Dual Boot to "Identical" Set-ups

I have Win 8.1 on my desktop and would like to create a dual boot 8.1
and 10 when 10 comes out.

There are plenty of sites that tell how to create a separate partition
for 10, etc.

What I'd like to know is whether or not there's a way to avoid having to
(1) reinstall the software I have under 8.1 on the 10 side and (2)
having to copy (and maybe synchronize) the data files from 8.1 to 10.

Thanks.

Alek wrote on 7/19/2015 11:53 AM:
I have Win 8.1 on my desktop and would like to create a dual boot 8.1
and 10 when 10 comes out.

There are plenty of sites that tell how to create a separate partition
for 10, etc.

What I'd like to know is whether or not there's a way to avoid having to
(1) reinstall the software I have under 8.1 on the 10 side and (2)
having to copy (and maybe synchronize) the data files from 8.1 to 10.

Thanks.

When 8 came out, I imaged my win7 before updating and then put the image on a 2nd partition and setup a dual boot with
EasyBCD. Not enough knowledge on how to force windows to find another OS. But after a while, I finally got the ISO
and key for win8 and just reloaded the 7 image as it was on #1 partition, and added 8 like you normally do so 8 created
it's own dual boot. No longer had to use EasyBCD.

A little messy but it worked.

Alek wrote:
I have Win 8.1 on my desktop and would like to create a dual boot 8.1
and 10 when 10 comes out.

There are plenty of sites that tell how to create a separate partition
for 10, etc.

What I'd like to know is whether or not there's a way to avoid having to
(1) reinstall the software I have under 8.1 on the 10 side and (2)
having to copy (and maybe synchronize) the data files from 8.1 to 10.

Thanks.

What you describe is "license amplification".

There will be some guiding principles at work. And
some early adopters are going to get some "surprises",
when they test this stuff.

If you want an absolutely un-encumbered Win10 installation,
preorder Core or Pro from Newegg for July 29. The license
key provided, will be independent of your Win 8.1 key,
you can dual boot, no licenses get disabled or Not Genuine
and so on.

Early adapters will help us build the Upgrade Matrix of
Incomprehensibility, but you shouldn't be the one to
provide a data point. Give it time. Let some other
person discover that dual booting as you describe,
has some unfortunate side effects.

I personally don't plan on "burning" any license
to discover the rules. I'll leave that to the
clueless and those in a big rush to be first.

The appearance of boxed software products for Win10 on
Newegg, virtually sealed our fate in terms of license
amplification. Microsoft cannot hope to sell those
boxes on Newegg, unless a very complicated structure
is put in place (on the Activation Server) to prevent
people like you from "having fun".

Microsoft promises the ability to "Clean Install"
the freebie upgrade for Win10, and that means the
Activation Server needs to keep info like MSA,
machine hardware hash, qualifying license key
(your disabled Windows 8.1 license). That's the kind
of info needed to promise customers they can do
clean installs later, if the hard drive dies.

So in some ways, Windows 10 is a more expensive OS
than Windows 8 was. No initial $39.95 electronic
download that I can see. We're not getting any
discounted initial offering, nor a Family Pack.
And I don't see an intention here, to "Ignite"
consumption by allowing various license amplification
schemes.

If there wasn't an advert on Newegg for Win10, it
would indicate we can have a free-for-all. The fact
they're planning on selling copies, tells you the
rules must be pretty strict on those freebie upgrades.
And I for one, don't plan on finding out first hand,
how that Upgrade Matrix works. I'll let someone else
"donate" their license to help use build the knowledge base.

You have a whole year to watch the fun.

Paul

Paul wrote:
Alek wrote:
I have Win 8.1 on my desktop and would like to create a dual boot 8.1
and 10 when 10 comes out.

There are plenty of sites that tell how to create a separate partition
for 10, etc.

What I'd like to know is whether or not there's a way to avoid having to
(1) reinstall the software I have under 8.1 on the 10 side and (2)
having to copy (and maybe synchronize) the data files from 8.1 to 10.

Thanks.

What you describe is "license amplification".

There will be some guiding principles at work. And
some early adopters are going to get some "surprises",
when they test this stuff.

If you want an absolutely un-encumbered Win10 installation,
preorder Core or Pro from Newegg for July 29. The license
key provided, will be independent of your Win 8.1 key,
you can dual boot, no licenses get disabled or Not Genuine
and so on.

