Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 23:41:08 -0400, nospam wrote:

how do you expect to embed fonts into a mac powerpoint presentation
without using a mac?

You fail to comprehend the simplest of statements.

You don't have the skill set nor the intention to answer the question.

The sooner you disappear, the better it will be for everyone.

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 23:37:51 -0400, nospam wrote:

that question is not remaining. you're just too ****ing stupid to
figure it out. it's actually comically easy, with at least two methods,
but since you've alienated those who know the answers, you're on your
own.

The sooner you disappear the better it will be for everyone.

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 23:39:07 -0400, nospam wrote:

that question is not remaining. you're just too ****ing stupid to
figure it out. it's actually comically easy, with at least two methods,
but since you've alienated those who know the answers, you're on your
own.

The sooner you disappear the better it will be for everyone.

Chaya Eve wrote in
news
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 10:32:45 +1200, Your Name
wrote:

Since "Roadgeek 2005 Series B" is a common free font for road signs,
the "small print" is almost non existent. The font is freely available
everywhere, where a simple search turns it up in scores of web sites.

But nowhere is the license agreement in the least complex.
https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/search?q=roadgeek

The license says:
"This font may be freely distributed and used provided copyright
notifications remain intact."

The copyright says:
"Copyright (c) Michael D. Adams, 2005. All rights reserved."

So how do you maintain a copyright notice intact in PowerPoint 2007?

Best suggestion would be to create a separate slide placed either at the
beginning or at the end of the presentation just to display that
information. If you are extremely proud of your work, you could add your
own name (or the team if this was a joint project) as 'Presentation Created
by'. After all, it is your intellectual property.

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 20:41:30 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

it is Creative Commons, not Collective Commons
https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/Main_Page

Thanks to you and others, most of the original question is answered!
Q1: Embedding a specific font into both Mac & Windows PowerPoint 2007.
Q2: Complying with the legal Creative Commons copyright agreement.

The only question left is the Mac PowerPoint embedding procedure.

Are there Mac experts on this ng who know the answer to the first question?

As I said I haven¢t used Power Point on a Mac for over 10 years, and since
I retired I have had little reason to use Keynote. So in respect of your
question, I will be of little help.

Actually you were a great help because there were two questions involved,
one of which was the legal attribution.

Here is a picture of a sample of raw sign material:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/09/sign_blanks.jpg

A school will be doing the printing as a class project where the materials
cost is coming from the residents who are customizing the PowerPoint, so
it's a combined community project, where the legal and Mac/Windows
compatibility issues need to be ironed out.

I can upload the powerpoint if a specific mac expert asks for it but I
don't have a Mac to test out the font embedding on so that is why I am
asking Mac experts the question of how to embed true-type fonts in
PowerPoint on the Mac.

The question is a generic question which anyone who ever embedded fonts on
the Mac in PowerPoint would know the answer to.

OK, as I understand it you are printing individual slides from the
PowerPoint presentation for the purpose of using those printed pages as
templates to create physical portions of the sign. So you are just
transfering the images to a different media.

As such, you are not distributing the actual font to anyone else. I really
don't think anyone is going to try to recreate any part of the original
font file using images from your signs. As long as you display the
information requested by Roadgeek in the presentation, you should be
covered.

On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 04:07:27 GMT, Tim wrote:

So how do you maintain a copyright notice intact in PowerPoint 2007?

Best suggestion would be to create a separate slide placed either at the
beginning or at the end of the presentation just to display that
information. If you are extremely proud of your work, you could add your
own name (or the team if this was a joint project) as 'Presentation Created
by'. After all, it is your intellectual property.

Since this is a community project which involves the school, we just need
to faithfully answer the two questions:
Q1: Embedding a specific font into both Mac & Windows PowerPoint 2007.
Q2: Complying with the legal Creative Commons copyright agreement.

Here is a sample of the two types of blanks we may end up using:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/09/signs.jpg

We have the second question completely answered now, which is that we'll do
as you and Savageduck and Mayayana suggested, which is add a final page
stating the Creative Commons copyright attribute suggested by Savageduck.

The only question left is the Mac PowerPoint embedding procedure.

If there are any Mac experts on this ng, they should be able to see if the
font embedding instructions from Microsoft work also for the Mac.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...-in-powerpoint

Microsoft doesn't say anything about compatibility between Windows and Mac
but this site implies that there is no compatibilty with font embedding.
http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

Mac experts are asked if they can embed TT fonts in PowerPoint, and how?

On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 04:23:38 GMT, Tim wrote:

OK, as I understand it you are printing individual slides from the
PowerPoint presentation for the purpose of using those printed pages as
templates to create physical portions of the sign. So you are just
transfering the images to a different media.

Actually, it's a group project between the local community and the local
high school graphics lab, where I am only in charge of creating the overall
process that must be legally sound and technically sound.

