For those considering Linux...

On 2017-12-21 5:16 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 16:16:30 -0800, Alan Baker
wrote:

On 2017-12-21 3:25 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:13:31 -0500, Wolffan
wrote:

On 2017 Dec 21, Doomsdrzej wrote
(in ):

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 21:45:50 +1100, Lucifer
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...tu-17.10-BIOS-
Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.

I have machines running Solaris 10 and 11.

And some people still use Atari STs to produce music. What's your
point?

His point is that he’s so pure that he uses 12-year-old OSes (almost old
enough to be of interest to Roy Moore!) rather than pollute his environment
with Mickeysoft or, worse, crApple, products,

Speaking of Roy Moore, do you have concrete evidence that the
allegations are true?


You mean other than the utterly obvious implication of him saying he
never dated a girl "without her mother's permission".

Hint for you: if you're dating adults, you don't need permission.

So you have none and are operating entirely off of assumptions, like
with the "Russian collusion" garbage.

You're an idiot, Baked Anus. Possibly dumber than Peter the Klöwn,
John Gohde and Michael Glasser of Prescott, Arizona.

With that in mind, *plonk*


Awwww... ...snowflake.

On 2017 Dec 21, Alan Baker wrote
(in article ):

On 2017-12-21 3:25 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:13:31 -0500,
wrote:

On 2017 Dec 21, Doomsdrzej wrote
(in ):

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 21:45:50 +1100, Lucifer
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...ntu-17.10-BIOS
-
Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.

I have machines running Solaris 10 and 11.

And some people still use Atari STs to produce music. What's your
point?

His point is that he’s so pure that he uses 12-year-old OSes (almost old
enough to be of interest to Roy Moore!) rather than pollute his environment
with Mickeysoft or, worse, crApple, products,

Speaking of Roy Moore, do you have concrete evidence that the
allegations are true?

You mean other than the utterly obvious implication of him saying he
never dated a girl "without her mother's permission".

Hint for you: if you're dating adults, you don't need permission.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: if you’re in your 30s and
you want to date someone who’s young enough that you gotta get their
momma’s permission, SHE’S TOO DAMN YOUNG FOR YOU, YOU DAMN PERVERT.

On 2017 Dec 21, Doomsdrzej wrote
(in ):

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 16:16:30 -0800, Alan
wrote:

On 2017-12-21 3:25 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:13:31 -0500,
wrote:

On 2017 Dec 21, Doomsdrzej wrote
(in ):

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 21:45:50 +1100, Lucifer
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...untu-17.10-BIO
S-
Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.

I have machines running Solaris 10 and 11.

And some people still use Atari STs to produce music. What's your
point?

His point is that he’s so pure that he uses 12-year-old OSes (almost old
enough to be of interest to Roy Moore!) rather than pollute his
environment
with Mickeysoft or, worse, crApple, products,

Speaking of Roy Moore, do you have concrete evidence that the
allegations are true?

You mean other than the utterly obvious implication of him saying he
never dated a girl "without her mother's permission".

Hint for you: if you're dating adults, you don't need permission.

So you have none and are operating entirely off of assumptions, like
with the "Russian collusion" garbage.

Roy Moore’s very own words aren’t enough? He’s a self-admitted kiddie
fiddler.


You're an idiot, Baked Anus. Possibly dumber than Peter the Klöwn,
John Gohde and Michael Glasser of Prescott, Arizona.

With that in mind, *plonk*

Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 12:29:32 -0600, chrisv
wrote:

Wolffan wrote:

I have machines running Solaris 10 and 11.

And some people still use Atari STs to produce music. What's your
point?

His point is that he’s so pure that he uses 12-year-old OSes (...) rather
than pollute his environment with Mickeysoft or, worse, crApple, products,

Well, for the truly paranoid...

I also have machines running Mac OSX and IOS as well as Windows XP
and Windows 10.

On 12/21/17 5:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2017-12-21 3:25 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:13:31 -0500, Wolffan
wrote:

On 2017 Dec 21, Doomsdrzej wrote
(in ):

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 21:45:50 +1100, Lucifer
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...tu-17.10-BIOS-
Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.

I have machines running Solaris 10 and 11.

And some people still use Atari STs to produce music. What's your
point?

His point is that he’s so pure that he uses 12-year-old OSes (almost old
enough to be of interest to Roy Moore!) rather than pollute his environment
with Mickeysoft or, worse, crApple, products,

Speaking of Roy Moore, do you have concrete evidence that the
allegations are true?