Early adapters will help us build the Upgrade Matrix of
Incomprehensibility, but you shouldn't be the one to
provide a data point. Give it time. Let some other
person discover that dual booting as you describe,
has some unfortunate side effects.

I personally don't plan on "burning" any license
to discover the rules. I'll leave that to the
clueless and those in a big rush to be first.

The appearance of boxed software products for Win10 on
Newegg, virtually sealed our fate in terms of license
amplification. Microsoft cannot hope to sell those
boxes on Newegg, unless a very complicated structure
is put in place (on the Activation Server) to prevent
people like you from "having fun".

Microsoft promises the ability to "Clean Install"
the freebie upgrade for Win10, and that means the
Activation Server needs to keep info like MSA,
machine hardware hash, qualifying license key
(your disabled Windows 8.1 license). That's the kind
of info needed to promise customers they can do
clean installs later, if the hard drive dies.

So in some ways, Windows 10 is a more expensive OS
than Windows 8 was. No initial $39.95 electronic
download that I can see. We're not getting any
discounted initial offering, nor a Family Pack.
And I don't see an intention here, to "Ignite"
consumption by allowing various license amplification
schemes.

If there wasn't an advert on Newegg for Win10, it
would indicate we can have a free-for-all. The fact
they're planning on selling copies, tells you the
rules must be pretty strict on those freebie upgrades.
And I for one, don't plan on finding out first hand,
how that Upgrade Matrix works. I'll let someone else
"donate" their license to help use build the knowledge base.

You have a whole year to watch the fun.

Paul

Hi Paul,
As I understand it, it will work differently.
The qualifying device's footprint and license permitting subsequent
reinstall/clean install (after upgrading to 10) will be store in the
MSFT Store. The activation server only needs to obtain, not keep the
data....this allows the Activation server (which also approves full
retail activation) to remain independent.

It will be interesting to watch the quagmire of 'how to, try this, etc.'
recommendations for Win10 upgrades, retail installs, OEM pre-installed
o/s devices.


--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

.. . .winston wrote:

Hi Paul,
As I understand it, it will work differently.
The qualifying device's footprint and license permitting subsequent
reinstall/clean install (after upgrading to 10) will be store in the
MSFT Store. The activation server only needs to obtain, not keep the
data....this allows the Activation server (which also approves full
retail activation) to remain independent.

It will be interesting to watch the quagmire of 'how to, try this, etc.'
recommendations for Win10 upgrades, retail installs, OEM pre-installed
o/s devices.

On the one hand, the way I read it, is Microsoft
doesn't want license amplification.

And on the other hand here, I want to make sure
if I can, that no user "burns a license" for nothing.
Licenses cost real money, and some people cannot
afford to burn licenses. I know I can't.

So if any of these procedures involve invalidating
licenses, we need to know about it *now*, not next week.

I understand, that once an W7SP1/W8.1 to W10 free upgrade
is done, a user has up to 30 days to reverse it. Which
implies that if they don't reverse it, something
ends up invalidated ??? They don't present terms like
that, unless there are "consequences".

It just so happens, that the automated removal of
Windows.old is also a 30 day interval. (On a modern
OS, an upgrade install is irreversable, without the
user doing a backup first, due to Windows.old
getting removed by the automation.)

Is someone conflating the two events ? 30 days to
revert for license reasons, versus 30 days to
revert due to the automated removal of Windows.old ?

I can't recommend a Win10 free upgrade to anyone at
this point, when I can't honestly say I understand
the policy. Whatever it is.

Paul

Paul wrote on 7/19/2015 11:33 PM:
Alek wrote:
I have Win 8.1 on my desktop and would like to create a dual boot 8.1
and 10 when 10 comes out.

There are plenty of sites that tell how to create a separate partition
for 10, etc.

What I'd like to know is whether or not there's a way to avoid having to
(1) reinstall the software I have under 8.1 on the 10 side and (2)
having to copy (and maybe synchronize) the data files from 8.1 to 10.

Thanks.

What you describe is "license amplification".

??? I don't think so.

Paul wrote:
. . .winston wrote:

Hi Paul,
As I understand it, it will work differently.
The qualifying device's footprint and license permitting subsequent
reinstall/clean install (after upgrading to 10) will be store in the
MSFT Store. The activation server only needs to obtain, not keep the
data....this allows the Activation server (which also approves full
retail activation) to remain independent.

