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#46
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Best Browser?
On 29/03/18 09:34, Paul wrote:
WayFarer wrote: On 29/03/18 08:20, Mayayana wrote: "WayFarer" wrote | Iridium Browser Â* I'm curious what's so good about it. I don't know to respond to subjectivities. [quote] I'd like to know which browsers should I try [unquote] I was responding to an specific request made by the OP. To sort browsers, there should be some kind of tests. (And no, I'm not considering "speed tests" to be one of those. The P.R. material on "browser speed", seeks to deflect out attention from stuff that matters.) Of all the tools here, only one had a supercookie test. And the supercookie is how they show targeted advertising, like me continuing to see Analog Devices adverts right after I tried to track down an Analog Devices *sound driver*. https://www.ghacks.net/2015/12/28/th...resource-list/ This is how you build up a profile on someone, until the day arrives when they enter some self-identifying information into the browser. https://samy.pl/evercookie/ And these are the things we don't want browsers doing, and they *all* do it - to be standards compliant. All you're doing is picking the car with the nice paint job, and soft vinyl seats. The cars aren't different underneath. So if you want a browser with a menu bar, pick Firefox. If you want a browser without a menu bar, pick Chrome. And pick a "vanity name" for your browser, to suit your "personality". Now I like Iceweasel for some reason, because it seems to be in keeping with the nature of browser design. Â*Â* Paul Good info, thanks. |
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#47
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Best Browser?
Paul wrote:
mechanic wrote: On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 19:02:08 -0700, T wrote: On 03/26/2018 04:31 AM, mechanic wrote: On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Dominique wrote: I'd like to know which browsers should I try. Edge. Dude! You are stirring the pot! Yes, I thought about that and decided it was important to help raise awareness of some underused browsers (eg Qupzilla now Falkon) and as we're on a Windows group remind people of the MSFT favourite emerging (Edge). Still I should have realised that the win7 group is populated by people living in the past :-). This group is filled with people of erudition and refinement, who are "looking for the right product". And the "data mining" of Windows 10, isn't what they're looking for. They want the convenience of using their legacy software collection, the software collection that makes them "productive". But, without the data mining a new OS would have to carry out. Look at the purchases Microsoft has made. Tried to buy Yahoo (for the 1 billion email addresses). Bought Skype, to try to build a social network out of it. (You only think it's a phone network.) Bought LinkedIn, as a means of assembling an "upper crust mailing list". Microsoft has decided, even if they don't know what they're doing, that they need a mining operation "like all the cool kids". And Windows 10 is their data mine. And somehow, Microsoft thinks they can fool people into thinking they're "nice guys". They think you can "buy a reality distortion field" at Home Depot, and just bolt it to the front facade of their business. But the truth of the matter is, "elephants have long memories". Microsoft can buy all the burned ash heaps it wants, and it's not going to buy them any friends. MSEdge isn't a "new browser". It's an integrated part of a mining engine. The entire desktop is a browser window made out of HTML and JS, and the "stuff" sitting on the desktop, is viewing ports for you to enter your personal data and track-able ideas. A real browser has an "about:blank" that actually sticks. _Of all the browsers, Seamonkey is the only one that comes __ __closest to "not being ruined". _ Paul Here! Here!!! ITA with your message, especially the last comment. bj |
#48
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Best Browser?
"WayFarer" wrote
| | Iridium Browser | | I'm curious what's so good about it. | | I don't know to respond to subjectivities. | What's so complicated? You recommended Iridium. I looked into it and didn't like what I saw. So I'm wondering why you recommended it. You can define your opinion as objective or not. That's fine with me. They're both your subjective and my nominally objective, neither of which is here nor there. |
#49
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Best Browser?
In message , Wolf K
writes: On 2018-03-27 19:19, Big Al wrote: [] I view products that 5 friends of mine think are fabulous and want me to look at and/or comment on.** SO now I get targeted ads just for looking. *It's hell ain't it. That wasn't your friends sending the post, it was a bot. The only certain way to contact your friends is the phone or snail mail. I like snail mail. [] I would too, except that - in UK at least - it is now a significant cost, compared to electronic: the cheapest second-class stamp (see https://www.royalmail.com/personal/uk-delivery/stamps/) is 58p (small, "from" 79p large; first class 67p and "from" 1.01 large). -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf No sense being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway. - Penny Mayes, UMRA, 2014-August |
#50
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Best Browser?