You mean other than the utterly obvious implication of him saying he
never dated a girl "without her mother's permission".

Hint for you: if you're dating adults, you don't need permission.

True, you don't need permission. But, it doesn't mean you can't ask. :-)


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 53.0.2 (64 bit)
Thunderbird 52.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 2017-12-21 8:29 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 12/21/17 5:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2017-12-21 3:25 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:13:31 -0500, Wolffan
wrote:

On 2017 Dec 21, Doomsdrzej wrote
(in ):

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 21:45:50 +1100, Lucifer
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej Â* wrote:

On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray Â* wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...tu-17.10-BIOS-

Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.

I have machines running Solaris 10 and 11.

And some people still use Atari STs to produce music. What's your
point?

His point is that he’s so pure that he uses 12-year-old OSes (almost
old
enough to be of interest to Roy Moore!) rather than pollute his
environment
with Mickeysoft or, worse, crApple, products,

Speaking of Roy Moore, do you have concrete evidence that the
allegations are true?


You mean other than the utterly obvious implication of him saying he
never dated a girl "without her mother's permission".

Hint for you: if you're dating adults, you don't need permission.

True, you don't need permission.Â* But, it doesn't mean you can't ask.Â* :-)



True... ...but really... ...come on...

....what are the odds?

:-)

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 20:18:28 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 19:51:05 -0500, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2017-12-21 18:25, Doomsdrzej wrote:
[...]

Speaking of Roy Moore, do you have concrete evidence that the
allegations are true?

You mean, apart from what the victims said?

You mean what the _alleged_ victims said and supported with unverified
evidence.

Be kinda hard to get, since kiddie-diddlers take great care not to be
observed.

So you believe that people are guilty until proven innocent.

I don't want to live in the same world as you, Comrade.

Where will you go? I'm just asking so that I can be sure to avoid it.

On 12/21/17 9:38 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2017-12-21 8:29 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 12/21/17 5:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2017-12-21 3:25 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:13:31 -0500, Wolffan
wrote:

On 2017 Dec 21, Doomsdrzej wrote
(in ):

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 21:45:50 +1100, Lucifer
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...tu-17.10-BIOS-

Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.

I have machines running Solaris 10 and 11.

And some people still use Atari STs to produce music. What's your
point?

His point is that he’s so pure that he uses 12-year-old OSes (almost
old
enough to be of interest to Roy Moore!) rather than pollute his
environment
with Mickeysoft or, worse, crApple, products,

Speaking of Roy Moore, do you have concrete evidence that the
allegations are true?


You mean other than the utterly obvious implication of him saying he
never dated a girl "without her mother's permission".

Hint for you: if you're dating adults, you don't need permission.

True, you don't need permission. But, it doesn't mean you can't ask. :-)



True... ...but really... ...come on...

...what are the odds?

Let's go to Vegas and find out!!!! G

Yea, the odds are long, but it's still possible. In some parts of the
country, those old fashioned customs are still honored.

Do I think he did it, or at least some of it? Yep. Will I tell you
he's guilty? Not a chance in H e double hockey sticks. Why?

Because I believe in one of the cornerstones of our justice system...
Innocent until proven guilty.

From listening to news reports, it would appear most people no longer
believe that.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 53.0.2 (64 bit)
Thunderbird 52.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 12/21/2017 4:22 PM, Paul wrote:
mike wrote:

Don't suppose you have a link to a fixit procedure that a mortal
EE could implement?
I still have that gateway computer.
Has unlabeled pads around the chip.
I found a BIOS upgrade that claims to let you disable UEFI.
Might be an interesting winter project.

Problem is that I have no details.
I'd rather not desolder the chip.
How do we keep the CPU from conflicting with the programmer?
What's in the bios update file? How do I determine what to
copy to what chip addresses?
I suspect it's simple the second time you do it.

Well, I don't have a Gateway, and I don't know what
they're trying to offer you in this case. This might be
a box with one of the older Intel inspired EFI designs
(I would have to go look up the details on one of those).

Normally, you offer a CSM code module, to add legacy BIOS
behavior to a UEFI BIOS. That's what modern BIOS have. Mine,
for example, offers to switch to CSM only, UEFI only, or
auto-detect (you select a boot drive, it figures it out).
Mine has everything I need to test scenarios, all except
a TPM and Secure Boot. Which is fine by me.

A UEFI-only BIOS, would be missing a CSM module (a piece of code).

If the BIOS is an earlier version, there were EFI BIOS
which might not be quite as mature. I would expect
some of the earlier ones to be less flexible in their
approach, or have outright bugs ("brick-able").

