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*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 17th 18, 12:44 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Suzuki Ichiro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*

*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*

Once you have customized the Windows 10 start menu to your liking, where is
the "archive" directory located so that you can both save it for future use
and so that you can copy it to another similarly setup system on your
network?

Googling, I find this very confusing answer:
https://superuser.com/questions/9604...-in-windows-10

Which says at one point, that there is no known location for the Windows 10
start menu:
"Windows 10's start menu uses a Microsoft proprietary database, there is no
folder."

But it also says that locations for the Windows 10 start menu a

%ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\

%AppData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\ Start Menu\Programs\

Can someone who understands this better than I do, shed light?

My main goal is to SAVE the well-organized start menu for archival and
current use on other computers (and yes, app locations are the same).

*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*
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  #2  
Old May 17th 18, 12:57 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Suzuki Ichiro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*

On 2018/05/16, Suzuki Ichiro wrote:

*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*


BTW, regarding the question of backing up the Windows 10 start menu...

There's a lot of conflicting information on the "location" of the Windows
10 start menu folder on the net, so it's not as simple an answer as you
might think (unless you already know the right answer, of course).

For example, the previous article said there were three locations, and at
the same time, it said there was no location.

However, this article doesn't even mention the proprietary hidden start
menu database that the previous article mentioned.
https://www.howto-connect.com/start-...in-windows-10/

Whereas this thread has some people saying that there are only two
locations (not three), while others on the same thread are saying it's a
proprietary database, so there is no location.
https://www.windows10forums.com/thre...location.7395/

OK. I get it. There's a ton of confusion out there, which boils down to:
1. Some say it's a proprietary database of no known location
2. Others say there are two known locations
3. Still others say there are three known locations

Which is it?

Does anyone here actually know which of those two completely conflicting
answers (both of which are all over the Internet) are correct?
  #3  
Old May 17th 18, 01:04 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
RoseW[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 startmenu?*

On 5/16/2018 7:44 PM, Suzuki Ichiro wrote:
*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*

Once you have customized the Windows 10 start menu to your liking, where is
the "archive" directory located so that you can both save it for future use
and so that you can copy it to another similarly setup system on your
network?

Googling, I find this very confusing answer:
https://superuser.com/questions/9604...-in-windows-10

Which says at one point, that there is no known location for the Windows 10
start menu:
"Windows 10's start menu uses a Microsoft proprietary database, there is no
folder."

But it also says that locations for the Windows 10 start menu a

%ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\

%AppData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\ Start Menu\Programs\

Can someone who understands this better than I do, shed light?

My main goal is to SAVE the well-organized start menu for archival and
current use on other computers (and yes, app locations are the same).

*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*


I create a Toolbar to be on the taskbar bottom right corner near the clock.
BUT....I discovered in order to have the list of Programs and the topic
folders then I had to install software for 'everybody' versus for the 'user'
Anything that goes into the User Start Men (AppData\Roaming etc) will
not show up in the Program toolbar list.
The topic folders such as PhotoStuff or Maintenance or FileMgm....do
show up in that Win10 Start menu. I never use that listing.
So for archival I suppose you could do a backup of the Program Data
Folder and store that. I'm assuming you intend to reinstall all the same
software.
  #4  
Old May 17th 18, 01:16 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 startmenu?*

Suzuki Ichiro wrote:
*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*

Once you have customized the Windows 10 start menu to your liking, where is
the "archive" directory located so that you can both save it for future use
and so that you can copy it to another similarly setup system on your
network?

Googling, I find this very confusing answer:
https://superuser.com/questions/9604...-in-windows-10

Which says at one point, that there is no known location for the Windows 10
start menu:
"Windows 10's start menu uses a Microsoft proprietary database, there is no
folder."

But it also says that locations for the Windows 10 start menu a

%ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\

%AppData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\ Start Menu\Programs\

Can someone who understands this better than I do, shed light?

My main goal is to SAVE the well-organized start menu for archival and
current use on other computers (and yes, app locations are the same).

*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*


https://www.windowscentral.com/how-b...out-windows-10

"Everything you see and customize in the Start menu is stored
in a database inside the *TileDataLayer* folder.

Navigate the following path:

C:\Users\YOUR-ACCOUNT-NAME\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database
"

What a kooky name for a database folder. You think they
could have called it "stuffwedontwantyoutohave" or something.

So apparently the idea is, you just "transplant" the entire
Database folder or something. You can tell us when you're done,
whether it was a journaled .edb JetBlue, or some other kind
of thing.

