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#16
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Delay on Shutdown
On 09/02/2018 23:20, Paul wrote:
David B. wrote: On 07/02/2018 08:30, Pinnerite wrote: A recent change in my Win-10 behaviour is that when attempting to shutdown, this message appears on the screen 'Error Recovery Guide This app is preventing shutdown' Is there a cure? Have you tried THIS facility? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ed/adk-install And what was your opinion of it ? Â*Â* Paul Hi Paul I've not used it myself but came across it looking for a solution to help my nephew. He called me on Thursday advising that his desktop HP Pavillion, only about 2 years old and running Windows 10, would not shutdown normally any more. I suspect that this may have been caused by a Microsoft Update and suggested that he simply 'force' shutdowns if he REALLY wanted to turn off his computer before another update corrected matters (probably!). Any guidance from you on this situation will be welcomed. -- David B. |
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#17
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Delay on Shutdown
David B. wrote:
On 09/02/2018 23:20, Paul wrote: David B. wrote: On 07/02/2018 08:30, Pinnerite wrote: A recent change in my Win-10 behaviour is that when attempting to shutdown, this message appears on the screen 'Error Recovery Guide This app is preventing shutdown' Is there a cure? Have you tried THIS facility? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ed/adk-install And what was your opinion of it ? Paul Hi Paul I've not used it myself but came across it looking for a solution to help my nephew. He called me on Thursday advising that his desktop HP Pavillion, only about 2 years old and running Windows 10, would not shutdown normally any more. I suspect that this may have been caused by a Microsoft Update and suggested that he simply 'force' shutdowns if he REALLY wanted to turn off his computer before another update corrected matters (probably!). Any guidance from you on this situation will be welcomed. At its max, that's a 4GB download. I know, because I got a copy a few days ago, so I could use it on a machine while the machine was disconnected from the Internet. I carried it over on a USB stick. At one time, it was a 7GB download. And the download time was listed as 24 hours because somebody at Microsoft thought it would be funny to throttle the download. So I had to use a multi-threaded downloader to get it in only four hours or so. The current version doesn't do that. The first step in problem resolution like that, is reviewing what software is on the machine, what hacks have been applied, for some explanation for why it's happening. As an example, uphclean from the Win2K/WinXP era has been rolled right into the OS design, so open registry hives will no longer delay Windows shutdowns. But that doesn't stop services ignoring shutdown requests or the like from screwing things up. Neither would it help with PendMoves which happen at shutdown time (the parts of Windows Updates that run as the OS is shutting down, things done at that time because there won't be any conflicts with running software). You should be able to see a good deal of that activity, as long as you find a tutorial page to go with the download. The download by itself isn't going to help someone, as they need a crafted command to run it. And using something like WPR isn't the answer either, as it'll waste 2 hours of your time and do half a dozen reboots, all for nothing. There are tools in the kit that are pure showboating, and not getting to the heart of the matter. The tools also don't solve the problem of identifying svchosts. A number of svchosts only have one service inside them, but if you're sitting in the graphing tool later, all you'll see is SVCHOST pid_number and you won't be given any clue which one it is. PIDs are randomly assigned at boot, so no two runs of the OS uses the same assignments. This is the same behavior you'd see on Linux, Unix, or MacOSX, pids are randomly assigned on each run, as a function of the timing and startup when the OS boots. It's when a process has a "real name" that we can understand what they do. Paul |
#18
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Delay on Shutdown
On 10/02/2018 11:19, Paul wrote:
