Laptop Problem

I plug the laptop in and it shows battery charging and does actually
increase in % charge.

Push the power button and it starts and I am using it right now.

I pull the AC cord and the laptop dies.

Pushing the power button does nothing.

I changed to a different battery.

Same thing happens. It charges just fine on AC and runs. Pull the AC
and it shuts down.

Is there some setting that says do not use the battery ?

In message , freely
writes:
I plug the laptop in and it shows battery charging and does actually
increase in % charge.

Push the power button and it starts and I am using it right now.

I pull the AC cord and the laptop dies.

Pushing the power button does nothing.

I changed to a different battery.

Same thing happens. It charges just fine on AC and runs. Pull the AC
and it shuts down.

Is there some setting that says do not use the battery ?

I'm not aware of one (if someone else is, please jump in and say).

I suspect what's happening is there's a very poor contact in the power
input socket: it makes enough contact for the battery to trickle charge,
but not enough to supply the computer. Or, more likely, it's not
switching over properly when you pull the plug. (Not an AC plug actually
- more likely about 19V, DC.)

Unfortunately, on _some_ laptops, these sockets are the devil to get at
and replace.

If it's mounted to the motherboard, most likely a solder joint has
cracked - not _too_ hard to reflow once you've actually got at it. In
other cases, the socket isn't on the mobo, but connected to it via a
short lead.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

pu gnickab yb naem uoy tahw siht sI

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , freely
writes:
I plug the laptop in and it shows battery charging and does actually
increase in % charge.

Push the power button and it starts and I am using it right now.

I pull the AC cord and the laptop dies.

Pushing the power button does nothing.

I changed to a different battery.

Same thing happens. It charges just fine on AC and runs. Pull the AC
and it shuts down.

Is there some setting that says do not use the battery ?

I'm not aware of one (if someone else is, please jump in and say).

I suspect what's happening is there's a very poor contact in the power
input socket: it makes enough contact for the battery to trickle charge,
but not enough to supply the computer. Or, more likely, it's not
switching over properly when you pull the plug. (Not an AC plug actually
- more likely about 19V, DC.)

Unfortunately, on _some_ laptops, these sockets are the devil to get at
and replace.

If it's mounted to the motherboard, most likely a solder joint has
cracked - not _too_ hard to reflow once you've actually got at it. In
other cases, the socket isn't on the mobo, but connected to it via a
short lead.

The fuel gauge IC in the battery pack, plays a part
in how things work.

For example, if a laptop is sleeping, the RAM is kept alive
via standby power drawn from the battery. When the battery
gets down to around 5%, the computer has to be awakened, the
contents of RAM dumped out to disk, and then the laptop
does a full shutdown (hibernation, zero power draw).
I believe the fuel gauge IC plays a part in that.

If you buy a replacement battery pack, on occasion the design
uses the wrong fuel gauge IC. And the replacement battery pack isn't
really compatible.

https://www.digikey.ca/en/articles/t...rge-monitoring

When you see a battery connector with around seven or eight
contacts, maybe four of those contacts carry battery current,
but a few of the contacts are for a serial bus, and the
laptop talks to the battery over a couple of those pins.
A serial bus is used, to save pins. If every logic condition
required a separate electrical connection, the connector
would need lots and lots of pins.

*******

Maybe you could use Linux to debug a fuel gauge, but
I've never tried to do that.

Paul

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , freely
writes:
I plug the laptop in and it shows battery charging and does actually
increase in % charge.

Push the power button and it starts and I am using it right now.

I pull the AC cord and the laptop dies.

Pushing the power button does nothing.

I changed to a different battery.

Same thing happens. It charges just fine on AC and runs. Pull the
AC and it shuts down.

Is there some setting that says do not use the battery ?

