Win10

Why can I get no answer with google to the question,"is there an expiry
date on reserving win 10"?
To get it free you have almost a year, can I leave reserving till just
before cut off date for free offer?

F Murtz wrote on 8/19/2015 8:50 AM:
Why can I get no answer with google to the question,"is there an expiry date on reserving win 10"?
To get it free you have almost a year, can I leave reserving till just before cut off date for free offer?

I wouldn't use the reserve feature as there may be a time delay between the point of reserve and the time you get it.
And you might get it after the date of expire if you cut it too close.

Why not just use the Media Creation tool and upgrade on the spot, the day you want it?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10
Just pick the 32 or 64 bit version you are running.

Big Al wrote:
F Murtz wrote on 8/19/2015 8:50 AM:
Why can I get no answer with google to the question,"is there an
expiry date on reserving win 10"?
To get it free you have almost a year, can I leave reserving till just
before cut off date for free offer?

I wouldn't use the reserve feature as there may be a time delay between
the point of reserve and the time you get it. And you might get it after
the date of expire if you cut it too close.

Why not just use the Media Creation tool and upgrade on the spot, the
day you want it?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10
Just pick the 32 or 64 bit version you are running.

The question is probably academic as there is still 10 or more months it
only came up as someone told me (wrongly I think) that if I did not
reserve soon I would lose that right as there was a cutoff date on
reservation before the date for free installation.
It sounds like rubbish as I can get an ISO and install it my self
sometime in the next 10 or so months.

On 19/08/15 14:55, F Murtz wrote:
Big Al wrote:
F Murtz wrote on 8/19/2015 8:50 AM:
Why can I get no answer with google to the question,"is there an
expiry date on reserving win 10"?
To get it free you have almost a year, can I leave reserving till just
before cut off date for free offer?

I wouldn't use the reserve feature as there may be a time delay between
the point of reserve and the time you get it. And you might get it after
the date of expire if you cut it too close.

Why not just use the Media Creation tool and upgrade on the spot, the
day you want it?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10
Just pick the 32 or 64 bit version you are running.

The question is probably academic as there is still 10 or more months it
only came up as someone told me (wrongly I think) that if I did not
reserve soon I would lose that right as there was a cutoff date on
reservation before the date for free installation.
It sounds like rubbish as I can get an ISO and install it my self
sometime in the next 10 or so months.


Don't worry even you lose your right. You can use Ubuntu and there is
no expiry date on it. It is better than windows and your privacy is
protected. Windows 10 is designed to spy on people.

F Murtz wrote:
Big Al wrote:
F Murtz wrote on 8/19/2015 8:50 AM:
Why can I get no answer with google to the question,"is there an
expiry date on reserving win 10"?
To get it free you have almost a year, can I leave reserving till just
before cut off date for free offer?

I wouldn't use the reserve feature as there may be a time delay between
the point of reserve and the time you get it. And you might get it after
the date of expire if you cut it too close.

Why not just use the Media Creation tool and upgrade on the spot, the
day you want it?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10
Just pick the 32 or 64 bit version you are running.

The question is probably academic as there is still 10 or more months it
only came up as someone told me (wrongly I think) that if I did not
reserve soon I would lose that right as there was a cutoff date on
reservation before the date for free installation.
It sounds like rubbish as I can get an ISO and install it my self
sometime in the next 10 or so months.


Most people don't play games like this.

If someone in a group gives you a link, why wouldn't
you download a copy anyway ? For example, I have no
plan to install Win10 "freebie", and yet I have both
the 32 bit and 64 bit DVDs from that download link.

And the first time I tried to download them,
they were corrupted. Since each download is
unique to each customer, you can't even checksum
them and verify the download happened correctly.
(MSDN subscription DVDs would be perfectly
adequate for this purpose, and those *do* have
a fixed SHA1 checksum.) I loaded up the
(obviously too small) images I downloaded and
got complaints they weren't recognized ISO standards.
So I had to download them a second time.

If you have materials in hand, you can play as many
games as you want with GWX.

