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#31
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Best Browser?
On 26/03/18 03:36, Dominique wrote:
Since a few weeks now It looks like my Firefox install is possessed by the devil. In Facebook, it ramdomly refreshes when I barely touch the mouse, but I don't really want a solution. I'd like to know which browsers should I try. Iridium Browser |
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#32
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Best Browser?
In message , Mayayana
writes: "Big Al" wrote | PS: just a friendly jab about the 'you don't do any social networking'. | Actually I didn't even get the joke. I took it literally. But not to worry. I'm not easily offended. He might have meant "you're here, aren't you?", i. e. _this_ is a social network. (Of a type [and of course I'd say quality!] yer average Twitterbook user doesn't know exists.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf To give you some indication, opinion polls suggest that people who passionately hate or love country [music] are utterly indifferent to Marmite. - Eddie Mair, Radio Times 11-17 February 2012 |
#33
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Best Browser?
On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 19:02:08 -0700, T wrote:
On 03/26/2018 04:31 AM, mechanic wrote: On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Dominique wrote: I'd like to know which browsers should I try. Edge. Dude! You are stirring the pot! Yes, I thought about that and decided it was important to help raise awareness of some underused browsers (eg Qupzilla now Falkon) and as we're on a Windows group remind people of the MSFT favourite emerging (Edge). Still I should have realised that the win7 group is populated by people living in the past :-). |
#34
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Best Browser?
"mechanic" wrote | we're on a Windows group remind people of the MSFT favourite | emerging (Edge). Emerging? That's a good one. Edge is at about 4% share, despite MS trying to force it on people. And now they're going to force it on people using Windows mail, regardless of default browser. They've put all their eggs in the Win10 basket and by doing so shot themselves in the foot. Edge is a niche browser that won't even run on their own products. (Win7/8 are still supported. Firefox still runs on XP, except the very latest version.) And now they're presenting it as essentially a Metro browser, for shopping and visiting their trinket store. It's sort of like Microsoft is saying, "We have this shiny new shovel that works beautifully, aside from the broken handle, but you can only get it if you buy our spyware wheelbarrow with no wheels." Now that's marketing. |
#35
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Best Browser?
mechanic wrote:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 19:02:08 -0700, T wrote: On 03/26/2018 04:31 AM, mechanic wrote: On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Dominique wrote: I'd like to know which browsers should I try. Edge. Dude! You are stirring the pot! Yes, I thought about that and decided it was important to help raise awareness of some underused browsers (eg Qupzilla now Falkon) and as we're on a Windows group remind people of the MSFT favourite emerging (Edge). Still I should have realised that the win7 group is populated by people living in the past :-). This group is filled with people of erudition and refinement, who are "looking for the right product". And the "data mining" of Windows 10, isn't what they're looking for. They want the convenience of using their legacy software collection, the software collection that makes them "productive". But, without the data mining a new OS would have to carry out. Look at the purchases Microsoft has made. Tried to buy Yahoo (for the 1 billion email addresses). Bought Skype, to try to build a social network out of it. (You only think it's a phone network.) Bought LinkedIn, as a means of assembling an "upper crust mailing list". Microsoft has decided, even if they don't know what they're doing, that they need a mining operation "like all the cool kids". And Windows 10 is their data mine. And somehow, Microsoft thinks they can fool people into thinking they're "nice guys". They think you can "buy a reality distortion field" at Home Depot, and just bolt it to the front facade of their business. But the truth of the matter is, "elephants have long memories". Microsoft can buy all the burned ash heaps it wants, and it's not going to buy them any friends. MSEdge isn't a "new browser". It's an integrated part of a mining engine. The entire desktop is a browser window made out of HTML and JS, and the "stuff" sitting on the desktop, is viewing ports for you to enter your personal data and track-able ideas. A real browser has an "about:blank" that actually sticks. Of all the browsers, Seamonkey is the only one that comes closest to "not being ruined". Paul |
#36
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Best Browser?