Now what doesn't make sense about that, is sure, I would expect
"Windows Store" apps to be in such a TileDataLayer, but why would
traditional Win32 items end up in there ?

Good luck, Mr.Philips.

Paul
  #5  
Old May 17th 18, 01:16 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 131
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 startmenu?*

On Thu, 17 May 2018 00:57:44 +0100, Suzuki Ichiro wrote:

On 2018/05/16, Suzuki Ichiro wrote:

*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*


BTW, regarding the question of backing up the Windows 10 start menu...

There's a lot of conflicting information on the "location" of the Windows
10 start menu folder on the net, so it's not as simple an answer as you
might think (unless you already know the right answer, of course).

For example, the previous article said there were three locations, and at
the same time, it said there was no location.

However, this article doesn't even mention the proprietary hidden start
menu database that the previous article mentioned.
https://www.howto-connect.com/start-...in-windows-10/

Whereas this thread has some people saying that there are only two
locations (not three), while others on the same thread are saying it's a
proprietary database, so there is no location.
https://www.windows10forums.com/thre...location.7395/

OK. I get it. There's a ton of confusion out there, which boils down to:
1. Some say it's a proprietary database of no known location
2. Others say there are two known locations
3. Still others say there are three known locations

Which is it?

Does anyone here actually know which of those two completely conflicting
answers (both of which are all over the Internet) are correct?


No idea what you're on about. As with all versions of windows, half is in the user folder, half is in the public folder.

--
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. -- Steven Weinberg
  #6  
Old May 17th 18, 02:13 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Suzuki Ichiro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*

On 2018/05/16, Paul wrote:

*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-b...out-windows-10
"Everything you see and customize in the Start menu is stored
in a database inside the *TileDataLayer* folder
Navigate the following path:
C:\Users\YOUR-ACCOUNT-NAME\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database


Thank you for that wonderful reference showing that there is, indeed, a
single location for the binary database files that are the actual Windows
10 start menu!

I had extensively edited the start menu just today, but the time stamps on
ALL those strange looking files are from when Windows was installed.

Cortana %HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer Enter
http://i.cubeupload.com/EkiyDD.jpg

So if that's the "real" database, the time stamps are NOT updated when you
edit the start menu.

What a kooky name for a database folder. You think they
could have called it "stuffwedontwantyoutohave" or something.


I agree that it's not only a kooky place, but it's also very natural that
well organized people would like to ARCHIVE or SAVE or BACKUP (whatever
term matters to you) the start menu so that we don't have to start all over
again (especially since all my computers do the exact same things, in
general).

So apparently the idea is, you just "transplant" the entire
Database folder or something. You can tell us when you're done,
whether it was a journaled .edb JetBlue, or some other kind
of thing.


I don't get the "JetBlue" reference, but reading this article:
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-b...out-windows-10
The process seems to be:
1. Temporarily enable the built-in Windows Administrator
Cortana Computer Management Local Users and Groups
Users Administrator (uncheck) Account is disabled
Apply OK
http://i.cubeupload.com/TkxzBC.jpg
2. Sign-out of your Windows 10 account.
3. Sign-in using another account or the built-in Administrator account.
4. File Explorer View Hidden Items
5. Navigate to C:\Users\ichiro\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\
6. Copy C:\Users\YOUR-ACCOUNT-NAME\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\
7. Paste "Database" to where you want the Windows start menu archived.

Now what doesn't make sense about that, is sure, I would expect
"Windows Store" apps to be in such a TileDataLayer, but why would
traditional Win32 items end up in there ?


I don't understand that question but I don't have Windows Store apps,
unless they were there by default.

The instructions to restore that start menu on another system a
8. On another machine, as another account or the built-in Administrator.
9. Rename the existing "Database" folder to "Database.bak".
10. Paste your new "Database" folder in its place.

Good luck, Mr.Philips.

I don't understand. Googling the phrase, I don't understand the joke.
https://duckduckgo.com/?&q=good+luck+mr+philips&ia=web
  #7  
Old May 17th 18, 02:25 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Suzuki Ichiro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*

On 2018/05/16, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

No idea what you're on about.
As with all versions of windows, half is in the user folder,
half is in the public folder.


Based on what Paul unearthed, that's wrong, which is probably why there is
so much confusion on the net when anyone asks this question.

The reference Paul found "should" work (I'm still documenting the steps in
my logs, and I'm still working on crafting a start menu strategy first).

