Is there a way to defrag the MFT file and inode data?

In a NTFS filesystem there is a file called Master File Table (MFT) that
starts with 12.5% of the disk and grows as needed.

In Windows XP Pro, I tested:
Diskeeper: Total failure, it fakes results.
O&O Defrag: Does actually try to defrag MFT on boot.
PerfectDisk: Does the best job. But inodes are split.

But as reported by the Defrag Utility of Windows the MFT is still in 3
parts. PerfectDisk reports that the MFT was corrected but there are parts
on the inode file.

Bottom line:

Is copying the files to another disk/partition the only "real" solution?

Read this article: http://www.tweakxp.com/article37043.aspx

Basically your are going to make changes to the registry
(so create a restore point and/or registry backup)
Copy your files to another drive or partition.
Reformat the partition.
Copy the files back.

JS

"Antonio Perez" wrote in message
...
In a NTFS filesystem there is a file called Master File Table (MFT) that
starts with 12.5% of the disk and grows as needed.

In Windows XP Pro, I tested:
Diskeeper: Total failure, it fakes results.
O&O Defrag: Does actually try to defrag MFT on boot.
PerfectDisk: Does the best job. But inodes are split.

But as reported by the Defrag Utility of Windows the MFT is still in 3
parts. PerfectDisk reports that the MFT was corrected but there are parts
on the inode file.

Bottom line:

Is copying the files to another disk/partition the only "real" solution?

"Antonio Perez" wrote in message
...
In a NTFS filesystem there is a file called Master File Table (MFT) that
starts with 12.5% of the disk and grows as needed.

In Windows XP Pro, I tested:
Diskeeper: Total failure, it fakes results.
O&O Defrag: Does actually try to defrag MFT on boot.
PerfectDisk: Does the best job. But inodes are split.

But as reported by the Defrag Utility of Windows the MFT is still in 3
parts. PerfectDisk reports that the MFT was corrected but there are parts
on the inode file.

Bottom line:

Is copying the files to another disk/partition the only "real" solution?


No... the 'real solution' is to stop worring about 'fragments'. Does your
system run faster after using the various 'tools'. If you answer yes...
you're suffering from the placibo effect.

SoCalCommie wrote previously in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardwa

"Antonio Perez" wrote in message
...
In a NTFS filesystem there is a file called Master File Table (MFT)...

No... the 'real solution' is to stop worring about 'fragments'. Does your
system run faster after using the various 'tools'. If you answer yes...
you're suffering from the placibo effect.

Thanks, your comment is really helpfull grin

JS @ wrote previously in microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardwa

Read this article: http://www.tweakxp.com/article37043.aspx

Basically your are going to make changes to the registry
(so create a restore point and/or registry backup)
Copy your files to another drive or partition.
Reformat the partition.
Copy the files back.

JS

Thanks, I was afraid that was the only solution :-(

SoCalCommie wrote previously in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardwa

"Antonio Perez" wrote in message

No... the 'real solution' is to stop worring about 'fragments'. Does your
system run faster after using the various 'tools'. If you answer yes...
you're suffering from the placibo effect.

My previous post was incomplete.

What/who/where does it say that I want/need/wish to make my computer faster?

The reasons for this request are only mine, if you were so kind to ask I
might have told you.

But the arrogance to assume what I need/should/must do is yours only.

What power/status/condition makes my opinion less
valuable/important/relevant than yours?

Is it just plain arrogance to believe/think/feel that you have the truth?

I asked correctly for help. if you want to help, do so, if not do leave.

And, in the end, It's MY computer, I'll do as I see fit.

JS

Have you ever done this to achieve a completely contiguous MFT? The link
is about sizing the MFT disk space allocation. I am uncertain as to
whether the Article fully takes into account the changes that were made
to the NTFS file system with the introduction of Windows XP?