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:26:13 -0400, Wolf K
wrote: On 2018-03-27 19:32, Mark Lloyd wrote: On 03/27/2018 05:10 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote: [snip] Â*Â*Â*Â*Considering that I do not really believe that MSFT has actually "improved" my "Computer user experience" with Win7, and the number of complaints I've read about Win8, I am not exactly eager to see what it considers "new and improved" in WinX. I'd say that it's noticeably better than Win 8, but that isn't saying much. Win 7 is still a lot better than either. Firefox isn't a perfect browser, but it seems to be the least bad of them. "The least bad" is what all design is about. That's life. My view is somewhat different. We all have different likes and dislikes and do what we do in different ways. So a browser (or any other kind of software) that I might call perfect is one that you might find terrible, or vice-versa). So the manufacturer of a browser (or any other kind of software) either designs it for what it thinks the majority wants, or else designs it as a compromise between the many different views of what is perfect. The result is that nothing is perfect for everyone. So I agree with Mark Lloyd that "Firefox isn't a perfect browser, but it seems to be the least bad of them." Of all the browsers I've tried (and I've tried most, if not all, of them) FireFox is the closest one to being perfect. But if I were in charge of designing it, I would make several improvements that would get it much closer to what *I* would consider perfection. If I got those "improvements" made, would everyone think it was closer to perfection? No, of course not. There are those people (and I know several such people) who think Chrome (ugh!) is much better than FireFox, and even those who think Edge (double ugh!) is the best of them all. We're all different. |
#37
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Best Browser?
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:33:00 -0400, Wolf K
wrote: On 2018-03-28 07:32, mechanic wrote: On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 19:02:08 -0700, T wrote: On 03/26/2018 04:31 AM, mechanic wrote: On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Dominique wrote: I'd like to know which browsers should I try. Edge. Dude! You are stirring the pot! Yes, I thought about that and decided it was important to help raise awareness of some underused browsers (eg Qupzilla now Falkon) and as we're on a Windows group remind people of the MSFT favourite emerging (Edge). Still I should have realised that the win7 group is populated by people living in the past :-). You're a neomaniac. The mirror image of the Luddite. You can call him a neomaniac, if you want, but I'd prefer to call him an etidduL. g |
#38
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Best Browser?
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 11:22:16 +0700, WayFarer
wrote: On 26/03/18 03:36, Dominique wrote: Since a few weeks now It looks like my Firefox install is possessed by the devil. In Facebook, it ramdomly refreshes when I barely touch the mouse, but I don't really want a solution. I'd like to know which browsers should I try. Iridium Browser As I said moments ago in another post in this thread, we are all different. Iridium is another browser I don't like. |
#39
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Best Browser?
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:33:00 -0400, Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-03-28 07:32, mechanic wrote: On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 19:02:08 -0700, T wrote: On 03/26/2018 04:31 AM, mechanic wrote: On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Dominique wrote: I'd like to know which browsers should I try. Edge. Dude! You are stirring the pot! Yes, I thought about that and decided it was important to help raise awareness of some underused browsers (eg Qupzilla now Falkon) and as we're on a Windows group remind people of the MSFT favourite emerging (Edge). Still I should have realised that the win7 group is populated by people living in the past :-). You're a neomaniac. The mirror image of the Luddite. Best, "Neomania, defined as an obsession with the new, is a hallmark of American culture." (https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/290746) |
#40
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Best Browser?
On 29/03/18 00:00, Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 11:22:16 +0700, WayFarer wrote: On 26/03/18 03:36, Dominique wrote: Since a few weeks now It looks like my Firefox install is possessed by the devil. In Facebook, it ramdomly refreshes when I barely touch the mouse, but I don't really want a solution. I'd like to know which browsers should I try. Iridium Browser As I said moments ago in another post in this thread, we are all different. The suggestion was directed to the OP Iridium is another browser I don't like. Subjective comment i.e. it's made up entirely within your own mind. |
#41
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Best Browser?
"WayFarer" wrote
| Iridium Browser I'm curious what's so good about it. First the download page malfunctioned because I have javascript disabled. Yet the page doesn't need javascript. With CSS disabled it appeared just fine and I was able to download. Then I unpacked the download and started it up. It immediately tried to call home without asking: 88.198.180.164 Then I decided to look at the settings. (There's nothing else to look at. The "hamburger button" doesn't give me an option to show the menu bar, so there's literally nothing unless I get to the settings. Settings shows "Loading..." Periodically a window comes up that says "Untitled" failed to load. Kill it or Wait? I click Kill It. The message window sits there, unresponsive. I know that Google think they have the right to break all rules with software behavior, user preferences, etc, but I don't see why people doing an OSS version of Chrome wouldn't get their act together a bit better. It indicates to me that they really like Google's stuff and just want to make their own version of it. Given that it wants to call home and apparently won't even let me see a settings window without logging into the mother ship (!), their boasts about privacy don't seem to make sense. On the bright side, I got the portable version, so it was easy to throw away. |
#42
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Best Browser?