BIOS flashing, the operation itself, is pretty simple. You erase
segment after segment, and reprogram them. The BIOS chip, if it's
a boot block flash, can have a low 8KB segment or a high 8KB segment,
which is managed a bit separately from the rest. And a persistent
chunk of code might be designed to run in there. The presence of
such a code, is intended to make recovery from a bad flash possible.
An 8KB code segment, isn't big enough to run a video display,
so recovery is "done blind".

You could, in theory, flash upgrade the main portion of
such chips, leaving the boot block intact. If the flash fails,
you can do a "blind flash" and attempt to put it back together
again. If the flash fails and your plan B doesn't work out, then
it's soldering iron time for the Flash soldered to the
motherboard. On a PLCC, you can buy a $100 pair of micro snipper
pliers (I broke mine), and cut the legs on the chip one by one.

(Yes, the center to center is pretty damn tight...)

https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1YjFOL...pg_220x220.jpg


That makes it easier for someone who doesn't have a hot air
de-soldering station. Things you cannot get the snippers
on, you can use a special low temperature solder (Chip Quik),
to make it easier to remove surface mount components
(again, because you lack a hot air rework setup). Once you
coat all the solder pads with Chip Quik, you could just
turn the board upside-down, heat the lid on the chip, and
the surface mount PLCC chip just falls off. Chip Quik melts
at such a low temperature, all the other solder joints
remain intact.

http://www.chipquik.com/store/index.php

*******

When mention of EFI/UEFI first came out, there were some
BIOS flashes offered, to change a legacy BIOS motherboard
to a UEFI BIOS motherboard. But that practice stopped
almost immediately. From then on, you either got legacy
motherboards or you got UEFI motherboards, but with no
secondary file offered to change them over. It costs
money to make both versions, license money, and the novelty
of offering both wore off real fast. I think the BIOS
companies may have promoted this, with relaxed pricing,
during the interval where "catastrophies" were likely.

You may have a product with CSM added or subtracted, rather
than a file which is a legacy design and a completely
different design which is UEFI based.

I don't think there is a problem attempting to do this,
the problem is what happens if it doesn't work and
the thing is bricked. But that's aways been the case
(unless you owned a BIOS Savior, in which case you can
plan ahead, and with one of two Flash chips bricked,
you survive to live another day). When you plug in a BIOS
Savior, you have a total of two flash chips. The second
chip holds your "known-working" copy, and a slide switch
selects chip A or chip B. People releasing hacked BIOS
to the Internet, they would use those for testing,
so the people on the Internet weren't used as guinea pigs.

Paul
Thanks for the history lesson, but the short answer would be
that you don't know either. ;-)

The system is already bricked.
There's also the complication that this particular motherboard
is almost invisible on the internet. I'd quote the model number,
but it's in the attic under a big pile of not working stuff
I just can't bear to throw away.
I think I have the correct
file, but can't be sure.
I do have desoldering tools.
There appear to be pads for programming the chip without removing it.
But, without knowing what part of the downloaded bios update file
goes to what addresses, there's nothing to be done.

mike wrote:

Thanks for the history lesson, but the short answer would be
that you don't know either. ;-)

The system is already bricked.
There's also the complication that this particular motherboard
is almost invisible on the internet. I'd quote the model number,
but it's in the attic under a big pile of not working stuff
I just can't bear to throw away.
I think I have the correct
file, but can't be sure.
I do have desoldering tools.
There appear to be pads for programming the chip without removing it.
But, without knowing what part of the downloaded bios update file
goes to what addresses, there's nothing to be done.

Is the BIOS file, when properly unpacked, a power of two size ?

Then you know everything.

Quite frequently, the old BIOS files were a power of two size...
and so was the chip.

Paul

On 2017 Dec 22, Ken Springer wrote
(in article ):

On 12/21/17 9:38 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2017-12-21 8:29 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 12/21/17 5:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2017-12-21 3:25 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:13:31 -0500,
wrote:

On 2017 Dec 21, Doomsdrzej wrote
(in ):

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 21:45:50 +1100, Lucifer
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...Ubuntu-17.10-B
IOS-
Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.

I have machines running Solaris 10 and 11.

And some people still use Atari STs to produce music. What's your
point?

His point is that he’s so pure that he uses 12-year-old OSes (almost
old
enough to be of interest to Roy Moore!) rather than pollute his
environment
with Mickeysoft or, worse, crApple, products,

Speaking of Roy Moore, do you have concrete evidence that the
allegations are true?

