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Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?



 
 
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  #31  
Old April 9th 15, 07:16 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Wildman[_2_]
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Posts: 422
Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 09:43:19 -0400
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

Per mike:
Is there anything I can do to keep my bank transactions
private in win7?


I don't claim any expertise in network security.

Having said that, I would observe:

1) Hardly a month goes by in which we do not hear about
some new exploit of the world wide network and/or
the PCs on it. Therefore safety is a moving target.

2) There are thousands, if not tens of thousands, really,
*really*, REALLY smart people working long hours trying to figure
out how to separate us from our money by compromising
network security.

Do any of them really care about my dinky little bank account and
retirement fund?

I would propose that as the real question.


That would be a case of quality vs. quantity. Grocery stores
across the country make pennies on a loaf of bread but they
sell millions, if not billions. Get my point? Your "dinky
little bank account and retirement fund", when combined with
thousands of other dinky accounts, is not so dinky.

--
Wildman GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!

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  #32  
Old April 9th 15, 07:29 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
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Posts: 7,485
Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 04:08:07 -0400, Paul wrote:

I fondly remember when the bank teller told me
about their "new online banking option".

And how it was protected with a *three digit pin*.
That was their password scheme at the time.

I don't have a very good poker face, and I hope
I didn't "scowl" at the teller in too obvious
a fashion :-)

As you might guess from that, I wouldn't
be caught dead doing online banking.


It's 2015 now. My password is maybe a dozen characters, not all of them
letters.

My ATM PIN is all of 4 digits, ten times more secure than what you
mentioned. Oh boy.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
  #33  
Old April 9th 15, 07:31 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
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Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:06:37 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 08:57:03 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

On 2015-04-09 12:00 AM, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
mike wrote:
Can you do safe online banking in win7?

Online banking is unsafe by virtue of it being online.
I do all my banking at the bank.


+1


-1

The same folks who are afraid to bank online will hand their credit card to
a teenager at a restaurant and watch him walk away with it.


Or to an adult, for that matter...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
  #34  
Old April 9th 15, 07:38 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
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Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 18:20:38 -0700, mike wrote:

Can you do safe online banking in win7?

Primary computer is win7 with firewall, AV,
firefox, noscript...etc...
I've never had a known malware infection.
But that pesky "known" negates everything.

I'm paranoid about online banking.
For that, I boot a live linux CD that never
goes anywhere but my bank.
It gives me a sense of security, but it's annoying.

I switched to Comodo internet security because it
has a one-click sandbox mode. My intention was
to run the browser in the sandbox for online banking.

But, after thinking about it, I concluded that the sandbox
could help me trap malware inside the sandbox, protecting
the primary OS while browsing risky sites.

If my computer already has malware, such as a keylogger,
the sandbox won't help me at all to prevent my
account info being logged and sent off to the hackers.
Yes? No?

Comodo sandbox has a virtual on-screen keyboard, but I'm not
sure that helps. The data has to be converted going out to
the bank. I'd be more trusting if the virtual keyboard
were part of the bank's website and no actual data could
be decoded on my end.

Is there anything I can do to keep my bank transactions
private in win7?

There's a product called SafeCentral that claims
to address the problem with "reverse sandboxing".
I have no idea if it really solves the problem.
And it costs $40. I can boot the live linux CD many times
for $40 worth of annoyance.


In one sense, you can't avoid online banking. Not in the sense you
mean, but in this sense: when, for instance, you swipe a credit card at
a business, the transaction (usually) involves lots of network activity.

Anyway, in both respects, you can't be sure of absolute safety, sadly.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
  #35  
Old April 9th 15, 07:52 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
s|b
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Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 23:00:54 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

Online banking is unsafe by virtue of it being online.
I do all my banking at the bank.


Good for you! I do most of my online banking at home, in a comfy chair;
sometimes I use the "Self Service Banking" terminals at the bank and
those are probably running Windows XP, so... safe?