David B. wrote: On 09/02/2018 23:20, Paul wrote: David B. wrote: On 07/02/2018 08:30, Pinnerite wrote: A recent change in my Win-10 behaviour is that when attempting to shutdown, this message appears on the screen 'Error Recovery Guide This app is preventing shutdown' Is there a cure? Have you tried THIS facility? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ed/adk-install And what was your opinion of it ? Â*Â*Â* Paul Hi Paul I've not used it myself but came across it looking for a solution to help my nephew. He called me on Thursday advising that his desktop HP Pavillion, only about 2 years old and running Windows 10, would not shutdown normally any more. I suspect that this may have been caused by a Microsoft Update and suggested that he simply 'force' shutdowns if he REALLY wanted to turn off his computer before another update corrected matters (probably!). Any guidance from you on this situation will be welcomed. At its max, that's a 4GB download. I know, because I got a copy a few days ago, so I could use it on a machine while the machine was disconnected from the Internet. I carried it over on a USB stick. At one time, it was a 7GB download. And the download time was listed as 24 hours because somebody at Microsoft thought it would be funny to throttle the download. So I had to use a multi-threaded downloader to get it in only four hours or so. The current version doesn't do that. The first step in problem resolution like that, is reviewing what software is on the machine, what hacks have been applied, for some explanation for why it's happening. As an example, uphclean from the Win2K/WinXP era has been rolled right into the OS design, so open registry hives will no longer delay Windows shutdowns. But that doesn't stop services ignoring shutdown requests or the like from screwing things up. Neither would it help with PendMoves which happen at shutdown time (the parts of Windows Updates that run as the OS is shutting down, things done at that time because there won't be any conflicts with running software). You should be able to see a good deal of that activity, as long as you find a tutorial page to go with the download. The download by itself isn't going to help someone, as they need a crafted command to run it. And using something like WPR isn't the answer either, as it'll waste 2 hours of your time and do half a dozen reboots, all for nothing. There are tools in the kit that are pure showboating, and not getting to the heart of the matter. The tools also don't solve the problem of identifying svchosts. A number of svchosts only have one service inside them, but if you're sitting in the graphing tool later, all you'll see is SVCHOST pid_number and you won't be given any clue which one it is. PIDs are randomly assigned at boot, so no two runs of the OS uses the same assignments. This is the same behavior you'd see on Linux, Unix, or MacOSX, pids are randomly assigned on each run, as a function of the timing and startup when the OS boots. It's when a process has a "real name" that we can understand what they do. Â*Â* Paul Thank you so much for responding, Paul. I suspect my nephew is unlikely to be able to master the procedure - he has little patience!!! He did, though, run an HP test yestwerday with this result: https://imgur.com/gallery/v2Yjq This afternoon he/we did a system restore on his machine but there has been no improvement. Still slow to start up and won't turn off unless the 'Power On/Off' button is pressed. After the 'Restore' he had a McAfee icon on his desktop. He used Control Panel to remove it. I've just noticed this online:- http://www.thewindowsclub.com/uninst...curity-windows Do you support what the article says? Is there any other action you can suggest? FWIW, whilst Dale's computer is 'ON' everything is apparently working well. It's just the start-up and shutdown which takes a long time (it took much longer than Windows 10 does on my laptop). -- David B. |
#19
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Delay on Shutdown
David B. wrote:
On 10/02/2018 11:19, Paul wrote: David B. wrote: On 09/02/2018 23:20, Paul wrote: David B. wrote: On 07/02/2018 08:30, Pinnerite wrote: A recent change in my Win-10 behaviour is that when attempting to shutdown, this message appears on the screen 'Error Recovery Guide This app is preventing shutdown' Is there a cure? Have you tried THIS facility? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ed/adk-install And what was your opinion of it ? Paul Hi Paul I've not used it myself but came across it looking for a solution to help my nephew. He called me on Thursday advising that his desktop HP Pavillion, only about 2 years old and running Windows 10, would not shutdown normally any more. I suspect that this may have been caused by a Microsoft Update and suggested that he simply 'force' shutdowns if he REALLY wanted to turn off his computer before another update corrected matters (probably!). Any guidance from you on this situation will be welcomed. At its max, that's a 4GB download. I know, because I got a copy a few days ago, so I could use it on a machine while the machine