What Paul found was that most people (almost all) don't understand where
the Windows 10 start menu resides, which, apparently, is in:
Cortana %HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer Enter
http://i.cubeupload.com/EkiyDD.jpg

What that specifically means is that these locations are, apparently,
meaningless, but that's odd that so many people "think" the menu is here.
1. %ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\

2. %AppData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\Users\x\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\

3. And maybe (according to some articles)
C:\Users\x\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch\

But, in reality, I think Paul nailed the answer when he told us that the
proprietary binary Win10 StartMenu multi-file database is located at:
%HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\
  #8  
Old May 17th 18, 02:33 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 startmenu?*

Suzuki Ichiro wrote:
On 2018/05/16, Paul wrote:

*Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-b...out-windows-10
"Everything you see and customize in the Start menu is stored
in a database inside the *TileDataLayer* folder
Navigate the following path:
C:\Users\YOUR-ACCOUNT-NAME\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database


Thank you for that wonderful reference showing that there is, indeed, a
single location for the binary database files that are the actual Windows
10 start menu!

I had extensively edited the start menu just today, but the time stamps on
ALL those strange looking files are from when Windows was installed.

Cortana %HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer Enter
http://i.cubeupload.com/EkiyDD.jpg

So if that's the "real" database, the time stamps are NOT updated when you
edit the start menu.

What a kooky name for a database folder. You think they
could have called it "stuffwedontwantyoutohave" or something.


I agree that it's not only a kooky place, but it's also very natural that
well organized people would like to ARCHIVE or SAVE or BACKUP (whatever
term matters to you) the start menu so that we don't have to start all over
again (especially since all my computers do the exact same things, in
general).

So apparently the idea is, you just "transplant" the entire
Database folder or something. You can tell us when you're done,
whether it was a journaled .edb JetBlue, or some other kind
of thing.


I don't get the "JetBlue" reference, but reading this article:
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-b...out-windows-10
The process seems to be:
1. Temporarily enable the built-in Windows Administrator
Cortana Computer Management Local Users and Groups
Users Administrator (uncheck) Account is disabled
Apply OK
http://i.cubeupload.com/TkxzBC.jpg
2. Sign-out of your Windows 10 account.
3. Sign-in using another account or the built-in Administrator account.
4. File Explorer View Hidden Items
5. Navigate to C:\Users\ichiro\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\
6. Copy C:\Users\YOUR-ACCOUNT-NAME\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\
7. Paste "Database" to where you want the Windows start menu archived.

Now what doesn't make sense about that, is sure, I would expect
"Windows Store" apps to be in such a TileDataLayer, but why would
traditional Win32 items end up in there ?


I don't understand that question but I don't have Windows Store apps,
unless they were there by default.

The instructions to restore that start menu on another system a
8. On another machine, as another account or the built-in Administrator.
9. Rename the existing "Database" folder to "Database.bak".
10. Paste your new "Database" folder in its place.

Good luck, Mr.Philips.

I don't understand. Googling the phrase, I don't understand the joke.
https://duckduckgo.com/?&q=good+luck+mr+philips&ia=web


Mr.Philips was a reference to the old TV series "Mission Impossible".
It appears I've mis-spelled it, as it's Mr.Phelps.

https://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures...ses-311029.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission:_Impossible

"Good luck, Jim"

*******

The database file is vedatamodel.edb and that's a JetBlue database
invented by Microsoft. (Windows.edb is the one used by the search
indexer and is much bigger.) The files traveling with it, are journaling
files, used to protect the database. If you shut down the power
unexpectedly, the database can regain integrity, once the journal
is played back, and any unfinished transactions are removed.
The idea of the journal is, the thing protected always has
integrity, even if the last item you were attempting to
add, got tossed in the name of integrity. It keeps the
state of the database "atomic", either in old_state
or new_state, but not in any intermediate broken state.

Nirsoft has a tool for reviewing a .edb file, but the labeling
in there doesn't really help a person decode the schema
being used.

Now, if you're transporting that from one OS to another, what
are the odds that a SID for the current OS is stored in there
somewhere ? The folder and its contents might not survive
transplantation to a new OS C: . So make sure you have
backups, or other schemes to protect against any side
effects from the experiment.

Paul
  #9  
Old May 17th 18, 03:03 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 startmenu?*

Suzuki Ichiro wrote:
On 2018/05/16, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

No idea what you're on about.
As with all versions of windows, half is in the user folder,
half is in the public folder.


Based on what Paul unearthed, that's wrong, which is probably why there is
so much confusion on the net when anyone asks this question.

The reference Paul found "should" work (I'm still documenting the steps in
my logs, and I'm still working on crafting a start menu strategy first).

What Paul found was that most people (almost all) don't understand where
the Windows 10 start menu resides, which, apparently, is in:
Cortana %HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer Enter
http://i.cubeupload.com/EkiyDD.jpg

What that specifically means is that these locations are, apparently,
meaningless, but that's odd that so many people "think" the menu is here.
1. %ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\

2. %AppData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\Users\x\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\

3. And maybe (according to some articles)
C:\Users\x\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch\

But, in reality, I think Paul nailed the answer when he told us that the
proprietary binary Win10 StartMenu multi-file database is located at:
%HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\


Well, I don't know, and you're going to figure it out.

While they could put Win32 entries into the database just
as easily as Metro entries, what are the odds of them doing
that ?

I could see both schemes being used at the same time. That's why
you have your work cut out for you. What elements are located where ?

All I've done is provided a single breadcrumb for your researches.

Paul
  #10  
Old May 17th 18, 03:18 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Suzuki Ichiro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*

On 2018/05/16, RoseW wrote:

I create a Toolbar to be on the taskbar bottom right corner near the clock.


Great minds think alike!
http://i.cubeupload.com/hk5fq8.jpg

Look at what I have located at:
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\{ichiro,Programs}
http://i.cubeupload.com/8f1ja4.jpg

That's my "cascaded menus" on my taskbar, just like you have done.

BUT....I discovered in order to have the list of Programs and the topic
folders then I had to install software for 'everybody' versus for the 'user'


I was initially confused by that statement.
But you are doing what I gave up a decade ago, which is fighting Microsoft.

I never use any Microsoft default directories if I can help it.
The reason is that apps and Microsoft often make a mess of them.

What I do is populate my own hierarchy with shortcuts.
Then I can back up that hierarchy and it works for any user I give it to.

Anything that goes into the User Start Menu (AppData\Roaming etc) will
not show up in the Program toolbar list.


Oh. You use the "Program" toolbar, where I used my "own" folder!
http://i.cubeupload.com/lnDwpf.jpg

In general, it's too difficult to fight Microsoft & program defaults.
It's much easier to simply create your own hierarchy & populate that.

Then nothing disturbs your setup, and it works for all your machines, since
you basically have the same hierarchy on all machines (why would it be
different, if you do the same stuff and have essentially the same apps).

The topic folders such as PhotoStuff or Maintenance or FileMgm....do
show up in that Win10 Start menu. I never use that listing.
So for archival I suppose you could do a backup of the Program Data
Folder and store that. I'm assuming you intend to reinstall all the same
software.


Just to explain more detail on what I'm attempting to do... I'm not *just*
trying to back up the Windows 10 Start Menu folder.
%HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\
http://i.cubeupload.com/EkiyDD.jpg

I'm trying to write up an effective plan for organizing menus on Win10.
This is just a work-in-progress unfinished rough draft of my goal.

1. Create a folder for your menus that Windows & apps won't screw up.
For example,
cd C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\.
mkdir menu

Note that this folder is at the same level as the system folder:
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\.

2. Then populate that menu folder hieararchy with your menu hierarchy:
WARNING: The Win10 StartMenu is limited to (2) bottom levels!
For example:
.\menu\archiver\compression\{7zip,winrar,izarc,etc .}
.\menu\archiver\encryption\{pgp,veracrypt,openpgp, etc.}
.\menu\browser\cmd\{curl,wget,bashshell,etc.}
.\menu\browser\torrent\{deluge,bittorrent,utorrent ,etc.}
.\menu\browser\web\{firefox,chrome,iron,etc.}
.\menu\cleaner\{ccleaner,bleachbit,jetclean,etc.}
.\menu\database\{googleearth,msaccess,cubrid,etc.}
.\menu\editor\pic\{pinta,photoshop,mspaint,etc.}
.\menu\editor\snd\{audacity,id3tag,goldwave,etc.}
.\menu\editor\txt\{vim,notepad,lemmy,etc.}
.\menu\editor\vid\{shotcut,handbrake,super,etc.}
.\menu\finance\{turbotax,taxcut,quicken,etc.}
.\menu\game\{steam,gtracing,jetpackjoyride,etc.}
.\menu\hardware\discauthor\{devede,dvdflick,bombon o,etc.}
.\menu\hardware\discburn\{imgburn,nero,cdburnerxp, etc.}
.\menu\hardware\driver\{dd,drvback,drivermax,etc.}
.\menu\hardware\hdd\{acronis,diskmon,partitionmagi c,etc.}
.\menu\hardware\ipod\{sharepod,syncios,itunes,etc. }
.\menu\hardware\printer\{hp2170,fineprint,posteraz or,etc.}
etc.

