What exactly is copied when cloning?

Been cloning my 2 drives to have backway copies at least every 3 weeks
for years and it occured to me that I really don't know what the
cloning does.

Does it actully copy every single thing on the source disk including
deleted files and fragments of other files?

Thanks for any response.

On Fri, 07 Dec 2018 17:27:09 -0600, swalker wrote:


Been cloning my 2 drives to have backway copies at least every 3 weeks
for years and it occured to me that I really don't know what the
cloning does.

Does it actully copy every single thing on the source disk including
deleted files and fragments of other files?

Thanks for any response.

I think it depends on the software and the settings.
Clonezilla (by default) only copies referenced clusters, so the clone
image is much smaller than the original partition. (it goes on to
compress the image, but that is not what you want to know).

AOMEI gives you a choice, copy bit by bit or only files.

DD (Linux) copies every single byte, so is more suitable for
forensics. IOW, the copy will have every file fragment of the
original, which can be recovered for malware research.

If you are just making a backup, go with Clonezilla or AOMEI.

I'm sure Paul will step in with a more correct description.
And descriptions of what Macrium, Acronis and Ghost do (I've never
used them)

[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

swalker wrote:
Been cloning my 2 drives to have backway copies at least every 3 weeks
for years and it occured to me that I really don't know what the
cloning does.

Does it actully copy every single thing on the source disk including
deleted files and fragments of other files?

Thanks for any response.

Cloning makes a copy of your drive, warts and all (although there are some
options). (You can get more details via a Google search, but that's the
essence of it).

Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-12-07 18:27, swalker wrote:

Been cloning my 2 drives to have backway copies at least every 3 weeks
for years and it occured to me that I really don't know what the
cloning does.

Does it actully copy every single thing on the source disk including
deleted files and fragments of other files?

Thanks for any response.


That depends on the software and the method you've selected. There are
two general methods:

a) sector by sector copy of the partition, including empty sectors and
those that store data not read and/or displayed by the file manager.
Good for transfer of an existing partition to new hardware, hence the
term "cloning".

b) file-by-file copy, ignoring empty sectors. Good for repair of a
corrupted system, or for restoration to a prior state; and for data
archiving.

Best,


I think your (b) is a fair definition. The "smart copy"
option used in cloning, makes a map of all used clusters
and copies those. (Since "everything is a file", there's
a direct relationship between measuring in files and
measuring in clusters. Even directories are files.)
In addition, it would copy track0 and the MBR (because
you ticked the MBR box maybe).

What's important to know about (b), is "deleted" files
are not captured. If you run a tool over the smart-cloned
device, undelete won't find the candidates you
thought were there. Only the source disk has
the undelete candidates.

The sector by sector copy gets everything, and does too
good of a job. You need to modify the diskID, the BCD,
the details of booting a tiny bit, for the disk to be
in tip-top shape. Doing "dd.exe" for this, is not
the end of the story. If you do the sector by sector
by hand, you'd better be a "Rocket Scientist", as getting
the details right will take a minute or two.

You could do sector by sector, then boot a Macrium
Emergency Boot CD and do "boot repair" from there,
to modify the identifiers and clean things up. If you
do it with just the single target disk plugged in
during the repair (to its SATA port), it makes
it easier in the menu to conclude you've selected
the correct disk for repair. If you leave the two
*identical* clones connected, there will be hell to pay.

Paul

On Fri, 07 Dec 2018 20:35:27 -0500, Paul
wrote:

Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-12-07 18:27, swalker wrote:

Been cloning my 2 drives to have backway copies at least every 3 weeks
for years and it occured to me that I really don't know what the
cloning does.

Does it actully copy every single thing on the source disk including
deleted files and fragments of other files?

Thanks for any response.


That depends on the software and the method you've selected. There are
two general methods:

a) sector by sector copy of the partition, including empty sectors and
those that store data not read and/or displayed by the file manager.
Good for transfer of an existing partition to new hardware, hence the
term "cloning".

b) file-by-file copy, ignoring empty sectors. Good for repair of a
corrupted system, or for restoration to a prior state; and for data
archiving.

