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What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 23rd 18, 07:16 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 466
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?

What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_setup003.jpg

These are the things I do, in sequence, to set up a new Win10 desktop:
(What key steps am I missing that you do on each new setup?)

010_save_important_old_license_keys.txt
020_download_burn_and_install_windows.txt
030_install_windows_dual_boot_with_linux.txt
040_disable_automatic_restart_after_update.txt
050_update_windows_to_latest.txt
060_check_windows_activation_status.txt
070_change_windows_power_plan.txt
080_snapshot_initial_setup_files_and_services.txt
090_disable_onedrive_update.txt
100_monitor_and_log_installation_changes.txt
110_disable_keyboard_capslock.txt
120_create_folder_and_shortcut_hierarchy.txt
130_remove_shortcut_extraneous_text.txt
140_move_screenshot_and_download_location.txt
150_clean_root_hierarchy.txt
160_clean_up_ms_installation_crap.txt
170_remove_menu_rightclick_clutter.txt
180_add_open_command_window_here.txt
190_disable_resizing_of_window_privacy_hole.txt
200_clean_desktop_and_efficient_background.txt
210_enable_editing_of_extensionless_files.txt
220_change_cortana_default_from_bing_to_opera.txt
230_microsoft_edge_browser_save_as_dialog.txt
240_cmda_admin_prompt_open_as_admin.txt
250_disable_resizing_of_window_when_cursor_hits_ed ge.txt
250_install_legacy_printers_as_needed.txt
270_run_and_save_system_benchmark_results.txt
280_set_up_dvd_sized_storage_folders.txt
290_set_up_windows_file_explorer_options.txt
300_add_mvp_hosts_and_start_run_hosts_commands.txt
310_create_start_run_and_cortana_commands.txt
320_turn_on_start-run_memory_switch.txt
330_create_app_hierarchy.txt
340_create_quick_access_folders.txt
350_remove_3dobjects_folders_in_file_explorer.txt
360_create_cascade_menu.txt
370_create_rmb_send_to_menu_customization.txt
390_organize_quicklaunch.txt
390_organize_taskbar.txt
400_organize_startmenu.txt
410_organize_desktop.txt
420_install_basic_software.txt
430_create_start_run_commands.txt
440_remove_uac_for_one_program.txt
450_create_batch_shortcut_in_quicklaunch.txt
460_create_system_restore_point.txt
470_add_network_printer.txt
480_paste_control_v_in_vim_editor.txt
490_test_browsers_for_privacy.txt
500_enable_pinterest_browse_sans_login.txt
510_turn_off_user_account_control_uac_for_1_execut able.txt

What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_setup003.jpg
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  #2  
Old June 23rd 18, 11:32 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Big Al[_5_]
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Posts: 1,218
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop fromscratch?

On 06/23/2018 02:16 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_setup003.jpg

These are the things I do, in sequence, to set up a new Win10 desktop:
(What key steps am I missing that you do on each new setup?)

010_save_important_old_license_keys.txt
020_download_burn_and_install_windows.txt
030_install_windows_dual_boot_with_linux.txt
040_disable_automatic_restart_after_update.txt
050_update_windows_to_latest.txt
060_check_windows_activation_status.txt
070_change_windows_power_plan.txt
080_snapshot_initial_setup_files_and_services.txt
090_disable_onedrive_update.txt
100_monitor_and_log_installation_changes.txt
110_disable_keyboard_capslock.txt
120_create_folder_and_shortcut_hierarchy.txt
130_remove_shortcut_extraneous_text.txt
140_move_screenshot_and_download_location.txt
150_clean_root_hierarchy.txt
160_clean_up_ms_installation_crap.txt
170_remove_menu_rightclick_clutter.txt
180_add_open_command_window_here.txt
190_disable_resizing_of_window_privacy_hole.txt
200_clean_desktop_and_efficient_background.txt
210_enable_editing_of_extensionless_files.txt
220_change_cortana_default_from_bing_to_opera.txt
230_microsoft_edge_browser_save_as_dialog.txt
240_cmda_admin_prompt_open_as_admin.txt
250_disable_resizing_of_window_when_cursor_hits_ed ge.txt
250_install_legacy_printers_as_needed.txt
270_run_and_save_system_benchmark_results.txt
280_set_up_dvd_sized_storage_folders.txt
290_set_up_windows_file_explorer_options.txt
300_add_mvp_hosts_and_start_run_hosts_commands.txt
310_create_start_run_and_cortana_commands.txt
320_turn_on_start-run_memory_switch.txt
330_create_app_hierarchy.txt
340_create_quick_access_folders.txt
350_remove_3dobjects_folders_in_file_explorer.txt
360_create_cascade_menu.txt
370_create_rmb_send_to_menu_customization.txt
390_organize_quicklaunch.txt
390_organize_taskbar.txt
400_organize_startmenu.txt
410_organize_desktop.txt
420_install_basic_software.txt
430_create_start_run_commands.txt
440_remove_uac_for_one_program.txt
450_create_batch_shortcut_in_quicklaunch.txt
460_create_system_restore_point.txt
470_add_network_printer.txt
480_paste_control_v_in_vim_editor.txt
490_test_browsers_for_privacy.txt
500_enable_pinterest_browse_sans_login.txt
510_turn_off_user_account_control_uac_for_1_execut able.txt

