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#1
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For those considering Linux...
....
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-17.10-BIOS-Corrupter Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff. |
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#2
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For those considering Linux...
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:
... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...tu-17.10-BIOS- Corrupter Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff. One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu. |
#3
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For those considering Linux...
ray carter wrote:
Doomsdrzej wrote: ... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-17.10-BIOS-Corrupter Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff. One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu. "Hadron" may have been right about Ubuntu being too aggressive with releasing new versions before they are properly vetted. Fortunately, unlike Windows users, GNU/Linux users can choose from multiple vendors, so are far more likely to find a find a product that is more to their "taste". -- "98% of the market seems to like it." - "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark |
#4
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For those considering Linux...
--
"98% of the market seems to like it." - "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark The above is perhaps my favorite Quack quote. It nicely encapsulates his ****ty, illogical defense of the monopolists in Redmond. -- "Apparently it's called choice : I call it a diluted mess designed to confuse and put real people off. A bit like the crazy distro dance." - "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark |
#5
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For those considering Linux...
Doomsdrzej wrote:
... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-17.10-BIOS-Corrupter Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff. Before high-fiving yourself, also consider that UEFI has a checkered history. https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/25091.html "Samsung can end up bricked And I remember when I thought UEFI would make our lives simpler and reduce the amount of ridiculous hacks we needed. Sigh." There was also a case in Windows, where some Windows thing modifies a setting in the BIOS - and later when the user gets into the BIOS, there *no* way to put it back. So even Windows has a means of triggering trap-door behavior, by flipping something in the BIOS, that cannot be corrected from a BIOS setup screen. UEFI is just a bad bad idea. That's the message. I *think* I'm covered, because my computer has a special USB port, with a flasher function built right in. You plug in a USB stick with a named BIOS file on it, push a button, and the image is loaded into the BIOS (there is a separate chip on the motherboard handling this). The function works so well, that even if the CPU is not in the CPU socket and it's "just a motherboard", the flashing function still works. You can buy my motherboard, connect an ATX power supply, plug in a USB stick, flash the BIOS, power off... and insert a previously-unsupported CPU and have it work. I haven't needed to use that, but that's my "insurance policy" in times of trouble. The traditional BIOS, also used to write to itself, but not anywhere nearly as badly designed as UEFI. It has a microcode cache (I loaded mine manually on my P2B-S), it has DMI/ESCD (mostly innocuous). Whereas UEFI can be bricked, just via the "NVRAM storage in flash" feature, an area used to hold various variables. Paul |
#6
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For those considering Linux...
On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray carter wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote: ... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...tu-17.10-BIOS- Corrupter Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff. One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu. Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like this. |
#7
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For those considering Linux...
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 14:57:55 -0500, Paul
wrote: Doomsdrzej wrote: ... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-17.10-BIOS-Corrupter Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff. Before high-fiving yourself, also consider that UEFI has a checkered history. https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/25091.html "Samsung can end up bricked And I remember when I thought UEFI would make our lives simpler and reduce the amount of ridiculous hacks we needed. Sigh." There was also a case in Windows, where some Windows thing modifies a setting in the BIOS - and later when the user gets into the BIOS, there *no* way to put it back. So even Windows has a means of triggering trap-door behavior, by flipping something in the BIOS, that cannot be corrected from a BIOS setup screen. UEFI is just a bad bad idea. That's the message. I have no doubt of it. I tend to disable it entirely whenever I install Linux on this machine. It's always more trouble than it's worth. I *think* I'm covered, because my computer has a special USB port, with a flasher function built right in. You plug in a USB stick with a named BIOS file on it, push a button, and the image is loaded into the BIOS (there is a separate chip on the motherboard handling this). The function works so well, that even if the CPU is not in the CPU socket and it's "just a motherboard", the flashing function still works. You can buy my motherboard, connect an ATX power supply, plug in a USB stick, flash the BIOS, power off... and insert a previously-unsupported CPU and have it work. I haven't needed to use that, but that's my "insurance policy" in times of trouble. A very cool feature, I have to admit. If anything, it's protection against malware like the dreaded CIH virus of 1999. The traditional BIOS, also used to write to itself, but not anywhere nearly as badly designed as UEFI. It has a microcode cache (I loaded mine manually on my P2B-S), it has DMI/ESCD (mostly innocuous). Whereas UEFI can be bricked, just via the "NVRAM storage in flash" feature, an area used to hold various variables. I had a motherboard a few years ago which had two BIOS chips. If the first one gets corrupted, the second is used as a failsafe. I believe the motherboard's brand was DFI. I don't know if their motherboards are any good but that feature, at the very least, was very welcome. |
#8
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For those considering Linux...
Paul wrote:
I *think* I'm covered, because my computer has a special USB port, with a flasher function built right in. You plug in a USB stick with a named BIOS file on it, push a button, and the image is loaded into the BIOS (there is a separate chip on the motherboard handling this). The function works so well, that even if the CPU is not in the CPU socket and it's "just a motherboard", the flashing function still works. You can buy my motherboard, connect an ATX power supply, plug in a USB stick, flash the BIOS, power off... and insert a previously-unsupported CPU and have it work. BIOS updates with no CPU installed? I've not heard of that before, but it has obvious uses, as you say. In all the motherboard reviews I've read, I've not seen that feature mentioned. Am I not reading carefully-enough? -- "(Being able to afford overpriced tools) is a source of burning envy for others. We all know that chrisv falls into this category." - lying asshole "-hh", lying shamelessly |
#9
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For those considering Linux...
On 20-12-2017 21:44, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray carter wrote: On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote: ... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...tu-17.10-BIOS- Corrupter Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff. One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu. Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like this. Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people might be reluctant to use Windows10 in general as a result of news like this. |
#10
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For those considering Linux...
