A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Microsoft Windows XP » Windows Service Pack 2
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Corporate XP and SP2



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old August 16th 04, 02:49 AM
Testy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2

If one has any moral fiber at all the analysis would lead one to realize
theft is theft.

Testy

"Shane" wrote in message
...
You need to analyse this stuff unemotionally. Rationally.


Shane


"Testy" wrote in message
...
That is the greatest piece of rationalization I have ever read! I guess
it
makes you sleep better at night believing you are not a thief.

Testy

"Al Smith" wrote in message
...
In the case you describe, theft is from Microsoft.
The business may also have a problem with Microsoft because they are

not
adequately controlling the licenses.
So in fact the company stands to lose as well.
The company very well may lose something, especially if Microsoft
determines they are not protecting the licenses adequately.
In that very real possible situation, the company may lose "the
ability
to use it."

The theft isn't from Microsoft, because Microsoft hasn't lost anything.
Therefore no theft has occurred. There is no particular reason to

suppose
that a person using a pirated version of the OS would have gone out and
bought the OS, had the pirate edition not been available. This might be
the case, but it also might *not* be the case. And there is no way to
demonstrate that it is the case. Besides, theft is taking something
real
that already exists, not potentially depriving someone of possible,
speculative, additional future earnings.

When a pirated edition of Windows is used, it is copied. Nothing
happens
to the original edition. It does not cease to be. Microsoft does not

lose
the money it made by selling the original edition. Copying is not
theft.
It may involve an infringement of the Microsoft license agreement, but
that is not theft.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 8/11/2004






---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 8/11/2004


Ads
  #32  
Old August 16th 04, 02:52 AM
Shane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2

Like I said, *unemotionally*. This is about Law and Ethics. Get emotional
and you lose the plot.


Shane


"Testy" wrote in message
...
If one has any moral fiber at all the analysis would lead one to realize
theft is theft.

Testy

"Shane" wrote in message
...
You need to analyse this stuff unemotionally. Rationally.


Shane


"Testy" wrote in message
...
That is the greatest piece of rationalization I have ever read! I guess
it
makes you sleep better at night believing you are not a thief.

Testy

"Al Smith" wrote in message
...
In the case you describe, theft is from Microsoft.
The business may also have a problem with Microsoft because they are

not
adequately controlling the licenses.
So in fact the company stands to lose as well.
The company very well may lose something, especially if Microsoft
determines they are not protecting the licenses adequately.
In that very real possible situation, the company may lose "the
ability
to use it."

The theft isn't from Microsoft, because Microsoft hasn't lost

anything.
Therefore no theft has occurred. There is no particular reason to

suppose
that a person using a pirated version of the OS would have gone out

and
bought the OS, had the pirate edition not been available. This might

be
the case, but it also might *not* be the case. And there is no way to
demonstrate that it is the case. Besides, theft is taking something
real
that already exists, not potentially depriving someone of possible,
speculative, additional future earnings.

When a pirated edition of Windows is used, it is copied. Nothing
happens
to the original edition. It does not cease to be. Microsoft does not

lose
the money it made by selling the original edition. Copying is not
theft.
It may involve an infringement of the Microsoft license agreement,

but
that is not theft.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 8/11/2004






---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 8/11/2004




  #33  
Old August 16th 04, 03:08 AM
Rock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2

Shane wrote:

"Rock" wrote in message
...

Al Smith wrote:


There is no such thing as "Corporate edition"


Although the pirates have used that term describing their stolen
licenses.


There is no such thing as a "stolen" license. You either have a
license or you don't.



If you don't purchase a license, but are using somebody else's then by
definition you have "stolen" it. Stealing is taking something that
belongs to somebody else.


Stealing requires that something be removed from one possessor illegally
and against his will, and given over to the use of another possessor.
When someone uses a corporate license, the company that has purchased
that license hasn't lost it, or the ability to use it. Nothing has been
taken from them. Hence, no theft has occurred.


Theft consists of many things, not just what you mention --- Theft by
fraud, deception or false pretenses, theft of intellectual property,
ideas, etc, etc. It doesn't hinge on whether one party looses the
ability to use something. That is an element of certain types of theft,
but not all.



There should be more awareness of the dividing line between theft/crime as
defined by an agreed system of ethics and that as defined by corporate and
political lobbyists. The two rarely converge but a depressingly large no. of
people let professional liars define it for them.


Shane



I was talking about criminal theft, as defined by various statutes and
prosecuted as such.

  #34  
Old August 16th 04, 03:54 AM
Shane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2

I was talking about criminal theft, as defined by various statutes and
prosecuted as such.