You mean other than the utterly obvious implication of him saying he
never dated a girl "without her mother's permission".

Hint for you: if you're dating adults, you don't need permission.

True, you don't need permission. But, it doesn't mean you can't ask. :-)

True... ...but really... ...come on...

...what are the odds?

Let's go to Vegas and find out!!!! G

Yea, the odds are long, but it's still possible. In some parts of the
country, those old fashioned customs are still honored.

Do I think he did it, or at least some of it? Yep. Will I tell you
he's guilty? Not a chance in H e double hockey sticks. Why?

Because I believe in one of the cornerstones of our justice system...
Innocent until proven guilty.

From listening to news reports, it would appear most people no longer
believe that.

There is no question as to whether or not Roy Moore is sexually attracted to
teenagers. He is. He has admitted it, numerous times, not least when he
stated that he was first attracted to his current wife when she was 15 or 16,
I forget which. The only question is whether or not he jumped the girls who
said he did. The man’s a kiddie fiddler. He has admitted it, several times.
The question is _which particular kiddies did he fiddle_, not whether or not
he’s a pervert. He says that he didn’t do _these particular girls_.
That’s not the point. And that is why I find it disgusting when some try to
steer the discussion away to ‘innocent until proven guilty’, when they
know damn well that he will _never_ be proven guilty if only because the
statute of limitations on being a kiddie fiddler _for those particular girls_
expired a long time ago.

The man was a prosecutor; it was his duty to hunt down and punish kiddie
fiddlers. The man was a judge. It was his duty to drop the hammer on kiddie
fiddlers. Instead, he was, and is, one. He is a disgusting waste of skin.

Wolffan wrote:

Doomsdrzej wrote

Alan Baker wrote:

Doomsdrzej wrote:

Speaking of Roy Moore, do you have concrete evidence that the
allegations are true?

LOL Classic right-wing behavior from "Slimer". Lie, deny, lie, deny.
Maintain the "full court press". Don't give an inch. Our news is
truth, yours is fake.

You mean other than the utterly obvious implication of him saying he
never dated a girl "without her mother's permission".

Hint for you: if you're dating adults, you don't need permission.

So you have none and are operating entirely off of assumptions, like
with the "Russian collusion" garbage.

Roy Moore’s very own words aren’t enough? He’s a self-admitted kiddie
fiddler.

No! He is a righteous, bible-thumping Christian! (rolling eyes)

--
"Linux is super for the techy who programs or uses platform
independant tech. But not for the Joe Average at home who wants to use
the best proprietary Windows SW." - "True Linux advocate" Hadron
Quark

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 20:46:54 -0500, Wolffan
wrote:

On 2017 Dec 21, Alan Baker wrote
(in article ):

On 2017-12-21 3:25 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:13:31 -0500,
wrote:

On 2017 Dec 21, Doomsdrzej wrote
(in ):

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 21:45:50 +1100, Lucifer
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...ntu-17.10-BIOS
-
Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.

I have machines running Solaris 10 and 11.

And some people still use Atari STs to produce music. What's your
point?

His point is that he’s so pure that he uses 12-year-old OSes (almost old
enough to be of interest to Roy Moore!) rather than pollute his environment
with Mickeysoft or, worse, crApple, products,

Speaking of Roy Moore, do you have concrete evidence that the
allegations are true?

You mean other than the utterly obvious implication of him saying he
never dated a girl "without her mother's permission".

Hint for you: if you're dating adults, you don't need permission.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: if you’re in your 30s and
you want to date someone who’s young enough that you gotta get their
momma’s permission, SHE’S TOO DAMN YOUNG FOR YOU, YOU DAMN PERVERT.

He's from the South. There, like in many European countries, you asked
the father or mother for permission to date their daughter. It was
deemed respectful by people who knew how to behave. Unfortunately,
liberals don't have manners and don't understand what it means to
behave.

Doomsdrzej wrote:

Wolffan wrote:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: if you’re in your 30s and
you want to date someone who’s young enough that you gotta get their
momma’s permission, SHE’S TOO DAMN YOUNG FOR YOU, YOU DAMN PERVERT.

He's from the South. There, like in many European countries, you asked
the father or mother for permission to date their daughter. It was
deemed respectful by people who knew how to behave. Unfortunately,
liberals don't have manners and don't understand what it means to
behave.

You see? In the up-is-down, lies-are-truth world of a right-winger,
Roy Moore is well-behaved, while "liberals" are not.

