New computer but win 7 or 8

Ken Blake :
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 10:10:16 +0100, Mike Barnes
wrote:

Ken Blake :
I use Windows 8, almost exclusively with the traditional desktop
interface, and with Start 8 installed. If you were to look at and use
my computer, you would have a hard time realizing that it's not
Windows 7.

Interesting... exactly how *would* I discover that it's not W7?

As always, hold down the Windows key, and press Pause|Break. Or just
look around enough and you'll see a few small differences. But there
aren't many and they are small.

Would my desktop look any different, for instance?

Not much.

Would I see my quick launch
bar, my taskbar, and the tray exactly as I do now? With the Windows
Classic theme? (I'm not bothered about the orb, I don't use it.)

Yes.

You might not know the answer to this but I'll ask anyway. As I see it
there are two possibilities. One is that W8 has everything needed to
display a W7-style taskbar, launchbar, etc, and Start8 would merely make
this available to me. Or Start8 is providing that functionality with its
own code, which (more or less) mimics Microsoft's code in W7. Any idea
which it is? (It matters because I already customise the taskbar using
another third party product. "Not much" isn't very reassuring.)

--
Mike Barnes

"MoonGlow234" wrote in message ...


I like the Windows Media Center in Windows 7. I read somewhere that the WMC
doesn't come with Windows 8 but must be bought separately. Is that true?


Yes, it is true.

There are two versions of Windows 8 for the consumer
Windows 8 and Windows 8 Pro
- Windows Media Center requires Windows 8 Pro

If the system is:
a. Windows 8 then one has to upgrade with the Windows 8 Pro Pack which includes Media Center ($100)
b. Windows 8 Pro then one has to upgrade with the Media Center Pack for ($10)

Once Media Center is installed:
- the o/s will become Windows 8 Pro with Media Center with a new product key
- the installed version will become a retail version (i.e. if the original o/s was OEM it will no longer be an OEM version and one
will no longer be able to install OEM specific apps available or previously available in the MSFT store)
- 90 days of free support for the o/s is available after upgrading to Windows 8 Pro with Media Center (note: If an OEM original
o/s - contact the OEM to determine if upgrading impacts their support agreement - i.e. 90 days later you may only have paid support
from anyone)

--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

At last I have a good reason to go over to an apple Mac - windows 8!
Quilly

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message ...

You might not know the answer to this but I'll ask anyway. As I see it
there are two possibilities. One is that W8 has everything needed to
display a W7-style taskbar, launchbar, etc, and Start8 would merely make
this available to me. Or Start8 is providing that functionality with its
own code, which (more or less) mimics Microsoft's code in W7. Any idea
which it is? (It matters because I already customise the taskbar using
another third party product. "Not much" isn't very reassuring.)

Hello Mike,

Win8 when run in 'Desktop mode' like Win 7 provides the Windows Taskbar.
Win8 like Win7 requires one to 'add the Quick Launch Taskbar'
- 3rd party utilities are not necessary for either of the above items

If you are customizing in addition to the above on Win7 it might be prudent to validate if your 3rd party software has a Win8
version or is Win8 compatible (though most everything that runs on Win7 will run on Win8).

The Win8 Modern UI is the replacement for the Start Menu (in Win7 and earlier o/s).
- The modern UI is nothing more than a tiled UI with shortcuts to apps and applications. Tiles can be grouped or rearranged to your
liking. Apps run in full screen Modern UI mode; applications (e.g. Office, browser[even IE has a desktop mode), 3rd party
software) run in desktop mode (the same as Win7).

No matter how one approaches Win8....a behavioral change is necessary to adapt to some of Windows 8 features...but as with any
o/s...use and comfort eventually becomes wrote.

--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

956-0502 On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:19:07 +0100, Mike Barnes
wrote:

Ken Blake :
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 10:10:16 +0100, Mike Barnes
wrote:

Ken Blake :
I use Windows 8, almost exclusively with the traditional desktop
interface, and with Start 8 installed. If you were to look at and use
my computer, you would have a hard time realizing that it's not
Windows 7.

Interesting... exactly how *would* I discover that it's not W7?

As always, hold down the Windows key, and press Pause|Break. Or just
look around enough and you'll see a few small differences. But there
aren't many and they are small.

Would my desktop look any different, for instance?

Not much.

Would I see my quick launch
bar, my taskbar, and the tray exactly as I do now? With the Windows
Classic theme? (I'm not bothered about the orb, I don't use it.)

Yes.

You might not know the answer to this but I'll ask anyway. As I see it
there are two possibilities. One is that W8 has everything needed to
display a W7-style taskbar, launchbar, etc, and Start8 would merely make
this available to me.


No.


Or Start8 is providing that functionality with its
own code, which (more or less) mimics Microsoft's code in W7.


Yes.


Any idea
which it is? (It matters because I already customise the taskbar using
another third party product.


What third-party product are you using, and what customization is it
providing for you? Perhaps Start8 can do something similar.


"Not much" isn't very reassuring.)