Anyway, as a Belgian citizen the bank is obligated by law to refund me
when something goes wrong (phishing for example). Even if I'm running XP
or don't have any antivirus. If I'm not mistaken

But I guess, the m.o. is pretty safe. One bank uses a VASCO card reader
that can either be connected or not.

https://www.vasco.com/products/client_products/card_reader_digipass/digipass_870.aspx

The amount/sum of money you transfer is also part of the code and, of
course, you need a bank card and the PIN code.

For some reason, I don't trust their Android app much, but I haven't
given it a chance yet. But it should have the same insurance, so there's
really no reason not to use it...

--
s|b
  #36  
Old April 9th 15, 08:00 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
s|b
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Posts: 1,496
Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 20:52:41 +0200, s|b wrote:

If I'm not mistaken


I wanted to type "the insurance covers up to 100.000 euro", but I
couldn't confirm this and I forgot to delete the sentence. :-o

--
s|b
  #37  
Old April 9th 15, 09:07 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
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Posts: 10,449
Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:13:36 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:


I deposit checks in person at the bank (but I get very few checks.


Like you, I get very few checks, but I recently got a check for $6.00 for
jury duty. My bank lets me take a picture of the check and submit it for
payment, saving me a trip. In the past, I've also dropped checks into the
ATM.

Almost everything comes on-line). And I get cash at the bank's ATM
machine (but I get and use very little cash).


Ditto. I get cash about $200 at a time, and it tends to last me most of a
year before I need to go back. Nearly everything is done with credit cards
or electronically.

--

Char Jackson
  #38  
Old April 9th 15, 09:11 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
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Posts: 10,449
Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:31:15 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:06:37 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 08:57:03 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

On 2015-04-09 12:00 AM, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
mike wrote:
Can you do safe online banking in win7?

Online banking is unsafe by virtue of it being online.
I do all my banking at the bank.

+1


-1

The same folks who are afraid to bank online will hand their credit card to
a teenager at a restaurant and watch him walk away with it.


Or to an adult, for that matter...


I think Wolf only visits restaurants that bring a WiFi terminal to the
table, but I never think to ask about that before they show me to my table.

--

Char Jackson
  #39  
Old April 9th 15, 09:25 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Wildman[_2_]
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Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 16:05:44 -0400
Wolf K wrote:

On 2015-04-09 2:12 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Mayayana:
...I avoid debit cards. \


Given the protections inerrant in credit cards, I can't see why
people use debit cards - unless it's the exposure to risk under
most credit card vendors' business models, which is around the
extremely heavy penalties if/when somebody makes a payment error.

Personally, I choose to go with the risk (what, maybe $300 max if I
mess up?) vs the chance of somebody draining my account when I'm
not looking.


The craziest idea is the wave-to-pay card, a "feature" built into
every chipped card. That means that anyone who has your card can
wave-to-pay. No PIN required.

Have a secure day,


And someone could walk by you on a sidewalk and scan
you card for cloning without you knowing it.

--
Wildman GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!

  #40  
Old April 9th 15, 09:38 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_4_]
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Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 15:11:13 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:31:15 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:06:37 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 08:57:03 -0400, Wolf K wrote:



The same folks who are afraid to bank online will hand their credit card to
a teenager at a restaurant and watch him walk away with it.


Or to an adult, for that matter...


I think Wolf only visits restaurants that bring a WiFi terminal to the
table, but I never think to ask about that before they show me to my table.



In my experience, such a restaurant is rare in the USA, but they are
very common in France and Italy, maybe in other countries in Europe
too.

Wolf's e-mail address is Canadian. I don't know how common they are
there.

  #41  
Old April 9th 15, 09:46 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_4_]
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Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 15:07:00 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:13:36 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:


I deposit checks in person at the bank (but I get very few checks.


Like you, I get very few checks, but I recently got a check for $6.00 for
jury duty. My bank lets me take a picture of the check and submit it for
payment, saving me a trip.



