Two computers on one monitor?

Was considering a new computer and was telling some folks of my need to
continue using my old XP box on my ProArt monitor as well as the new box
(but not seeing any good, affordable HDMI and DVI KVM for the situation). I
will still do much of my graphics work on the old machine.

Was told there is now an inexpensive cable that will allow me to use the old
box running through the new box and the ProArt as monitor for any rendering,
manipulation or such from either box. I do not see anything like this out
there but I'm not sure what I'm looking for... and these were photographers
I was speaking with not geeks.

I will likely put 7 Pro on the new box but there exists a slim chance I may
go with 10 Pro.

Is there something like this out there or am I on a goose-chase?


TIA

On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:31:08 -0400, "Jess Fertudei"
wrote:

Was considering a new computer and was telling some folks of my need to
continue using my old XP box on my ProArt monitor as well as the new box
(but not seeing any good, affordable HDMI and DVI KVM for the situation). I
will still do much of my graphics work on the old machine.

Was told there is now an inexpensive cable that will allow me to use the old
box running through the new box and the ProArt as monitor for any rendering,
manipulation or such from either box. I do not see anything like this out
there but I'm not sure what I'm looking for... and these were photographers
I was speaking with not geeks.

I will likely put 7 Pro on the new box but there exists a slim chance I may
go with 10 Pro.

Is there something like this out there or am I on a goose-chase?

Not sure - I looked a while back and didnt find much.

Ideally something clever ebough to handle "picture in picture" would
be good, and the ability to flip between inputs easily.

1 alternative is to connect different systems using a different
monitor interface type
- a good monitor often has multiple ports on the back of different
types, or something designed to be a TV often has several HDMI
ports....

Switching isnt something these systems seem to be designed to make
easy though - several button presses may be needed to flip "channels",
or your monitor may detect a live interface when turned on if only 1
is powered.

So I have 2 systems connected to a 1536 line monitor (mainly to save
the desk space) - 1 using DVI and the other using VGA.


TIA








Stephen Hope
Replace xyz with ntl to reply

On 4/16/2017 7:31 AM, Jess Fertudei wrote:
Was considering a new computer and was telling some folks of my need to
continue using my old XP box on my ProArt monitor as well as the new box
(but not seeing any good, affordable HDMI and DVI KVM for the situation). I
will still do much of my graphics work on the old machine.

Was told there is now an inexpensive cable that will allow me to use the old
box running through the new box and the ProArt as monitor for any rendering,
manipulation or such from either box. I do not see anything like this out
there but I'm not sure what I'm looking for... and these were photographers
I was speaking with not geeks.

I will likely put 7 Pro on the new box but there exists a slim chance I may
go with 10 Pro.

Is there something like this out there or am I on a goose-chase?


TIA
Can't tell which monitor you're using, but most monitors have multiple
input ports that can be selected. Depending on which interfaces you
have on the computers and which interfaces the monitor can accept,
there are possibilities to convert one hardware interface format to
another. For example, a simple passive adapter will let you plug
HDMI into a DVI port. The other way, not so much.

Depending on the graphics speed capability you require, you can use
windows desktop sharing (remote desktop) to display one computer screen
on another.
I do most of my tinkering using MS desktop sharing or VNC to access
windows 10 or linux computers in the back room from the easy chair
in front of my win7 machine. With gigabit ethernet, it's pretty quick.
Not too bad on 100MB.

VNC has the advantage that you can still see and interact with
the screen on the other machine.
MS desktop sharing takes over and blanks the screen on the remote
machine. I've never tried MS remote assistance to see how that behaves.

On 4/16/17 8:31 AM, Jess Fertudei wrote:
Was considering a new computer and was telling some folks of my need to
continue using my old XP box on my ProArt monitor as well as the new box
(but not seeing any good, affordable HDMI and DVI KVM for the situation). I
will still do much of my graphics work on the old machine.

Was told there is now an inexpensive cable that will allow me to use the old
box running through the new box and the ProArt as monitor for any rendering,
manipulation or such from either box. I do not see anything like this out
there but I'm not sure what I'm looking for... and these were photographers
I was speaking with not geeks.

I will likely put 7 Pro on the new box but there exists a slim chance I may
go with 10 Pro.

Is there something like this out there or am I on a goose-chase?

What about a plain, old-fashioned switch box?


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 51.0.1 (64 bit)
Thunderbird 45.7.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

Jess Fertudei wrote:
Was considering a new computer and was telling some folks of my need to
continue using my old XP box on my ProArt monitor as well as the new box
(but not seeing any good, affordable HDMI and DVI KVM for the situation). I
will still do much of my graphics work on the old machine.

Was told there is now an inexpensive cable that will allow me to use the old
box running through the new box and the ProArt as monitor for any rendering,
manipulation or such from either box. I do not see anything like this out
there but I'm not sure what I'm looking for... and these were photographers
I was speaking with not geeks.

I will likely put 7 Pro on the new box but there exists a slim chance I may
go with 10 Pro.

Is there something like this out there or am I on a goose-chase?


TIA

There are two techniques.

1) On a regular KVM, you switch data sources.

2) In the old days, for VGA, there was passthru or video overlay
as a technique.

VGA (In) (Out) VGA
Master device -------- Intermediate Device --------- VGA Monitor

The intermediate device, uses the HSYNC and VSYNC coming from
the Master. The VGA input is digitized. If the Intermediate Device
wants to do PIP, it replaces the output with its own output. The
benefit of doing this, is glitchless operation.

In many cases, the Intermediate device replaces the whole screen.
This was done in game situations.

VGA VGA
Crappy Video card ---------- 3DFX Voodoo ---------- VGA Monitor

I actually had such a setup on my PTP Macintosh years ago.
When you would start a game (that could use the Voodoo), the regular
Mac desktop image would be replaced by the Quake2 output from the
Voodoo. And in this case, both of the video cards were inside
the same tower, with the overlay cable (short VGA cable) going
from one card to the next. Connectix Virtual PC for Macintosh,
could drive the Voodoo directly (no virtualization), making it
possible for a PC game to render on a Mac screen. All via overlay.

(2) isn't very appropriate today. (1), the KVM, makes more sense.

If the KVM function can be reduced to one chip, these boxes should
be dirt cheap. The problem is getting the sales volume, to pay for
chip design NRE. The remainder of the cost, is cabling and connectors.
A basic KVM really shouldn't be any more expensive to make, than
a $40 video card. The perception is, KVMs are only used in business,
so they will charge "business rates".

Paul

Jess Fertudei wrote:

Was considering a new computer and was telling some folks of my need to
continue using my old XP box on my ProArt monitor as well as the new box
(but not seeing any good, affordable HDMI and DVI KVM for the situation). I
will still do much of my graphics work on the old machine.

Was told there is now an inexpensive cable that will allow me to use the old
box running through the new box and the ProArt as monitor for any rendering,
manipulation or such from either box. I do not see anything like this out
there but I'm not sure what I'm looking for... and these were photographers
I was speaking with not geeks.

I will likely put 7 Pro on the new box but there exists a slim chance I may
go with 10 Pro.

Does the monitor have multiple inputs? If so, connect one computer to
one input on the monitor and connect the other computer to a different
input on the monitor. Then use the monitor's input switch to select
which computer you want to see.

Asus makes the ProArt series of monitors. You did not mention the
brand. Not everything uses Asus monitor. ProArt is a series of
monitors. You did not specify YOUR particular model. Read the manual
or just look at the monitor to see how many inputs it has.

If the monitor does not support multiple inputs then look at getting a
KVM (Keyboard-Video-Mouse) switch. Multiple computers hook to it and it
connects to one monitor.

"Paul" wrote in message
news
Jess Fertudei wrote:
Was considering a new computer and was telling some folks of my need to
continue using my old XP box on my ProArt monitor as well as the new box
(but not seeing any good, affordable HDMI and DVI KVM for the situation).
I will still do much of my graphics work on the old machine.

Was told there is now an inexpensive cable that will allow me to use the
old box running through the new box and the ProArt as monitor for any
rendering, manipulation or such from either box. I do not see anything
like this out there but I'm not sure what I'm looking for... and these
were photographers I was speaking with not geeks.

I will likely put 7 Pro on the new box but there exists a slim chance I
may go with 10 Pro.

Is there something like this out there or am I on a goose-chase?


TIA

There are two techniques.

1) On a regular KVM, you switch data sources.

2) In the old days, for VGA, there was passthru or video overlay
as a technique.

VGA (In) (Out) VGA
Master device -------- Intermediate Device --------- VGA Monitor

The intermediate device, uses the HSYNC and VSYNC coming from
the Master. The VGA input is digitized. If the Intermediate Device
wants to do PIP, it replaces the output with its own output. The
benefit of doing this, is glitchless operation.

In many cases, the Intermediate device replaces the whole screen.
This was done in game situations.

VGA VGA
Crappy Video card ---------- 3DFX Voodoo ---------- VGA Monitor

I actually had such a setup on my PTP Macintosh years ago.
When you would start a game (that could use the Voodoo), the regular
Mac desktop image would be replaced by the Quake2 output from the
Voodoo. And in this case, both of the video cards were inside
the same tower, with the overlay cable (short VGA cable) going
from one card to the next. Connectix Virtual PC for Macintosh,
could drive the Voodoo directly (no virtualization), making it
possible for a PC game to render on a Mac screen. All via overlay.

(2) isn't very appropriate today. (1), the KVM, makes more sense.

If the KVM function can be reduced to one chip, these boxes should
be dirt cheap. The problem is getting the sales volume, to pay for
chip design NRE. The remainder of the cost, is cabling and connectors.
A basic KVM really shouldn't be any more expensive to make, than
a $40 video card. The perception is, KVMs are only used in business,
so they will charge "business rates".



And that's the thing, here... If I were to go the KVM route I would need an
HDMI out with one HDMI in and one DVI in and a USB keyboard in and a
wireless USB mouse in. Maybe I don't look in the right spots or use the best
search terms but I really don't see much out there (and the few I've seen
were for large dollars). It seems it might be better to just let each box
have it's own input devices and just switch video but are there switches
that will let the boxes remain active while the other is in use? I could, I
guess, just go DVI from both boxes to the KVM but that would seem to me like
it might limit some of the advantages of a new box.
I read some reviews about issues so it must not be the same as just shutting
the monitor off??? Maybe the reviews were bogus or from reviewers with even
less modern experience than myself. That was some time ago and I cannot seem
to find any of that search history in my history bar.

Jess Fertudei wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
news
Jess Fertudei wrote:
Was considering a new computer and was telling some folks of my need to
continue using my old XP box on my ProArt monitor as well as the new box
(but not seeing any good, affordable HDMI and DVI KVM for the situation).
I will still do much of my graphics work on the old machine.

Was told there is now an inexpensive cable that will allow me to use the
old box running through the new box and the ProArt as monitor for any
rendering, manipulation or such from either box. I do not see anything
like this out there but I'm not sure what I'm looking for... and these
were photographers I was speaking with not geeks.

I will likely put 7 Pro on the new box but there exists a slim chance I
may go with 10 Pro.

Is there something like this out there or am I on a goose-chase?


TIA
There are two techniques.

1) On a regular KVM, you switch data sources.

2) In the old days, for VGA, there was passthru or video overlay
as a technique.

VGA (In) (Out) VGA
Master device -------- Intermediate Device --------- VGA Monitor

The intermediate device, uses the HSYNC and VSYNC coming from
the Master. The VGA input is digitized. If the Intermediate Device
wants to do PIP, it replaces the output with its own output. The
benefit of doing this, is glitchless operation.

In many cases, the Intermediate device replaces the whole screen.
This was done in game situations.

VGA VGA
Crappy Video card ---------- 3DFX Voodoo ---------- VGA Monitor

I actually had such a setup on my PTP Macintosh years ago.
When you would start a game (that could use the Voodoo), the regular
Mac desktop image would be replaced by the Quake2 output from the
Voodoo. And in this case, both of the video cards were inside
the same tower, with the overlay cable (short VGA cable) going
from one card to the next. Connectix Virtual PC for Macintosh,
could drive the Voodoo directly (no virtualization), making it
possible for a PC game to render on a Mac screen. All via overlay.

(2) isn't very appropriate today. (1), the KVM, makes more sense.

If the KVM function can be reduced to one chip, these boxes should
be dirt cheap. The problem is getting the sales volume, to pay for
chip design NRE. The remainder of the cost, is cabling and connectors.
A basic KVM really shouldn't be any more expensive to make, than
a $40 video card. The perception is, KVMs are only used in business,
so they will charge "business rates".



And that's the thing, here... If I were to go the KVM route I would need an
HDMI out with one HDMI in and one DVI in and a USB keyboard in and a
wireless USB mouse in. Maybe I don't look in the right spots or use the best
search terms but I really don't see much out there (and the few I've seen
were for large dollars). It seems it might be better to just let each box
have it's own input devices and just switch video but are there switches
that will let the boxes remain active while the other is in use? I could, I
guess, just go DVI from both boxes to the KVM but that would seem to me like
it might limit some of the advantages of a new box.
I read some reviews about issues so it must not be the same as just shutting
the monitor off??? Maybe the reviews were bogus or from reviewers with even
less modern experience than myself. That was some time ago and I cannot seem
to find any of that search history in my history bar.

Your best bet, would probably be to select identical input formats from
both computers. I would expect a KVM with two DVI inputs on it, to be
cheaper than a two-computer KVM with all sorts of different inputs on it.

You start with the monitor, the native resolution, the connectors it
has. You have to work from both directions, to select a good KVM.

I don't see a particular reason a KVM cannot keep the computer output
terminated in its characteristic impedance. And this is a difference
between a fully digital KVM, versus some horrible mechanical switch.
Mechanically switching digital signals, causes all sorts of detection
issues for the computer. Whereas, if the KVM terminates and re-clocks
the data, the interface can be a bit cleaner.

As for DVI itself, it has two resolution limits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

Single link: 1920 x 1200

Dual link: 2560 X 1600

And, there will be KVMs with single-link interfaces or with
dual-link interfaces. Say you had an Apple Cinema display, then
you might need dual-link on both sides, as well as at least one
dual-link video card port on each computer. (Some older cards
could have more than one DVI connector, but perhaps only
one connector had dual-links.)

There is a picture in that article, which shows five different
connectors. You can see the dual-link flavor, populates more
of the pins. In some cases, connectors and their pin counts,
don't actually reflect the functionality provided. For example,
on cabling, a connector chosen may have room for the VGA
signals to flow, but no wires connect those pins together.
The pins are only on the connector, so the mating connector plates
don't get busted off. And this means, you want proof in the specification
that the devices involved, use or need dual-link.

Paul

"Paul" wrote in message
news
Jess Fertudei wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
news
Jess Fertudei wrote:
Was considering a new computer and was telling some folks of my need to
continue using my old XP box on my ProArt monitor as well as the new
box (but not seeing any good, affordable HDMI and DVI KVM for the
situation). I will still do much of my graphics work on the old
machine.

Was told there is now an inexpensive cable that will allow me to use
the old box running through the new box and the ProArt as monitor for
any rendering, manipulation or such from either box. I do not see
anything like this out there but I'm not sure what I'm looking for...
and these were photographers I was speaking with not geeks.

I will likely put 7 Pro on the new box but there exists a slim chance I
may go with 10 Pro.

Is there something like this out there or am I on a goose-chase?


TIA
There are two techniques.

1) On a regular KVM, you switch data sources.

2) In the old days, for VGA, there was passthru or video overlay
as a technique.

VGA (In) (Out) VGA
Master device -------- Intermediate Device --------- VGA Monitor

The intermediate device, uses the HSYNC and VSYNC coming from
the Master. The VGA input is digitized. If the Intermediate Device
wants to do PIP, it replaces the output with its own output. The
benefit of doing this, is glitchless operation.

In many cases, the Intermediate device replaces the whole screen.
This was done in game situations.

VGA VGA
Crappy Video card ---------- 3DFX Voodoo ---------- VGA Monitor

I actually had such a setup on my PTP Macintosh years ago.
When you would start a game (that could use the Voodoo), the regular
Mac desktop image would be replaced by the Quake2 output from the
Voodoo. And in this case, both of the video cards were inside
the same tower, with the overlay cable (short VGA cable) going
from one card to the next. Connectix Virtual PC for Macintosh,
could drive the Voodoo directly (no virtualization), making it
possible for a PC game to render on a Mac screen. All via overlay.

(2) isn't very appropriate today. (1), the KVM, makes more sense.

If the KVM function can be reduced to one chip, these boxes should
be dirt cheap. The problem is getting the sales volume, to pay for
chip design NRE. The remainder of the cost, is cabling and connectors.
A basic KVM really shouldn't be any more expensive to make, than
a $40 video card. The perception is, KVMs are only used in business,
so they will charge "business rates".



And that's the thing, here... If I were to go the KVM route I would need
an HDMI out with one HDMI in and one DVI in and a USB keyboard in and a
wireless USB mouse in. Maybe I don't look in the right spots or use the
best search terms but I really don't see much out there (and the few I've
seen were for large dollars). It seems it might be better to just let
each box have it's own input devices and just switch video but are there
switches that will let the boxes remain active while the other is in use?
I could, I guess, just go DVI from both boxes to the KVM but that would
seem to me like it might limit some of the advantages of a new box.
I read some reviews about issues so it must not be the same as just
shutting the monitor off??? Maybe the reviews were bogus or from
reviewers with even less modern experience than myself. That was some
time ago and I cannot seem to find any of that search history in my
history bar.

Your best bet, would probably be to select identical input formats from
both computers. I would expect a KVM with two DVI inputs on it, to be
cheaper than a two-computer KVM with all sorts of different inputs on it.

You start with the monitor, the native resolution, the connectors it
has. You have to work from both directions, to select a good KVM.

I don't see a particular reason a KVM cannot keep the computer output
terminated in its characteristic impedance. And this is a difference
between a fully digital KVM, versus some horrible mechanical switch.
Mechanically switching digital signals, causes all sorts of detection
issues for the computer. Whereas, if the KVM terminates and re-clocks
the data, the interface can be a bit cleaner.

As for DVI itself, it has two resolution limits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

Single link: 1920 x 1200

Dual link: 2560 X 1600

And, there will be KVMs with single-link interfaces or with
dual-link interfaces. Say you had an Apple Cinema display, then
you might need dual-link on both sides, as well as at least one
dual-link video card port on each computer. (Some older cards
could have more than one DVI connector, but perhaps only
one connector had dual-links.)

There is a picture in that article, which shows five different
connectors. You can see the dual-link flavor, populates more
of the pins. In some cases, connectors and their pin counts,
don't actually reflect the functionality provided. For example,
on cabling, a connector chosen may have room for the VGA
signals to flow, but no wires connect those pins together.
The pins are only on the connector, so the mating connector plates
don't get busted off. And this means, you want proof in the specification
that the devices involved, use or need dual-link.

Paul


Thanks.

I guess I could use single DVI all the way around as I don't do much more
intensive stuff than You Tubes and such or photoshop type stuff with heavy
duty plugins and the monitor (ProArt 246) maxes at 1920x1200 anyhow. The
monitor is, however, heavily used and I worry about its lifespan at this
point and the day I have to fork out the bigger bucks to replace it with one
of it's successors... graphics monitors are not cheapos and I'm not wealthy.
(This eventuallity also plays into my decision making about a new box,
budget-wise but that will have to be another thread.) 'Will I be happy using
the next generation of ProArts at this resolution and DVI input' is a
question that I have been wondering about.

I have experimented with input switching on the monitor with some very
undesirable results, so I don't want to do that.

Can I use a DVI KVM and use only the video and let each box keep it's own
input devices?

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...
Jess Fertudei wrote:

Was considering a new computer and was telling some folks of my need to
continue using my old XP box on my ProArt monitor as well as the new box
(but not seeing any good, affordable HDMI and DVI KVM for the situation).
I
will still do much of my graphics work on the old machine.

Was told there is now an inexpensive cable that will allow me to use the
old
box running through the new box and the ProArt as monitor for any
rendering,
manipulation or such from either box. I do not see anything like this out
there but I'm not sure what I'm looking for... and these were
photographers
I was speaking with not geeks.

I will likely put 7 Pro on the new box but there exists a slim chance I
may
go with 10 Pro.

Does the monitor have multiple inputs? If so, connect one computer to
one input on the monitor and connect the other computer to a different
input on the monitor. Then use the monitor's input switch to select
which computer you want to see.

Asus makes the ProArt series of monitors. You did not mention the
brand. Not everything uses Asus monitor. ProArt is a series of
monitors. You did not specify YOUR particular model. Read the manual
or just look at the monitor to see how many inputs it has.

If the monitor does not support multiple inputs then look at getting a
KVM (Keyboard-Video-Mouse) switch. Multiple computers hook to it and it
connects to one monitor.


Thanks.

I should have mentioned that it's a ProArt PA246. As to the suggestion that
you and others have about switching inputs... I have tried this before with
a desktop and laptop only to run into a very frustrating situation:

When the monitor senses no signal on the selected input, it powers down...
not even allowing you to activate the menu to switch to the active device.
Doesn't seem like a biggie until you start using it in real-time real-life
and can't use one computer until you have booted the other so that the
monitor can be switched to the desired input. If it weren't for that, I
might have tried it out for this situation. Also... the manual says I may
not use PIP when one input is on the HDMI and one on the DVI and even if I
could the PIP even at it's largest is very small with no 'swap' feature
(unless it's right under my nose somewhere).

Can I use a KVM with two DVI in and one DVI out and not use the Keyboard or
Mouse inputs?

Jess Fertudei wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
news
Jess Fertudei wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
news Jess Fertudei wrote:
Was considering a new computer and was telling some folks of my need to
continue using my old XP box on my ProArt monitor as well as the new
box (but not seeing any good, affordable HDMI and DVI KVM for the
situation). I will still do much of my graphics work on the old
machine.

Was told there is now an inexpensive cable that will allow me to use
the old box running through the new box and the ProArt as monitor for
any rendering, manipulation or such from either box. I do not see
anything like this out there but I'm not sure what I'm looking for...
and these were photographers I was speaking with not geeks.

I will likely put 7 Pro on the new box but there exists a slim chance I
may go with 10 Pro.

Is there something like this out there or am I on a goose-chase?


TIA
There are two techniques.

1) On a regular KVM, you switch data sources.

2) In the old days, for VGA, there was passthru or video overlay
as a technique.

VGA (In) (Out) VGA
Master device -------- Intermediate Device --------- VGA Monitor

The intermediate device, uses the HSYNC and VSYNC coming from
the Master. The VGA input is digitized. If the Intermediate Device
wants to do PIP, it replaces the output with its own output. The
benefit of doing this, is glitchless operation.

In many cases, the Intermediate device replaces the whole screen.
This was done in game situations.

VGA VGA
Crappy Video card ---------- 3DFX Voodoo ---------- VGA Monitor

I actually had such a setup on my PTP Macintosh years ago.
When you would start a game (that could use the Voodoo), the regular
Mac desktop image would be replaced by the Quake2 output from the
Voodoo. And in this case, both of the video cards were inside
the same tower, with the overlay cable (short VGA cable) going
from one card to the next. Connectix Virtual PC for Macintosh,
could drive the Voodoo directly (no virtualization), making it
possible for a PC game to render on a Mac screen. All via overlay.

(2) isn't very appropriate today. (1), the KVM, makes more sense.

If the KVM function can be reduced to one chip, these boxes should
be dirt cheap. The problem is getting the sales volume, to pay for
chip design NRE. The remainder of the cost, is cabling and connectors.
A basic KVM really shouldn't be any more expensive to make, than
a $40 video card. The perception is, KVMs are only used in business,
so they will charge "business rates".


And that's the thing, here... If I were to go the KVM route I would need
an HDMI out with one HDMI in and one DVI in and a USB keyboard in and a
wireless USB mouse in. Maybe I don't look in the right spots or use the
best search terms but I really don't see much out there (and the few I've
seen were for large dollars). It seems it might be better to just let
each box have it's own input devices and just switch video but are there
switches that will let the boxes remain active while the other is in use?
I could, I guess, just go DVI from both boxes to the KVM but that would
seem to me like it might limit some of the advantages of a new box.
I read some reviews about issues so it must not be the same as just
shutting the monitor off??? Maybe the reviews were bogus or from
reviewers with even less modern experience than myself. That was some
time ago and I cannot seem to find any of that search history in my
history bar.
Your best bet, would probably be to select identical input formats from
both computers. I would expect a KVM with two DVI inputs on it, to be
cheaper than a two-computer KVM with all sorts of different inputs on it.

You start with the monitor, the native resolution, the connectors it
has. You have to work from both directions, to select a good KVM.

I don't see a particular reason a KVM cannot keep the computer output
terminated in its characteristic impedance. And this is a difference
between a fully digital KVM, versus some horrible mechanical switch.
Mechanically switching digital signals, causes all sorts of detection
issues for the computer. Whereas, if the KVM terminates and re-clocks
the data, the interface can be a bit cleaner.

As for DVI itself, it has two resolution limits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

Single link: 1920 x 1200

Dual link: 2560 X 1600

And, there will be KVMs with single-link interfaces or with
dual-link interfaces. Say you had an Apple Cinema display, then
you might need dual-link on both sides, as well as at least one
dual-link video card port on each computer. (Some older cards
could have more than one DVI connector, but perhaps only
one connector had dual-links.)

There is a picture in that article, which shows five different
connectors. You can see the dual-link flavor, populates more
of the pins. In some cases, connectors and their pin counts,
don't actually reflect the functionality provided. For example,
on cabling, a connector chosen may have room for the VGA
signals to flow, but no wires connect those pins together.
The pins are only on the connector, so the mating connector plates
don't get busted off. And this means, you want proof in the specification
that the devices involved, use or need dual-link.

Paul


Thanks.

I guess I could use single DVI all the way around as I don't do much more
intensive stuff than You Tubes and such or photoshop type stuff with heavy
duty plugins and the monitor (ProArt 246) maxes at 1920x1200 anyhow. The
monitor is, however, heavily used and I worry about its lifespan at this
point and the day I have to fork out the bigger bucks to replace it with one
of it's successors... graphics monitors are not cheapos and I'm not wealthy.
(This eventuallity also plays into my decision making about a new box,
budget-wise but that will have to be another thread.) 'Will I be happy using
the next generation of ProArts at this resolution and DVI input' is a
question that I have been wondering about.

I have experimented with input switching on the monitor with some very
undesirable results, so I don't want to do that.

Can I use a DVI KVM and use only the video and let each box keep it's own
input devices?

I would think so. There should be no problem with the computers
each having their own keyboard and mouse.

I tried the Asus PA246Q page, and they don't verify it's single-link
on DVI. You're supposed to be able to do 1920x1200 @ 60Hz over single-link
using CVTRB (reduced blanking interval). So a little 2 input DVI box
ought to do it.

If you're getting some big gamer video card, there might not be DVI on it.
You can probably get some sort of DisplayPort to DVI adapter, and because
this is single link, it's probably going to be easier to find, than
some other combinations. On the gamer cards with a ton of outputs
on it, they like the smaller connector form factors such as HDMI
and DisplayPort. Since the royalties on DisplayPort are lower,
DisplayPort is a preference at manufacturing. There is only an
incentive on the two primary ports, to use something different.

If you're using motherboard video, there still seems to be
an assortment of connectors for that. Some motherboards
have three or four connectors (VGA, DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort).

Paul

Jess Fertudei wrote:

When the monitor senses no signal on the selected input, it powers down...
not even allowing you to activate the menu to switch to the active device.

You sure the monitor is powered off? You sure it just isn't showing a
black screen for an input that has no signal? If the latter, you can
still press the menu buttons on the screen to toggle between the inputs
but you'll be doing it blind. Mine does that but I don't have to drill
through menues to get at the input select. For mine, one button
functions as the input select. Although I'm switching blind, I just
press the input button, wait a second to see if something appears, and
if not then press the input button again. Since I only have 3 inputs, I
only have to blindly toggle the input button 2 times maximum (since the
monitor will already one of them selected). In your case, having to
drill down through a menu to get to the Input selection and then toggle
between the inputs means you would have to memorize how many menu
selects to make to get to the Input one and then use that to toggle
between the inputs on the monitor.

Can I use a KVM with two DVI in and one DVI out and not use the Keyboard or
Mouse inputs?

You would be toggling between the video outputs of your 2 computers. If
you don't run their keyboard and mouse outputs through the KVM then you
will need to have a mouse and keyboard connected to each computer.
That's doable but you'll need more space atop your desk.

As another posted suggested, if all you are going to toggle between
hosts is the video then you don't need a KVM, just a video switch. You
might find one in an audio shop. Most computer stores, even online, are
going to direct you to a KVM. So get a KVM and use it only to toggle
between 2 hosts to 1 monitor, and leave your mice and keyboards
separately connected to each host. I have to wonder why you want the
multiple mice and keyboards since you would be using them in the blind
for a host to which the KVM was not currently selecting for a video
source.

Ex: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817399063
Lots of others:
http://tinyurl.com/n7phoxf (Newegg search)
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...eo-switch.html

On 4/16/2017 5:48 PM, Jess Fertudei wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
news
Jess Fertudei wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
news Jess Fertudei wrote:
Was considering a new computer and was telling some folks of my need to
continue using my old XP box on my ProArt monitor as well as the new
box (but not seeing any good, affordable HDMI and DVI KVM for the
situation). I will still do much of my graphics work on the old
machine.

Was told there is now an inexpensive cable that will allow me to use
the old box running through the new box and the ProArt as monitor for
any rendering, manipulation or such from either box. I do not see
anything like this out there but I'm not sure what I'm looking for...
and these were photographers I was speaking with not geeks.

I will likely put 7 Pro on the new box but there exists a slim chance I
may go with 10 Pro.

Is there something like this out there or am I on a goose-chase?


TIA
There are two techniques.

1) On a regular KVM, you switch data sources.

2) In the old days, for VGA, there was passthru or video overlay
as a technique.

VGA (In) (Out) VGA
Master device -------- Intermediate Device --------- VGA Monitor

The intermediate device, uses the HSYNC and VSYNC coming from
the Master. The VGA input is digitized. If the Intermediate Device
wants to do PIP, it replaces the output with its own output. The
benefit of doing this, is glitchless operation.

In many cases, the Intermediate device replaces the whole screen.
This was done in game situations.

VGA VGA
Crappy Video card ---------- 3DFX Voodoo ---------- VGA Monitor

I actually had such a setup on my PTP Macintosh years ago.
When you would start a game (that could use the Voodoo), the regular
Mac desktop image would be replaced by the Quake2 output from the
Voodoo. And in this case, both of the video cards were inside
the same tower, with the overlay cable (short VGA cable) going
from one card to the next. Connectix Virtual PC for Macintosh,
could drive the Voodoo directly (no virtualization), making it
possible for a PC game to render on a Mac screen. All via overlay.

(2) isn't very appropriate today. (1), the KVM, makes more sense.

If the KVM function can be reduced to one chip, these boxes should
be dirt cheap. The problem is getting the sales volume, to pay for
chip design NRE. The remainder of the cost, is cabling and connectors.
A basic KVM really shouldn't be any more expensive to make, than
a $40 video card. The perception is, KVMs are only used in business,
so they will charge "business rates".



And that's the thing, here... If I were to go the KVM route I would need
an HDMI out with one HDMI in and one DVI in and a USB keyboard in and a
wireless USB mouse in. Maybe I don't look in the right spots or use the
best search terms but I really don't see much out there (and the few I've
seen were for large dollars). It seems it might be better to just let
each box have it's own input devices and just switch video but are there
switches that will let the boxes remain active while the other is in use?
I could, I guess, just go DVI from both boxes to the KVM but that would
seem to me like it might limit some of the advantages of a new box.
I read some reviews about issues so it must not be the same as just
shutting the monitor off??? Maybe the reviews were bogus or from
reviewers with even less modern experience than myself. That was some
time ago and I cannot seem to find any of that search history in my
history bar.

Your best bet, would probably be to select identical input formats from
both computers. I would expect a KVM with two DVI inputs on it, to be
cheaper than a two-computer KVM with all sorts of different inputs on it.

You start with the monitor, the native resolution, the connectors it
has. You have to work from both directions, to select a good KVM.

I don't see a particular reason a KVM cannot keep the computer output
terminated in its characteristic impedance. And this is a difference
between a fully digital KVM, versus some horrible mechanical switch.
Mechanically switching digital signals, causes all sorts of detection
issues for the computer. Whereas, if the KVM terminates and re-clocks
the data, the interface can be a bit cleaner.

As for DVI itself, it has two resolution limits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

Single link: 1920 x 1200

Dual link: 2560 X 1600

And, there will be KVMs with single-link interfaces or with
dual-link interfaces. Say you had an Apple Cinema display, then
you might need dual-link on both sides, as well as at least one
dual-link video card port on each computer. (Some older cards
could have more than one DVI connector, but perhaps only
one connector had dual-links.)

There is a picture in that article, which shows five different
connectors. You can see the dual-link flavor, populates more
of the pins. In some cases, connectors and their pin counts,
don't actually reflect the functionality provided. For example,
on cabling, a connector chosen may have room for the VGA
signals to flow, but no wires connect those pins together.
The pins are only on the connector, so the mating connector plates
don't get busted off. And this means, you want proof in the specification
that the devices involved, use or need dual-link.

Paul


Thanks.

I guess I could use single DVI all the way around as I don't do much more
intensive stuff than You Tubes and such or photoshop type stuff with heavy
duty plugins and the monitor (ProArt 246) maxes at 1920x1200 anyhow. The
monitor is, however, heavily used and I worry about its lifespan at this
point and the day I have to fork out the bigger bucks to replace it with one
of it's successors... graphics monitors are not cheapos and I'm not wealthy.
(This eventuallity also plays into my decision making about a new box,
budget-wise but that will have to be another thread.) 'Will I be happy using
the next generation of ProArts at this resolution and DVI input' is a
question that I have been wondering about.

I have experimented with input switching on the monitor with some very
undesirable results, so I don't want to do that.

Can I use a DVI KVM and use only the video and let each box keep it's own
input devices?

You can, but you may have boot issues that get at least one of
the
computer videos misconfigured.

You can use the same input devices.

https://www.raymond.cc/blog/how-to-s...ple-computers/

I've used synergy extensively back in the day.
I had two computers, two monitors, but room for only one keyboard.
And linux on the second system didn't support my touchpad mouse
anyway. I used XP at that time, but the link above is only 4 months
old, suggesting that it's still relevant.

I installed mouse without borders. It seemed to work, but I didn't
use it extensively.

I'd be interested in learning what part of remote desktop or TightVNC
was inadequate. The only issues I've had related to speed.
Watch the youtubes on the direct connection. With gigabit network
they look pretty good on the remote connection.

There are issues when running computers without a hardware monitor.
On my systems, if booted without a monitor attached, the video system
fails to assign a frame buffer and remote display doesn't work.
I fixed it by creating a VGA connector with 75 ohm terminators on
R-G-B signals. That fools the video card into assigning a frame buffer.
Technically, I think you only need one resistor, but it was easier
to cover all bases and not worry about which one.

I've had similar issues with bizarre behavior on the system that
had its monitor disconnected by the screen saver.
Look around in the monitor menus. There may be an "automatic" selection
in the monitor selection menu.

As others have said, if you use a KVM, you really want it to emulate
the ports it's not using so the computers don't get upset.
Those won't be cheap. And it will probably hard to tell which one
to get by reading the EBAY listing.

There's another program called Zonescreen.
It works like VNC in reverse to send the screen to another machine
I've used it with XP, but it hasn't been updated in years.

In message , Paul
writes:
Jess Fertudei wrote:
[]
Can I use a DVI KVM and use only the video and let each box keep
it's own input devices?

I would think so. There should be no problem with the computers
each having their own keyboard and mouse.
[]
+1; after all, the KVMs only try to kid the computer that it's got a K
and M connected all the time anyway.

As VanguardLH says, if you can _find_ a V only switch, that might work;
it depends whether (a) it terminates the unused input in some way, (b)
if it doesn't, do the graphics hardware(s) in the computer(s) do
something if they suddenly find themselves unterminated. You could
easily verify this by just unplugging their output cables (and then
plugging them back of course, so you can see if they've sulked).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Yet I still seem to be master of my fate. The boat may be only a canoe, but I'm
paddling it. (Katharine Hepburn)

"Jess Fertudei" wrote in message
...
Was considering a new computer and was telling some folks of my need to
continue using my old XP box on my ProArt monitor as well as the new box
(but not seeing any good, affordable HDMI and DVI KVM for the situation).
I will still do much of my graphics work on the old machine.

Was told there is now an inexpensive cable that will allow me to use the
old box running through the new box and the ProArt as monitor for any
rendering, manipulation or such from either box. I do not see anything
like this out there but I'm not sure what I'm looking for... and these
were photographers I was speaking with not geeks.

I will likely put 7 Pro on the new box but there exists a slim chance I
may go with 10 Pro.

Is there something like this out there or am I on a goose-chase?


TIA

You didn't mention here or in any of your replies, but what would be the
problem with having 2 monitors and using something like Multiplicity 3 KM to
switch between the two, using one keyboard and one mouse to control the 2
PC's? I use it for my laptop and and desktop PC, and it works great.

http://edgerunner.com/multiplicity/#pricing#pricing_section
--

SC Tom