Mayayana wrote:
"WayFarer" wrote | Iridium Browser I'm curious what's so good about it. First the download page malfunctioned because I have javascript disabled. Yet the page doesn't need javascript. With CSS disabled it appeared just fine and I was able to download. Then I unpacked the download and started it up. It immediately tried to call home without asking: 88.198.180.164 Then I decided to look at the settings. (There's nothing else to look at. The "hamburger button" doesn't give me an option to show the menu bar, so there's literally nothing unless I get to the settings. Settings shows "Loading..." Periodically a window comes up that says "Untitled" failed to load. Kill it or Wait? I click Kill It. The message window sits there, unresponsive. I know that Google think they have the right to break all rules with software behavior, user preferences, etc, but I don't see why people doing an OSS version of Chrome wouldn't get their act together a bit better. It indicates to me that they really like Google's stuff and just want to make their own version of it. Given that it wants to call home and apparently won't even let me see a settings window without logging into the mother ship (!), their boasts about privacy don't seem to make sense. On the bright side, I got the portable version, so it was easy to throw away. The IP maps to: IP address: 88.198.180.164 hostname: ir-191.iridiumbrowser.de ISP: Hetzner Online GmbH Country: Germany So it is calling home. Not a big deal for a Chromium based browser. For a Chromium family browser, the URL in that call home should have a unique identifier. My copy of SRWare Iron wastes no time reporting in to its site. I don't see how anyone can reasonably expect a source tree with 600,000 files in it, and God knows how many developers, how a couple guys in their moms basement can modify the source for that, and make something "strikingly different". And if investors have any money to throw at an idea like this (so you can hire 200 developers to really make something out of it), they expect a return on their investment. And the only way to do that is with datamining or advertising tricks. This makes the whole browser selection process rather simple. 1) Determine which "family" it comes from. 2) Assume minimal changes. 3) Not be surprised when it behaves just like the master it's cloned from. And that's why threads like this ones, are doomed from the start. It's like asking if there is a "good, mass produced car". And getting into arguments about whether the chrome plating on an Audi is thicker than on a Lexus. The general answer to the question is, "they're all designed the same way, to maximize profit". That's why you'll find a good mix of brands, rusting out in some farmers back 40 acres. Could they make a vehicle that lasts ? They could. But what kind of businessman is going to do that ? Now, this is an example of a vehicle that lasts. It was built in 1946. It's a diesel electric locomotive (little more than a yard engine), but it still goes. And the guy who maintained it, spent his whole career doing so. Think how many times you'd have to take apart that diesel and rebuild it, between 1946 and 2011. The guy who says it's still fit to run, is 93 years old. https://i.cbc.ca/1.4590218.152184668...pg?imwidth=752 You're not going to find a browser-equivalent to that. Just the fact that there's an HTML5 standard and a DOM that hoards data, should tell you the game isn't on the level, and there's really "no escape". We're arguing over the brightness of the paint, and how soft the seats feel. Paul |
#43
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Best Browser?
"Paul" wrote
| 3) Not be surprised when it behaves just like the master | it's cloned from. | I can see your point, but their website homepage starts with a giant heading: "A browser securing your privacy. That's it." Under that it says: "Automatic transmission of partial queries, keywords and metrics to central services is prevented and only occurs with the approval of the user" Yet the download page wants to track me with script and the browser tries to call home without asking. I don't know whether they're cynical, stupid, or maybe like the lamebrain Linux fans who say it's OK that Linux auto-updates without asking because "they're the good guys". |
#44
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Best Browser?
On 29/03/18 08:20, Mayayana wrote:
"WayFarer" wrote | Iridium Browser I'm curious what's so good about it. I don't know to respond to subjectivities. [quote] I'd like to know which browsers should I try [unquote] I was responding to an specific request made by the OP. |
#45
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Best Browser?
WayFarer wrote:
On 29/03/18 08:20, Mayayana wrote: "WayFarer" wrote | Iridium Browser I'm curious what's so good about it. I don't know to respond to subjectivities. [quote] I'd like to know which browsers should I try [unquote] I was responding to an specific request made by the OP. To sort browsers, there should be some kind of tests. (And no, I'm not considering "speed tests" to be one of those. The P.R. material on "browser speed", seeks to deflect out attention from stuff that matters.) Of all the tools here, only one had a supercookie test. And the supercookie is how they show targeted advertising, like me continuing to see Analog Devices adverts right after I tried to track down an Analog Devices *sound driver*. https://www.ghacks.net/2015/12/28/th...resource-list/ This is how you build up a profile on someone, until the day arrives when they enter some self-identifying information into the browser. https://samy.pl/evercookie/ And these are the things we don't want browsers doing, and they *all* do it - to be standards compliant. All you're doing is picking the car with the nice paint job, and soft vinyl seats. The cars aren't different underneath. So if you want a browser with a menu bar, pick Firefox. If you want a browser without a menu bar, pick Chrome. And pick a "vanity name" for your browser, to suit your "personality". Now I like Iceweasel for some reason, because it seems to be in keeping with the nature of browser design. Paul |
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