--
"In the meantime, just what has Linus made from selling licenced
copies of Linux? Zero, right? To what degree is that answer because
the business model that he chose to use doesn't really facilitate it
to work to provide said compensation?" - lying asshole "-hh"

On 12/22/17 4:57 AM, Wolffan wrote:
On 2017 Dec 22, Ken Springer wrote
(in article ):

On 12/21/17 9:38 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2017-12-21 8:29 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 12/21/17 5:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2017-12-21 3:25 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:13:31 -0500,
wrote:

On 2017 Dec 21, Doomsdrzej wrote
(in ):

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 21:45:50 +1100, Lucifer
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On 20 Dec 2017 17:17:34 GMT, ray wrote:

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:36:59 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...Ubuntu-17.10-B
IOS-
Corrupter

Linux corrupts your BIOS. Brilliant stuff.

One example of why I use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

Probably a good point, but I hope you'll understand why some people
might be reluctant to use Linux in general as a result of news like
this.

I have machines running Solaris 10 and 11.

And some people still use Atari STs to produce music. What's your
point?

His point is that he’s so pure that he uses 12-year-old OSes (almost
old
enough to be of interest to Roy Moore!) rather than pollute his
environment
with Mickeysoft or, worse, crApple, products,

Speaking of Roy Moore, do you have concrete evidence that the
allegations are true?

You mean other than the utterly obvious implication of him saying he
never dated a girl "without her mother's permission".

Hint for you: if you're dating adults, you don't need permission.

True, you don't need permission. But, it doesn't mean you can't ask. :-)

True... ...but really... ...come on...

...what are the odds?

Let's go to Vegas and find out!!!! G

Yea, the odds are long, but it's still possible. In some parts of the
country, those old fashioned customs are still honored.

Do I think he did it, or at least some of it? Yep. Will I tell you
he's guilty? Not a chance in H e double hockey sticks. Why?

Because I believe in one of the cornerstones of our justice system...
Innocent until proven guilty.

From listening to news reports, it would appear most people no longer
believe that.

There is no question as to whether or not Roy Moore is sexually attracted to
teenagers. He is. He has admitted it, numerous times, not least when he
stated that he was first attracted to his current wife when she was 15 or 16,
I forget which.

In case you haven't noticed, there is no magical switch that says before
a certain age you are _not_ attracted to someone, and after you reach
that age, you _will_ be attracted to someone.

That "age" is a cultural/societal/religious setting, *not* biological.

I graduated from high school in 1966. Unknown to me, there were at
least 2 married couples in my class. One already had a child.

My point? Attraction has nothing to do with an arbitrarily set age.

The only question is whether or not he jumped the girls who
said he did.

Exactly. And at this point, that is still an open question. Unlike
others who have or quasi-have admitted sexual misconduct.
The man’s a kiddie fiddler. He has admitted it, several times.
The question is _which particular kiddies did he fiddle_, not whether or not
he’s a pervert. He says that he didn’t do _these particular girls_.
That’s not the point.

That is *exactly* the point. To date, every situation is a "he said,
she said" situation, which is _proof_ of nothing.

And that is why I find it disgusting when some try to
steer the discussion away to ‘innocent until proven guilty’, when they
know damn well that he will _never_ be proven guilty if only because the
statute of limitations on being a kiddie fiddler _for those particular girls_
expired a long time ago.

Before going out on such an unsupportable limb, let me ask you a
question. What if you were accused of some crime for which you were not
guilty, and were on trial. Would you want any member of the jury to be
sitting here voting for guilty just because they *thought* or *believed*
you were guilty?

The man was a prosecutor; it was his duty to hunt down and punish kiddie
fiddlers. The man was a judge. It was his duty to drop the hammer on kiddie
fiddlers. Instead, he was, and is, one. He is a disgusting waste of skin.

*If* true, you are correct. He should have known better. But for
years, powerful men in our society have thought they were above the law,
and perpetrated many illegal acts.

And, there are many cases where men (and I'm sure women) who have spent
years in jail for things they did *not* do because different reasons.

It can happen both ways.

Have you heard of Graham J. Zellick? He was legal professor in England.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_J._Zellick He made a famous
statement that goes "It is far better that 10 guilty men go free than
one innocent man is wrongfully convicted ... We know from bitter
experience that juries get things wrong. The Court of Appeal ought to be
more active in quashing convictions even though there has not been any
irregularity in the trial process."

Do you believe all efforts should be made to ensure no innocent person
should go to jail?



--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 53.0.2 (64 bit)
Thunderbird 52.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"