The biggest problem seems to be compatibility between Mac & Windows, where
it seems Windows can embed fonts but Macs might not have that capability.
http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

Everyone will receive the same PowerPoint file, which I can upload to the
net if a specific Mac user requests it for testing purposes.

As such, you are not distributing the actual font to anyone else. I really
don't think anyone is going to try to recreate any part of the original
font file using images from your signs. As long as you display the
information requested by Roadgeek in the presentation, you should be
covered.

Everyone will be asked to create their own custom sign from that PPT.
Nobody will be asked to install fonts.

The goal is for the font to be embedded in the powerpoint file.

Here are the two types of sample blanks that we may end up using.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/09/signs.jpg

I think we'll be using that larger punched blank because it looks best:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/09/sign_blanks.jpg

But those smaller flimsy punched blanks are a lot cheaper.

At the moment, everything is figured out except we need a Mac expert on
this newsgroup who knows something about PowerPoint.

On 2017-09-09 03:00:03 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 21:54:27 -0400, Mayayana
wrote:

I would interpret that to mean that you need to
include a copy of the license when you distribute the
font. I have a number like that, which I've downloaded
from font sites.

I interpret that the same, so it's easily enough done to add a page to the
multi-page PowerPoint presentation stating what Savageduck kindly also
suggested:
"Roadgeek 2005 Series B Copyright © Michael D. Adams, 2005."

I wouldn't worry about crediting inside the PPT.

That's exactly the question!

I can't see any other way to credit the copyright other than the way that
Savageduck suggested, which is to add a page at the end crediting the
copyright owner.
snip

The type of license smallprint mentiond with this font is usually meant
for those who compile and distribute font collections. They're the ones
who have to acknowledge the original person. The normal end-user
doesn't really have to worry about it, although if you were printing a
book or something to be sold, then it might be at least polite to list
a similar acknowledgement in the book's copyright pages (usually near
the front).

On 2017-09-09 03:26:43 +0000, Chaya Eve said:

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 15:03:04 +1200, Your Name wrote:

Is there a button to convert fonts to bitmap in PowerPoint?

Nope. No button. You'd need to use a graphics application such as
Photoshop, GraphicConverter, etc. to create the image, and then import
that into PowerPoint.

Thanks. I was afraid of that answer.
The goal is only these two questions to be answered:
1. Technical (how do I embed the Roadgeek TT font in PowerPoint?)
2. Legal (what am I supposed to do for copyright stuff?

We have the second question answered already for Mac & Windows users.
And we have the first question answered already for Windows users.

Mac experts are needed now to answer the first question for the Mac.

OR,
you could type the text into PowerPoint as normal, so that it remains
editable. Then when the slides no longer need changing, take
screenshots and then delete the text and replace with the cropped
screenshot.

The requirement is for editing by both Mac and Windows PPT users.

The only still-open question of the two posed in the OP is how to embed the
Roadgeek 2005 True-Type font into a Mac PowerPoint application given this
is the warning that I found when I searched how Mac users embed fonts.

"Mac versions of PowerPoint can't embed fonts or use fonts that have been
embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint."
http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

Does anyone on this ng have a Mac to test if fonts can be embedded in PPT?

If you're distributing a PowerPoint document to be edited by other
people, then you're best to give them the original font files as well
(the original .zip archive, including the licence text if there is one)
for them to install.

Depending on the software (and user choices) Embeded fonts may or mauy
not include all the characters. Sometimes embedded fonts only include
the characters that have actually been used. If, for example, you
didn't use a lowercase z, then the emedded font may not include that z
character if someone else needs it.

On 2017-09-09 03:38:38 +0000, Chaya Eve said:

The problem is a real problem which has been explained fully.
I can even upload the file if you want to see the PowerPoint file itself.

The only unknown now is how to embed a font in PowerPoint on the Mac.

Are there any Mac experts on this ng?
If so, can you tell us how to embed that font into PPT on the Mac?

You apparently can't embed fonts in the Mac version of Microsoft
PowerPoint ... at least not in PowerPoint 2016. (I can't find anything
that says the situation has changed in Mac PowerPoint 2017.)

There is an add-on that claims to do it for Mac versions of PowerPoint
2011 and PowerPoint 2016:

Presentation Font Embedder
http://www.presentationfontembedder.com

The Mac App Store says it's free, but has "offers in-app purchases",
whatever they may be ... I haven't ever used it.


Mac users could of course use the Windows version of PowerPoint under
virtualisation software or Apple's Boot Camp, but that would require
buying both Windows OS and the Windows version of PowerPoint. (You
could try using Windows PowerPoint under one of the WINE solutions,
such as CrossOver, that do not require the Windows OS, but since they
don't actually have Windows OS they do tend to be buggy and not fully
compatible).

Chaya Eve wrote:

The problem is a real problem which has been explained fully.
I can even upload the file if you want to see the PowerPoint file itself.

The only unknown now is how to embed a font in PowerPoint on the Mac.

Are there any Mac experts on this ng?
If so, can you tell us how to embed that font into PPT on the Mac?