Best,


I think your (b) is a fair definition. The "smart copy"
option used in cloning, makes a map of all used clusters
and copies those. (Since "everything is a file", there's
a direct relationship between measuring in files and
measuring in clusters. Even directories are files.)
In addition, it would copy track0 and the MBR (because
you ticked the MBR box maybe).

What's important to know about (b), is "deleted" files
are not captured. If you run a tool over the smart-cloned
device, undelete won't find the candidates you
thought were there. Only the source disk has
the undelete candidates.

The sector by sector copy gets everything, and does too
good of a job. You need to modify the diskID, the BCD,
the details of booting a tiny bit, for the disk to be
in tip-top shape. Doing "dd.exe" for this, is not
the end of the story. If you do the sector by sector
by hand, you'd better be a "Rocket Scientist", as getting
the details right will take a minute or two.

You could do sector by sector, then boot a Macrium
Emergency Boot CD and do "boot repair" from there,
to modify the identifiers and clean things up. If you
do it with just the single target disk plugged in
during the repair (to its SATA port), it makes
it easier in the menu to conclude you've selected
the correct disk for repair. If you leave the two
*identical* clones connected, there will be hell to pay.

Paul


I had not thought about different cloning programs doing different
things.
In my case it is Acronis True Image. Anybody know what it does?
Yes I could ask Acronis but based on past experience I might or might
not get the correct answer even if I could understand what the "help"
person on the phone was saying.

swalker wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2018 20:35:27 -0500, Paul
wrote:

Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-12-07 18:27, swalker wrote:

Been cloning my 2 drives to have backway copies at least every 3 weeks
for years and it occured to me that I really don't know what the
cloning does.

Does it actully copy every single thing on the source disk including
deleted files and fragments of other files?

Thanks for any response.


That depends on the software and the method you've selected. There are
two general methods:

a) sector by sector copy of the partition, including empty sectors and
those that store data not read and/or displayed by the file manager.
Good for transfer of an existing partition to new hardware, hence the
term "cloning".

b) file-by-file copy, ignoring empty sectors. Good for repair of a
corrupted system, or for restoration to a prior state; and for data
archiving.

Best,


I think your (b) is a fair definition. The "smart copy"
option used in cloning, makes a map of all used clusters
and copies those. (Since "everything is a file", there's
a direct relationship between measuring in files and
measuring in clusters. Even directories are files.)
In addition, it would copy track0 and the MBR (because
you ticked the MBR box maybe).

What's important to know about (b), is "deleted" files
are not captured. If you run a tool over the smart-cloned
device, undelete won't find the candidates you
thought were there. Only the source disk has
the undelete candidates.

The sector by sector copy gets everything, and does too
good of a job. You need to modify the diskID, the BCD,
the details of booting a tiny bit, for the disk to be
in tip-top shape. Doing "dd.exe" for this, is not
the end of the story. If you do the sector by sector
by hand, you'd better be a "Rocket Scientist", as getting
the details right will take a minute or two.

You could do sector by sector, then boot a Macrium
Emergency Boot CD and do "boot repair" from there,
to modify the identifiers and clean things up. If you
do it with just the single target disk plugged in
during the repair (to its SATA port), it makes
it easier in the menu to conclude you've selected
the correct disk for repair. If you leave the two
*identical* clones connected, there will be hell to pay.

Paul


I had not thought about different cloning programs doing different
things.
In my case it is Acronis True Image. Anybody know what it does?

Sure, since I use it. In a nutshell, Acronis True Image allows you to
either make an image backup of a disk partition OR lets you make a clone
backup of one disk drive to another (basically a copy of your source drive),
which is what you are apparently doing, and with a few other options, as
mentioned in the program's help file (such as resizing the destination
partition, etc). So when you get done, you would have a replacement drive
in case your source drive ever failed (IF you successfully cloned your
source drive). I don't believe it does a sector to sector copy unless a) it
can't manage a smart copy, or b) you deliberately select that specific
option, but it's been awhile since I've looked.

swalker wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2018 20:35:27 -0500, Paul
wrote:

Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-12-07 18:27, swalker wrote:
Been cloning my 2 drives to have backway copies at least every 3 weeks
for years and it occured to me that I really don't know what the
cloning does.

