O.T. HD, PSU review:

Mark Twain wrote:
If you click on the picture it opens up
a box with (7) pictures. From looking at the
fourth picture (connections) I will have 3 cables
connecting to it since you said I don't need
the PCI cabling.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817151203

which is exactly what you listed

motherboard - main 24 power, ATX12V 2x2 power
optical drive - SATA power (use one cable for one side of PC)
hard drive - SATA power (use second cable for other side of PC)
floppy - use Molex power with Molex to floppy adapter on end
video card - None

Robert

Yes, the pictures are a great help.

https://i.postimg.cc/bJL6B42c/550-FM-cables.gif

Paul

Paul wrote:

Mark Twain wrote:
These cables are confusing me. I know of course
where the main cable goes,. it's pretty hard not to miss that,
I've already tried it on the 780 but all the other cables I'm not
understanding what they are. As your link shows what I was
referring to with the separate cabling captive but mind doesn't
have that, so I'll have to use one of the cables and plug it into
the PSU, correct? I just don't have your level of knowledge of what
goes where although I'm trying to keep up.

As far as the red light , do you think I have a bad
outlet maybe? I'll wait for the testor of course.

Robert

The connectors have a variety of shapes, to help guide
you on which one to install.

There aren't really all that many connectors to install.

You can make a system drawing or grocery list if you want:

motherboard - main 24 power, ATX12V 2x2 power
optical drive - SATA power (use one cable for one side of PC)
hard drive - SATA power (use second cable for other side of PC)
floppy - use Molex power with Molex to floppy adapter on end
video card - None

By making a list of system components, you can
break down the problem into pieces, and solve
each piece, one at a time.

On the PC that has two hard drive slots, the "chained" SATA
on the SATA cable, can cover the two hard drives (if
present). That was the example I made in one of my
pictures. You tend to have the one HDD in the machine,
so you won't necessarily need to hook up the second.

For SATA drives, you need enough data cables. Perhaps
you have two SATA data cables, out of the four "spigots"
on the motherboard surface. Picking up a couple
more SATA data would help cover situations where you
want to use an additional device of some kind. It's not
absolutely necessary to solve that today, but some time
if you're ordering a few items for some other purpose, you
can include one additional SATA data. You pick a type
(straight or right angle) that best covers the situation.
The straight end might go into the motherboard, an
angled one might cover the drive end. It depends on
the situation, whether a straight one for the hard
drive would stick out too much, versus the angled
one being a bit harder to remove when you need to
remove it.

So rather than starting off confused, why not
make a "grocery list" of the project and break the
problem down into pieces ?

Part of the problem, is looking at the "jumble" of
cables in the main collection. Remember that it's
the devices that need power. You don't need to hook
up every cable. Only the cables needed to power devices
will be hooked up, leaving the other cables unused
and "coiled up somehow" to stay out of the way.

Generally, I don't like to put a lot of stress on
the cables if I can help it. And that's one of the
challenges with any PSU changeout, is figuring what
to do with the unneeded cables. In my newest build,
some of the cables "rest" in a 5.25" bay, and that
takes the weight off the PSU grommet area. Just about
every case I have here, has a lack of cable management.
The case with the metal bar that runs across the
case as a strength member, that bar is handy for
hooking up a nylon tie, to loosely hold wire.

Part of the value of this site, and the detailed photos,
is to see how they've tried to arrange the connectors
so you can't plug them into the wrong holes. This is a
good guide for anyone new to the task, as an "explainer"
for what you're holding in your hand when you pull the
PSU out of the new box.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon...onnectors.html

Start with the grocery list, make a list of "devices"
in the PC, and organize your thoughts that way. Just like
if you were planning a plumbing job, you had a water
heater, a kitchen sink and a bathroom sink. You know
all three need to be connected so you can have hot
water on each sink. Look at the devices in the PC,
and make sure they're "plumbed" :-)

Paul

Great site Paul!

Thanks for the valuable info.

JT

--

Isn't an optical drive and floppy
drive the same thing?

and thanks for marking the pictures
it helps me understand.

The two HD's arrived but still waiting
for the testor. In the meantime, I think
I'll clone one of the HD's for the 780.

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
Isn't an optical drive and floppy
drive the same thing?

and thanks for marking the pictures
it helps me understand.