Note a Win10 StartMenu limitiation is 2 levels of hierarchy only!
That is, you can't have 3 or more levels of menu hierarchy:
.\menu\hardware\disc\author\{devede,dvdflick,bombo no,etc.}
.\menu\hardware\disc\burn\{imgburn,nero,cdburnerxp ,etc.}
But you must bring them up one level:
.\menu\hardware\discauthor\{devede,dvdflick,bombon o,etc.}
.\menu\hardware\discburn\{imgburn,nero,cdburnerxp, etc.}

3. Optional: Add that completed hierarchical menu to your taskbar.
http://i.cubeupload.com/hk5fq8.jpg

Right click on the taskbar Toolbars New toolbar... Select Folder
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\your-menu\

4. Manually populate the Win10 Start Menu groups based off of "your-menu".
a. For each program shortcut in the folder: Right click Pin to Start
b. To create a new group, slide a tile to an empty space.
c. To create a new sub-group, slide a tile on top of another tile.

WARNING: I have no idea how these folders affect this process:
%ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\

C:\Users\.\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\

%AppData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\Users\.\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\

C:\Users\.\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch\User Pinned\TaskBar\

5. Optional, add links to commonly used folder hierarchies:
C:\temp
C:\software
C:\data
C:\apps
etc.

6. Once done, back up the Win10 StartMenu binary database folder.
Temporarily enable the built-in Windows Administrator
Cortana Computer Management Local Users and Groups
Users Administrator (uncheck) Account is disabled
Apply OK
http://i.cubeupload.com/TkxzBC.jpg
Sign-out of your Windows 10 account.
Sign-in using another account or the built-in Administrator account.
File Explorer View Hidden Items
Navigate to C:\Users\ichiro\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\
Copy C:\Users\YOUR-ACCOUNT-NAME\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\
Paste "Database" to where you want the Windows start menu archived.

7. When needed, you can replace the Win10 StartMenu with your archive:
On another machine, as another account or the built-in Administrator.
Rename the existing "Database" folder to "Database.bak".
Paste your new "Database" folder in its place.

8. Is there anything else, strategically or tactically, that is missing?

--
As with all Usenet threads, enough detail should be provided to be
reproducible by others using a quick cut-and-paste efficiency - so if
something is missing - please ask about it now so all benefit from your
questions.
  #11  
Old May 17th 18, 03:32 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Suzuki Ichiro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*

On 2018/05/16, Paul wrote:

Well, I don't know, and you're going to figure it out.


At the moment, I'm crafting a STRATEGY, where the missing piece of that
strategy was BACKING up the results, which you've helped me immensely with
just by pointing out that Database directory for Windows 10 menus.

(See my note just moments ago in this thread to "RoseW" which contains my
work-in-progress Windows 10 strategy for details.)

I would LOVE for you to look over that note to add suggestions so that
everyone can benefit from our combined efforts working together to
formulate a consistent menu creation, re-use, and backup strategy.

While they could put Win32 entries into the database just
as easily as Metro entries, what are the odds of them doing
that ?


I don't really understand that, because I skipped Windows 8, so any time
someone says "Metro", I get the hives.

All I will say is that if the "Database" hive you kindly unearthed is truly
what Microsoft uses for the Win10 start menu, then what the heck are these
ancillary locations for?
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\Users\.\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\
C:\Users\.\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\Users\.\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch\User Pinned\TaskBar\
etc.

I could see both schemes being used at the same time. That's why
you have your work cut out for you. What elements are located where ?


As you can see from my reply moments ago to RoseW, my simple goal (as
always) is a well-formed STRATEGY for handling menus on any Windows 10
system that is well thought out to be EFFICIENT and ORGANIZED and which
applies to any system (the actual menu hierarchy being up to the user).

All I've done is provided a single breadcrumb for your researches.


Your "Database" breadcrumb helped a lot because the Windows 10 StartMenu
archival information on the net was confused, where, I think almost nobody
knows the technical facts of what you unearthed.

I think everyone thinks that those "other" menu hierarchies are part of the
Win10 start menu, when they appear to not have anything to do with the
Win10 StartMenu at all.

In fact, they appear to be meaningless in Win10 - but I don't know that
yet.
  #12  
Old May 17th 18, 03:43 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Suzuki Ichiro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*

On 2018/05/16, Paul wrote:

Now, if you're transporting that from one OS to another, what
are the odds that a SID for the current OS is stored in there
somewhere ?


An SID would be a bad thing, I think, but the article you referenced didn't
mention that, but it may have presumed you were archiving to put on the
same system, which probably most people would do.

Since I've been organizing Windows hierarchies for decades, I put the same
stuff in the same places on all machines, so, for me, the hierarchy is the
same on all my machines today as it was ten years ago (with minor
differences in the newer apps - but not as many as you might think).

For example, firefox has been around forever, irfanview too, imgburn also,
etc., so, in reality, we have the same programs now that we had a decade
ago, for the most part.

So the app menu hierarchy of today is no different than the app menu
hierarchy of ten and twenty years ago - which is why it works from machine
to machine (I do the same on mobile devices).

All computer users essentially do the same things - so any one hierarchy
they like will work for them on all their platforms, just as their kitchen
drawer setup works in all kitchens if they set it up the same (it's the
same dishes, the same forks, the same knives, etc.).

I find it strange that some people think it's different - machine to
machine - but it's not.
  #13  
Old May 17th 18, 07:31 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 startmenu?*

Suzuki Ichiro wrote:
On 2018/05/16, Paul wrote:

Now, if you're transporting that from one OS to another, what
are the odds that a SID for the current OS is stored in there
somewhere ?


An SID would be a bad thing, I think, but the article you referenced didn't
mention that, but it may have presumed you were archiving to put on the
same system, which probably most people would do.

Since I've been organizing Windows hierarchies for decades, I put the same
stuff in the same places on all machines, so, for me, the hierarchy is the
same on all my machines today as it was ten years ago (with minor
differences in the newer apps - but not as many as you might think).

For example, firefox has been around forever, irfanview too, imgburn also,
etc., so, in reality, we have the same programs now that we had a decade
ago, for the most part.

So the app menu hierarchy of today is no different than the app menu
hierarchy of ten and twenty years ago - which is why it works from machine
to machine (I do the same on mobile devices).

All computer users essentially do the same things - so any one hierarchy
they like will work for them on all their platforms, just as their kitchen
drawer setup works in all kitchens if they set it up the same (it's the
same dishes, the same forks, the same knives, etc.).

I find it strange that some people think it's different - machine to
machine - but it's not.


Checking my notes, I had one other tool besides a Nirsoft tool.

This is in Linux. This converts the Windows Search Indexer database,
into a series of separate files. So you can see what elements are
recorded in there. One thing I was able to piece together from
this exercise, was generate a list of files that the search indexer
had indexed (it requires reading two text files at the same time,
to build the path from the provided information).

esedbexport -m all Windows.edb

You could use Linux, to convert the tiny file in the
"database" folder, into separate files, to better understand
what exactly is in there.

Even using a hex editor, like HxD, you can get some idea
what entries are in there.

Paul
  #14  
Old May 17th 18, 12:34 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
dadiOH[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 88
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*


"Suzuki Ichiro" wrote in message
news
On 2018/05/16, Paul wrote:


All I will say is that if the "Database" hive you kindly unearthed is
truly
what Microsoft uses for the Win10 start menu, then what the heck are these
ancillary locations for?
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\Users\.\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\
C:\Users\.\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\


They hold the physical shortcuts to the programs listed on the
start/programs menu. There are at least two - one for all users another for
each user. Save them and you can replace them if need be. They have
nothing to do with the rest of the physical start menu.

C:\Users\.\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch\User
Pinned\TaskBar\


It is exactly what it says.


  #15  
Old May 17th 18, 01:27 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Suzuki Ichiro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default *Can someone shed light on how best to copy a Windows 10 start menu?*

On 2018/05/16, Paul wrote:

You could use Linux, to convert the tiny file in the
"database" folder, into separate files, to better understand
what exactly is in there.

Even using a hex editor, like HxD, you can get some idea
what entries are in there.


Interesting idea to look inside the edb file:
%HOMEPATH%\AppData\Local\TileDataLayer\Database\ve datamodel.edb
http://i.cubeupload.com/YRxNRK.jpg

Do you think the "edb" is the critical file?
It's only 1MB (literally 1024KB, while the rest are literally double that).

The file sizes in that directory seem pre-ordained.
http://i.cubeupload.com/LSBPGI.jpg
 




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