How many times do you need people to say the same thing?

The Mac version of PowerPoint does not have the ability to embed fonts,
nor can it display fonts which were embedded by the Windows version of
PowerPoint.

The only one to blame for this is Microsoft, who chose not to implement
that feature in the Mac version of PowerPoint (it still isn't there in
the latest PowerPoint 2016).

If you want your presentation to be editable by multiple people, and it
requires embedded fonts, then there is no way to involve most Mac users
in that process because they won't have a version of PowerPoint that
supports embedded fonts.

For that matter, given a general audience of Mac users you can't even
assume they will have PowerPoint at all - only some Mac users have gone
to the extra expense of buying Microsoft Office.

If you need cross platform editing of presentations with embedded fonts,
a better solution is to ditch PowerPoint and use something else which
really is cross platform, e.g. LibreOffice appears to support this. I
haven't tried that feature (or used it at all for presentations) but it
would be easy enough for you to try it and see if it is good enough.

--
David Empson

Your Name wrote:

On 2017-09-09 03:38:38 +0000, Chaya Eve said:

The problem is a real problem which has been explained fully.
I can even upload the file if you want to see the PowerPoint file itself.

The only unknown now is how to embed a font in PowerPoint on the Mac.

Are there any Mac experts on this ng?
If so, can you tell us how to embed that font into PPT on the Mac?

You apparently can't embed fonts in the Mac version of Microsoft
PowerPoint ... at least not in PowerPoint 2016. (I can't find anything
that says the situation has changed in Mac PowerPoint 2017.)

There is an add-on that claims to do it for Mac versions of PowerPoint
2011 and PowerPoint 2016:

Presentation Font Embedder
http://www.presentationfontembedder.com

The Mac App Store says it's free, but has "offers in-app purchases",
whatever they may be ... I haven't ever used it.

I had a look at that while researching my previous post.

It won't help in this case, because the presentation needs to be
editable on both platforms.

It has two features:

1. Convert fonts to images, for play-only presentations which will work
on both Mac and Windows PowerPoint. The text is no longer editable. This
won't work with fonts embedded in the presentation - the Mac user must
have the font installed.

2. Embed fonts into a PowerPoint presentation created on a Mac, for
presentations which will subsequently be edited and played on Windows
only. The embedded fonts won't play on the Mac, because the Mac version
of PowerPoint does not support that feature. The Mac user must have the
font installed to embed it in the presentation.

If the presentation needs to be editable on both Mac and Windows, and
must have an embedded font, then PowerPoint is not a practical solution
for a general audience.

Mac users could of course use the Windows version of PowerPoint under
virtualisation software or Apple's Boot Camp, but that would require
buying both Windows OS and the Windows version of PowerPoint. (You
could try using Windows PowerPoint under one of the WINE solutions,
such as CrossOver, that do not require the Windows OS, but since they
don't actually have Windows OS they do tend to be buggy and not fully
compatible).

That would work but seriously limits the range of Mac users who could
participate in editing the presentation, because most Macs don't have
Windows (and many that do have Windows won't have Office for Windows).

--
David Empson

Davoud:
It's quite a stretch to say that Macs can't handle fonts as well as
Windows! Apple (inventor of desktop publishing *and* of TrueType fonts,
the basis for Open Type) is not to blame because MS crippled the Mac
versions of their office suite. They had to; if MSOffice for the
superior Mac OS had all the features of the Windows version that would
be the end of Windows in the enterprise.

Chaya Eve :
I don't have a Mac. Do you have a Mac?

Of course I have Macs. Five of 'em. I've got work to do.

Did you read this? http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

Nope. Life's too short.

Do you agree or disagree with the statement you are responding to?
"Mac versions of PowerPoint can't embed fonts or use fonts
that have been embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint."

I do not disagree that PP for Mac cannot imbed fonts. I disagree that
it is Apple's fault that Microsoft limits the capabilities of MS Office
for Mac because MS (90+ percent of the OS market) greatly fears Apple
(5+ percent).

If you still disagree, can you tell us how Mac users can embed that font?

Since I didn't disagree I cannot tell you that. I can, however, tell
you how I might handle the issue in general. It's no different to
handling the licensing issue. I would use common fonts that are likely
to be on a wide range of computers and do not require embedding. And,
of course, I wouldn't be using PP; I would use Apple's highly capable
and elegant Keynote application.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 18:31:41 +1200, Your Name wrote:

Depending on the software (and user choices) Embeded fonts may or mauy
not include all the characters. Sometimes embedded fonts only include
the characters that have actually been used. If, for example, you
didn't use a lowercase z, then the emedded font may not include that z
character if someone else needs it.

I had not thought of that so thank you for brining up the fact that the
true type fonts that are embedded should be the entire set, including
arrows and shields.

In our case, the project is a 'no trespassing' project, which the kids will
like because they can get creative with their renditions, and where the
residents will be strictly alphabetical.