The two HD's arrived but still waiting
for the testor. In the meantime, I think
I'll clone one of the HD's for the 780.

Robert

The optical drive is for DVDs, and is normally
at the top of a tower PC. Computer cases usually
have multiple 5.25" bays near the top, and the
optical drive is in one of them. Depending on the
drive type, CDs, DVDs, or BluRay fit in the tray.
The tray usually holds two disc diameters, the
"mini-disc" format used by driver discs for hardware
purchases, and the regular sized polycarbonate discs
used for CD/DVD/BR. There is an indentation in the
tray, the same size as a mini-disc, which is a hint
the drive is mini-disc compatible. Each disc type
uses a different laser light, so a drive that
supports all three disc flavors, needs at least
three lasers, and lens etc. This example is a burner,
that also burns M-Discs (a different kind of recording
surface inside the polycarbonate). I stick with CD/DVD
at the moment, and have no use for BR.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIAG1H7UZ2651

There are other optical formats such as "laserdisc"
but that's a home theater item rather than a computer
item. Laserdisc are huge, and the drive would be too
wide to fit in a PC tower.

You've already been burning CDs in yours, so I think
you know which tray that is.

*******

Floppy is for the small magnetic discs in the plastic carrier.
Roughly 3.5" on edge, with a brownish rotating sheet
of mylar inside, and a "shutter" that moves out of the
way to gain access. The shutter helps cover the media
when the floppy is removed from the drive. Typical floppy
are 1440KB, a tiny capacity, but other formats are possible.

On machines that no longer have a floppy connector
on the motherboard, you can use one of these external
floppy drives. For example, when I want to run a memtest
floppy on my newest computer, I connect one of these to
a USB port, and then I can boot from a floppy. Your floppy
drive, by comparison, uses the traditional ribbon cable.
(In your PC, the floppy ribbon cable was rolled up and sleeved
so it would affect airflow a little less.)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...oppy_drive.jpg

The floppy data cable is a bit of a pain in the ass,
because it can be rotated 180 degrees and still plugged
in. If you reverse it (on the drive end), it causes the
floppy LED to stay permanently lit, and the heads to
stay loaded. If you happen to have a floppy inside
the drive, while the cable is reversed, you can't unload
the heads until you correct the cabling error. It's
possible the cable has keying on the motherboard end,
but lacks keying on the drive end, allowing rotation.

You won't need to pull the floppy data cable, to change out
a power supply. Only the four pin power cable need be
changed.

Paul

If I understand you correctly optical drives are
the CD/DVD format and the floppy drives are for the
3.5 disk format (they came in all colors). I thought
they were obsolete? I still have a tray of them because
my first digital camera (which I still have) used them.
and also has a flash key.

If correct, I don't have any floppy drives, only optical.
So I won't be needing a cable for floppy drives.

Why do you think my optical tray isn't sliding out?

Cloning the 780.

Thanks,
Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
If I understand you correctly optical drives are
the CD/DVD format and the floppy drives are for the
3.5 disk format (they came in all colors). I thought
they were obsolete? I still have a tray of them because
my first digital camera (which I still have) used them.
and also has a flash key.

If correct, I don't have any floppy drives, only optical.
So I won't be needing a cable for floppy drives.

Why do you think my optical tray isn't sliding out?

Cloning the 780.

Thanks,
Robert

Floppy drives are obsolete, except if you happen to
have some content on them. Then you might need one
occasionally. I could put my copy of memtest on
a CD, but it wouldn't be the same.

If your optical drive tray isn't working, check that
the button isn't jammed in the fascia. Or the tray
could also jam on the lip of the opening in the computer
case.

The drive needs power to open the tray (with the motor).
The power cable has to be on the back. The data cable
needs to be connected when you want to read from it.
The tray should still open if it has power.

The tray motor has jam sensing, to a degree, but sometimes
it tries to shut the drawer on a mis-placed piece of media
and doesn't open again to let it go.

There are some plastic parts in the drive, and I suppose
they won't take too much abuse before the gears or belts
get loose.

When the drive doesn't have power and you want to open
the tray, on a desktop tray there is a pinhole where you
shove a straightened out paper clip and that opens the drawer.
On at least one other format, sometimes the hole for the
paper clip is covered by other material, making it hard
to find.