At the end of the one year "free upgrade" interval,
it won't matter what media you have in hand. The
activation server will stop accepting new activation
records on Aug1,2016, making that disc in hand
rather useless. If you have a paid CDN $249 key
in your hand, the disc could still be used to do
an install after Aug2016.

That defines the end of the upgrade period. Once an
activation record exists on the computer, with a
hardware hash of your NIC MAC address, you can do
a clean install if you want on Aug2,2016, and it
will work.

But clean installing after Aug1,2016, will only work,
if an activation record already exists. So the task
to complete in the one-year offer period, is to install
at least once on the computer you want to see running
Windows 10.

If two years from now, you've erased Windows 10, you
have disc in hand, you can re-install Windows 10, and
the activation record will still be on the server. But
if you never create an activation record before Aug1,2016,
then you won't be able to create a fresh one after that
date. You cannot "move" your "free" copy of Win10 to
other machines, without some mechanism to create
an activation record on the Microsoft server.

As an example of the complication, if you had Win7 retail,
you installed Win10 freebie, then moved Win7 to a second
computer. *something* ends up non-genuine. If your
intention was to put Win10 on that second computer,
you have to properly activate Win7 on the new machine,
and stop using Win7 on the old machine. Then, install
Win10 via upgrade install method from your DVD, so
the activation record exists on the Microsoft server.

*******

Note - say you have two machines. A Win8 qualifying
machine. And some other machine. I would download
from the above windows10 link using the second machine.
That's to avoid disturbing the GWX state information
on the qualifying machine.

The above windows10 link varies in behavior. If you
are on a modern OS, it offers you MediaCreationTool.exe,
which is a stub tool for doing the download. However,
if you connect to Microsoft with a WinXP computer,
it offers you the ISO directly, without MediaCreationTool.
Are the ISOs logically different ? Who knows...

[Checksums are useless, and not included]

Win10_English_x64.iso 4,083,853,312 bytes (Canadian version?)
Win10_English_x32.iso 3,052,865,536 bytes (Canadian version?)

These are my corrupted images. The download method
gave no indication of a failure. Woke up in the
morning, and this is what I got.

Win10_English_x64.iso 2,377,367,224 bytes
Win10_English_x32.iso 2,414,927,183 bytes

You don't have to install anything until July29,2016,
but you would want material in hand. Ideally, you
want to boot the media on your computer(s) and
verify you have the materials necessary. Say you
had a GWX failure on July29,2016 and a sad look
on your face... Be prepared.

*******

One other observation. Microsoft has mentioned disabling
Windows Update to Win10 machines, if they're "out of contact
for too long". You're required to upgrade to the latest
rolling distro release state. So even if you install
and create an activation record, an attempt to clean
install five years from now, might give no security
patches from Windows Update. The local Windows Update
wuauserv activity would likely still waste CPU cycles,
but when you get to the WU status page, it would give
you some story about being "too far out of date" or
whatever.

The wiring is like the Matrix - you're on a drip feed.
Accept the EULA, here's your drip...

I keep a copy of Win10 Insider edition here, which
is what I'm using to "share in the fun". I'm going
to have to put that disk back in the computer soon,
or my WU will be cut off :-) The latest update, someone
posted status info yesterday, it's full of bugs, so
if I boot the Insider copy right now, that's what I'll
be receiving :-) Yum.

HTH,
Paul

Paul wrote on 8/19/2015 12:49 PM:
F Murtz wrote:
Big Al wrote:
F Murtz wrote on 8/19/2015 8:50 AM:
Why can I get no answer with google to the question,"is there an
expiry date on reserving win 10"?
To get it free you have almost a year, can I leave reserving till just
before cut off date for free offer?

I wouldn't use the reserve feature as there may be a time delay between
the point of reserve and the time you get it. And you might get it after
the date of expire if you cut it too close.

Why not just use the Media Creation tool and upgrade on the spot, the
day you want it?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10
Just pick the 32 or 64 bit version you are running.

The question is probably academic as there is still 10 or more months it only came up as someone told me (wrongly I
think) that if I did not reserve soon I would lose that right as there was a cutoff date on reservation before the
date for free installation.
It sounds like rubbish as I can get an ISO and install it my self sometime in the next 10 or so months.