What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_setup003.jpg

Setup 'file open with' associations
  #3  
Old June 23rd 18, 01:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
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Posts: 9,513
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?

On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 06:16:07 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_setup003.jpg

These are the things I do, in sequence, to set up a new Win10 desktop:


What's the difference between these two?

440_remove_uac_for_one_program.txt
510_turn_off_user_account_control_uac_for_1_execu table.txt


(What key steps am I missing that you do on each new setup?)


Disable UAC.
Disable System Restore.
Disable automatic restart on crash.
Enable display of file extensions.

That's just a few off the top of my head. I don't keep a list.

  #4  
Old June 23rd 18, 02:28 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 466
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?

On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 06:32:23 -0400, Big Al wrote:

Setup 'file open with' associations


Good catch!

Thanks for looking at the typical Windows 10 setup sequence and thanks for
noticing that glaring omission, as I had a similar note in my older
archives that I didn't transfer over to my current 2018 archives:
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_setup004.jpg

That older note, last edited in 2017, is titled:
260_add_open_with_any_desired_app_to_context_menu
Which was improved by Neil on Sat, 7 Oct 2017 12:52:22 -0400 who. I think
it was, who had suggested we get FileTypesMan.exe (File Types Manager) from
Nirsoft at http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/file_types_manager.html.

"Launch FileTypesMan. Scroll down to a file extension for which
you want to change the editor and select it. In the lower pane,
select Edit. Right-click and select Edit Selected Action from the
pull-down context menu. Change the indicated application to what
you prefer."

As you may know, the whole "open with" context menu is fraught with
complications, such as those found in the "Open With" registry key:
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\*\shellex\ContextMenuHandlers\Op en With
Default = {09799AFB-AD67-11d1-ABCD-00C04FC30936}

In addition, we might want to modify the "Send To" menu to open those file
types that Windows constantly screws up, where all we need to do in order
to add a "Send To" menu is put a shortcut to the desired open-with program
in this location:
%APPDATA%\Microsoft\Windows\SendTo\.

To flesh out your suggestion, there are additional aspects of the "open
with" problem set on Windows 10, a critical one of which is covered in this
note:
210_enable_editing_of_extensionless_files.txt
Which essentially explains to use this registry sequence:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.]
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.\shell]
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.\shell\open]
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.\shell\open\command]
@="\"C:\\Windows\\System32\\NOTEPAD.EXE\" \"%1\""

Also, there's the problem of program defaults, which is half of the "file
open with" issue...
Settings System Default Apps Choose Default Apps by File Type
but there are plenty of open-with defaults that are not settable in that
dialog - so that sequence is only a stopgap measure.

Also, to your point, it's unclear whether I should have a separate note for
each of the 13 major "Windows Settings" found at
Start Settings{System,Personalization,Privacy,etc.}
Or, if I should just write up a single comprehensive sequence, which
includes the basic "open with" defaults settings (e.g., for browsers, mail,
editors, etc.).

Thanks to your suggestion, I added a new note just now covering these
details:
380_add_open_with_any_desired_app_to_context_menu. txt

Given that addition based upon your helpful input, here's the newly revised
list of steps, where I had noticed some dups in the prior list (because it
came from my yearly archives), which I corrected below.