In the past I have tried to find out why there are two fragments on some
partitions and three on others. The information does not seem to be
available. A lot of misinformation on defragmenting the MFT file seems
to have been posted as a result. Some of the claims made by third party
Defragmenter programme suppliers would appear to be spin to promote
sales.



~~~~


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





JS wrote:
Read this article: http://www.tweakxp.com/article37043.aspx

Basically your are going to make changes to the registry
(so create a restore point and/or registry backup)
Copy your files to another drive or partition.
Reformat the partition.
Copy the files back.

JS

"Antonio Perez" wrote in message
...
In a NTFS filesystem there is a file called Master File Table (MFT)
that starts with 12.5% of the disk and grows as needed.

In Windows XP Pro, I tested:
Diskeeper: Total failure, it fakes results.
O&O Defrag: Does actually try to defrag MFT on boot.
PerfectDisk: Does the best job. But inodes are split.

But as reported by the Defrag Utility of Windows the MFT is still in
3 parts. PerfectDisk reports that the MFT was corrected but there
are parts on the inode file.

Bottom line:

Is copying the files to another disk/partition the only "real"
solution?

No I have not, but have seen this problem and the fix mentioned in
several articles from time to time.

I also used Diskeeper and Norton's Speed Disk and ran some comparative
testing. Was under the impression that Diskeeper solved the
MTF fragmentation but according Antonio but apparently it does not.

JS

"Gerry" wrote in message
...
JS

Have you ever done this to achieve a completely contiguous MFT? The link
is about sizing the MFT disk space allocation. I am uncertain as to
whether the Article fully takes into account the changes that were made to
the NTFS file system with the introduction of Windows XP?

In the past I have tried to find out why there are two fragments on some
partitions and three on others. The information does not seem to be
available. A lot of misinformation on defragmenting the MFT file seems to
have been posted as a result. Some of the claims made by third party
Defragmenter programme suppliers would appear to be spin to promote sales.



~~~~


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





JS wrote:
Read this article: http://www.tweakxp.com/article37043.aspx

Basically your are going to make changes to the registry
(so create a restore point and/or registry backup)
Copy your files to another drive or partition.
Reformat the partition.
Copy the files back.

JS

"Antonio Perez" wrote in message
...
In a NTFS filesystem there is a file called Master File Table (MFT)
that starts with 12.5% of the disk and grows as needed.

In Windows XP Pro, I tested:
Diskeeper: Total failure, it fakes results.
O&O Defrag: Does actually try to defrag MFT on boot.
PerfectDisk: Does the best job. But inodes are split.

But as reported by the Defrag Utility of Windows the MFT is still in
3 parts. PerfectDisk reports that the MFT was corrected but there
are parts on the inode file.

Bottom line:

Is copying the files to another disk/partition the only "real"
solution?

JS @ wrote previously in microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardwa

No I have not, but have seen this problem and the fix mentioned in
several articles from time to time.

I also used Diskeeper and Norton's Speed Disk and ran some comparative
testing. Was under the impression that Diskeeper solved the
MTF fragmentation but according Antonio but apparently it does not.


Just check with "Windows Defrag Utility Report". Yes, you need to un-install
Diskeeper to access that, this program hides that tool.

It will report as many fragments as you had before!!!.

Diskeeper just "fudge" about it.

Have you noticed the similarity between Diskeeper's display and the Windows
Defrag utility.

JS

"Antonio Perez" wrote in message
...
JS @ wrote previously in microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardwa

No I have not, but have seen this problem and the fix mentioned in
several articles from time to time.

I also used Diskeeper and Norton's Speed Disk and ran some comparative
testing. Was under the impression that Diskeeper solved the
MTF fragmentation but according Antonio but apparently it does not.


Just check with "Windows Defrag Utility Report". Yes, you need to
un-install
Diskeeper to access that, this program hides that tool.

It will report as many fragments as you had before!!!.

Diskeeper just "fudge" about it.

Not quite, the colors are quite different, at least the version I tried.

Your point being?

AP

JS @ wrote previously in microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardwa

Have you noticed the similarity between Diskeeper's display and the
Windows Defrag utility.

JS

"Antonio Perez" wrote in message
...
JS @ wrote previously in microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardwa

No I have not, but have seen this problem and the fix mentioned in
several articles from time to time.

I also used Diskeeper and Norton's Speed Disk and ran some comparative
testing. Was under the impression that Diskeeper solved the
MTF fragmentation but according Antonio but apparently it does not.


Just check with "Windows Defrag Utility Report". Yes, you need to
un-install
Diskeeper to access that, this program hides that tool.

It will report as many fragments as you had before!!!.

Diskeeper just "fudge" about it.

Well, the method of displaying the files is virtually identical and I think
that the built in Windows defragmenter is the old "Diskeeper Lite" version
they had years ago.

JS

"Antonio Perez" wrote in message
...
Not quite, the colors are quite different, at least the version I tried.

Your point being?

AP

JS @ wrote previously in microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardwa

Have you noticed the similarity between Diskeeper's display and the
Windows Defrag utility.

JS

"Antonio Perez" wrote in message
...
JS @ wrote previously in microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardwa

No I have not, but have seen this problem and the fix mentioned in
several articles from time to time.

I also used Diskeeper and Norton's Speed Disk and ran some comparative
testing. Was under the impression that Diskeeper solved the
MTF fragmentation but according Antonio but apparently it does not.


Just check with "Windows Defrag Utility Report". Yes, you need to
un-install
Diskeeper to access that, this program hides that tool.

It will report as many fragments as you had before!!!.

Diskeeper just "fudge" about it.

Go for it, and explore the hidden depths, who knows what you will discover


"Antonio Perez" wrote in message
...
SoCalCommie wrote previously in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardwa

"Antonio Perez" wrote in message

No... the 'real solution' is to stop worring about 'fragments'. Does your
system run faster after using the various 'tools'. If you answer yes...
you're suffering from the placibo effect.

My previous post was incomplete.

What/who/where does it say that I want/need/wish to make my computer
faster?

The reasons for this request are only mine, if you were so kind to ask I
might have told you.

But the arrogance to assume what I need/should/must do is yours only.

What power/status/condition makes my opinion less
valuable/important/relevant than yours?

Is it just plain arrogance to believe/think/feel that you have the truth?

I asked correctly for help. if you want to help, do so, if not do leave.

And, in the end, It's MY computer, I'll do as I see fit.

JS wrote:

Well, the method of displaying the files is virtually identical and I think
that the built in Windows defragmenter is the old "Diskeeper Lite" version
they had years ago.

Use a hex editor on defrag.exe included in Windows. You'll find the
string "LegalCopyright 2001 Microsoft Corp. and Executive Software".
Executive Software changed their name for Diskeeper Corp in July 2005
(http://redmondmag.com/news/article.a...orialsid=6792).

Microsoft gets lots of their utilities from 3rd parties, or they end up
acquiring them.

Antonio Perez wrote:

In a NTFS filesystem there is a file called Master File Table (MFT) that
starts with 12.5% of the disk and grows as needed.

In Windows XP Pro, I tested:
Diskeeper: Total failure, it fakes results.
O&O Defrag: Does actually try to defrag MFT on boot.
PerfectDisk: Does the best job. But inodes are split.

But as reported by the Defrag Utility of Windows the MFT is still in 3
parts. PerfectDisk reports that the MFT was corrected but there are parts
on the inode file.

Bottom line:

Is copying the files to another disk/partition the only "real" solution?

Once the free sectors beyond the reserved MFT space gets consumed,
additional files will start consuming the "reserved" MFT space. That
means you won't get around MFT defragmentation if your files consume all
the unreserved sectors. The default is 12.5% reserved for MFT
expansion; however, if your files consume more than 87.5% of the space
then they start to consume the MFT reserved space that has not been
actually allocated to the MFT.

You should only go with larger values of NtfsMftZoneReservation if you
expect your files to consume less space. A value of 4 means to reserve
50% of the partition's sectors but obviously that also means
fragmentation is more likely since the remaining 50% of the free sectors
are likely to get consumed faster with addition file storage than if
they had 87.5% of sectors to use before encroaching on the MFT's reserve
space.

Reserved space is not exclusive space. You can reserve more space for
the expansion of the MFT but that also mean more likelihood that your
file storage will hit the reserve boundary and begin consuming the
*reserved* space for the MFT, and that means it is more likely to force
multiple fragments for the MFT. If you are currently using over 90% of
the sectors allocated to the MFT then it is likely the MFT will enlarge
soon so increasing NtfsMftZoneReservation and going through the
boot-time defrag (which honors the MFT reserve space to move files out
of there) to add more reserve space to the MFT would make sense (if that
increase wouldn't result in forcing the existing file storage to
encroach on that reserved space). But don't right to the max value
(from 1 to 4 to move from 12.5% to 50%) because you increase the chance
that your file storage must encroach on the space that is only
*reserved* for MFT expansion. Just increment NtfsMftZoneReservation by
one, like going from 1 to 2. If, however, disk defrag shows that you
are at 42% consumption of the allocated MFT space then just do the
boot-time MFT defrag (if you have multiple fragments for the MFT) and do
NOT increase NtfsMftZoneReservation. You aren't helping yourself by
increasing the likelihood that your files must sooner encroach on the
reserved space for MFT expansion. Defrag of the MFT zone (reserved
space) by moving files out only works if the files deleted (and sectors
freed up) are outside the MFT zone, but that doesn't prevent future
encroach of file storage into the MFT zone.

Since the MFT fragments are on the faster moving outer tracks of a
partition, you probably won't see any speed boost by merging them into a
single fragment. Know of any actual performance testing showing that
defragmenting the MFT that shows performance was improved, and by more
than the variance of measurements between successive tests (rare few
mention the deviance or even the test count, and a single test is
worthless), and a benchmark that is independent of the defrag tool that
wants to prove to its user that the defrag tool actually generated a
performance improvement?

I don't see much reason to enlarge the MFT zone unless it is already at
some high consumption level (90%, or more) and only if you can move out
files from the MFT zone (or move them to the end of the that region) to
allow the MFT to expand contiguously into the reserved space without
other files encroaching into there that will cause the MFT to defrag
later when it then needs to expand; however, since the MFT may not have
to enlarge until a long time after the defrag, the MFT will probably
still get fragmented.