I'm not aware of one (if someone else is, please jump in and say).
I suspect what's happening is there's a very poor contact in the
power input socket: it makes enough contact for the battery to
trickle charge, but not enough to supply the computer. Or, more
likely, it's not switching over properly when you pull the plug. (Not
an AC plug actually - more likely about 19V, DC.)
Unfortunately, on _some_ laptops, these sockets are the devil to get
at and replace.
If it's mounted to the motherboard, most likely a solder joint has
cracked - not _too_ hard to reflow once you've actually got at it. In
other cases, the socket isn't on the mobo, but connected to it via a
short lead.

The fuel gauge IC in the battery pack, plays a part
in how things work.

For example, if a laptop is sleeping, the RAM is kept alive
via standby power drawn from the battery. When the battery
gets down to around 5%, the computer has to be awakened, the
contents of RAM dumped out to disk, and then the laptop
does a full shutdown (hibernation, zero power draw).
I believe the fuel gauge IC plays a part in that.

If you buy a replacement battery pack, on occasion the design
uses the wrong fuel gauge IC. And the replacement battery pack isn't
really compatible.

https://www.digikey.ca/en/articles/t...gauge-ics-simp
lify-li-ion-cell-charge-monitoring

When you see a battery connector with around seven or eight
contacts, maybe four of those contacts carry battery current,
but a few of the contacts are for a serial bus, and the
laptop talks to the battery over a couple of those pins.
A serial bus is used, to save pins. If every logic condition
required a separate electrical connection, the connector
would need lots and lots of pins.

*******

Maybe you could use Linux to debug a fuel gauge, but
I've never tried to do that.

Paul

The fact that he's getting charging info., which shows it charging (I
assume he means over a period of time), suggests to me that nothing is
wrong with the battery, but that the switching in the socket where the
"AC" (actually usually ~19V DC) goes in is not making proper contact. In
other words, when he pulls the plug out, it's not switching to battery
power. Or it is, but via a contact that will no longer carry the current
to run the laptop, though it may carry enough to trickle-charge the
battery.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Wed, 21 Jun 2017 16:24:55
-0700, freely wrote:

I plug the laptop in and it shows battery charging and does actually
increase in % charge.

Push the power button and it starts and I am using it right now.

I pull the AC cord and the laptop dies.

If you're looking at the power window, does it stay there even for a
second and change from charging to battery?

Pushing the power button does nothing.

I changed to a different battery.

Same thing happens. It charges just fine on AC and runs. Pull the AC
and it shuts down.

Is there some setting that says do not use the battery ?

This is probably my fault. I think I set some XP computers to not use
the battery. Let me reset that.

But if that's not it. Normally dirt and oxidation don't interfere with
plain old electricity, but still, maybe some contact cleaner on the
battery terminals and the matching computer terminals.

BTW, question for everyone. I recently used both LPS instant contact
cleaner and Det-oxIT (sp?) and I was surprised at how different they
are. The first seemed like it would evaporate quickly,and the second
like it wouldn't evaporate at all.

Is one better than the other? Better for different things?


Also, is it possible to measure the voltage of these batteries with only
2 leads of a voltmeter? Or is there somethiing in the computer that
uses a 3rd contact to turn them on? I don't know what I'm thinking
about that had something like this.

If you can measure the voltage, do that. One of my meters says it
measurese batteries under load, which is a better reading of course, but
I think it only goes up to 9 or 12v. If the charger is 19v, how much
does the battery put out?

And I've had trouble on an Acer netbook with the round charging jack.
Had to pull on the cord just the right way for it to charge. John might
well be right about solder connections.

On 06/22/2017 05:41 PM, micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Wed, 21 Jun 2017 16:24:55
-0700, freely wrote:

I plug the laptop in and it shows battery charging and does actually
increase in % charge.

Push the power button and it starts and I am using it right now.

I pull the AC cord and the laptop dies.

If you're looking at the power window, does it stay there even for a
second and change from charging to battery?

Pushing the power button does nothing.

I changed to a different battery.

Same thing happens. It charges just fine on AC and runs. Pull the AC
and it shuts down.

Is there some setting that says do not use the battery ?

This is probably my fault. I think I set some XP computers to not use
the battery. Let me reset that.

But if that's not it. Normally dirt and oxidation don't interfere with
plain old electricity, but still, maybe some contact cleaner on the
battery terminals and the matching computer terminals.

BTW, question for everyone. I recently used both LPS instant contact
cleaner and Det-oxIT (sp?) and I was surprised at how different they
are. The first seemed like it would evaporate quickly,and the second
like it wouldn't evaporate at all.

Is one better than the other? Better for different things?


Also, is it possible to measure the voltage of these batteries with only
2 leads of a voltmeter? Or is there somethiing in the computer that
uses a 3rd contact to turn them on? I don't know what I'm thinking
about that had something like this.

If you can measure the voltage, do that. One of my meters says it
measurese batteries under load, which is a better reading of course, but
I think it only goes up to 9 or 12v. If the charger is 19v, how much
does the battery put out?

And I've had trouble on an Acer netbook with the round charging jack.
Had to pull on the cord just the right way for it to charge. John might
well be right about solder connections.

I have a spray contact cleaner, more of a spray alcohol. I like it,
but I've usually found a good old soft rubber eraser to be the best. I
know it's abrasive but the old art gum type and an ever so light a wipe.

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Thu, 22 Jun 2017 18:04:48
-0400, Big Al wrote:

On 06/22/2017 05:41 PM, micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Wed, 21 Jun 2017 16:24:55
-0700, freely wrote:

I plug the laptop in and it shows battery charging and does actually
increase in % charge.

Push the power button and it starts and I am using it right now.

I pull the AC cord and the laptop dies.

If you're looking at the power window, does it stay there even for a
second and change from charging to battery?

Pushing the power button does nothing.

I changed to a different battery.

Same thing happens. It charges just fine on AC and runs. Pull the AC
and it shuts down.

Is there some setting that says do not use the battery ?

This is probably my fault. I think I set some XP computers to not use
the battery. Let me reset that.

But if that's not it. Normally dirt and oxidation don't interfere with
plain old electricity, but still, maybe some contact cleaner on the
battery terminals and the matching computer terminals.

BTW, question for everyone. I recently used both LPS instant contact
cleaner and Det-oxIT (sp?) and I was surprised at how different they
are. The first seemed like it would evaporate quickly,and the second
like it wouldn't evaporate at all.

Is one better than the other? Better for different things?


Also, is it possible to measure the voltage of these batteries with only
2 leads of a voltmeter? Or is there somethiing in the computer that
uses a 3rd contact to turn them on? I don't know what I'm thinking
about that had something like this.

If you can measure the voltage, do that. One of my meters says it
measurese batteries under load, which is a better reading of course, but
I think it only goes up to 9 or 12v. If the charger is 19v, how much
does the battery put out?

And I've had trouble on an Acer netbook with the round charging jack.
Had to pull on the cord just the right way for it to charge. John might
well be right about solder connections.

I have a spray contact cleaner, more of a spray alcohol. I like it,
but I've usually found a good old soft rubber eraser to be the best. I
know it's abrasive but the old art gum type and an ever so light a wipe.

For the OP I didnt' think he'd be able to get into the little slots with
an eraser.

But for myself, actually, I bought a 2gig chip from some guy far away
(china), and when it didnt' work, he suggested rubbing it with rubber,
but I read that it's abrasive,as you say, so I wrote him that I was g
oing to ttry the LPS first and when that didnt' work, the DeToxIT, and
if that didn't work, the eraser. Nothing worked and he says he's sendig
me a samsung thing instead.

On 06/22/2017 06:16 PM, micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Thu, 22 Jun 2017 18:04:48
-0400, Big Al wrote:

On 06/22/2017 05:41 PM, micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Wed, 21 Jun 2017 16:24:55
-0700, freely wrote:

I plug the laptop in and it shows battery charging and does actually
increase in % charge.

Push the power button and it starts and I am using it right now.

I pull the AC cord and the laptop dies.

If you're looking at the power window, does it stay there even for a
second and change from charging to battery?

Pushing the power button does nothing.

I changed to a different battery.

Same thing happens. It charges just fine on AC and runs. Pull the AC
and it shuts down.

Is there some setting that says do not use the battery ?

This is probably my fault. I think I set some XP computers to not use
the battery. Let me reset that.

But if that's not it. Normally dirt and oxidation don't interfere with
plain old electricity, but still, maybe some contact cleaner on the
battery terminals and the matching computer terminals.

BTW, question for everyone. I recently used both LPS instant contact
cleaner and Det-oxIT (sp?) and I was surprised at how different they
are. The first seemed like it would evaporate quickly,and the second
like it wouldn't evaporate at all.

Is one better than the other? Better for different things?


Also, is it possible to measure the voltage of these batteries with only
2 leads of a voltmeter? Or is there somethiing in the computer that
uses a 3rd contact to turn them on? I don't know what I'm thinking
about that had something like this.

If you can measure the voltage, do that. One of my meters says it
measurese batteries under load, which is a better reading of course, but
I think it only goes up to 9 or 12v. If the charger is 19v, how much
does the battery put out?

And I've had trouble on an Acer netbook with the round charging jack.
Had to pull on the cord just the right way for it to charge. John might
well be right about solder connections.

I have a spray contact cleaner, more of a spray alcohol. I like it,
but I've usually found a good old soft rubber eraser to be the best. I
know it's abrasive but the old art gum type and an ever so light a wipe.

For the OP I didnt' think he'd be able to get into the little slots with
an eraser.

But for myself, actually, I bought a 2gig chip from some guy far away
(china), and when it didnt' work, he suggested rubbing it with rubber,
but I read that it's abrasive,as you say, so I wrote him that I was g
oing to ttry the LPS first and when that didnt' work, the DeToxIT, and
if that didn't work, the eraser. Nothing worked and he says he's sendig
me a samsung thing instead.

Some times they just are bad. I just replaced a palmrest on my laptop
and after assembly the power would not come on...oh sh**. Broken ribbon
cable on the power button circuit board. Luckily I could cannibalize
from the old palmrest and all is fine. But scary.

micky wrote:

Also, is it possible to measure the voltage of these batteries with only
2 leads of a voltmeter?

Practice varies.

I can find packs with controls and packs without.

You'll know, when you can't get a reading :-)

Two terminals on either end, are likely to be batt+
and batt-. So it's unlikely your next post will be
about an exploding battery. The power pins aren't
adjacent to one another, on purpose.

| | | | | | | | |

+ + - - --- contacts on either end should carry the power
--- two terminals are used to meet the necessary current
carrying capacity. The contacts in the middle are
for logic, such as fuel gauge SCL/SDA or some other
serial scheme.

The number of cells, times the cell voltage for that family
of cells, tell you what voltage to expect. For example, a
possible value might be 14.4 volts. The wall adapter can be
19V. It doesn't seem they use any booster, and I suspect
the charging circuit uses a linear connection from the 19V
supply, to the battery pack. The circuit used, during charging,
has to implement a constant current (as otherwise, the wall adapter
would switch off on overload, amongst other effects). A too-high
voltage of wall adapter, can cause the charging circuit to burn
out prematurely (empirical evidence). The tolerance on the
wall adapter, is +/- 0.5V. That's how closely your after-market
wall adapter, has to match the original, in terms of specs.

And think carefully, about the bootstrapping process. If the
battery is "cut off", where will the electrical signal come
from to operate the On/Off control ? If the laptop has no juice,
how can it operate the control to make juice ? I think the answer
is, the On/Off control is "static", and is flipped to the On state
as soon as the pack is inserted into the laptop. Rather than the
laptop using the Power button and some logic, to turn the pack
on. In other words, if there is an On/Off control, it's there to
cause the battery pack to only energize the contacts, if the
pack is seated in the laptop bay. The On/Off control cannot
be tied into the Power button. It's basically a signal that
says "I know I'm now safely stowed in the battery bay".

So what you'd do in that case, is a "pin scan". Place your black
lead on one end of the pack, and sweep with the red lead towards
the other end. If any of the middle pins "seem" to have power
(a 14.4V signal), that could be the On/Off control pin. If you
get nothing in your sweep, repeat the process, starting from
the other end, and see what you get. Set your meter to 20V while
doing the scan (I don't know of any packs that use more than that,
but there might be some). The label on the pack might mention the
nominal value.

And *never* measure current with a $20 multimeter. Now, that
may seem strange coming from a hardware guy, but I almost never
measure current with such instruments. The danger is too high.
Either your shunt will fall apart, you'll touch a lead which
is energized and shock yourself, and so on. I use a clamp-on
DC ammeter for current, because the shock hazard is "almost zero".
Such meters cost around $300 for AC/DC and maybe $100 for AC only.
You want the DC kind (Hall probe based). I've measured the 15 amps
on my central air compressor, the 150 amps on my car starter, safely,
using that meter. Anyone who regularly uses the shunt in their
Harbour Freight multimeter, has likely burned it out by now. It
only has a 10 amp rating, and sooner or later, you'll pop it
(or the fuse they have in line with it). If I absolutely had
to do current with a Harbour Freight, I'd be fitting spade
tongues and screwing down the electrical connections, so nothing
can come loose in the middle of an experiment. The computer
speakers on the other computer, have wiring with these on
the ends :-)

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/14...g?v=1478050269

Paul

micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Thu, 22 Jun 2017 18:04:48
-0400, Big Al wrote:

On 06/22/2017 05:41 PM, micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Wed, 21 Jun 2017 16:24:55
-0700, freely wrote:

I plug the laptop in and it shows battery charging and does actually
increase in % charge.

Push the power button and it starts and I am using it right now.

I pull the AC cord and the laptop dies.
If you're looking at the power window, does it stay there even for a
second and change from charging to battery?

Pushing the power button does nothing.

I changed to a different battery.

Same thing happens. It charges just fine on AC and runs. Pull the AC
and it shuts down.

Is there some setting that says do not use the battery ?
This is probably my fault. I think I set some XP computers to not use
the battery. Let me reset that.

But if that's not it. Normally dirt and oxidation don't interfere with
plain old electricity, but still, maybe some contact cleaner on the
battery terminals and the matching computer terminals.

BTW, question for everyone. I recently used both LPS instant contact
cleaner and Det-oxIT (sp?) and I was surprised at how different they
are. The first seemed like it would evaporate quickly,and the second
like it wouldn't evaporate at all.

Is one better than the other? Better for different things?


Also, is it possible to measure the voltage of these batteries with only
2 leads of a voltmeter? Or is there somethiing in the computer that
uses a 3rd contact to turn them on? I don't know what I'm thinking
about that had something like this.

If you can measure the voltage, do that. One of my meters says it
measurese batteries under load, which is a better reading of course, but
I think it only goes up to 9 or 12v. If the charger is 19v, how much
does the battery put out?

And I've had trouble on an Acer netbook with the round charging jack.
Had to pull on the cord just the right way for it to charge. John might
well be right about solder connections.

I have a spray contact cleaner, more of a spray alcohol. I like it,
but I've usually found a good old soft rubber eraser to be the best. I
know it's abrasive but the old art gum type and an ever so light a wipe.

For the OP I didnt' think he'd be able to get into the little slots with
an eraser.

(Paul thanks the Good Lord that users cannot bugger with laptop
battery contacts!)

I just looked at my battery again, and the destructive options are limited.

And you don't want to leave any goop on those contacts, which
can drain the battery via "leakage current". Even with the plastic
dividers between plates, you might manage to make a
conducting path, if you put something "rude" enough on there.

Paul