010_save_important_old_license_keys.txt
020_download_burn_and_install_windows.txt
030_install_windows_dual_boot_with_linux.txt
040_disable_automatic_restart_after_update.txt
050_update_windows_to_latest.txt
060_check_windows_activation_status.txt
070_change_windows_power_plan.txt
080_snapshot_initial_setup_files_and_services.txt
090_disable_onedrive_update.txt
100_monitor_and_log_installation_changes.txt
110_disable_keyboard_capslock.txt
120_create_folder_and_shortcut_hierarchy.txt
130_remove_shortcut_extraneous_text.txt
140_move_screenshot_and_download_location.txt
150_modify_all_windows_settings_in_series.txt
160_clean_up_ms_installation_crap.txt
170_remove_rightclick_menu_new_stuff_clutter.txt
180_add_open_command_window_here.txt
190_disable_auto_resizing_of_window_privacy_hole.t xt
200_clean_desktop_and_efficient_background.txt
210_enable_editing_of_extensionless_files.txt
220_change_cortana_default_from_bing_to_opera.txt
230_add_edge_browser_save_as_dialog.txt
240_add_colorized_open_as_admin_command.txt
250_install_legacy_printers_as_needed.txt
260_add_pdf_printer_sans_privacy_metadata.txt
270_run_and_save_system_benchmark_results.txt
280_set_up_dvd_sized_storage_folders.txt
290_set_up_windows_file_explorer_options.txt
300_add_mvp_hosts_and_start_run_hosts_commands.txt
310_create_start_run_and_cortana_commands.txt
320_turn_on_start-run_memory_switch.txt
330_create_app_hierarchy.txt
340_create_quick_access_folders.txt
350_remove_3dobjects_folders_in_file_explorer.txt
360_create_cascade_menu.txt
370_create_rmb_send_to_menu_customization.txt
380_add_open_with_any_desired_app_to_context_menu. txt
390_organize_quicklaunch.txt
390_organize_taskbar.txt
400_organize_startmenu.txt
410_organize_desktop.txt
420_install_basic_software.txt
430_create_start_run_commands.txt
440_remove_uac_for_one_program.txt
450_create_batch_shortcut_in_quicklaunch.txt
460_create_system_restore_point.txt
480_paste_control_v_in_vim_editor.txt
490_test_browsers_for_privacy.txt
500_enable_pinterest_browse_sans_login.txt
  #5  
Old June 23rd 18, 03:44 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 466
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?

On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 07:38:02 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

What's the difference between these two?

440_remove_uac_for_one_program.txt
510_turn_off_user_account_control_uac_for_1_exec utable.txt


Hi Char Jackson,

I very much appreciate that you looked at the list with a critical eye!
(I hope my answers & questions back of you help all of us together.)

Thanks for catching the dups in that list of the first 50 tasks anyone
would need to do in order to manually set up a new Windows 10 system.

The dups existed simply becuase I took my 2016 and 2017 archives, and
copied over to the 2018 archives the first 50 tasks that anyone would do in
order to set up a new Windows 10 computer manually.

I've since corrected them (see list below), where I appreciate that you
caught the duplication. What you noticed is that I've had a perennial
problems setting up VPN such that I can select any score of six thousand
OpenVPN configuration text files to start VPN.

This worked fine in Windows XP, but the UAC of Windows 10 makes that task
miserably inefficient - where I'm still working on a global solution to the
UAC problem, which entails hitting a switch to disable UAC for just certain
files (which is still a work in progress as exemplified by this thread):
Have you ever successfully turned off User Account Control (UAC) for just a given executable?
http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1104349

Thanks for catching the duplicate. I've since merged then and re-ordered
the list (see below for the update).

(What key steps am I missing that you do on each new setup?)

Disable UAC.


