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  #91  
Old June 1st 19, 01:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
123456789[_3_]
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Posts: 239
Default Windows Experience

VanguardLH wrote:

I might get one [Chromebook] for when I travel, like
vacations. After all, when I lug my laptop or netbook
along, everything I want to do while on vacation requires
the Internet (bookings, locations, hours, driving, etc).


I seldom need my W10 laptop anymore since I got this
Chromebook. And weighing in at 2 pounds, it does make for a
great traveling companion.

If you've ever used Chrome, you'd feel right at home on a
Chromebook. It's based around that web browser.


Chromebooks can do much more than web browser stuff these
days. Mine also runs Android apps with thousands to choose
from. Newer models also run Linux stuff. And I even run some
Window's apps using an emulator. For example I'm posting this
on my Chromebook using a Windows app run on an Android
emulator (CrossOver)...
Ads
  #92  
Old June 1st 19, 02:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Springer[_2_]
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Posts: 3,817
Default Windows Experience

On 6/1/19 12:39 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Ken Springer wrote:

How many people even know what an email client is?

I know folks that only use the web browser to get to their e-mail
service. They have to remember to occasionally go look for new e-mails
rather than get an immediate alert telling them there is new e-mail.


IIRC, notifications are turned on by default. Do those folks not read
them, or maybe don't know what they mean?


Only if the web browser is left running all the time. Do you power up
your computer and leave the web browser running until you power down?


As a matter of fact, I do! LOL But no email tabs.

As for emails clients, most Mac users I know use Apple Mail, which is a
client. And for Gmail, too! I want to find the time to check out the
Mail app for W10, find out how it works.


And now you just conflicted with your prior statement that users don't
know about e-mail clients.


No, no. We were talking about the lack of activity in the Apple
newsgroups. And you said "Those users probably don't know how to use an
NNTP client, either, don't know what is Usenet, so you'll have to
find some flat-hierarchy web-based forums to get help with a Mac. They
probably also don't even know what is an e-mail client." I was
responding to your email client statement.

My comment about users not knowing what an email client is was referring
to Windows users. But, if you want to include *all* computer users, the
statement would still be valid due to the number of Windows users vs.
everybody else.

Which makes me ponder, I wonder how many W10 users are using the Windows
Mail App, and don't know they are using a client.

Most e-mail clients these days have a database of hundreds of e-mail
providers to know how to configure to use them. Most times, you just
enter your e-mail address and the domain for it gets used to
auto-configure the e-mail client.


Why would they need a database? Wouldn't it be possible to just start
with the user's email address, poll the appropriate server for settings,
and go from there?

I hide my taskbar. But some programs don't seem to play well with that.
That comment comes from using W7. No plans for major use of W10. You
could enable the Quick Launch bar in W7, but I've not looked to see if
that can be done in W8 & W10.


Auto-hide of the taskbar only has a problem with a program that doesn't
check what is the currently available screen size. Some will auto-size
when the taskbar is unhidden, some don't change size; however, since the
taskbar auto-hides, you aren't using it for the program on the screen,
so when you move back into the app then the taskbar gets out of the way.
Other than that, I don't know what other problems an auto-hiding taskbar
causes.


Occasionally, in W7, I'll ave a window that is in the taskbar area.
Pull the taskbar down for something, and when I go back to the window,
the taskbar stays pulled down. This used to be a PITA for me in XP. I
don't use W10 enough to know if it happens there or not.

I don't bother with that feature. After about 6-8 years, I end
up getting a larger and higher resolution monitor, anyway.


I'm shopping for a bigger monitor for the new Mac, but for a different
reason. Eyesight. I'm hoping I can run at a slightly lower resolution,
thus accomplishing the magnification result, yet still have the same
amount of info on the screen as I have in the monitor that went away.

Depends on the size of the library, as well as the distance to the
library.


Hence my mention of e-books. The selection, however, is not as great.


I think the selection depends on the category of books. A friend does
this with the local library, but she's always frustrated due to the huge
waiting list for a book, plus the poor selection.

For me, the books I've wanted never seem available as an e-book. I
can't almost guarantee the issue is the age of the book. Virtually no
demand to convert them.

Besides, I like to make notes and highlight things in books,
and libraries frown on that. LOL


Well, they're not your books.


I know. :-) In my case, many of the old books are downloadable as a
PDF, which is what I read. But no one seems to go through the PDF to
check for very obvious errors. :-(

Since you already got a WinX computer,
just buy the book(s). The "Windows 10 All-in-one for Dummies" by Woody
Leonhard is just $25.


