lavatory" - aka bathroom,
restroom, john) :-)



And W.C.
  #23  
Old August 29th 17, 10:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
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Posts: 1,756
Default Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)

On 08/29/2017 12:31 PM, NY wrote:

[snip]

The only evidence of the obsolete "forehead" pronunciation is the
rhyming in Longfellow's

There was a little girl,
Who had a little curl,
Right in the middle of her forehead.
When she was good,
She was very good indeed,
But when she was bad she was horrid.


I thought that old pronunciation was corruption by someone who couldn't
take the time to say it right.

Another oddity is "mustache" spelled with something like "ios" at the end.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Can God lie? Can the Bible lie? Anyway, there is a mistake somewhere.
The big mistake is in entertaining the idea of a God." [E.
Haldeman-Julius, "The Meaning Of Atheism"]
  #24  
Old August 29th 17, 10:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
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Posts: 1,756
Default Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)

On 08/29/2017 12:31 PM, NY wrote:

[snip]

- tomato ("tomayto" / "tomarto") is an obvious US/UK difference


I never heard "tomarto". It was always "tomahto".

Thinking of pronunciation, I used to know someone who always said a lot
of words as is they were two words, like:

butter butt turr
paper pay purr
picture pick tour

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Can God lie? Can the Bible lie? Anyway, there is a mistake somewhere.
The big mistake is in entertaining the idea of a God." [E.
Haldeman-Julius, "The Meaning Of Atheism"]
  #25  
Old August 29th 17, 11:34 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,221
Default Speak a common spelling error list (hints on demand)

On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 18:06:44 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2017-08-29 17:03, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 21:38:33 +0100, wrote:

[...]robably because my parents do as well and it's what I have heard
all my life.
I'm also reminded of the obsolete spelling of the past-participle of the
verb "show", as typified by the notice "All tickets must be shewn" on old
buses. My dad remembers thinking that this was an absurd spelling of
"shown", even when he was growing up in the 1940s.


I think that's just a British spelling. It's never used in the US.


It was spelt thus, actually, into the early 1900s, especially by New
England writers.



Interesting, thanks. If I had seen it spelled that way in the US, I
had forgotten.
  #26  
Old August 30th 17, 12:28 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
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Posts: 752
Default Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)

Steve Hayes on Tue, 29 Aug 2017 06:08:05 +0200
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 06:38:10 -0000 (UTC), Joe Scotch
wrote:

I keep a registry shortcut to a text file for all the words that get red
squiggled when I type, where I'd like Windows to SPEAK the list to me on
command so that I can start embedding into my brain the distinctions.
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\A pp Paths\spell.exe
Default = c:\notes\spelling_errors.txt


Is it Windows that does this squiggling?

When did it start doing that?

I've been trying to find what it is that does the squiggling because
it so often marks correct spellings as incorrect.

I first noticed it on Facebook, and thought that was responsible, but
now I think it is Firefox that is doing it, but I can't find a setting
for it, or how to find its dictionary.


I found that if I click on the word, under the list of "proper
spellings" is "add to dictionary".

I suspect that it is a Firefox thing.

If it was Windows doing it, then surely it would be checking this
message as I type, but no, my typos are unmarked.

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
  #27  
Old August 30th 17, 12:46 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
Keith Nuttle
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Posts: 1,844
Default Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)

On 8/29/2017 7:28 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Steve Hayes on Tue, 29 Aug 2017 06:08:05 +0200
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 06:38:10 -0000 (UTC), Joe Scotch
wrote:

I keep a registry shortcut to a text file for all the words that get red
squiggled when I type, where I'd like Windows to SPEAK the list to me on
command so that I can start embedding into my brain the distinctions.
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\spell.exe
Default = c:\notes\spelling_errors.txt


Is it Windows that does this squiggling?

When did it start doing that?

I've been trying to find what it is that does the squiggling because
it so often marks correct spellings as incorrect.

I first noticed it on Facebook, and thought that was responsible, but
now I think it is Firefox that is doing it, but I can't find a setting
for it, or how to find its dictionary.


I found that if I click on the word, under the list of "proper
spellings" is "add to dictionary".

I suspect that it is a Firefox thing.

If it was Windows doing it, then surely it would be checking this
message as I type, but no, my typos are unmarked.

Many years ago I learned the value of the pronunciation guide in the
dictionary.