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray carter wrote: On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote: ... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...=Ubuntu-17.10- BIOS- Corrupter Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff. One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu. Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like this. 'news like this' meaning that one particular Linux distribution has an issue with their most recent release? I guess MS never had a problem with an initial release of any windows version. |
#11
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For those considering Linux...
chrisv wrote:
Paul wrote: I *think* I'm covered, because my computer has a special USB port, with a flasher function built right in. You plug in a USB stick with a named BIOS file on it, push a button, and the image is loaded into the BIOS (there is a separate chip on the motherboard handling this). The function works so well, that even if the CPU is not in the CPU socket and it's "just a motherboard", the flashing function still works. You can buy my motherboard, connect an ATX power supply, plug in a USB stick, flash the BIOS, power off... and insert a previously-unsupported CPU and have it work. BIOS updates with no CPU installed? I've not heard of that before, but it has obvious uses, as you say. In all the motherboard reviews I've read, I've not seen that feature mentioned. Am I not reading carefully-enough? P9X79 Page16 "USB BIOS Flashback USB BIOS Flashback offers the most convenient way to flash the BIOS ever! It allows overclockers to try new BIOS versions easily, without even entering their existing BIOS or operating system. Just plug in USB storage and push the dedicated button for 3 seconds, and the BIOS is automatically flashed using standby power. Worry-free overclocking for the ultimate convenience! " For most people, the use-case for this, is gaining support for a CPU, by using a more recent BIOS. A job we used to solve by buying a $40 Celeron, putting it on the motherboard, flashing up, then tossing the Celeron in the garbage. And it apparently runs off +5VSB. Here is the public relations material on the feature. http://event.asus.com/2012/mb/USB_BIOS_Flashback_GUIDE/ With Asus, some of these features only last a few years, before they turf them. I can see a Z170A board that has FlashBack, but I don't see the button to press on that one. Paul |
#12
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For those considering Linux...
On 20 Dec 2017 22:10:56 GMT, ray carter wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote: On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray carter wrote: On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote: ... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...=Ubuntu-17.10- BIOS- Corrupter Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff. One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu. Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like this. 'news like this' meaning that one particular Linux distribution has an issue with their most recent release? I guess MS never had a problem with an initial release of any windows version. Can you recall Windows being responsible for corrupting a BIOS, sinec Windows 1.0? |
#13
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For those considering Linux...
On 2017-12-20 2:41 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On 20 Dec 2017 22:10:56 GMT, ray carter wrote: On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote: On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray carter wrote: On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote: ... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...=Ubuntu-17.10- BIOS- Corrupter Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff. One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu. Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like this. 'news like this' meaning that one particular Linux distribution has an issue with their most recent release? I guess MS never had a problem with an initial release of any windows version. Can you recall Windows being responsible for corrupting a BIOS, sinec Windows 1.0? Does this count, twitboy: 'Windows 10 corrupted my BIOS' https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-performance-winpc/windows-10-corrupted-my-bios/0a7e5acb-78b7-43be-87e9-f24aedefb4be How about this: 'Windows10 auto-update just corrupted my DVD player, then my bios' https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-update-winpc/windows10-auto-update-just-corrupted-my-dvd-player/1d9bbcc4-c146-4cc4-b0ec-af48dad1c1ba Or this: 'After windows update my BIOS is corrupted and system will not boot ' https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/after-windows-update-my-bios-is-corrupted-and/d3da6560-bc52-4da3-9c51-4ccb675207f9 |
#14
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For those considering Linux...
On 12/20/2017 3:11 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2017-12-20 2:41 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote: On 20 Dec 2017 22:10:56 GMT, ray carter wrote: On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote: On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray carter wrote: On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote: ... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...=Ubuntu-17.10- BIOS- Corrupter Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff. One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu. Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like this. 'news like this' meaning that one particular Linux distribution has an issue with their most recent release? I guess MS never had a problem with an initial release of any windows version. Can you recall Windows being responsible for corrupting a BIOS, sinec Windows 1.0? Does this count, twitboy: 'Windows 10 corrupted my BIOS' https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-performance-winpc/windows-10-corrupted-my-bios/0a7e5acb-78b7-43be-87e9-f24aedefb4be How about this: 'Windows10 auto-update just corrupted my DVD player, then my bios' https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-update-winpc/windows10-auto-update-just-corrupted-my-dvd-player/1d9bbcc4-c146-4cc4-b0ec-af48dad1c1ba Or this: 'After windows update my BIOS is corrupted and system will not boot ' https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/after-windows-update-my-bios-is-corrupted-and/d3da6560-bc52-4da3-9c51-4ccb675207f9 I have one uefi motherboard that once had win8.1, but wouldn't boot. Couldn't get it to do anything. Second motherboard booted into the uefi just fine until I installed win8.1. 8.1 ran fine until I cycled power. After the first power cycle, it never booted again. Supposed to have the ability to boot from a thumb drive to restore bios, but it wouldn't read the flash. |
#15
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For those considering Linux...
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 02:41:00 -0600,
wrote: On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote: ... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-17.10-BIOS-Corrupter Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff. This comes as no surprise to me. I wanted to try Linux some years ago. I wrote some ISO files to flash drives to make them bootable, and runable. I began with several brand new flash drives. Not only did many of them not boot on any of my computers, but these ISO files literally killed the flash drives. Most of them had 5 writes or less. After killing 5 or 6 flash drives, I quit all linux use after that. Even the few distros that did boot, did not impresse me. I guess I can be thankful that my only losses were about $35 worth of flash drives, and not a motherboard or entire computer. I've run several versions of Linux from CDs, DVDs, flash drives, AND more. Never had a problem. |
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