And, how old is it now? I see there's 4 versions, so if I want to save
a buck and buy a used edition, I may get version 1. How many things has
MS changed since Woody wrote the current version? I'd rather spend the
$25 on a prime rib dinner. LOL

snip

For Woody's book, my library has e-book versions of it. I don't know if
the free Calibre e-reader works with it (because, I'm sure, there's some
DRM **** attached to an e-book loaned out by a library), so they had me
install Adobe Digital Editions (also free).


The last time I played with Calibre, it would read just about any e-book
format, plus convert between formats. It would also load your book and
turn it into an e-book.


--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.5
Firefox 67.0
Thunderbird 60.7
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #93  
Old June 1st 19, 03:10 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Windows Experience

"Ken Springer" wrote

| Which makes me ponder, I wonder how many W10 users are using the Windows
| Mail App, and don't know they are using a client.
|

First you'd have to answer how many Win10 users
check email on their computer. I'm increasingly finding
that friends and customers are writing to me from
their cellphones. Many younger people are annoyed
by any communication other than text. Recently a
customer thought I hadn't got her email. I responded
that I'd already answered the question she'd posed.
She wrote back, "Woops. I didn't scroll down."

It's got so bad that I'm thinking of creating a list
so I know how to respond to people. I'll have two
categories. One will be people who are literate, use
a computer, and don't try to eat, have sex, or finish
their taxes while writing email. To those people I'll
send thoughtful responses. The other category will
be people who only use their phone and are generally
trying to do 3 things while they check email. To them
I'll just write "LOL". It's all they'll have time to read
before walking into a telephone pole, anyway.

| Most e-mail clients these days have a database of hundreds of e-mail
| providers to know how to configure to use them. Most times, you just
| enter your e-mail address and the domain for it gets used to
| auto-configure the e-mail client.
|
| Why would they need a database? Wouldn't it be possible to just start
| with the user's email address, poll the appropriate server for settings,
| and go from there?
|

He's talking about things like Thunderbird that try
to provide a for-dummies configuration function.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work very well unless
your email provider is gmail or Verizon. I have RCN for
Internet and my own domain for email. I don't think
TBird even lists RCN. Worse, TBird doesn't want to
let you open the program to set up your own settings.

But their intentions are good. The problem is that
email protocol was never designed for "discoverability".
I looked into that once for my own email-sending
software. You can look up the provider. For instance,
you can check to see whether podunk.com sends email
from its own server, from a host, or from gmail. But
there's no way to look up the strings and ports
config necessary for a given host. You just have to
go to their website. That's why spyware webmail has
become so popular. Very few people are capable of
setting up their own email program. And there's no
standard.

Say you're . That's not in TBird's list.
To send mail you might use mail.podunk.com. Or it
might be smtp.podunk.com. You may need to use
port 465, or 995, or something else. Podunk may handle
straight TLS encryption, but they also may only accept
an unencrypted STARTTLS handshake. They may or may
not allow unencrypted email. How do you know? You
have to hope it's explained on their website. Then you
have to know what TBird means in the dropdown options
of None, STARTTLS, SSL/TLS. Few people have any idea
what those things mean. To make matters worse, TBird
settings are poorly designed, separating outgoing server
settings from incoming server settings.

| For me, the books I've wanted never seem available as an e-book. I
| can't almost guarantee the issue is the age of the book. Virtually no
| demand to convert them.
|

Or too much demand to read them. Libraries have
to institute a fake scarcity because they can only loan
a "copy" they've paid for. And most people who do a
lot of reading are always looking to get the latest
bestseller.


  #94  
Old June 1st 19, 04:13 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,221
Default Windows Experience

On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 01:19:40 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:

I know nothing about Chromebooks. I've never even seen one.


A lot of schools use them. Guess they're pretty simple for students. I
might get one for when I travel, like vacations. After all, when I lug
my laptop or netbook along, everything I want to do while on vacation
requires the Internet (bookings, locations, hours, driving, etc).



Ditto, but when I travel these days, I use my smart phone for
everything I want to do: e-mail, weather reports, bookings, maps, and
reading kindle books. It's fine for those things and small, light, and
easy to carry.


If I
don't have the Internet, those become useless to me.




If you've ever
used Chrome, you'd feel right at home on a Chromebook. It's based
around that web browser. You can use some local/offline apps, but it's
really built for being on the web.