It will be interesting to watch the quagmire of 'how to, try this,
etc.' recommendations for Win10 upgrades, retail installs, OEM
pre-installed o/s devices.

On the one hand, the way I read it, is Microsoft
doesn't want license amplification.

And on the other hand here, I want to make sure
if I can, that no user "burns a license" for nothing.
Licenses cost real money, and some people cannot
afford to burn licenses. I know I can't.

So if any of these procedures involve invalidating
licenses, we need to know about it *now*, not next week.

I understand, that once an W7SP1/W8.1 to W10 free upgrade
is done, a user has up to 30 days to reverse it. Which
implies that if they don't reverse it, something
ends up invalidated ??? They don't present terms like
that, unless there are "consequences".

It just so happens, that the automated removal of
Windows.old is also a 30 day interval. (On a modern
OS, an upgrade install is irreversable, without the
user doing a backup first, due to Windows.old
getting removed by the automation.)

Is someone conflating the two events ? 30 days to
revert for license reasons, versus 30 days to
revert due to the automated removal of Windows.old ?

I can't recommend a Win10 free upgrade to anyone at
this point, when I can't honestly say I understand
the policy. Whatever it is.

Paul

I would, at this time, interpret the 30 days as:
(a) consistent with the Return policy, not necessarily the ability to
roll back to a valid license using Windows 8.1 (free) created media or
retail media or OEM recovery disks
*and*
(b) The automatic removal of Windows.old

i.e. not the ability to do so by media, recovery disk, recovery image or
3rd party image.


Also the 30 day reversion terminolgy is not in the 10240 Insider Build
license.rtf file which now lacks any reference to 'preview'.

Is someone conflating the two (or more) events - until proven otherwise
yes, and imo...just hypothesis.

You, I, and others should already have learned that MSFT never dot's
every 'i' or crosses every 't' prior to GA. Every o/s released has grey
area. More information, now...may be a pipe dream.



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

Alek wrote:
Paul wrote on 7/19/2015 11:33 PM:
Alek wrote:
I have Win 8.1 on my desktop and would like to create a dual boot 8.1
and 10 when 10 comes out.

There are plenty of sites that tell how to create a separate partition
for 10, etc.

What I'd like to know is whether or not there's a way to avoid having to
(1) reinstall the software I have under 8.1 on the 10 side and (2)
having to copy (and maybe synchronize) the data files from 8.1 to 10.

Thanks.

What you describe is "license amplification".

??? I don't think so.

Yes, it is...you're initial post indicates a willingness to use a
replaced license (Win8) on the same device as Win10.
- license amplification

i.e. Upgrading to Windows 10 using an 8.1 license replaces the ability
to use the 8.1 license until Windows 10 is removed.


--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

.. . .winston wrote on 7/20/2015 3:12 PM:
Alek wrote:
Paul wrote on 7/19/2015 11:33 PM:
Alek wrote:
I have Win 8.1 on my desktop and would like to create a dual boot 8.1
and 10 when 10 comes out.

There are plenty of sites that tell how to create a separate partition
for 10, etc.

What I'd like to know is whether or not there's a way to avoid having to
(1) reinstall the software I have under 8.1 on the 10 side and (2)
having to copy (and maybe synchronize) the data files from 8.1 to 10.

Thanks.

What you describe is "license amplification".

??? I don't think so.

Yes, it is...you're initial post indicates a willingness to use a
replaced license (Win8) on the same device as Win10.
- license amplification

i.e. Upgrading to Windows 10 using an 8.1 license replaces the ability
to use the 8.1 license until Windows 10 is removed.

Ah, OK. Thanks.

On 07/20/2015 03:12 PM, . . .winston wrote:
Alek wrote:
Paul wrote on 7/19/2015 11:33 PM:
Alek wrote:
I have Win 8.1 on my desktop and would like to create a dual boot 8.1
and 10 when 10 comes out.

There are plenty of sites that tell how to create a separate partition
for 10, etc.

What I'd like to know is whether or not there's a way to avoid
having to
(1) reinstall the software I have under 8.1 on the 10 side and (2)
having to copy (and maybe synchronize) the data files from 8.1 to 10.

Thanks.