In message , Ken Blake
writes: On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:26:13 -0400, Wolf K wrote: On 2018-03-27 19:32, Mark Lloyd wrote: [] Firefox isn't a perfect browser, but it seems to be the least bad of them. "The least bad" is what all design is about. That's life. My view is somewhat different. We all have different likes and dislikes and do what we do in different ways. So a browser (or any other kind of software) that I might call perfect is one that you might find terrible, or vice-versa). So the manufacturer of a browser (or any other kind of software) either designs it for what it thinks the majority wants, or else designs it as a compromise between the many different views of what is perfect. The result is that nothing is perfect for everyone. [] You also have to take into account, for free software (are there any non-free browsers left? I've been at this long enough to remember when Netscape [now Firefox] wasn't free; the last one I remember being not free was Opera, but I think that now is), that the "majority" whose wants are considered is the majority of _sponsors_, rather than _users_. (The users' desires are taken into account only to the extent that they're considered when market share drops _significantly_.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf No sense being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway. - Penny Mayes, UMRA, 2014-August |
#51
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Best Browser?
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote
| You also have to take into account, for free software that the "majority" whose | wants are considered is the majority of _sponsors_, rather than _users_. Firefox is open source. It's allegedly a non-profit. Some others are as well. Unfortunately, they made a deal with the devil in accepting hundreds of millions of dollare per year from Google in exchange for giving them the search bar. I don't know anything as an insider, but it looks to me like there's still a lot of idealism at Mozilla, and they don't exactly have sponsors. They've just got hooked on a *very* big income and are forgetting their roots. Another factor is that they're in an awkward spot. Along the lines of what Ken is saying, they could decide not to remove settings, not to enable geo-tracking, etc. They could make various changes to provide more options and easier configuration. But simple shopping apps is the way the market is going. Most people prefer Google crap because it works well, it's simple, and it's easy to use across devices. On the other hand, there's nothing stopping Mozilla from issuing 3 or 4 flavors, aimed at various people. It's not as though they have to feed money to stockholders. A friend just sent me what she thought was an ominous article yesterday, about how creepy Facebook and Google are. She sent it from her gmail account, on her iPhone. She's probably using Chrome because Google somehow shoehorned it onto her devices when she wasn't looking. I don't know. But she probably doesn't know either. |
#52
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Best Browser?
On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 07:22:50 +0700, WayFarer
wrote: On 29/03/18 00:00, Ken Blake wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 11:22:16 +0700, WayFarer wrote: On 26/03/18 03:36, Dominique wrote: Since a few weeks now It looks like my Firefox install is possessed by the devil. In Facebook, it ramdomly refreshes when I barely touch the mouse, but I don't really want a solution. I'd like to know which browsers should I try. Iridium Browser As I said moments ago in another post in this thread, we are all different. The suggestion was directed to the OP Iridium is another browser I don't like. Subjective comment i.e. it's made up entirely within your own mind. Exactly right. As I pointed out, we are all different and like different things. |
#53
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Best Browser?
In message , Mayayana
writes: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote | You also have to take into account, for free software that the "majority" whose | wants are considered is the majority of _sponsors_, rather than _users_. Firefox is open source. It's allegedly a non-profit. Some others are as well. In theory, yes. Unfortunately, for something this big, there are very few of us with the time, inclination, skills, tools (compilers), and machines (I understand it needs quite a big machine to compile it) to actually work on it; I know you are a lot more still into software creation than I am (since I've used some of your utilities!), but even you I suspect wouldn't get into working on a browser. (A thankless task at best, too, since users are unforgiving! [Including me at times, I'm sure!]) Unfortunately, they made a deal with the devil in accepting hundreds of millions of dollare per year from Google in exchange for giving them the search bar. I don't know anything as an insider, but it looks to me like there's still a lot of idealism at Mozilla, and they don't exactly have sponsors. They've just got hooked on a *very* big income and are forgetting their roots. Similar _practical_ result, unfortunately. I'm glad you've seen signs of idealism there; I haven't, really, for some while, to the extent that I now rarely post in their newsgroup. Another factor is that they're in an awkward spot. Along the lines of what Ken is saying, they could decide not to remove settings, not to enable geo-tracking, etc. They could make various changes to provide more options and easier configuration. But simple shopping apps is the way the market is going. Most people prefer Google crap because it works well, it's simple, and it's easy to use across devices. I wouldn't mind the Google search bar, and all the rest, being there - even as the default (as you say, that's what _most_ users _do_ want, and for that purpose it _does_ work well); it's just the increasing obscurity, and eventual removal of, the ability to remove/change certain settings (third-party cookies being the most obvious example). On the other hand, there's nothing stopping Mozilla from issuing 3 or 4 flavors, aimed at various people. It's not as though they have to feed money to stockholders. Hmm. Is there? Like yourself not being an insider, I can't know, but I have a strong _feeling_ that the Google (etc.) sponsorship might be conditional on _not_ doing that. A friend just sent me what she thought was an ominous article yesterday, about how creepy Facebook and Google are. She sent it from her gmail account, on her iPhone. (-: [Did you point the irony out to her?] She's probably using Chrome because Google somehow shoehorned it onto her devices when she wasn't looking. I don't know. But she probably doesn't know either. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf As individuals, politicians are usually quite charming, so it is quite hard to dislike them, but in most cases, it is worth making the effort. - Mark Williams (UMRA), 2013-4-26 |
#54
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Best Browser?