I think I can do that with my tablet, but I haven't tried it.


In the past, I've also dropped checks into the
ATM.



I could do that, but the thought has always made me nervous. Since my
bank is only a few blocks from home, on my to almost everywhere, and I
need to do it seldom, I've always brought checks in to deposit.



Almost everything comes on-line). And I get cash at the bank's ATM
machine (but I get and use very little cash).


Ditto. I get cash about $200 at a time, and it tends to last me most of a
year before I need to go back. Nearly everything is done with credit cards
or electronically.



Yes, same here. But there's an occasional person I deal with, such as
my barber, my gardener, and my guitar teacher, where neither is a
choice. So $200 wouldn't last me nearly as long as it does you.

  #42  
Old April 9th 15, 10:01 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_4_]
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Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 14:12:11 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:


Given the protections inerrant in credit cards, I can't see why people
use debit cards - unless it's the exposure to risk under most credit
card vendors' business models, which is around the extremely heavy
penalties if/when somebody makes a payment error.




I never make payment errors, since I have all my credit cards set up
for automatic payment. And my payment is always in full, so I never
pay any interest. They are called "credit" cards, but I don't really
treat them as such. I never spend more on them than I can afford to
spend.

Like you, I never use debit cards (except in ATM machines). If you
always pay in full, they have three big advantages over debit cards:

1. As you say, built-in protection.

2. The float on the money charged (although with today's extremely low
interest rates, that's not as meaningful as it used to be).

3. The airline mileage or cash-back feature built into many of them. I
almost always use a card that gets me airline mileage. I use the
mileage only for international travel, and that's worth more than the
cash-back other cards offer.

Automatic payment is another example of how easy online banking has
become. And when my statement comes out, I access it on the web and
reconcile it through Quicken (Quicken's reconciliation is umpteen
times faster and easier that what I did in the days before Quicken; it
takes me no more than a minute or two), so if there is an error in the
statement, I know it well before the payment is made and can take
action (although in all the years I've been doing this, I've never
found an error).

  #43  
Old April 9th 15, 10:07 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_4_]
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Posts: 3,318
Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:38:13 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:


In one sense, you can't avoid online banking. Not in the sense you
mean, but in this sense: when, for instance, you swipe a credit card at
a business, the transaction (usually) involves lots of network activity.




In the old days, if you swiped a credit card (or anything else) and
got caught, they would put you in jail! g



Anyway, in both respects, you can't be sure of absolute safety, sadly.




True. But there are very absolutes you can be sure of these days. If
you walk across the street when the traffic light is with you, you
can't be sure that a car won't run the light, and hit and kill you.

But as long as the percentages are strongly on our side, we all take
all kinds of risks.

  #44  
Old April 9th 15, 10:31 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
(PeteCresswell)
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Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

Per Ken Blake:
I never make payment errors, since I have all my credit cards set up
for automatic payment. And my payment is always in full,


I have 2 credit cards:

- The one I carry around, and which gets lost every so often.

- The one I never carry, but use for automatic payments of
things like the phone bill, DynDNS service, and so-forth.
That way, if/when I lose my wallet, the automatic payments
do not need attention.


I am also trying to get everything on autopilot so, as long as there is
money in the checking account, I can be sick or whatever and everything
gets paid.

I'm almost there except for one recurring bill and some way
to replenish the checking account from my money market account in
another institution (which does not support checking accounts).
--
Pete Cresswell
  #45  
Old April 9th 15, 10:33 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
(PeteCresswell)
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Posts: 1,933
Default Is safe online banking possible? sandbox?

Per Gene E. Bloch:
... for instance, you swipe a credit card at
a business, the transaction (usually) involves lots of network activity.

Anyway, in both respects, you can't be sure of absolute safety, sadly.


Yeah, but the $50 liability limit on credit cards comes pretty close....
--
Pete Cresswell
 




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