Right. Made by politicians and their contributors. Noticed how politicians
aree almost all lawyers these days? Professional liars. Right and wrong is
something you decide for yourself in the absense of statutes. If you're not
talking about right and wrong you're talking about doing as you're told and
confusing the two.


Shane


  #35  
Old August 16th 04, 04:07 AM
hermes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:

The Volume License (corporate) is not "crippled" at all.
Volume License is identical to Windows XP Pro that is available
through retail channels without activation.
Whatever your source, it is incorrect.



Correct me if I'm wrong about what you said, Frank. Jupiter, Frank
seems to have stated his opinion. How can his opinion about the setup
of Windows XP be wrong. Opinions are not wrong or right, this is why
they are opinions.

--
hermes
DRM sux! Treacherous Computing kills our virtual civil liberties!
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/index.html
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
http://anti-dmca.org/
http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/unintended_consequences.php

Windows XP crashed.
I am the Blue Screen of Death.
No one hears your screams
  #36  
Old August 16th 04, 05:11 AM
Shenan Stanley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2

Rock wrote:
I was talking about criminal theft, as defined by various statutes
and prosecuted as such.


Shane wrote:
Right. Made by politicians and their contributors. Noticed how
politicians aree almost all lawyers these days? Professional liars.
Right and wrong is something you decide for yourself in the absense
of statutes. If you're not talking about right and wrong you're
talking about doing as you're told and confusing the two.



Shane,

If I copy your identification, modify them in such a way so I pass as you
and start doing so - was anything stolen?

--
- Shenan -
--
The information is provided "as is", with no guarantees of
completeness, accuracy or timeliness, and without warranties of any
kind, express or implied. In other words, read up before you take any
advice - you are the one ultimately responsible for your actions.


  #37  
Old August 16th 04, 05:28 AM
Al Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2

The fact there is a violation of the license is a loss even if you do
not see the loss.

If you can not see the potential loss for either party in this
instance you are to far gone and what you need is far outside the
scope of this newsgroup.


A "potential" loss is a hypothetical event. I may potentially lose
an excellent business deal if somebody stops me in the street and
talks to me for fifteen minutes, delaying me. You don't see anyone
compensating me for this potential loss, do you? Potentially, I
could lose a million dollars by not buying a lottery ticket this
week. I repeat what I said: Microsoft loses nothing when somebody
copies a piece of their software. Most often, those who pirate
software would not pay full price for it in any case. Using an
unpurchased copy of MS software is a violation of Microsoft's
EULA, but it is not theft. There's a difference.
  #38  
Old August 16th 04, 05:35 AM
Al Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2

MS does lose something when you steal a volume license key - they lose
the revenue that is do them when that installation of that Volume
License is not paid for.


Microsoft would only lose future revenue under a very specific
circumstance -- if the person using a free copy of the OS would
definitely have purchased the OS, had he not been able to get the
free copy. This is usually not the case. And Microsoft would never
lose existing monies or goods (ie, real money), because the
copying of software does not in any way diminish or hinder the
software that already exists. Nobody is deprived of anything when
a copy is made. On the contrary, somebody is enriched by the act.
  #39  
Old August 16th 04, 05:39 AM
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2

This does not sound like opinion:
"The installation is crippled anyway, almost unusable."

If I misread as Shenan suspects it is "crippled" in that respect.
But other than that it is the same.
I do not see much room for opinion assuming a successful installation
with a valid Product Key.
Frank can clarify exactly what was meant.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"hermes" wrote in message
...
Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:

The Volume License (corporate) is not "crippled" at all.
Volume License is identical to Windows XP Pro that is available
through retail channels without activation.
Whatever your source, it is incorrect.


Correct me if I'm wrong about what you said, Frank. Jupiter, Frank
seems to have stated his opinion. How can his opinion about the
setup of Windows XP be wrong. Opinions are not wrong or right, this
is why they are opinions.

--
hermes
DRM sux! Treacherous Computing kills our virtual civil liberties!
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/index.html
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
http://anti-dmca.org/
http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/unintended_consequences.php

Windows XP crashed.
I am the Blue Screen of Death.
No one hears your screams



  #40  
Old August 16th 04, 05:53 AM
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2

You say "Most often, those who pirate software would not pay full
price for it in any case."
I would say they would steal at any price because they are thieves and
stealing is in the nature of thieves.
Again you use an old excuse the thieves lamely use to justify their
wrong behaviour.