I was born in Indiana and took a job in eastern North Carolina. One day
I was teasing one of the locals about their pronunciation of a word.
After discussing who was right and who was wrong, they got a dictionary
which showed the pronunciation. I pronounce the word based on the way I
spoke the guide letters, they pronounce the word based on the way they
pronounced the guide letters. Guess what both of our pronunciations
were correct as we both pronounced the guide letters in out own accent.

So we continue to correctly pronounce the word with our own accent.

--
2017: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
  #28  
Old August 30th 17, 01:02 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
Robert Bannister[_2_]
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Posts: 79
Default Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)

On 30/8/17 3:05 am, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 18:31:01 +0100, "NY" wrote:

Harassed: most UK people (excluding Frank Spencer in the sitcom "Some
Mothers Do Have 'Em") put the stress on the first syllable, whereas most US
people (and Frank Spencer!) put the stress on the second syllable



I'm not from the UK and I don't know who Frank Spencer is, but I
pronounce it the UK way: stress on the first syllable--HARR-issed.

I think most Americans say har-ASSED because they see the letters
a-s-s (the word you spell ARSE in the UK), and they automatically
pronounce those letters ASS.



"forehead" - "for-head" or "FORRid" (the latter
is almost obsolete)



Obsolete or not, I say FORR-id. By the way, I might be wrong but I
think more people (at least in the US) say FAR-head rather than
FOR-head.


Likewise with "forehead". I think it must be an age thing, although I
think most British speakers stress "harass" on the first syllable.


and "waistcoat" ("wayst-coat" or "WESSkit" (again, the
latter has almost died out


Sadly, it seems that in this country at least, "waistcoat" has been
replaced by "vest". It helps that we never called an undershirt a vest
as they do in England.


Regardless of pronunciation, the word itself has almost died out (at
least in the US). I can't remember the last time I used or heard it,
but if I had to say it, I would say WESS-kit. Most Americans say VEST.



Likewise the city of Bristol used to be spelled Bristowe many centuries ago,
but the Bristol dialect tends to add an L sound to the end of words which
end in a vowel sound, so "window" becomes "windowl", "area" becomes "areal"
and "banana" becomes "bananal". Eventually the spelling of the city name was
modified to reflect how the locals pronounced it!



Thanks very much! That's new to me, but I always like to know little
things like that.



--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
  #29  
Old August 30th 17, 01:08 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
Robert Bannister[_2_]
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Posts: 79
Default Speak a common spelling error list (hints on demand)

On 30/8/17 6:06 am, Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-08-29 17:03, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 21:38:33 +0100, Â* wrote:

[...]robably because my parents do as well and it's what I have heard
all my life.
I'm also reminded of the obsolete spelling of the past-participle of the
verb "show", as typified by the notice "All tickets must be shewn" on
old
buses. My dad remembers thinking that this was an absurd spelling of
"shown", even when he was growing up in the 1940s.


I think that's just a British spelling. It's never used in the US.


It was spelt thus, actually, into the early 1900s, especially by New
England writers. Its disappearance in current US spelling reminds me of
the disappearance of "practise", a devil of a word, since it was
supposedly a different word than "practice", and one was supposed to
know when to use which spelling. In speech of course there's no
difference at all, which shews you how silly it is to insist on some
spelling variations. They are really class-markers; most rules of
"correct English" are about class, not grammar.


There is a whole series of pairs with c and s, where c is the noun:
advice, prophecy, practice, licence
and s is the verb]
advise, prophesy, practise, license.
Some, like advice/advise sound different, other don't, but the noun/verb
rule remains. Nothing to do with class.



--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
  #30  
Old August 30th 17, 02:16 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.usage.english,alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
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"NY" wrote

| And there regional and age-of-speaker differences in the way the some
words
| are pronounced:
|
| - tomato ("tomayto" / "tomarto") is an obvious US/UK difference
|

Tomahto is also common in some parts of the US.
Connecticut is one such place, I think.

There's an interesting survey of such things
in the US, he

http://www4.uwm.edu/FLL/linguistics/dialect/maps.html

I was talking to someone recently about "trash".
In New Englad it's rubbish. And the food part is
garbage. Or at any rate it was when I was growing up.
But we get a lot of midwesterners here and now I
don't know anyone but myself who calls it rubbish;
even among the locals.



 




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