Does it actully copy every single thing on the source disk including
deleted files and fragments of other files?

Thanks for any response.

That depends on the software and the method you've selected. There are
two general methods:

a) sector by sector copy of the partition, including empty sectors and
those that store data not read and/or displayed by the file manager.
Good for transfer of an existing partition to new hardware, hence the
term "cloning".

b) file-by-file copy, ignoring empty sectors. Good for repair of a
corrupted system, or for restoration to a prior state; and for data
archiving.

Best,

I think your (b) is a fair definition. The "smart copy"
option used in cloning, makes a map of all used clusters
and copies those. (Since "everything is a file", there's
a direct relationship between measuring in files and
measuring in clusters. Even directories are files.)
In addition, it would copy track0 and the MBR (because
you ticked the MBR box maybe).

What's important to know about (b), is "deleted" files
are not captured. If you run a tool over the smart-cloned
device, undelete won't find the candidates you
thought were there. Only the source disk has
the undelete candidates.

The sector by sector copy gets everything, and does too
good of a job. You need to modify the diskID, the BCD,
the details of booting a tiny bit, for the disk to be
in tip-top shape. Doing "dd.exe" for this, is not
the end of the story. If you do the sector by sector
by hand, you'd better be a "Rocket Scientist", as getting
the details right will take a minute or two.

You could do sector by sector, then boot a Macrium
Emergency Boot CD and do "boot repair" from there,
to modify the identifiers and clean things up. If you
do it with just the single target disk plugged in
during the repair (to its SATA port), it makes
it easier in the menu to conclude you've selected
the correct disk for repair. If you leave the two
*identical* clones connected, there will be hell to pay.

Paul


I had not thought about different cloning programs doing different
things.
In my case it is Acronis True Image. Anybody know what it does?
Yes I could ask Acronis but based on past experience I might or might
not get the correct answer even if I could understand what the "help"
person on the phone was saying.

It likely offers both options.

The problem with that, is some of this software, doesn't
actually do what it says it does.

You have to apply your forensic talents to tell
what it's doing.

For example, I enabled the sector-by-sector option on
a tool once, and the backup took ten minutes instead
of two hours. Without doing any work at all, I "know"
the tool has done the wrong thing, and was still
doing "smart copies". It copied 20GB of stuff, and not
the entire 500GB hard drive.

If you turn on that option, and it takes a lot
longer to do the transfer, that's your first
hint you're in the right ballpark.

"Creating a Sector-By-Sector Backup with Acronis Products"

https://kb.acronis.com/content/1543

I can't guess what each product does, or can do,
neither can I give assurance that any particular
version of the product I use... works properly.
I'm constantly surprised by stuff that no longer
works (like the on-again, off-again saga of my
webcam in Windows 10).

*******

When you decide a particular backup program is for you,
it's a lot of work to test it properly. There are more
than 20 backup programs out there, and 20 times a lot
of work, is too much work.

I call this process "dialing in" a backup program,
because it takes multiple days, multiple tests,
before I feel confident it isn't a total dud.
It requires testing both backups and restores,
looking in the backup image with the mounter tool,
and so on. Just to be sure it's doing what it
says on the tin.

One day here, I was bored and screwing around, and
I tried to "Verify" a backup image, and the
verify "failed". That woke me up fast! It turns
out the computer had bad RAM, and two rather large
backups were ruined (and not worth keeping). After
replacing the RAM, the backups were uneventful
after that. I still run Verifies though,
occasionally.

Paul

On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 01:20:05 -0500, Paul
wrote:

swalker wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2018 20:35:27 -0500, Paul
wrote:

Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-12-07 18:27, swalker wrote:
Been cloning my 2 drives to have backway copies at least every 3 weeks
for years and it occured to me that I really don't know what the
cloning does.

Does it actully copy every single thing on the source disk including
deleted files and fragments of other files?

Thanks for any response.

That depends on the software and the method you've selected. There are
two general methods:

a) sector by sector copy of the partition, including empty sectors and
those that store data not read and/or displayed by the file manager.
Good for transfer of an existing partition to new hardware, hence the
term "cloning".

b) file-by-file copy, ignoring empty sectors. Good for repair of a
corrupted system, or for restoration to a prior state; and for data
archiving.

Best,

I think your (b) is a fair definition. The "smart copy"
option used in cloning, makes a map of all used clusters
and copies those. (Since "everything is a file", there's
a direct relationship between measuring in files and
measuring in clusters. Even directories are files.)
In addition, it would copy track0 and the MBR (because
you ticked the MBR box maybe).

What's important to know about (b), is "deleted" files
are not captured. If you run a tool over the smart-cloned
device, undelete won't find the candidates you
thought were there. Only the source disk has
the undelete candidates.

The sector by sector copy gets everything, and does too
good of a job. You need to modify the diskID, the BCD,
the details of booting a tiny bit, for the disk to be
in tip-top shape. Doing "dd.exe" for this, is not
the end of the story. If you do the sector by sector
by hand, you'd better be a "Rocket Scientist", as getting
the details right will take a minute or two.

You could do sector by sector, then boot a Macrium
Emergency Boot CD and do "boot repair" from there,
to modify the identifiers and clean things up. If you
do it with just the single target disk plugged in
during the repair (to its SATA port), it makes
it easier in the menu to conclude you've selected
the correct disk for repair. If you leave the two
*identical* clones connected, there will be hell to pay.

Paul


I had not thought about different cloning programs doing different
things.
In my case it is Acronis True Image. Anybody know what it does?
Yes I could ask Acronis but based on past experience I might or might
not get the correct answer even if I could understand what the "help"
person on the phone was saying.

It likely offers both options.

The problem with that, is some of this software, doesn't
actually do what it says it does.

You have to apply your forensic talents to tell
what it's doing.

For example, I enabled the sector-by-sector option on
a tool once, and the backup took ten minutes instead
of two hours. Without doing any work at all, I "know"
the tool has done the wrong thing, and was still
doing "smart copies". It copied 20GB of stuff, and not
the entire 500GB hard drive.

If you turn on that option, and it takes a lot
longer to do the transfer, that's your first
hint you're in the right ballpark.

"Creating a Sector-By-Sector Backup with Acronis Products"

https://kb.acronis.com/content/1543

I can't guess what each product does, or can do,
neither can I give assurance that any particular
version of the product I use... works properly.
I'm constantly surprised by stuff that no longer
works (like the on-again, off-again saga of my
webcam in Windows 10).

*******

When you decide a particular backup program is for you,
it's a lot of work to test it properly. There are more
than 20 backup programs out there, and 20 times a lot
of work, is too much work.

I call this process "dialing in" a backup program,
because it takes multiple days, multiple tests,
before I feel confident it isn't a total dud.
It requires testing both backups and restores,
looking in the backup image with the mounter tool,
and so on. Just to be sure it's doing what it
says on the tin.

One day here, I was bored and screwing around, and
I tried to "Verify" a backup image, and the
verify "failed". That woke me up fast! It turns
out the computer had bad RAM, and two rather large
backups were ruined (and not worth keeping). After
replacing the RAM, the backups were uneventful
after that. I still run Verifies though,
occasionally.

Paul

After opening Acronis True Image I select tools/cloning and then
Manual and allow the program to adjust partitions if needed which it
normally is not needed as the 250GB, 2.5 inch SSD drives are nearly
identical in size.

Both the source and destination disk are in the computer as I have
spare bays.

According to the Acronis explanation for cloning both drives wind up
identical.

The Crucial drives have read/write speeds in excess of 500Mbs
sequentially which I assume cloning would be.

Cloning time is in the neighborhood of 15 minutes so it looks like
cloning is actually being done as opposed to partial backup.

As to the original question, I still don't know for sure what Acronis
does.

Time to move on. Not that I didn't learn something, just not what I
expected and that is OK.

Thanks to all for the responses.

On 12/8/18 11:17 AM, swalker wrote:
On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 01:20:05 -0500, Paul
wrote:

swalker wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2018 20:35:27 -0500, Paul
wrote:

Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-12-07 18:27, swalker wrote:
Been cloning my 2 drives to have backway copies at least every 3 weeks
for years and it occured to me that I really don't know what the
cloning does.

Does it actully copy every single thing on the source disk including
deleted files and fragments of other files?

Thanks for any response.

That depends on the software and the method you've selected. There are
two general methods:

a) sector by sector copy of the partition, including empty sectors and
those that store data not read and/or displayed by the file manager.
Good for transfer of an existing partition to new hardware, hence the
term "cloning".

b) file-by-file copy, ignoring empty sectors. Good for repair of a
corrupted system, or for restoration to a prior state; and for data
archiving.

Best,

I think your (b) is a fair definition. The "smart copy"
option used in cloning, makes a map of all used clusters
and copies those. (Since "everything is a file", there's
a direct relationship between measuring in files and
measuring in clusters. Even directories are files.)
In addition, it would copy track0 and the MBR (because
you ticked the MBR box maybe).

What's important to know about (b), is "deleted" files
are not captured. If you run a tool over the smart-cloned
device, undelete won't find the candidates you
thought were there. Only the source disk has
the undelete candidates.

The sector by sector copy gets everything, and does too
good of a job. You need to modify the diskID, the BCD,
the details of booting a tiny bit, for the disk to be
in tip-top shape. Doing "dd.exe" for this, is not
the end of the story. If you do the sector by sector
by hand, you'd better be a "Rocket Scientist", as getting
the details right will take a minute or two.

You could do sector by sector, then boot a Macrium
Emergency Boot CD and do "boot repair" from there,
to modify the identifiers and clean things up. If you
do it with just the single target disk plugged in
during the repair (to its SATA port), it makes
it easier in the menu to conclude you've selected
the correct disk for repair. If you leave the two
*identical* clones connected, there will be hell to pay.

Paul


I had not thought about different cloning programs doing different
things.
In my case it is Acronis True Image. Anybody know what it does?
Yes I could ask Acronis but based on past experience I might or might
not get the correct answer even if I could understand what the "help"
person on the phone was saying.

It likely offers both options.

The problem with that, is some of this software, doesn't
actually do what it says it does.

You have to apply your forensic talents to tell
what it's doing.

For example, I enabled the sector-by-sector option on
a tool once, and the backup took ten minutes instead
of two hours. Without doing any work at all, I "know"
the tool has done the wrong thing, and was still
doing "smart copies". It copied 20GB of stuff, and not
the entire 500GB hard drive.

If you turn on that option, and it takes a lot
longer to do the transfer, that's your first
hint you're in the right ballpark.

"Creating a Sector-By-Sector Backup with Acronis Products"

https://kb.acronis.com/content/1543

I can't guess what each product does, or can do,
neither can I give assurance that any particular
version of the product I use... works properly.
I'm constantly surprised by stuff that no longer
works (like the on-again, off-again saga of my
webcam in Windows 10).

*******

When you decide a particular backup program is for you,
it's a lot of work to test it properly. There are more
than 20 backup programs out there, and 20 times a lot
of work, is too much work.

I call this process "dialing in" a backup program,
because it takes multiple days, multiple tests,
before I feel confident it isn't a total dud.
It requires testing both backups and restores,
looking in the backup image with the mounter tool,
and so on. Just to be sure it's doing what it
says on the tin.

One day here, I was bored and screwing around, and
I tried to "Verify" a backup image, and the
verify "failed". That woke me up fast! It turns
out the computer had bad RAM, and two rather large
backups were ruined (and not worth keeping). After
replacing the RAM, the backups were uneventful
after that. I still run Verifies though,
occasionally.

Paul

After opening Acronis True Image I select tools/cloning and then
Manual and allow the program to adjust partitions if needed which it
normally is not needed as the 250GB, 2.5 inch SSD drives are nearly
identical in size.

Both the source and destination disk are in the computer as I have
spare bays.

According to the Acronis explanation for cloning both drives wind up
identical.

The Crucial drives have read/write speeds in excess of 500Mbs
sequentially which I assume cloning would be.

Cloning time is in the neighborhood of 15 minutes so it looks like
cloning is actually being done as opposed to partial backup.

As to the original question, I still don't know for sure what Acronis
does.

Time to move on. Not that I didn't learn something, just not what I
expected and that is OK.

Thanks to all for the responses.



Acronis does also have incremental and differential and full backups. I
always use a full backup. Disk space is cheap and I do images not
clones, that way I can keep 5 copies a month apart each.

Clones are great for replacement and yes they are fast to get back
working, but if all I have to do is just boot a usb or dvd Acronis and
restore for 15 minutes, that's not a long time to return the system to use.

swalker wrote:

As to the original question, I still don't know for sure what Acronis
does.

Time to move on. Not that I didn't learn something, just not what I
expected and that is OK.

Thanks to all for the responses.

With either of the two disks as the boot device, try

cmd # open an administrator command prompt window
diskpart
list disk
select disk 1 # salt to taste
detail disk # look for DiskID
exit

Compare the two DiskIDs and see that they're different.

That would be an example, of the "not-exact" nature
of a good clone. If the DiskID is different, and
the drive still boots, it means the BCD file on
each drive is now subtly different. And that's
a good thing, as these changes are intended to
allow the two disks to be inside the computer
at the same time, without causing problems
(offline disk in Disk Management).

Seeing a different DiskID is proof of good workmanship.

You can do

bcdedit

and see that the dump on the two different disks, is
also different (modified). The long-string-identifiers
in there will be different.

Paul

Big Al wrote:
On 12/8/18 11:17 AM, swalker wrote:
On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 01:20:05 -0500, Paul
wrote:

swalker wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2018 20:35:27 -0500, Paul
wrote:

Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-12-07 18:27, swalker wrote:
Been cloning my 2 drives to have backway copies at least every 3
weeks for years and it occured to me that I really don't know what
the cloning does.

Does it actully copy every single thing on the source disk including
deleted files and fragments of other files?

Thanks for any response.

That depends on the software and the method you've selected. There
are two general methods:

a) sector by sector copy of the partition, including empty sectors
and those that store data not read and/or displayed by the file
manager. Good for transfer of an existing partition to new hardware,
hence the term "cloning".

b) file-by-file copy, ignoring empty sectors. Good for repair of a
corrupted system, or for restoration to a prior state; and for data
archiving.

Best,

I think your (b) is a fair definition. The "smart copy"
option used in cloning, makes a map of all used clusters
and copies those. (Since "everything is a file", there's
a direct relationship between measuring in files and
measuring in clusters. Even directories are files.)
In addition, it would copy track0 and the MBR (because
you ticked the MBR box maybe).

What's important to know about (b), is "deleted" files
are not captured. If you run a tool over the smart-cloned
device, undelete won't find the candidates you
thought were there. Only the source disk has
the undelete candidates.

The sector by sector copy gets everything, and does too
good of a job. You need to modify the diskID, the BCD,
the details of booting a tiny bit, for the disk to be
in tip-top shape. Doing "dd.exe" for this, is not
the end of the story. If you do the sector by sector
by hand, you'd better be a "Rocket Scientist", as getting
the details right will take a minute or two.

You could do sector by sector, then boot a Macrium
Emergency Boot CD and do "boot repair" from there,
to modify the identifiers and clean things up. If you
do it with just the single target disk plugged in
during the repair (to its SATA port), it makes
it easier in the menu to conclude you've selected
the correct disk for repair. If you leave the two
*identical* clones connected, there will be hell to pay.

Paul


I had not thought about different cloning programs doing different
things.
In my case it is Acronis True Image. Anybody know what it does?
Yes I could ask Acronis but based on past experience I might or might
not get the correct answer even if I could understand what the "help"
person on the phone was saying.

It likely offers both options.

The problem with that, is some of this software, doesn't
actually do what it says it does.

You have to apply your forensic talents to tell
what it's doing.

For example, I enabled the sector-by-sector option on
a tool once, and the backup took ten minutes instead
of two hours. Without doing any work at all, I "know"
the tool has done the wrong thing, and was still
doing "smart copies". It copied 20GB of stuff, and not
the entire 500GB hard drive.

If you turn on that option, and it takes a lot
longer to do the transfer, that's your first
hint you're in the right ballpark.

"Creating a Sector-By-Sector Backup with Acronis Products"

https://kb.acronis.com/content/1543

I can't guess what each product does, or can do,
neither can I give assurance that any particular
version of the product I use... works properly.
I'm constantly surprised by stuff that no longer
works (like the on-again, off-again saga of my
webcam in Windows 10).

*******

When you decide a particular backup program is for you,
it's a lot of work to test it properly. There are more
than 20 backup programs out there, and 20 times a lot
of work, is too much work.

I call this process "dialing in" a backup program,
because it takes multiple days, multiple tests,
before I feel confident it isn't a total dud.
It requires testing both backups and restores,
looking in the backup image with the mounter tool,
and so on. Just to be sure it's doing what it
says on the tin.

One day here, I was bored and screwing around, and
I tried to "Verify" a backup image, and the
verify "failed". That woke me up fast! It turns
out the computer had bad RAM, and two rather large
backups were ruined (and not worth keeping). After
replacing the RAM, the backups were uneventful
after that. I still run Verifies though,
occasionally.

Paul

After opening Acronis True Image I select tools/cloning and then
Manual and allow the program to adjust partitions if needed which it
normally is not needed as the 250GB, 2.5 inch SSD drives are nearly
identical in size.

Both the source and destination disk are in the computer as I have
spare bays.

According to the Acronis explanation for cloning both drives wind up
identical.

The Crucial drives have read/write speeds in excess of 500Mbs
sequentially which I assume cloning would be.

Cloning time is in the neighborhood of 15 minutes so it looks like
cloning is actually being done as opposed to partial backup.

As to the original question, I still don't know for sure what Acronis
does.

Time to move on. Not that I didn't learn something, just not what I
expected and that is OK.

Thanks to all for the responses.



Acronis does also have incremental and differential and full backups. I
always use a full backup. Disk space is cheap and I do images not
clones, that way I can keep 5 copies a month apart each.

Clones are great for replacement and yes they are fast to get back
working, but if all I have to do is just boot a usb or dvd Acronis and
restore for 15 minutes, that's not a long time to return the system to
use.

Agreed, and it has come in handy on some occasions. One thing I won't do
is incremental backups - I feel a lot safer doing one complete backup. And
I use both imaging and cloning to get the best of both worlds. (But I
don't have 5 copies a month, which is really commendable. :-)

Speaking of Clonezilla, is it me or is it hard to use as a newbie? I can
handle Ghost (since early 2002), TruImage, O&O DiskImage, and Reflect
with their bootable discs. Clonezilla is so technical and confusing!


Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2018 17:27:09 -0600, swalker wrote:

I think it depends on the software and the settings.
Clonezilla (by default) only copies referenced clusters, so the clone
image is much smaller than the original partition. (it goes on to
compress the image, but that is not what you want to know).

AOMEI gives you a choice, copy bit by bit or only files.

DD (Linux) copies every single byte, so is more suitable for
forensics. IOW, the copy will have every file fragment of the
original, which can be recovered for malware research.

If you are just making a backup, go with Clonezilla or AOMEI.

I'm sure Paul will step in with a more correct description.
And descriptions of what Macrium, Acronis and Ghost do (I've never
used them)

[]'s
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Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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I just looked at some of the screenshots of the current "live" version, and
probably agree with you, at least at first glance. It reminds me a bit of
BootItNG, although I think the latter is more intuitive than this, but it
isn't free. I think the ones you mentioned below are a little more
intuitive, however.


Ant wrote:
Speaking of Clonezilla, is it me or is it hard to use as a newbie? I can
handle Ghost (since early 2002), TruImage, O&O DiskImage, and Reflect
with their bootable discs. Clonezilla is so technical and confusing!


Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2018 17:27:09 -0600, swalker wrote:

I think it depends on the software and the settings.
Clonezilla (by default) only copies referenced clusters, so the clone
image is much smaller than the original partition. (it goes on to
compress the image, but that is not what you want to know).

AOMEI gives you a choice, copy bit by bit or only files.

DD (Linux) copies every single byte, so is more suitable for
forensics. IOW, the copy will have every file fragment of the
original, which can be recovered for malware research.

If you are just making a backup, go with Clonezilla or AOMEI.

I'm sure Paul will step in with a more correct description.
And descriptions of what Macrium, Acronis and Ghost do (I've never
used them)

[]'s
--
Quote of the Week: "When the water rises the fish eat the ants, when the
water falls the ants eat the fish." --Thai Proverb Note: A fixed width
font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature
correctly. /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net &
http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke
ANT if replying by e-mail.
o o| |
\ _ /
( )

On 08 Dec 2018, (Ant) wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

Speaking of Clonezilla, is it me or is it hard to use as a newbie?
I can handle Ghost (since early 2002), TruImage, O&O DiskImage,
and Reflect with their bootable discs. Clonezilla is so technical
and confusing!

I just cloned a 200 GB Linux disk to a 750 GB disk using Clonezilla. I
glanced at some of the many options, but I ended up accepting most of
the suggested defaults and it worked just fine. I suppose my operation
was pretty standard and if you wanted to do something more unusual
you'd have to delve deeper into the documentation.

On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 22:39:29 -0600, (Ant) wrote:

Speaking of Clonezilla, is it me or is it hard to use as a newbie? I can
handle Ghost (since early 2002), TruImage, O&O DiskImage, and Reflect
with their bootable discs. Clonezilla is so technical and confusing!

By default (clicking OK on every option) it will clone only
the clusters in use. So it's very fast.
The only thing you really need to be wary of is when it asks
you which disk you are cloning, and what the target it. So write down
the model/serial number of the two HDs so you don't mess up. It
usually chooses the right one, but NOT always.
Clonezilla can also do multiple simultaneous backups, which is
useful if you are in a company that needs 10 HDs with exactly the same
content.
Tutorials(I always choose "advanced") :
https://clonezilla.org/show-live-doc..._to_disk_clone
https://clonezilla.org/clonezilla-li...nced-param.php
Choose -k1 if cloning to a larger new disk - which is usually the case
when upgrading. Only available in "advanced". It will make every
target partition proportionately larger.
Note cloning unused or deleted stuff is not the default.

https://clonezilla.org/show-live-doc...multiple_disks

You can "automate" the clone if you use command line
parameters, but I'd rather use the graphical interface. It's safer.
It will save the command line parameters used in the clone to
the USB.
My last clone was
/usr/sbin/ocs-onthefly -g auto -e1 auto -e2 -j2 -r -sfsck -k1 -icds
-pa poweroff -f sdb -t sda
Notice it copied sdb to sda. I had to change the source HD as
it chose the wrong one.
[]'s


Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2018 17:27:09 -0600, swalker wrote:

I think it depends on the software and the settings.
Clonezilla (by default) only copies referenced clusters, so the clone
image is much smaller than the original partition. (it goes on to
compress the image, but that is not what you want to know).

AOMEI gives you a choice, copy bit by bit or only files.

DD (Linux) copies every single byte, so is more suitable for
forensics. IOW, the copy will have every file fragment of the
original, which can be recovered for malware research.

If you are just making a backup, go with Clonezilla or AOMEI.

I'm sure Paul will step in with a more correct description.
And descriptions of what Macrium, Acronis and Ghost do (I've never
used them)

[]'s
--
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We have a new policy - Google 2012