This is part of the above-mentioned note, where globally disabling UAC is
problematic, but which is described how to do it inside the note as
follows:
================================================== ==========================
Turn off User Account Control (UAC) globally in Windows 10
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_uac1.jpg

1. Directly open the control panel (remember, don't ever rely on Cortana):
RMB-Start Run C:\Windows\System32\control.exe ENTER

2. Navigate to Control Panel User Accounts
Change User Account Control settings
Move the slider from the penultimate setting of:
- Always notify me when
Apps try to install software or make changes to my computer
I make changes to Windows settings
- Notify me only when apps try to make changes to my computer (default)
Don't notify me when I make changes to Windows settings
- Notify me only when apps try to make changes to my computer
Do not dim my desktop
Don't notify me when I make changes to Windows settings
Never notify me when:
Apps try to install software or make changes to my computer
I make changes to Windows settings
Then press OK.

Or...
1. Create (or navigate to) the registry key:
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Pol icies\System
2. Create (or modify) the value of the EnableLUA DWORD from 1 to 0
UAC enabled = EnableLUA = 1 (this is the default)
UAC disabled = EnableLUA = 0

Note that WinAero Tweaker also has this setting but it's best to modify
Windows using Windows' native capabilties.
================================================== ==========================

Disable System Restore.


Hmmmmmm... Thanks... that's interesting. Very interesting.
Why would we want to disable System Restore?

In the first fifty steps, you'll note this note
460_create_system_restore_point

Which covers how to create a system restore point from the command line and
from the tool named "System Restore Point Creator".

Is there a good reason NOT to allow system restore point creation?
(Or did I misunderstand your suggestion?)

Disable automatic restart on crash.


Hmmmmmm... also very interesting. I thought that was already there.
003_automatic_restart_after_update_disable

But I just looked - and it's in my 2017 archives as shown below.
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_restore1.jpg

Last updated this past February (when I had to rebuild a system).
So THANK YOU for catching that omission!

I have one question about whether the disabling of autostart on Windows
updates is the same action as disabling autostart on crashes?

Are they the same setup? Or different?
For example, here is what that file contains for disabling automatic
restart on updates (which is what had bricked my system in January):

To disable automatic start after Windows mandatory updates
Open the control panel using the power windows shell (so you can be admin)
Control Panel
System and Security
Administrative Tools
Task Scheduler
Task Scheduler Library
Microsoft
Windows
UpdateOrchestrator.
Right click on Reboot task,
and Disable it.

Bearing in mind that they may be different actions, is that the same thing
you're suggesting?

Enable display of file extensions.


Yes. Thank you for pointing that out.
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_setup005.jpg

That, and displaying hidden files is covered in this note.
290_set_up_windows_file_explorer_options

Here is a sample of what's in that note by way of explanation, where I
appreciate that you noticed that it's a typical top-50 Windows setup need.
================================================== ==========================
In the file explorer, check "Options" (at the right) and uncheck:
File Explorer View Options Change folder and search options
General Privacy
[_]Show recently used files in Quick access
[X]Show frequently used folders in Quick access
Clear File Explorer history [Clear]
================================================== ==========================
File Explorer View Options Change folder and search options
View
[_]Hide extensions for known file types
[_]Hide protected operating system files (Recommended)
[Apply to Folders]
================================================== ==========================

That's just a few off the top of my head. I don't keep a list.


I have long kept lists of lists, but I never whittled down the myriad
things you have to do to the top-50 bare essentials, simply because I
performed them ad hoc, as I thought about them or as I ran into problems.

Here's the updated top-50 list, thanks to your helpful suggestions!
* 010_save_important_old_license_keys.txt
* 020_download_burn_and_install_windows.txt
* 030_install_windows_dual_boot_with_linux.txt
* 040_disable_automatic_restart_after_update.txt
* 050_update_windows_to_latest.txt
* 060_check_windows_activation_status.txt
* 070_change_windows_power_plan.txt
* 080_snapshot_initial_setup_files_and_services.txt
* 090_disable_onedrive_update.txt
* 100_monitor_and_log_installation_changes.txt
* 110_disable_keyboard_capslock.txt
* 120_create_folder_and_shortcut_hierarchy.txt
* 130_remove_shortcut_extraneous_text.txt
* 140_move_screenshot_and_download_location.txt
* 150_modify_all_windows_settings_in_series.txt
* 160_clean_up_ms_installation_crap.txt
* 170_remove_rightclick_menu_new_stuff_clutter.txt
* 180_add_open_command_window_here.txt
* 190_disable_auto_resizing_of_window_privacy_hole.t xt
* 200_clean_desktop_and_make_efficient_background.tx t
* 210_enable_editing_of_extensionless_files.txt
* 220_change_cortana_default_from_bing_to_opera.txt
* 230_add_edge_browser_save_as_dialog.txt
* 240_add_colorized_open_as_admin_command.txt
* 250_install_legacy_printers_as_needed.txt
* 260_add_pdf_printer_sans_privacy_metadata.txt
* 270_run_and_save_system_benchmark_results.txt
* 280_set_up_dvd_sized_storage_folders.txt
* 290_set_up_windows_file_explorer_options.txt
* 300_add_mvp_hosts_and_start_run_hosts_commands.txt
* 310_create_start_run_and_cortana_commands.txt
* 320_turn_on_start-run_memory_switch.txt
* 330_create_app_hierarchy.txt
* 340_create_quick_access_folders.txt
* 350_remove_3dobjects_folders_in_file_explorer.txt
* 360_create_cascade_menu.txt
* 370_create_rmb_send_to_menu_customization.txt
* 380_add_open_with_any_desired_app_to_context_menu. txt
* 390_organize_quicklaunch.txt
* 390_organize_taskbar.txt
* 400_organize_orthodox_and_heterodox_startmenu.txt
* 410_organize_desktop.txt
* 420_install_basic_software.txt
* 430_create_start_run_commands.txt
* 440_remove_uac_for_one_program.txt
* 450_create_batch_shortcut_in_quicklaunch.txt
* 460_create_system_restore_point.txt
* 480_paste_control_v_in_vim_editor.txt
* 490_test_browsers_for_privacy.txt
* 500_enable_pinterest_browse_sans_login.txt
  #6  
Old June 23rd 18, 06:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 466
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?

On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 14:44:24 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

I have one question about whether the disabling of autostart on Windows
updates is the same action as disabling autostart on crashes?


Here is a shot of how to disable autostart upon updates:
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_reboot_task.jpg

I'm not sure if that's the same as disabling autostart on crashes that Char
Jackson kindly suggests above?

Is it?
  #7  
Old June 24th 18, 03:07 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,513
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?

On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 17:47:55 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 14:44:24 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

I have one question about whether the disabling of autostart on Windows
updates is the same action as disabling autostart on crashes?


Here is a shot of how to disable autostart upon updates:
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_reboot_task.jpg

I'm not sure if that's the same as disabling autostart on crashes that Char
Jackson kindly suggests above?

Is it?


No, that's different.

If you go to System Properties, select the Advanced tab, there will be 3
sections there. The third section is titled "Startup and Recovery", with
a Settings button. Click Settings, then on the next screen find the
"System failure" section. The second option there should be
"Automatically restart", and it's checked by default.

With that option enabled, a system crash causes the PC to restart. To
see what the problem was, you have to go looking in Event Viewer, as one
option. By disabling that option, the system will normally halt on the
BSoD so that you can a) clearly see that there was a critical system
issue, and b) you can see what the primary offender supposedly was.

Should *you* disable that option? I don't know. I'm just saying it's
something that I do because if there's a crash, I want it to be in my
face so that I can track down the cause and fix it.

  #8  
Old June 24th 18, 04:22 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,513
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?

On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 14:44:24 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 07:38:02 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

Disable System Restore.


Hmmmmmm... Thanks... that's interesting. Very interesting.
Why would we want to disable System Restore?


The topic of SR and its value comes up every now and then in these
groups, and the general consensus is that, even though it's opaque and
it usually doesn't work, it *might* work now and again, so keep it.

I disagree with that consensus. Not because it usually fails and not
because Restore Points can swell your (hidden) System Volume Information
folder and not because Restore Points can carry malware that would be
restored along with the Restore Point. No, I disagree because it's
opaque.

When you apply a Restore Point, what happens? Microsoft tells you, in a
general sense, that your system is being restored to a prior date or
time. You apply the RP and you hope that your issue is resolved. But
what really happened? What are all of the changes that were just made to
your system? No one knows, but it's a very safe bet that the RP that you
just restored carried more than one change within it, and not just the
single change that you needed to fix your current issue. That bothers
me.

My solution is to disable System Restore. As is, I consider it to be an
abomination and I don't want to be tempted to use it out of laziness. I
prefer to fix each issue properly, rather than taking a shotgun approach
or what some call poke-and-hope.

To fix it, I'd need to see a screen that says, 'When you select and
restore this RP, the following changes will be made to your system."
However, look at how MS describes each of their KB software updates
these days, with language so vague and generalized that most people
really have no idea what MS is talking about. That doesn't cut it for
software updates, and it wouldn't cut it for System Restore.

That's my mini-rant on System Restore. I think it's a great idea for a
feature, just very poorly implemented.

  #9  
Old June 24th 18, 04:54 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 466
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?

On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 10:22:44 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

The topic of SR and its value comes up every now and then in these
groups, and the general consensus is that, even though it's opaque and
it usually doesn't work, it *might* work now and again, so keep it.


I have to agree with you on both sides of zero on the System Restore number
line. I've almost always never found the System Restore to be useful in
Windows 10 but I have found, in the past, particularly on Windows XP, that
the System Restore is useful (as I recall those distant days).

I disagree with that consensus. Not because it usually fails and not
because Restore Points can swell your (hidden) System Volume Information
folder and not because Restore Points can carry malware that would be
restored along with the Restore Point. No, I disagree because it's
opaque.


The times I've needed System Restore is usually when the machine won't boot
as I have not been infected by a virus since, oh, the floppy disk days, so
most of the time it's the OS corrupting itself, or, me corrupting it when I
try the tricks Paul suggests from Linux, for example.

Usually the boot gets corrupted for one of three reasons:
1. I was messing with a Microsoft file to turn something off, or,
2. The OS chews itself up on its own, or,
3. Some unknown cause.

In the case of the unknown cause, the disabling of the auto boot after a
problem will, as you noted prior, help to pinpoint what happened because it
may be more obvious at boot time if I'm in front of the screen at boot.

When you apply a Restore Point, what happens? Microsoft tells you, in a
general sense, that your system is being restored to a prior date or
time. You apply the RP and you hope that your issue is resolved. But
what really happened? What are all of the changes that were just made to
your system? No one knows, but it's a very safe bet that the RP that you
just restored carried more than one change within it, and not just the
single change that you needed to fix your current issue. That bothers
me.


Yes. I agree. I make scores to hundreds and maybe even thousands of changes
(who knows how many changes there are in time) to a system between restore
points. I think of a System Restore as one step shy of re-installing the
entire operating system.

In both cases you lose a lot, but in a System Restore, you lose less than
you would with a clean install.

My solution is to disable System Restore. As is, I consider it to be an
abomination and I don't want to be tempted to use it out of laziness. I
prefer to fix each issue properly, rather than taking a shotgun approach
or what some call poke-and-hope.


You explained your position well, where I understand every one of your
points, and I agree with your logic - but - where I will lean on the other
side of the logic, which is to allow a few restore points (all I ever
really need is one, I think).

I'm not sure what's the best way to allow that (I think I set a slider at
one point to a percentage of the OS - but I'd have to check) - but that's
the decision I'll make - where I respect your decision as your logic is
apropos.

To fix it, I'd need to see a screen that says, 'When you select and
restore this RP, the following changes will be made to your system."
However, look at how MS describes each of their KB software updates
these days, with language so vague and generalized that most people
really have no idea what MS is talking about. That doesn't cut it for
software updates, and it wouldn't cut it for System Restore.


Your explanation is good in that there are likely hundreds of changes (if
not more) between restore points.

For me, that's ok only because I use the System Restore as one step shy of
re-installing the operating system (which I find I have to do about every
six months, although almost always that's due to me fiddling with the files
that Microsoft doesn't want fiddled with).

That's my mini-rant on System Restore. I think it's a great idea for a
feature, just very poorly implemented.


I agree with all your logic as everything you said made perfect sense,
where I appreciate the candor and ability to explain your point of view.

I think others may benefit from this conversation; so that's good also.
  #10  
Old June 24th 18, 07:39 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 7,299
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop fromscratch?

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 17:47:55 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 14:44:24 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

I have one question about whether the disabling of autostart on Windows
updates is the same action as disabling autostart on crashes?

Here is a shot of how to disable autostart upon updates:
http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_reboot_task.jpg

I'm not sure if that's the same as disabling autostart on crashes that Char
Jackson kindly suggests above?

Is it?


No, that's different.

If you go to System Properties, select the Advanced tab, there will be 3
sections there. The third section is titled "Startup and Recovery", with
a Settings button. Click Settings, then on the next screen find the
"System failure" section. The second option there should be
"Automatically restart", and it's checked by default.

With that option enabled, a system crash causes the PC to restart. To
see what the problem was, you have to go looking in Event Viewer, as one
option. By disabling that option, the system will normally halt on the
BSoD so that you can a) clearly see that there was a critical system
issue, and b) you can see what the primary offender supposedly was.

Should *you* disable that option? I don't know. I'm just saying it's
something that I do because if there's a crash, I want it to be in my
face so that I can track down the cause and fix it.


The modern BSOD screen isn't all that useful.

https://filestore.community.support....6-a6704d9aa489

Maybe altering some dump option and analyzing that
later would give more useful info.

The QR Code could well point to the URL
that's on that screen, rather than containing
text presenting the old BSOD format. I don't have
a Smartphone to point at that QR and find out.

The example is "BAD POOL CALLER", and then I'd use the
aumha stop code page to look that up. It's a 0x000000C2.

http://aumha.org/a/stop.htm

Paul
  #11  
Old June 24th 18, 09:56 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Frank Slootweg
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Posts: 607
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 14:44:24 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 07:38:02 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

Disable System Restore.


Hmmmmmm... Thanks... that's interesting. Very interesting.
Why would we want to disable System Restore?


The topic of SR and its value comes up every now and then in these
groups, and the general consensus is that, even though it's opaque and
it usually doesn't work, it *might* work now and again, so keep it.

I disagree with that consensus. Not because it usually fails and not
because Restore Points can swell your (hidden) System Volume Information
folder and not because Restore Points can carry malware that would be
restored along with the Restore Point. No, I disagree because it's
opaque.

When you apply a Restore Point, what happens? Microsoft tells you, in a
general sense, that your system is being restored to a prior date or
time. You apply the RP and you hope that your issue is resolved. But
what really happened? What are all of the changes that were just made to
your system? No one knows, but it's a very safe bet that the RP that you
just restored carried more than one change within it, and not just the
single change that you needed to fix your current issue. That bothers
me.


It's even worse than that! Even if you're not interested to know which
change fixed your problem, SR might - and probably will - fsck up
*something else* which is has no business touching.

Microsoft implies that SR doesn't touch user data. They lie. They *do*
touch parts of user data and will - for example - have no quibble in
fscking a database, because they think they know what (not) to restore.
BTDT got the T-shirt. More on this below.

Microsoft apparently thinks that it knows what part(s) of non-MS
software (not) to restore. Fact is of course that they don't know and
*can't* possibly know, so by definition they will fsck things up.

System Restore, just say no!

[+1 comments left for completeness:]

My solution is to disable System Restore. As is, I consider it to be an
abomination and I don't want to be tempted to use it out of laziness. I
prefer to fix each issue properly, rather than taking a shotgun approach
or what some call poke-and-hope.

To fix it, I'd need to see a screen that says, 'When you select and
restore this RP, the following changes will be made to your system."
However, look at how MS describes each of their KB software updates
these days, with language so vague and generalized that most people
really have no idea what MS is talking about. That doesn't cut it for
software updates, and it wouldn't cut it for System Restore.

That's my mini-rant on System Restore. I think it's a great idea for a
feature, just very poorly implemented.

  #12  
Old June 24th 18, 10:41 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 7,299
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop fromscratch?

Frank Slootweg wrote:

Microsoft implies that SR doesn't touch user data.


What System Restore does, varies from one OS to the next.

You have to trace down a third-party web page with details.

WinXP for example, should not touch the contents of My Documents,
but if you don't use the Microsoft structure for your storage
purposes, you could find changes there. For example, using
C:\Frank would be a bad idea on WinXP, if restoring to a
three-month old restore point.

I can't answer for the others, because I don't think I
have a complete set of web pages for them. I might be
able to dig up a WinXP and a Vista. I don't know about
the rest though. Maybe sevenforums.com, eightforums.com,
and/or tenforums.com have the info in one of their
tutorials or something.