Drives come in several designs.

1) Fullsized desktop, motorized tray.
2) Laptop tray with spring-loaded drawer, where
the user opens the tray once the door springs
open a bit. Media must be jammed down onto the hub.
3) Toaster design. Media feeds into a hole in the
slim drive, and the slim drive takes care of the
rest.

I prefer (1) as you don't need to jam media onto
a hub, and ejection is a positive action (motorized
for your convenience).

Even some floppy drives had motor-based eject,
and make a satisfying noise when you eject media.
Those were on the Mac.

Paul

With the 8500 I have a full sized desk top
optical drive; when I press to open the drive
tray I don't hear any type of mechanism or that
it's trying to open. It doesn't seem to have
any power and I don't see any pinhole.

I'm thinking maybe I loosened the power cable
somehow when I had it opened. See what I mean
about me and Murphy's Law,..

I cloned the 780 via external HD but forgot I
have to boot with it afterwards. So will do that
tomorrow and I'll check the connections for the
optical drive.

Robert

I opened the 8500 to check for any loose connections
and also to get another view of the layout for cabling
etc. I'm still not understanding which cable is going to
replace the 2x2?

The optical drive tray works now,.. just one of those weird
things that happen I guess.

I have a DVD Multi Recorder RW Compact Disc Rewritable

I put the cloned HD back in the 780 and booted with it then
put the old HD back but also looked at the cabling etc. I see
what you mean about whether the SATA cables are long
enough.,. I'll have to put them next the existing ones and
measure.

I got the testor and checked both outlets and it came back
(center light lit) as open ground.. So does that mean tightening
some screws or?

Robert

I'm still not understanding which cable is going to
replace the 2x2?



Would one side of the 4x8 replace the 2x2? and the remaining
part be unconnected?

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
I opened the 8500 to check for any loose connections
and also to get another view of the layout for cabling
etc. I'm still not understanding which cable is going to
replace the 2x2?

It's a cable on the captive section of the supply. It's
the 2x4 which is split into two 2x2 sections. You use
the one with the diagonal pattern, as seen here in end-view.
The second half will need to be "scooted to the side"
as the second half is not used.
___ ___ ___ ___
| | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | |
\_/ --- \_/ \_/
___ ___ ___ ___
| | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | |
--- \_/ \_/ \_/

\_________/
|
Use this one


The optical drive tray works now,.. just one of those weird
things that happen I guess.

I have a DVD Multi Recorder RW Compact Disc Rewritable

I put the cloned HD back in the 780 and booted with it then
put the old HD back but also looked at the cabling etc. I see
what you mean about whether the SATA cables are long
enough.,. I'll have to put them next the existing ones and
measure.

I got the testor and checked both outlets and it came back
(center light lit) as open ground.. So does that mean tightening
some screws or?

When you have a dual outlet in the wall

| | The safety ground, the "o" in
o the diagram, is a common conductor
on the duplex unit, so one loose
| | connection could be a bad ground
o symptom on both outlets in the pair.

those share tabs on the side of the device,
so if ground is not wired up, both outlets
show open ground.

If you went along the wall, had two outlet duplexes and
ground was missing from *both* duplexes, then it could be
a problem at the panel level.

| | | | If both duplexes show
o o opens, then the problem
could be at the panel at
| | | | the "X". Or, if some clever
o o person cuts the wire between
| | the panel and the room of
X-------+-----------------+ course.

Your surge arrestor cannot arrest anything with an
open safety ground.

The only other issue with an open safety ground, is the
opportunity to get a shock off the computer metal casing.
The level of shock should be enough to notice there is a
problem, without throwing you to the floor.

The house I lived in as a kid, only had two prong outlets,
and I'm still here today... The safety ground adds an
additional protection mechanism, compared to our lives
back then. When a safety ground is properly wired, the
chassis of appliances cannot become "hot", because if
hot touches a chassis with a proper safety ground,
it trips the breaker.

When they designed surge arrestors, they took advantage
of the invention of safety ground, to dump transients on
the other conductors, into the safety ground. A breaker
doesn't necessarily have to trip, if the surge arrestor
does its job on short transients. The surge arrestor
active component "clips" the tops of the transient
waveforms. If sufficient joules of energy are in the
transient, the surge arrestor components inside the
strip can explode. That's why it's a "transient" protector -
any fault which places a continuous high voltage on the
surge arrestor components, blows them out. If an 1100VAC
conductor outside the house, falls onto one phase of
the 220V house wiring, it would blow out any and all
surge arrestors.