chicagofan wrote:
Paul wrote: mechanic wrote: On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 19:02:08 -0700, T wrote: On 03/26/2018 04:31 AM, mechanic wrote: On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 20:36:56 -0000 (UTC), Dominique wrote: I'd like to know which browsers should I try. Edge. Dude! You are stirring the pot! Yes, I thought about that and decided it was important to help raise awareness of some underused browsers (eg Qupzilla now Falkon) and as we're on a Windows group remind people of the MSFT favourite emerging (Edge). Still I should have realised that the win7 group is populated by people living in the past :-). This group is filled with people of erudition and refinement, who are "looking for the right product". And the "data mining" of Windows 10, isn't what they're looking for. They want the convenience of using their legacy software collection, the software collection that makes them "productive". But, without the data mining a new OS would have to carry out. Look at the purchases Microsoft has made. Tried to buy Yahoo (for the 1 billion email addresses). Bought Skype, to try to build a social network out of it. (You only think it's a phone network.) Bought LinkedIn, as a means of assembling an "upper crust mailing list". Microsoft has decided, even if they don't know what they're doing, that they need a mining operation "like all the cool kids". And Windows 10 is their data mine. And somehow, Microsoft thinks they can fool people into thinking they're "nice guys". They think you can "buy a reality distortion field" at Home Depot, and just bolt it to the front facade of their business. But the truth of the matter is, "elephants have long memories". Microsoft can buy all the burned ash heaps it wants, and it's not going to buy them any friends. MSEdge isn't a "new browser". It's an integrated part of a mining engine. The entire desktop is a browser window made out of HTML and JS, and the "stuff" sitting on the desktop, is viewing ports for you to enter your personal data and track-able ideas. A real browser has an "about:blank" that actually sticks. _Of all the browsers, Seamonkey is the only one that comes __ __closest to "not being ruined". _ Paul Here! Here!!! ITA with your message, especially the last comment. bj LOL!!! I got so excited over someone complimenting SeaMonkey ... I wrote "here" instead of "hear" in my exclamation. :-[ Excuse please ... bj |
#55
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Best Browser?
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mayayana writes: "Paul" wrote | Of all the browsers, Seamonkey is the only one that comes | closest to "not being ruined". Could you explain that? I've used FF and Pale Moon for years. I've only barely looked at Seamonkey. I'd assumed it was just FF with email. So had I. (Not a bad idea; I used to use - at work - Netscape, for both news and email; it worked well. Until corporate made it all only work with variations of Outlook, and eventually killed news access altogether.) I don't know the details of the changeover, but when I lost Netscape, I got SeaMonkey which I thought was it's replacement, and my [combination] browser is not like Firefox to me. I downloaded Firefox separately, but didn't like the constant changes. I just keep an outdated copy for a backup. I don't know what Mozilla group or programmers are keeping SM alive, but I hope they don't stop. bj |
#56
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Best Browser?
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:54:06 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
So the manufacturer of a browser (or any other kind of software) either designs it for what it thinks the majority wants, or else designs it as a compromise between the many different views of what is perfect. The result is that nothing is perfect for everyone. My oh my, Steve Jobs where are you now that we need you? |
#57
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Best Browser?
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote
| A friend just sent me what she thought was an | ominous article yesterday, about how creepy Facebook | and Google are. She sent it from her gmail account, | on her iPhone. | | (-: [Did you point the irony out to her?] | Yes, jokingly. Like most people (including the article author) she regards the news about Google as a kind of gossip, without recognizing that she doesn't have to allow it. Whatayagonnado, right? They got ya comin' and goin'..... |
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