You example of the lottery ticket is not even close to relevant.
You do not own the lottery ticket but Microsoft owns Windows.
However people do sue and collect for being unduly delayed, but you
need to prove loss.
Again you have no loss so your example fall apart even as you make it.

You quibble with words as if you have no ethics, do you?
Using something without the owners permission is wrong.
If the owner requires you to pay to use and you don't, I would call
you a thief.

"Microsoft loses nothing when somebody copies a piece of their
software."
Exactly what do you mean by that?
Does "somebody" copy them and then do nothing with them?
I guess you may be correct there since the person is really
demonstrating stupidity.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Al Smith" wrote in message
news:XJWTc.95734$Np3.4611048@ursa- A "potential" loss is a
hypothetical event. I may potentially lose
an excellent business deal if somebody stops me in the street and
talks to me for fifteen minutes, delaying me. You don't see anyone
compensating me for this potential loss, do you? Potentially, I
could lose a million dollars by not buying a lottery ticket this
week. I repeat what I said: Microsoft loses nothing when somebody
copies a piece of their software. Most often, those who pirate
software would not pay full price for it in any case. Using an
unpurchased copy of MS software is a violation of Microsoft's EULA,
but it is not theft. There's a difference.



  #41  
Old August 16th 04, 06:20 AM
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2

Al;
Your use of the word free is incorrect.
Free suggests it was given to you.
In the case you are speaking something is being taken without the
owners consent.
Nothing is given.
As long as you insist in misusing basic English to justify unethical
behaviour, is understandable why you lack basic understanding of
honesty.

You also say "This is usually not the case."
"usually"? So now it appears you believe some of those involved are
unethical.
Please give DETAILS how EXACTLY the difference is determined by
someone other than the dishonest person?
Easy...was it acquired with the owners consent?
However I am sure you will twist reality here also/

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Al Smith" wrote in message
news:_PWTc.95736$Np3.4611187@ursa- Microsoft would only lose future
revenue under a very specific
circumstance -- if the person using a free copy of the OS would
definitely have purchased the OS, had he not been able to get the
free copy. This is usually not the case. And Microsoft would never
lose existing monies or goods (ie, real money), because the copying
of software does not in any way diminish or hinder the software that
already exists. Nobody is deprived of anything when a copy is made.
On the contrary, somebody is enriched by the act.



  #42  
Old August 16th 04, 06:41 AM
Al Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2

You quibble with words as if you have no ethics, do you?
Using something without the owners permission is wrong.
If the owner requires you to pay to use and you don't, I would call
you a thief.


Well, JJ, what I don't do is insult people when I carry on a
discussion on Usenet. I express my opinions.
  #43  
Old August 16th 04, 06:48 AM
Rock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2

Shane wrote:

I was talking about criminal theft, as defined by various statutes and
prosecuted as such.



Right. Made by politicians and their contributors. Noticed how politicians
aree almost all lawyers these days? Professional liars. Right and wrong is
something you decide for yourself in the absense of statutes. If you're not
talking about right and wrong you're talking about doing as you're told and
confusing the two.


Shane



Yes right and wrong have a place along with legal and not legal, ethics
and morals. What is not right isn't always in violation of a criminal
statute, and some things which are right are still somehow illegal in
some places. It's the blending of right/ethical/moral and legal that
makes a framework to guide behavior. One of the great supreme court
justices said we are a country of laws, not of men. My reply was
strictly to correct the definition of theft presented.

  #44  
Old August 16th 04, 06:58 AM
Shane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2


"Shenan Stanley" wrote in message
...
Rock wrote:
I was talking about criminal theft, as defined by various statutes
and prosecuted as such.


Shane wrote:
Right. Made by politicians and their contributors. Noticed how
politicians aree almost all lawyers these days? Professional liars.
Right and wrong is something you decide for yourself in the absense
of statutes. If you're not talking about right and wrong you're
talking about doing as you're told and confusing the two.



Shane,

If I copy your identification, modify them in such a way so I pass as you
and start doing so - was anything stolen?


Doesn't sound like it. That would be an impersonation, wouldn't it? Not that
I'd be best pleased. But the point I would make is that it is for sober
debate to determine just what that is. Objectivity not subjectivity.

Shane


  #45  
Old August 16th 04, 07:20 AM
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Corporate XP and SP2

I asked a question and I guess I have your answer..

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Al Smith" wrote in message
...
You quibble with words as if you have no ethics, do you?
Using something without the owners permission is wrong.
If the owner requires you to pay to use and you don't, I would call
you a thief.


Well, JJ, what I don't do is insult people when I carry on a
discussion on Usenet. I express my opinions.



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.