For the cheapest surge arrestors, they can catch fire
when that happens. The surge arrestor components normally
have some hard material between discs, to try to contain
any materials so they don't "go places". Cheap strips where
there is just discs and burnable plastic next to them,
it doesn't necessarily end well (it can burn a carpet).
You can find pictures on the Internet of strips
that have burned up. And that could happen on a "steady"
fault, rather than a transient one. The transient protection
helps when the power company opens or closes switches perhaps.

If the open ground is on just one duplex pair,
then it might only require inspection of that
one outlet.

The ground screw has a touch of green paint or green
marker on it. You can see the neutral and hot, have
two screws per side, as well as a conductive strip
that binds the wiring of the two outlets together.

https://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/...receptacle.gif

A proper wiring job, puts the hot and neutral on the
correct pins. It's the reason, in that diagram, that
the hot and neutral have different sized holes. That's
a "keying" of sorts. And the keying only works properly,
if the electrician wires the neutral on the left and
the hot on the right. The outlet checker will indicate
"reversed wiring" if that isn't the case.

The screw holes in the top and bottom of the
duplex, are used to hold the faceplate on and
hold the duplex to the outlet box. The outlet
box should have enough slack, so the duplex can
be pulled out for inspection a bit. With the
power *off* of course.

If your house uses aluminum wiring, replacement
duplexes must "be of the correct type". If you
have copper wiring, generally there won't be
a problem.

HTH,
Paul

I live in an older mobile home so all the
outlets are two prong and probably aluminum
wiring. In passing, I checked the other outlet
in the room and the top said correct but the
bottom came up open ground.

While the outlet where the computer plugs into
both are open ground but for awhile when I
switched the plug the red light went out,
remember?

I don't get any shocks though

So shut the power off,.. I'm skittish about doing
that. then and examine the outlets. Maybe just a
screw is loose? Or maybe I should take one out for
comparison and replace both outlets? I'll know when
I open them up.

I'll do this tomorrow,..

I just hope its something simple and everything goes
OK

Robert

I just checked several of the other
outlets in the home and they all read
open ground (only the center light is lit).

The only one that reads correct is the
computer room but only the top half, the
bottom reads open ground. I haven't checked
all the outlets but one in each room.

I think what happened is when the guy
wired the place for 220V instead of 110V
he blew all the outlets. No one bothered
to check if the outlets were OK only that
the lights came back on.

So I'll need to replace them all. I assume
they are all the same type if I take one to
the hardware store with me.

What do you think?

Robert

Robert

I counted up all the outlets that I
know of and there's (13).

Question; can I replace the outlets room
by room as I go or do I have to do them
all at the same time on the same day?

This is a much larger issue than I had
imagined.

Robert

Another question, since all outlets seems to
be open ground what about the light switches?

There's one outlet I had put in expressly for
a window A/C but since the Klimaire mini-split
system was installed I was told not to use it
and leave it unplugged.

So instead of plugging the testor into it, it
might be better to just replace it.

I dunno, this seems to be getting a bit beyond
me. Maybe I should cal an electrician to do all
this?

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
Another question, since all outlets seems to
be open ground what about the light switches?

There's one outlet I had put in expressly for
a window A/C but since the Klimaire mini-split
system was installed I was told not to use it
and leave it unplugged.

So instead of plugging the testor into it, it
might be better to just replace it.

I dunno, this seems to be getting a bit beyond
me. Maybe I should cal an electrician to do all
this?

Robert


You should call an electrician and relay
the symptoms to that person. And get their
opinion on what could be wrong.

If the incident you had with your electrical
system, required work at the panel level, then
a mistake could have been made at the panel level.
You need someone to come in, take the metal cover
off the panel and review the wiring under there.
It could be that one wire isn't connected under
there, but you need someone *competent* to come
in and review what's been done. And explain to
you how many errors have been made.

This is no longer a matter of messing with "one outlet".

Your problem is back at the panel, and needs
a safety check of what's been done in the panel
itself.

One of my problems here, is finding competent
people to do stuff.

Paul