was disconnected from the Internet. I carried it over on a USB stick. At one time, it was a 7GB download. And the download time was listed as 24 hours because somebody at Microsoft thought it would be funny to throttle the download. So I had to use a multi-threaded downloader to get it in only four hours or so. The current version doesn't do that. The first step in problem resolution like that, is reviewing what software is on the machine, what hacks have been applied, for some explanation for why it's happening. As an example, uphclean from the Win2K/WinXP era has been rolled right into the OS design, so open registry hives will no longer delay Windows shutdowns. But that doesn't stop services ignoring shutdown requests or the like from screwing things up. Neither would it help with PendMoves which happen at shutdown time (the parts of Windows Updates that run as the OS is shutting down, things done at that time because there won't be any conflicts with running software). You should be able to see a good deal of that activity, as long as you find a tutorial page to go with the download. The download by itself isn't going to help someone, as they need a crafted command to run it. And using something like WPR isn't the answer either, as it'll waste 2 hours of your time and do half a dozen reboots, all for nothing. There are tools in the kit that are pure showboating, and not getting to the heart of the matter. The tools also don't solve the problem of identifying svchosts. A number of svchosts only have one service inside them, but if you're sitting in the graphing tool later, all you'll see is SVCHOST pid_number and you won't be given any clue which one it is. PIDs are randomly assigned at boot, so no two runs of the OS uses the same assignments. This is the same behavior you'd see on Linux, Unix, or MacOSX, pids are randomly assigned on each run, as a function of the timing and startup when the OS boots. It's when a process has a "real name" that we can understand what they do. Paul Thank you so much for responding, Paul. I suspect my nephew is unlikely to be able to master the procedure - he has little patience!!! He did, though, run an HP test yestwerday with this result: https://imgur.com/gallery/v2Yjq This afternoon he/we did a system restore on his machine but there has been no improvement. Still slow to start up and won't turn off unless the 'Power On/Off' button is pressed. After the 'Restore' he had a McAfee icon on his desktop. He used Control Panel to remove it. I've just noticed this online:- http://www.thewindowsclub.com/uninst...curity-windows Do you support what the article says? Is there any other action you can suggest? FWIW, whilst Dale's computer is 'ON' everything is apparently working well. It's just the start-up and shutdown which takes a long time (it took much longer than Windows 10 does on my laptop). If it's a McAfee trial, yeah, you'd probably want to remove it. The web page that has the removal tool, should have instructions for when to use it. Some AV removal tools, you try them after using the Programs and Features control panel removal. Other removal tools will just handle everything for you. As long as you follow the instruction page, it'll probably work out. If a machine is infected, and you're doing AV removal the same day, then there's no guarantee what will happen. And when you introduce a new AV, some of them can "fight" their way into a machine and clean it. Not all of them are that aggressive. for example, Kaspersky, it might take you several reboots, but it can eventually clean out a malware for you. My Win10 setup has become 20 seconds slower within the last month. And so far, no hints as to what that is. A CPU core rails, there's no disk I/O, and 20 seconds later the OS comes up. Paul |
#20
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Delay on Shutdown
On 10/02/2018 20:40, Paul wrote:
David B. wrote: On 10/02/2018 11:19, Paul wrote: David B. wrote: On 09/02/2018 23:20, Paul wrote: David B. wrote: On 07/02/2018 08:30, Pinnerite wrote: A recent change in my Win-10 behaviour is that when attempting to shutdown, this message appears on the screen 'Error Recovery Guide This app is preventing shutdown' Is there a cure? Have you tried THIS facility? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ed/adk-install And what was your opinion of it ? Â*Â*Â* Paul Hi Paul I've not used it myself but came across it looking for a solution to help my nephew. He called me on Thursday advising that his desktop HP Pavillion, only about 2 years old and running Windows 10, would not shutdown normally any more. I suspect that this may have been caused by a Microsoft Update and suggested that he simply 'force' shutdowns if he REALLY wanted to turn off his computer before another update corrected matters (probably!). Any guidance from you on this situation will be welcomed. At its max, that's a 4GB download. I know, because I got a copy a few days ago, so I could use it on a machine while the machine was disconnected from the Internet. I carried it over on a USB stick. At one time, it was a 7GB download. And the download time was listed as 24 hours because somebody at Microsoft thought it would be funny to throttle the download. So I had to use a multi-threaded downloader to get it in only four hours or so. The current version doesn't do that. The first step in problem resolution like that, is reviewing what software is on the machine, what hacks have been applied, for some explanation for why it's happening. As an example, uphclean from the Win2K/WinXP era has been rolled right into the OS design, so open registry hives will no longer delay Windows shutdowns. But that doesn't stop services ignoring shutdown requests or the like from screwing things up. Neither would it help with PendMoves which happen at shutdown time (the parts of Windows Updates that run as the OS is shutting down, things done at that time because there won't be any conflicts with running software). You should be able to see a good deal of that activity, as long as you find a tutorial page to go with the download. The download by itself isn't going to help someone, as they need a crafted command to run it. And using something like WPR isn't the answer either, as it'll waste 2 hours of your time and do half a dozen reboots, all for nothing. There are tools in the kit that are pure showboating, and not getting to the heart of the matter. The tools also don't solve the problem of identifying svchosts. A number of svchosts only have one service inside them, but if you're sitting in the graphing tool later, all you'll see is SVCHOST pid_number and you won't be given any clue which one it is. PIDs are randomly assigned at boot, so no two runs of the OS uses the same assignments. This is the same behavior you'd see on Linux, Unix, or MacOSX, pids are randomly assigned on each run, as a function of the timing and startup when the OS boots. It's when a process has a "real name" that we can understand what they do. Â*Â*Â* Paul Thank you so much for responding, Paul. I suspect my nephew is unlikely to be able to master the procedure - he has little patience!!! He did, though, run an HP test yestwerday with this result: https://imgur.com/gallery/v2Yjq This afternoon he/we did a system restore on his machine but there has been no improvement. Still slow to start up and won't turn off unless the 'Power On/Off' button is pressed. After the 'Restore' he had aÂ* McAfee icon on his desktop. He used Control Panel to remove it. I've just noticed this online:- http://www.thewindowsclub.com/uninst...curity-windows Do you support what the article says? Is there any other action you can suggest? FWIW, whilst Dale's computer is 'ON' everything is apparently working well. It's just the start-up and shutdown which takes a long time (it took much longer than Windows 10 does on my laptop). If it's a McAfee trial, yeah, you'd probably want to remove it. The web page that has the removal tool, should have instructions for when to use it. Some AV removal tools, you try them after using the Programs and Features control panel removal. Other removal tools will just handle everything for you. As long as you follow the instruction page, it'll probably work out. If a machine is infected, and you're doing AV removal the same day, then there's no guarantee what will happen. And when you introduce a new AV, some of them can "fight" their way into a machine and clean it. Not all of them are that aggressive. for example, Kaspersky, it might take you several reboots, but it can eventually clean out a malware for you. My Win10 setup has become 20 seconds slower within the last month. And so far, no hints as to what that is. A CPU core rails, there's no disk I/O, and 20 seconds later the OS comes up. Â*Â* Paul Just a quiick note to thank you for your additional comments, Paul. I'll let you know if there is any progress on the symptoms. -- David B. |
#21
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Delay on Shutdown
On 10/02/2018 20:40, Paul wrote:
David B. wrote: [....] FWIW, whilst Dale's computer is 'ON' everything is apparently working well. It's just the start-up and shutdown which takes a long time (it took much longer than Windows 10 does on my laptop). If it's a McAfee trial, yeah, you'd probably want to remove it. The web page that has the removal tool, should have instructions for when to use it. Some AV removal tools, you try them after using the Programs and Features control panel removal. Other removal tools will just handle everything for you. As long as you follow the instruction page, it'll probably work out. If a machine is infected, and you're doing AV removal the same day, then there's no guarantee what will happen. And when you introduce a new AV, some of them can "fight" their way into a machine and clean it. Not all of them are that aggressive. for example, Kaspersky, it might take you several reboots, but it can eventually clean out a malware for you. My Win10 setup has become 20 seconds slower within the last month. And so far, no hints as to what that is. A CPU core rails, there's no disk I/O, and 20 seconds later the OS comes up. Â*Â* Paul FYI .... It appears that someone else has had identical problems starting at the same time! https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Deskto...es/m-p/6574566 I'm wondering if it may have been caused by a Windows Update. Is that a possibility? -- David B. |
#22
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Delay on Shutdown
David B. wrote:
On 10/02/2018 20:40, Paul wrote: David B. wrote: [....] FWIW, whilst Dale's computer is 'ON' everything is apparently working well. It's just the start-up and shutdown which takes a long time (it took much longer than Windows 10 does on my laptop). If it's a McAfee trial, yeah, you'd probably want to remove it. The web page that has the removal tool, should have instructions for when to use it. Some AV removal tools, you try them after using the Programs and Features control panel removal. Other removal tools will just handle everything for you. As long as you follow the instruction page, it'll probably work out. If a machine is infected, and you're doing AV removal the same day, then there's no guarantee what will happen. And when you introduce a new AV, some of them can "fight" their way into a machine and clean it. Not all of them are that aggressive. for example, Kaspersky, it might take you several reboots, but it can eventually clean out a malware for you. My Win10 setup has become 20 seconds slower within the last month. And so far, no hints as to what that is. A CPU core rails, there's no disk I/O, and 20 seconds later the OS comes up. Paul FYI .... It appears that someone else has had identical problems starting at the same time! https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Deskto...es/m-p/6574566 I'm wondering if it may have been caused by a Windows Update. Is that a possibility? I took a look around, and that doesn't match symptoms from anything recent, that I can see. Some of the recent problems put a nice error message up for the user to see. Since the poster in that thread has "nuked and paved" the machine more than once, it makes it sound like a hardware problem. ******* On my first PC, from the year 2000 era, I bought a complete set of memory sticks. If I installed all four, then Windows 98 would be become unstable, and with no applications running either. Just moving the mouse around, with four sticks of RAM (1GB total) would crash it. If I ran with just two sticks (512MB), it was as stable as could be. I could run Prime95 for 16 hours straight, play games, whatever, and it wouldn't tip over. I had applied the mitigations for "too much RAM" in Win98 to it as well, but I was still blaming some aspect of Win98 for it. So one day, for fun, I put the sticks back, and booted a Linux LiveCD. I moved the mouse around... and it crashed. And then I knew it was a hardware problem. Because two entirely different OSes would tip over as easy as could be. That's the benefit of running a second OS, when you suspect a hardware problem. How does the hardware work with an entirely different OS ? You can place Linux Live on a DVD, or on a USB Flash key, (depending on what limited storage inputs your device has got). The only place you'd have trouble, is perhaps with Secure Boot, if a key wasn't available to run Linux on it. Some Tablets might not be all that easy to boot with a second OS for testing. Now, since the time I had the problem with that machine, every once in a while I drag it out for some other experiment. And while it's set up, I run the "old" test case again. What I discovered, is it will take 4 sticks. So it's not the number of sticks that count. And because I have many denominations of PC133 RAM, I found it would even run with 256,256,128,64 just fine. It does appear to be a "quantity" issue, which we can blame on Intel. Once the total gets past a certain point, the thing just goes to hell on stability. And because four sticks run, it's probably not a bus terminator issue. It's some kind of chipset bug. But at least now, after 17 years, I have a good idea of what works and what doesn't work. Even if I can't actually fix it. There's no point adding an extra electrolytic cap to Vtt, when the symptoms don't match. Try a second OS and see whether basic operations work as expected. Paul |