I was going to say "no," but since I wasn't 100% sure, I changed it to
"not much." g

There are probably a few minor differences, but to be frank, I can't
remember any.

Would you like me to e-mail you a screen shot of my desktop?

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:28:23 +0000 (UTC), Bert
wrote:

In Ken Blake
wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, the most important thing to remember is that
it has *two* interfaces. The one you are talking about (the
"smart-phone like GUI") is only the default one, and one that doesn't
have to ever be used. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, I hardly
ever use it; the other interface, the one I use and recommend for
those without touch screens, is almost exactly like Windows 7's ,
especially if you add a third-party program.

Ignoring the GUI, how similar are the underlying OSes?

Is Win8 "Professional" different in any meaningful way from Win7
"Professional," for example?


As far as I'm concerned, no. But we are all different, and perhaps
someone else might say yes.

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:07:35 -0400, "MoonGlow234"
wrote:

I like the Windows Media Center in Windows 7. I read somewhere that the WMC
doesn't come with Windows 8 but must be bought separately. Is that true?


Yes. It was free for a while, but now it has to be bought.

I have it installed, but I never use it.

On 11/04/2013 9:38 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 4/11/13 7:22 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick
wrote:

snip

So to repeat myself, you and almost everyone else, will have to
upgrade to Windows 8 (or its successor) sooner or later, but
there's
no rush. You are not like your friend buying a new computer.

Just to be a muckraker, ditch Windows in favor of OS X or some
flavor of Linux. LOL


Not so great if you can't run your favorite software on a new o/s!

From another perspective...to foist new 3rd party make-it-do-like-Win7 software (previously unused by the intended purchaser) upon
some else, imo, considering purchase based on a comparison of Win7 or Win8 is also not a good idea.

I don't disagree that the use of 3rd party tools on Win8 is a bad for everyone, but I really believe there is a bigger picture.
What we do agree on is Win8 for a new pc buyer is a probably a better idea for quite a few reasons.

As an example....with a nearly a half billion existing users of Hotmail and Messenger (now Skype) there
are features (which you probably don't use) and integration with MSFT services, the MSFT store apps that are best accessed and
performed in the Modern UI and one should at least be given the opportunity to test/determine those features (granted some are
truly junk and worthless to me and others but not to everyone).

Additionally not recognizing the ecosystem changes (not much different from behavior perspective than the one occurring in the nntp
arena) and its integration with the cloud is a very narrow view of where we'll all be in the future. Folks like us are no longer
the primary target market and eventually we'll all have to adapt or forever relegate ourselves to reminiscing 'Do you remember
when..."....but then again eventually we won't care much when our primary objective is being able to suck pea soup through our
straws g.

--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps


"Ken Blake" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:13:28 +0100, mick wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote:


Is there anywhere where there are computers with Win 7 and Win 8 that he
can play with? Maybe his reactions will be informative.

That is a good idea, I will give him my laptop to play with for awhile
so he gets a feel for win7. There are plenty of new machines in the
shops locally with win8.


I don't think it's a good idea at all. He will see Windows 8 mostly
with the Modern/Metro interface and without any of the third-party
programs I recommended installed. So he will very likely get an
erroneous poor opinion of it.

mick wrote:

I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop
computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do
much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph
editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him
through most basic things much of the time.

Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am
stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and
can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go
for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here
at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over
the phone.

The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen.
I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend
his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is
widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see
what I mean.

As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see
me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't
convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile
back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the
water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time.

Oh, what to do :-?

Have you considered just refurb'ing/rehab'ing the existing machine?
Whether that's a viable choice depends on why your friend thinks he
needs a new machine. For what he's doing, it doesn't seem he needs all
that much computing power. A thorough system cleaning and decrapifying,
and more RAM might be all that is required.

That was all I did for a client who complained his 7 or so
year old Pentium IV, 40GB HD, 512MB RAM, WXP SP2 was too slow, and he
needed a new one. He used it for business as well as personal. All I
did was decrapify it, up the RAM to 1.5GB, the maximum it would
take, and update it to SP3, etc. It was like a new machine. And that
was two years ago. Since that time, I've added a larger hard drive,
cloning the old 40 gigger as it was failing. It's still going strong.

FWIW, if your friend does decide on a new machine, whether W7 or W8, be
sure to check if his old XP software is compatible.

Stef

....winston :
"Mike Barnes" wrote in message news:q9ZJO6e7PDaRFw4q@g52lk5g23lkgk3lk3
45g.invalid...

You might not know the answer to this but I'll ask anyway. As I see it
there are two possibilities. One is that W8 has everything needed to
display a W7-style taskbar, launchbar, etc, and Start8 would merely make
this available to me. Or Start8 is providing that functionality with its
own code, which (more or less) mimics Microsoft's code in W7. Any idea
which it is? (It matters because I already customise the taskbar using
another third party product. "Not much" isn't very reassuring.)