I've tried Chrome. I hate it. As far as I'm concerned, there's only
one browser that's worse than Chrome--Edge.
  #95  
Old June 1st 19, 05:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Windows Experience

In article , Ken Springer
wrote:


Which makes me ponder, I wonder how many W10 users are using the Windows
Mail App, and don't know they are using a client.


close to zero.

Most e-mail clients these days have a database of hundreds of e-mail
providers to know how to configure to use them. Most times, you just
enter your e-mail address and the domain for it gets used to
auto-configure the e-mail client.


Why would they need a database? Wouldn't it be possible to just start
with the user's email address, poll the appropriate server for settings,
and go from there?


they need a database because there is no standard configuration, plus
such a database is always going to be outdated as new providers appear
and old ones go away.

other than the major providers, such as gmail, yahoo, etc., the
configuration is going to vary, sometimes a lot.




For me, the books I've wanted never seem available as an e-book. I
can't almost guarantee the issue is the age of the book. Virtually no
demand to convert them.


very old books won't unless they're classics, but anything recent will.

Besides, I like to make notes and highlight things in books,
and libraries frown on that. LOL


Well, they're not your books.


I know. :-) In my case, many of the old books are downloadable as a
PDF, which is what I read. But no one seems to go through the PDF to
check for very obvious errors. :-(


yep, they scan it, which makes for a not very good pdf.
  #96  
Old June 1st 19, 05:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Windows Experience

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

Libraries have
to institute a fake scarcity because they can only loan
a "copy" they've paid for. And most people who do a
lot of reading are always looking to get the latest
bestseller.


it's not a fake scarcity.
  #97  
Old June 1st 19, 06:15 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default Windows Experience

Ken Springer wrote:

And, how old is it now? I see there's 4 versions, so if I want to save
a buck and buy a used edition, I may get version 1. How many things has
MS changed since Woody wrote the current version? I'd rather spend the
$25 on a prime rib dinner. LOL


I pointed at the 3rd edition published July 2018. Looks like the latest
edition. The cover should show the edition (except the 1st edition
since it wouldn't be yet known if there will be more, like the Great War
became WW1 only after there was a WW2). I couldn't find a 4th edition.

For Woody's book, my library has e-book versions of it. I don't know
if the free Calibre e-reader works with it (because, I'm sure,
there's some DRM **** attached to an e-book loaned out by a
library), so they had me install Adobe Digital Editions (also free).


The last time I played with Calibre, it would read just about any
e-book format, plus convert between formats. It would also load your
book and turn it into an e-book.


I don't remember if Calibre handles DRM. I only recall that I
downloaded the ePUB book from my library but Calibre wouldn't open it.

https://manual.calibre-ebook.com/faq...ith-acsm-files
"Most purchased EPUB books have DRM. This prevents calibre from opening
them."

After just checking, there is the DeDRM plug-in which started 4 years
ago. If this plug-in didn't come already included then I wouldn't have
gone hunting for it. https://plugins.calibre-ebook.com/ doesn't list
DeDRM, so it probably doesn't come bundled with Calibre.
  #98  
Old June 1st 19, 06:22 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default Windows Experience

Mayayana wrote:

"Ken Springer" wrote

| Which makes me ponder, I wonder how many W10 users are using the Windows
| Mail App, and don't know they are using a client.

First you'd have to answer how many Win10 users check email on their
computer. I'm increasingly finding that friends and customers are
writing to me from their cellphones.


Compared to the number of Android and Apple mobile device users, Win10
mobile users are a severe minority. From StatCounter's mobile OS
marketshare statistics: Android 75.27%, Apple iOS 22.74%, KaiOS 0.75%,
Unknown 0.32%, Windows 0.24%, Samsung 0.22%.

The OP asked "how many W10 users". W10 mobile OS users are a tiny
community. Even so, those mobile users are likely using an app aka
client, not opening a web browser to do e-mail. Alas, the quality of
content of mobile-sourced e-mail has severely fallen. They're used to
short, cryptic, non-punctuated, overly acronym-rich, and emojied
texting, and it carries over into their e-mails.

The smaller size of apps necessitates less code, plus new apps are new
code with new bugs. That codebase doesn't have the history of the
legacy programs, nor are the legacy programs directly convertable to
mobile apps. I forget which e-mail app it was, but it never added the
References header in replies. The result was someone who used that app
to reply started a whole new thread and ended up with multiple disjoint
discussions. Sorting on Subject is way too flaky, especially since
mobile users tend to make everything short and too often similar. If
they used the webclient for e-mail, the service provider did add the
References header, but not when the user used that app (client's add the
References header, not the servers). The respondents hadn't a clue what
I meant by the References header. They never looked at the headers.
They didn't know what are headers. It was a couple years before the app
coder learned more about e-mail to then include the References header.

New apps for old functionality go through their growing pains, but are
still limp compared to legacy counterparts. I use the Outlook program
on my desktop PC, laptop, and netbook and the Outlook app on my Android
smartphone. One is robust, one is limp (but still better than the
default E-Mail app or Gmail app bundled on the smartphone). Often I
wait until I get home or to work to do e-mail unless there's some
immediacy to the discussion. I dislike texting due to the above
mentioned low quality of content therein, like caveman-speak with
Egyptian hieroglyphics.
  #99  
Old June 1st 19, 06:40 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Windows Experience

Ken Blake wrote:


I've tried Chrome. I hate it. As far as I'm concerned, there's only
one browser that's worse than Chrome--Edge.


You know, you shouldn't write those so close together in a
sentence. They might mate and produce gasp
OH, NO, it's happened! Chroge!!!

https://www.ghacks.net/2019/03/25/th...-edge-browser/

Paul

  #100  
Old June 1st 19, 06:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Windows Experience

In article , VanguardLH
wrote:

| Which makes me ponder, I wonder how many W10 users are using the Windows
| Mail App, and don't know they are using a client.

First you'd have to answer how many Win10 users check email on their
computer. I'm increasingly finding that friends and customers are
writing to me from their cellphones.


Compared to the number of Android and Apple mobile device users, Win10
mobile users are a severe minority. From StatCounter's mobile OS
marketshare statistics: Android 75.27%, Apple iOS 22.74%, KaiOS 0.75%,
Unknown 0.32%, Windows 0.24%, Samsung 0.22%.


he wasn't asking about win10 mobile users.

the reason win10 mobile is so low is because windows phone is dead.

The OP asked "how many W10 users". W10 mobile OS users are a tiny
community.


win10 users are not the same as win10 mobile users.

Even so, those mobile users are likely using an app aka
client, not opening a web browser to do e-mail.


mostly, but not all.

Alas, the quality of
content of mobile-sourced e-mail has severely fallen. They're used to
short, cryptic, non-punctuated, overly acronym-rich, and emojied
texting, and it carries over into their e-mails.


nonsense.

The smaller size of apps necessitates less code, plus new apps are new
code with new bugs. That codebase doesn't have the history of the
legacy programs, nor are the legacy programs directly convertable to
mobile apps.


also wrong.
  #101  
Old June 1st 19, 07:53 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Windows Experience

Paul wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:

I've tried Chrome. I hate it. As far as I'm concerned, there's only
one browser that's worse than Chrome--Edge.


You know, you shouldn't write those so close together in a
sentence. They might mate and produce gasp
OH, NO, it's happened! Chroge!!!

https://www.ghacks.net/2019/03/25/th...-edge-browser/


Yeah, Microsoft introduced Edge as their new web browser to replace
Internet Explorer. Edge used the EdgeHTML engine. Microsoft decided to
quit trying to play catchup with HTML5 compatibility, surrendered, and
went to the Blink engine that Chrome uses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...al_information
"EdgeHTML: Discontinued"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Edge

"Originally built with Microsoft's own EdgeHTML and Chakra engines,
Edge is currently being rebuilt as a Chromium-based browser, using the
Blink and V8 engines, based upon WebKit."

Well, like Mozilla switching to WebExtensions in v57 Quantum, maybe Edge
will be able to use the numerous extensions that Chrome has. Depends on
the extension authors, though. However, changing the rendering engine
doesn't mean the rest changes, too.

"As of April 2019, according to StatCounter, Edge still has lower
market share than Internet Explorer and even with the market share of
the both combined would only manage 3rd place after Firefox."

Current StatCounter stats:
Chrome 62.7%
Safari 15.89%
Firefox 5.07%
Samsung Internet 3.38%
UC Browser 3.16%
Opera 2.55%

Edge and IE don't even rate getting on the chart, and Firefox severely
lags Chrome. Is Mozilla the last holdout from using the Blink engine
versus their Gecko engine? Well, assuming you don't go with ancient
versions of a web browser, like sticking with Opera with its Presto
engine. I'm wondering what's going to happen, not what has happened.
I haven't bothered to investigate when Mozilla moves to their Servo
engine, but Rust looks like an interesting programming language.
 




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