Most people don't play games like this.

If someone in a group gives you a link, why wouldn't
you download a copy anyway ? For example, I have no
plan to install Win10 "freebie", and yet I have both
the 32 bit and 64 bit DVDs from that download link.

And the first time I tried to download them,
they were corrupted. Since each download is
unique to each customer, you can't even checksum
them and verify the download happened correctly.
(MSDN subscription DVDs would be perfectly
adequate for this purpose, and those *do* have
a fixed SHA1 checksum.) I loaded up the
(obviously too small) images I downloaded and
got complaints they weren't recognized ISO standards.
So I had to download them a second time.

If you have materials in hand, you can play as many
games as you want with GWX.

At the end of the one year "free upgrade" interval,
it won't matter what media you have in hand. The
activation server will stop accepting new activation
records on Aug1,2016, making that disc in hand
rather useless. If you have a paid CDN $249 key
in your hand, the disc could still be used to do
an install after Aug2016.

That defines the end of the upgrade period. Once an
activation record exists on the computer, with a
hardware hash of your NIC MAC address, you can do
a clean install if you want on Aug2,2016, and it
will work.

But clean installing after Aug1,2016, will only work,
if an activation record already exists. So the task
to complete in the one-year offer period, is to install
at least once on the computer you want to see running
Windows 10.

If two years from now, you've erased Windows 10, you
have disc in hand, you can re-install Windows 10, and
the activation record will still be on the server. But
if you never create an activation record before Aug1,2016,
then you won't be able to create a fresh one after that
date. You cannot "move" your "free" copy of Win10 to
other machines, without some mechanism to create
an activation record on the Microsoft server.

As an example of the complication, if you had Win7 retail,
you installed Win10 freebie, then moved Win7 to a second
computer. *something* ends up non-genuine. If your
intention was to put Win10 on that second computer,
you have to properly activate Win7 on the new machine,
and stop using Win7 on the old machine. Then, install
Win10 via upgrade install method from your DVD, so
the activation record exists on the Microsoft server.

*******

Note - say you have two machines. A Win8 qualifying
machine. And some other machine. I would download
from the above windows10 link using the second machine.
That's to avoid disturbing the GWX state information
on the qualifying machine.

The above windows10 link varies in behavior. If you
are on a modern OS, it offers you MediaCreationTool.exe,
which is a stub tool for doing the download. However,
if you connect to Microsoft with a WinXP computer,
it offers you the ISO directly, without MediaCreationTool.
Are the ISOs logically different ? Who knows...

[Checksums are useless, and not included]

Win10_English_x64.iso 4,083,853,312 bytes (Canadian version?)
Win10_English_x32.iso 3,052,865,536 bytes (Canadian version?)

These are my corrupted images. The download method
gave no indication of a failure. Woke up in the
morning, and this is what I got.

Win10_English_x64.iso 2,377,367,224 bytes
Win10_English_x32.iso 2,414,927,183 bytes

You don't have to install anything until July29,2016,
but you would want material in hand. Ideally, you
want to boot the media on your computer(s) and
verify you have the materials necessary. Say you
had a GWX failure on July29,2016 and a sad look
on your face... Be prepared.

*******

One other observation. Microsoft has mentioned disabling
Windows Update to Win10 machines, if they're "out of contact
for too long". You're required to upgrade to the latest
rolling distro release state. So even if you install
and create an activation record, an attempt to clean
install five years from now, might give no security
patches from Windows Update. The local Windows Update
wuauserv activity would likely still waste CPU cycles,
but when you get to the WU status page, it would give
you some story about being "too far out of date" or
whatever.

The wiring is like the Matrix - you're on a drip feed.
Accept the EULA, here's your drip...

I keep a copy of Win10 Insider edition here, which
is what I'm using to "share in the fun". I'm going
to have to put that disk back in the computer soon,
or my WU will be cut off :-) The latest update, someone
posted status info yesterday, it's full of bugs, so
if I boot the Insider copy right now, that's what I'll
be receiving :-) Yum.