Hello Mike,

Win8 when run in 'Desktop mode' like Win 7 provides the Windows Taskbar.
Win8 like Win7 requires one to 'add the Quick Launch Taskbar'
- 3rd party utilities are not necessary for either of the above items

If you are customizing in addition to the above on Win7 it might be
prudent to validate if your 3rd party software has a Win8 version or is
Win8 compatible (though most everything that runs on Win7 will run on
Win8).

The Win8 Modern UI is the replacement for the Start Menu (in Win7 and
earlier o/s).
- The modern UI is nothing more than a tiled UI with shortcuts to apps
and applications. Tiles can be grouped or rearranged to your liking.
Apps run in full screen Modern UI mode; applications (e.g. Office,
browser[even IE has a desktop mode), 3rd party software) run in desktop
mode (the same as Win7).

No matter how one approaches Win8....a behavioral change is necessary
to adapt to some of Windows 8 features...but as with any o/s...use and
comfort eventually becomes wrote.

Thanks, that's good. I so rarely use the Start menu, I couldn't care
less what it looks like. I do use True Launch Bar and a Windows 8
version is available.

--
Mike Barnes

MoonGlow234 wrote:
I like the Windows Media Center in Windows 7. I read somewhere that the
WMC doesn't come with Windows 8 but must be bought separately. Is that
true?

-Moonglo

Yes, Media Center is purchased separately for Windows 8.

If you bought Windows 8 in January, the license key was free for Media Center.

You use "Add Feature", to turn on Media Center.

And it's the usual, dribbling, marketing story.
I'm not even going to guess what it costs now, to get it.
(Note the version dependency.) Like, if you just bought a
Windows 8 laptop, I don't know exactly what you must buy to
get it (Pro Pack?). I guess they couldn't just make the
feature "flat" and a fixed price, to add it to any PC.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...automatically/

What I got out of Media Center, was two CODEC files, since I
don't have a tuner inside the PC. That's the sum total of
new functionality I got.

Paul

Ken Blake :
956-0502 On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:19:07 +0100, Mike Barnes
wrote:

Ken Blake :
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 10:10:16 +0100, Mike Barnes
wrote:

Ken Blake :
I use Windows 8, almost exclusively with the traditional desktop
interface, and with Start 8 installed. If you were to look at and use
my computer, you would have a hard time realizing that it's not
Windows 7.

Interesting... exactly how *would* I discover that it's not W7?

As always, hold down the Windows key, and press Pause|Break. Or just
look around enough and you'll see a few small differences. But there
aren't many and they are small.

Would my desktop look any different, for instance?

Not much.

Would I see my quick launch
bar, my taskbar, and the tray exactly as I do now? With the Windows
Classic theme? (I'm not bothered about the orb, I don't use it.)

Yes.

You might not know the answer to this but I'll ask anyway. As I see it
there are two possibilities. One is that W8 has everything needed to
display a W7-style taskbar, launchbar, etc, and Start8 would merely make
this available to me.

No.

Or Start8 is providing that functionality with its
own code, which (more or less) mimics Microsoft's code in W7.

Yes.

Any idea
which it is? (It matters because I already customise the taskbar using
another third party product.


What third-party product are you using, and what customization is it
providing for you?

"True Launch Bar". Using that, my taskbar has ten folders of shortcuts
(arranged functionally) and two shortcuts. No need for any Start menu.

Additionally I make great use of pinned apps and documents.

Perhaps Start8 can do something similar.

Perhaps.

"Not much" isn't very reassuring.)

I was going to say "no," but since I wasn't 100% sure, I changed it to
"not much." g

Very wise.

There are probably a few minor differences, but to be frank, I can't
remember any.

Would you like me to e-mail you a screen shot of my desktop?

Tell you what, here's one of mine. This is one of two monitors:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vj9u0kkv4l82prg/Desktop.gif

--
Mike Barnes

On 4/11/2013 6:02 PM, mick wrote:
I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old
machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and
photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic
things much of the time.

Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7
or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it,
but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play
with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone.

The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen.
I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an
already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced
bread if you see what I mean.

As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all
the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of
machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and
that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time.

Oh, what to do :-?


I think you need to first determine whether it will a 32-bit or a 64-bit version of Windows that he
will acquire.

And, if he is using Outlook Express on his XP machine, he is in for some discomfort in adapting to
a new email client.

On 4/12/13 12:07 PM, Ann Watson wrote:
On 11/04/2013 9:38 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 4/11/13 7:22 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick
wrote:

snip

So to repeat myself, you and almost everyone else, will have to
upgrade to Windows 8 (or its successor) sooner or later, but
there's
no rush. You are not like your friend buying a new computer.

Just to be a muckraker, ditch Windows in favor of OS X or some
flavor of Linux. LOL


Not so great if you can't run your favorite software on a new o/s!

How does this differ from not being able to use your favorite Windows
software in the Windows OS?

Besides, IMO, you can get open source software that does everything the
average user needs. grin


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 20.0
Thunderbird 17.0.5
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2