Paul
  #13  
Old June 25th 18, 02:21 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
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Posts: 9,513
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?

On 24 Jun 2018 20:56:52 GMT, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

When you apply a Restore Point, what happens? Microsoft tells you, in a
general sense, that your system is being restored to a prior date or
time. You apply the RP and you hope that your issue is resolved. But
what really happened? What are all of the changes that were just made to
your system? No one knows, but it's a very safe bet that the RP that you
just restored carried more than one change within it, and not just the
single change that you needed to fix your current issue. That bothers
me.


It's even worse than that! Even if you're not interested to know which
change fixed your problem, SR might - and probably will - fsck up
*something else* which is has no business touching.

snip

You're exactly right. I used to do a lot of PC work for random people
around me, (word of mouth thing), and I hated the ones who came over to
say that they had a problem, they tried SR, it didn't fix the problem
but it introduced an additional problem, so they tried to roll forward
again but SR tells them there are no later RPs available. So then I have
two problems to fix instead of one.

System Restore, just say no!


Preach, brother. :-)

  #14  
Old June 25th 18, 05:11 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 466
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?

On 24 Jun 2018 20:56:52 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Microsoft implies that SR doesn't touch user data. They lie. They *do*
touch parts of user data and will - for example - have no quibble in
fscking a database, because they think they know what (not) to restore.
BTDT got the T-shirt. More on this below.


Your advice, Frank Slootweg, is good advice, and born of experience.
I agree with you.

To partially protect myself from that, and for other more direct reasons,
I never store anything in "default" folders (simply because they get
polluted beyond belief), so while Microsoft *can* find my files, none are
going to be in the standard places.

All the files I care about are in:
C:\tmp (stuff I'm working on now)
C:\data (all my data files)
C:\apps (the installation hierarchy)
C:\software (the archive of installers)

That's pretty much it.

Even the menus are usually just soft links with the actual hard files kept
in C:\data and only links kept elsewhere ... but I haven't re-set that up
on Windows 10 yet as I'm rebuilding a system.
  #15  
Old June 25th 18, 01:48 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Frank Slootweg
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Posts: 607
Default What else do you do when setting up a new Win10 desktop from scratch?

Paul wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:

Microsoft implies that SR doesn't touch user data.


What System Restore does, varies from one OS to the next.

You have to trace down a third-party web page with details.

WinXP for example, should not touch the contents of My Documents,


I've not checked that particular case, but you'll probably find that
SR *does* touch the contents of 'My Documents'. It (probably/hopefully)
will not touch *documents* in 'My Documents', but if the extension of
your 'document' happens to be on SR's Bad Boys list, SR will probably
quite happily clobber your 'document'.

For an example/approximation of SR's Bad Boys list see

'Monitored File Name Extensions'
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa378870(v=vs.85).aspx

For example, if your file in 'My Documents' happens to have a .old
extension or you've downloaded a .exe installation package somewhere -
even in Microsofts Sacred Hierarchy (tm) -, SR will most likely happily
clobber it.

but if you don't use the Microsoft structure for your storage
purposes, you could find changes there. For example, using
C:\Frank would be a bad idea on WinXP, if restoring to a
three-month old restore point.


SR has no business fscking up files in directories which have nothing
to do with Microsoft or Microsoft's Sacred Hierarchy.

SR has no excuse for fscking up files with extension .pqr, while *not*
restoring files with extension .xyz.

Your - non-MS - database uses .ini, .idx and .dat files? Bad luck,
because SR will 'restore' - read: clobber - the .ini files, but *not*
the .idx and .dat files, so it happily corrupts your database which was
perfectly fine.

I can't answer for the others, because I don't think I
have a complete set of web pages for them. I might be
able to dig up a WinXP and a Vista. I don't know about
the rest though. Maybe sevenforums.com, eightforums.com,
and/or tenforums.com have the info in one of their
tutorials or something.


Any reference is basically irrelevant, because SR *cannot* work
'correctly', because it *cannot* know which files (not) to restore. I.e.
SR is broken by design.

And then we've not even touched on the fact that the state of a system
is not just defined by the state/contents of files, but also by which
processes, tasks, etc. have (not) run, etc., etc., ad infinitum.

System Restore, just say no!
 




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