HTH,
Paul

I just looked at the update page on my win10TP and I see TH2 available but it's not forcing me to install it.
10525 I think?

In message , Paul writes

One other observation. Microsoft has mentioned disabling
Windows Update to Win10 machines, if they're "out of contact
for too long". You're required to upgrade to the latest
rolling distro release state. So even if you install
and create an activation record, an attempt to clean
install five years from now, might give no security
patches from Windows Update. The local Windows Update
wuauserv activity would likely still waste CPU cycles,
but when you get to the WU status page, it would give
you some story about being "too far out of date" or
whatever.

Paul, can you give any reference to this statement, and any guidance as
to what "too long" means.

This would be an absolute deal breaker for many "creative" users
including me, because machines can be tied to particular external
hardware and not connected to the internet for long periods - years in
many cases here.

I haven't seen this stated anywhere before, but I have repeatedly raised
the question of, say, 5 year delays between updates and no-one has
raised this scenario.

--
Bill

Bill wrote:
In message , Paul writes

One other observation. Microsoft has mentioned disabling
Windows Update to Win10 machines, if they're "out of contact
for too long". You're required to upgrade to the latest
rolling distro release state. So even if you install
and create an activation record, an attempt to clean
install five years from now, might give no security
patches from Windows Update. The local Windows Update
wuauserv activity would likely still waste CPU cycles,
but when you get to the WU status page, it would give
you some story about being "too far out of date" or
whatever.

Paul, can you give any reference to this statement, and any guidance as
to what "too long" means.

This would be an absolute deal breaker for many "creative" users
including me, because machines can be tied to particular external
hardware and not connected to the internet for long periods - years in
many cases here.

I haven't seen this stated anywhere before, but I have repeatedly raised
the question of, say, 5 year delays between updates and no-one has
raised this scenario.


1) Your Windows continues to run. I have not seen any statements
about "gross disable-ment" of any equipment.

2) It's your Windows Update treatment that changes. If you
remain disconnected for months, then some morning you
(for reasons unknown) say to yourself "I should really
run Windows Update", then the server *may* deliver a message
that says your copy of Windows is no longer supported.

I have not seen substantive confirmation of the policy,
in black and white.

Note that Windows 8 has kinda this policy, in that recent
security updates cannot be installed, unless you install
the "rollup" packages. They're not called Service Packs
any more, but there have been several Patch Tuesday rollups,
maybe 500MB packages, and they're like a mini-complete-update.
It could be, that (2) is a case of you being barred if
a rollup is not installed.

Now, Win10 also has the practice of not offering Updates
for download from a separate web page. How would you get
the Rollup ? I think that may be the nature of the problem,
the route to which you end up blocked. If you cannot
download a Rollup separately from the web site, it
would be hard to go "up-to-date".

It's not a big deal. Your copy of Windows probably
isn't in any worse shape than the special Enterprise
version they're making. Some of the Enterprise options
are mentioned here. One of the Enterprise versions is
so crusty, it has no Edge Browser in it. Because
that would be too unstable for long term support.
So this is sorta Win10 with training wheels.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...0itprosecurity

Enterprise LTSB

HTH,
Paul

In message , Paul writes
Bill wrote:
In message , Paul writes

One other observation. Microsoft has mentioned disabling
Windows Update to Win10 machines, if they're "out of contact
for too long". You're required to upgrade to the latest
rolling distro release state. So even if you install
and create an activation record, an attempt to clean
install five years from now, might give no security
patches from Windows Update. The local Windows Update
wuauserv activity would likely still waste CPU cycles,
but when you get to the WU status page, it would give
you some story about being "too far out of date" or
whatever.
Paul, can you give any reference to this statement, and any guidance
as to what "too long" means.
This would be an absolute deal breaker for many "creative" users
including me, because machines can be tied to particular external
hardware and not connected to the internet for long periods - years in
many cases here.
I haven't seen this stated anywhere before, but I have repeatedly
raised the question of, say, 5 year delays between updates and no-one
has raised this scenario.