#23
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Delay on Shutdown
On 11/02/2018 21:53, Paul wrote:
David B. wrote: On 10/02/2018 20:40, Paul wrote: David B. wrote: [....] FWIW, whilst Dale's computer is 'ON' everything is apparently working well. It's just the start-up and shutdown which takes a long time (it took much longer than Windows 10 does on my laptop). If it's a McAfee trial, yeah, you'd probably want to remove it. The web page that has the removal tool, should have instructions for when to use it. Some AV removal tools, you try them after using the Programs and Features control panel removal. Other removal tools will just handle everything for you. As long as you follow the instruction page, it'll probably work out. If a machine is infected, and you're doing AV removal the same day, then there's no guarantee what will happen. And when you introduce a new AV, some of them can "fight" their way into a machine and clean it. Not all of them are that aggressive. for example, Kaspersky, it might take you several reboots, but it can eventually clean out a malware for you. My Win10 setup has become 20 seconds slower within the last month. And so far, no hints as to what that is. A CPU core rails, there's no disk I/O, and 20 seconds later the OS comes up. Â*Â*Â* Paul FYI .... It appears that someone else has had identical problems starting at the same time! https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Deskto...es/m-p/6574566 I'm wondering if it may have been caused by a Windows Update. Is that a possibility? I took a look around, and that doesn't match symptoms from anything recent, that I can see. Some of the recent problems put a nice error message up for the user to see. Since the poster in that thread has "nuked and paved" the machine more than once, it makes it sound like a hardware problem. Thanks for taking the trouble to look. I suspect that it won't be easy to diagnose, even for a 'professional'. ******* On my first PC, from the year 2000 era, I bought a complete set of memory sticks. If I installed all four, then Windows 98 would be become unstable, and with no applications running either. Just moving the mouse around, with four sticks of RAM (1GB total) would crash it. If I ran with just two sticks (512MB), it was as stable as could be. I could run Prime95 for 16 hours straight, play games, whatever, and it wouldn't tip over. I had applied the mitigations for "too much RAM" in Win98 to it as well, but I was still blaming some aspect of Win98 for it. So one day, for fun, I put the sticks back, and booted a Linux LiveCD. I moved the mouse around... and it crashed. And then I knew it was a hardware problem. Because two entirely different OSes would tip over as easy as could be. That's the benefit of running a second OS, when you suspect a hardware problem. How does the hardware work with an entirely different OS ? You can place Linux Live on a DVD, or on a USB Flash key, (depending on what limited storage inputs your device has got). The only place you'd have trouble, is perhaps with Secure Boot, if a key wasn't available to run Linux on it. Some Tablets might not be all that easy to boot with a second OS for testing. Now, since the time I had the problem with that machine, every once in a while I drag it out for some other experiment. And while it's set up, I run the "old" test case again. What I discovered, is it will take 4 sticks. So it's not the number of sticks that count. And because I have many denominations of PC133 RAM, I found it would even run with 256,256,128,64 just fine. It does appear to be a "quantity" issue, which we can blame on Intel. Once the total gets past a certain point, the thing just goes to hell on stability. And because four sticks run, it's probably not a bus terminator issue. It's some kind of chipset bug. But at least now, after 17 years, I have a good idea of what works and what doesn't work. Even if I can't actually fix it. There's no point adding an extra electrolytic cap to Vtt, when the symptoms don't match. Try a second OS and see whether basic operations work as expected. Â*Â* Paul I enjoyed your story - thanks! :-) Your suggestion of running another OS will be explained to my nephew. He's actually a Tax Manager with a firm of accountants and has little interest in how and why a computer operates - he just wants it to 'work'! The first 'real' personal computer I bought was a BBC Micro, Model B, in 1983. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Micro -- David B. |
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