What you describe is "license amplification".

??? I don't think so.

Yes, it is...you're initial post indicates a willingness to use a
replaced license (Win8) on the same device as Win10.
- license amplification

i.e. Upgrading to Windows 10 using an 8.1 license replaces the ability
to use the 8.1 license until Windows 10 is removed.


where can I find documentation from Microsoft that states that info.

.. . .winston wrote:
Alek wrote:
Paul wrote on 7/19/2015 11:33 PM:
Alek wrote:
I have Win 8.1 on my desktop and would like to create a dual boot 8.1
and 10 when 10 comes out.

There are plenty of sites that tell how to create a separate partition
for 10, etc.

What I'd like to know is whether or not there's a way to avoid having to
(1) reinstall the software I have under 8.1 on the 10 side and (2)
having to copy (and maybe synchronize) the data files from 8.1 to 10.

Thanks.

What you describe is "license amplification".

??? I don't think so.

Yes, it is...you're initial post indicates a willingness to use a
replaced license (Win8) on the same device as Win10.
- license amplification

i.e. Upgrading to Windows 10 using an 8.1 license replaces the ability
to use the 8.1 license until Windows 10 is removed.

So if I understand you correctly it would be possible for me to
duplicate a Windows 8.1 partition on the same PC, upgrade one of the
partitions to Windows 10 to see if I like it, and remove one of the
partitions within 30 days, leaving me with one partition containing my
preferred version of Windows.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
. . .winston wrote:
Alek wrote:
Paul wrote on 7/19/2015 11:33 PM:
Alek wrote:
I have Win 8.1 on my desktop and would like to create a dual boot 8.1
and 10 when 10 comes out.

There are plenty of sites that tell how to create a separate partition
for 10, etc.

What I'd like to know is whether or not there's a way to avoid having
to
(1) reinstall the software I have under 8.1 on the 10 side and (2)
having to copy (and maybe synchronize) the data files from 8.1 to 10.

Thanks.

What you describe is "license amplification".

??? I don't think so.

Yes, it is...you're initial post indicates a willingness to use a
replaced license (Win8) on the same device as Win10.
- license amplification

i.e. Upgrading to Windows 10 using an 8.1 license replaces the ability
to use the 8.1 license until Windows 10 is removed.

So if I understand you correctly it would be possible for me to duplicate
a Windows 8.1 partition on the same PC, upgrade one of the partitions to
Windows 10 to see if I like it, and remove one of the partitions within 30
days, leaving me with one partition containing my preferred version of
Windows.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England



FWIW: When I installed Win7 Pro over Vista ( with upgrade license) at start
of installl iit prompted me
" keep/overwrite Vista" or "where to install" ( forget exact lingo) and I
thought GREAT - I CAN have both, so installed to a new partition. I thought
Vista would be C and Win7 would be D. When install was all done and rebooted
Win7 was on C and D had my Vista FILES but not a working operation system.
It wouldn't boot. SO, by choosing dual-boot, I wasted 11gb on old
partition - which I later wiped. And I PAID $100 for Win7. With Win10 for
FREE, I don't think dual-boot an option. I think their legal POV is that
they are REPLACING your existing OS with a new one - at no charge - take it
or leave it.

Before you do anything, back up , make sure you have bootable media to get
back to 8.1



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

In the last episode of , "- Bobb -"
said:

FWIW: When I installed Win7 Pro over Vista ( with upgrade license) at start
of installl iit prompted me
" keep/overwrite Vista" or "where to install" ( forget exact lingo) and I
thought GREAT - I CAN have both, so installed to a new partition. I thought
Vista would be C and Win7 would be D. When install was all done and rebooted
Win7 was on C and D had my Vista FILES but not a working operation system.
It wouldn't boot. SO, by choosing dual-boot, I wasted 11gb on old
partition - which I later wiped. And I PAID $100 for Win7. With Win10 for
FREE, I don't think dual-boot an option. I think their legal POV is that
they are REPLACING your existing OS with a new one - at no charge - take it
or leave it.

Upgrades have always replaced your existing OS, both on disk and in
licence. However, you can purchase a full license and use it as the
basis for the upgrade, then install Vista elsewhere. Windows will do an
upgrade-in-place, meaning the old Vista installation is not left
bootable, but you can clone it yourself if you desire.

--
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