1) Your Windows continues to run. I have not seen any statements
about "gross disable-ment" of any equipment.

2) It's your Windows Update treatment that changes. If you
remain disconnected for months, then some morning you
(for reasons unknown) say to yourself "I should really
run Windows Update", then the server *may* deliver a message
that says your copy of Windows is no longer supported.

I have not seen substantive confirmation of the policy,
in black and white.

Note that Windows 8 has kinda this policy, in that recent
security updates cannot be installed, unless you install
the "rollup" packages. They're not called Service Packs
any more, but there have been several Patch Tuesday rollups,
maybe 500MB packages, and they're like a mini-complete-update.
It could be, that (2) is a case of you being barred if
a rollup is not installed.

Now, Win10 also has the practice of not offering Updates
for download from a separate web page. How would you get
the Rollup ? I think that may be the nature of the problem,
the route to which you end up blocked. If you cannot
download a Rollup separately from the web site, it
would be hard to go "up-to-date".

It's not a big deal. Your copy of Windows probably
isn't in any worse shape than the special Enterprise
version they're making. Some of the Enterprise options
are mentioned here. One of the Enterprise versions is
so crusty, it has no Edge Browser in it. Because
that would be too unstable for long term support.
So this is sorta Win10 with training wheels.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...-67dc-4b2f-ac3
6-2e07d6fc29ec/windows-10-enterprise-ltsb-cant-choose-whether-to-downloa
d-or-install-windows-updates?forum=win10itprosecurity

Enterprise LTSB

HTH,

It does help, especially the Technet reference , but it doesn't make
what I should suggest that my friends should do any clearer. I had
advised one of them to stick with W7, but yesterday I ended up
Teamviewering into 2 of his machines to rescue W10.

It's also not months but years that a machine may sit there unused. A
machine here in the chain I use for archiving old audio sessions runs
Vista 64-bit and hasn't been switched on for over 2 years. Any day now I
might have some down time and get the urge to do another batch on it,
and my normal procedure has been to fire up, go online to update and
then do the work. I suppose not updating, and possibly becoming
unsupported, won't make much difference here.

It would make a difference with the old laptops I've been doing up for
friends and family. Where possible I've been taking them back to factory
setup, cleaning all the unused HD space and then letting them update.
That's what I'm not sure will be possible with W10.

--
Bill

Bill wrote:


It would make a difference with the old laptops I've been doing up for
friends and family. Where possible I've been taking them back to factory
setup, cleaning all the unused HD space and then letting them update.
That's what I'm not sure will be possible with W10.

Now, that's a good question. How will they handle that ?

It implies the availability of updated media (new ISO files),
so new copies of a rolling release can be installed. And we know
Microsoft *hates* that method.

But there is a precedent for it. For the Win7 SP1 disc, the
disc was reissued, and there was a refresh version offered later on.
I don't think the changes were significant - it's not like it had
200 Windows Update files on it or anything. Just some minor change
of some sort. But it did change the product SKU used to index
the media on web pages.

Paul

Paul wrote on 08/20/2015 11:06 AM:
Bill wrote:


It would make a difference with the old laptops I've been doing up for
friends and family. Where possible I've been taking them back to
factory setup, cleaning all the unused HD space and then letting them
update. That's what I'm not sure will be possible with W10.

Now, that's a good question. How will they handle that ?

It implies the availability of updated media (new ISO files),
so new copies of a rolling release can be installed. And we know
Microsoft *hates* that method.

But there is a precedent for it. For the Win7 SP1 disc, the
disc was reissued, and there was a refresh version offered later on.
I don't think the changes were significant - it's not like it had
200 Windows Update files on it or anything. Just some minor change
of some sort. But it did change the product SKU used to index
the media on web pages.

Paul

Precedent may prove correct in the future...but the one year free
upgrade offer may inhibit making changes if the volume of the existing
systems (across languages, architectures, and editions) telemetry
indicates successful upgrades during the one-year-free-window. The
approach could very well be to leave the media update level as is and
address any necessary updates during the install, setup, and first use.



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience