F key doesn't work in windows, but I can use it in my Windowspassword?!

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 20:38:37 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 18:58:20 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 04:01:38 +0100, Lucifer Morningstar
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2018 18:47:45 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:


If the keyboard works sometimes and not others, it's clearly a
software
problem.

nope. it's almost certainly flaky hardware.

nope. it's almost certainly laky software.

eITHER way it's ucked up.
The computer was bought from a shop run by Pakis. Need I say more?

Did your keyboard look like this ?

https://previews.123rf.com/images/le...d-in-green.jpg
The letter F and J have a raised dimple so
you can feel the "home row" without looking down.
The keyboard didn't come with the computer, it was one I already had.
And what was your point?

Still waiting to find out what's going on
with your mapper software. Has mapper software
ever been run on the machine ?

No.

When you "remove program",
does the mapper software remove the old keyboard map ?

And if you install the mapper software now, what
does it show for the current disposition of the
F key ?

No point in trying that as they all function differently and wouldn't see
each other.

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 20:38:37 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 18:58:20 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 04:01:38 +0100, Lucifer Morningstar
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2018 18:47:45 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:


If the keyboard works sometimes and not others, it's clearly a
software
problem.

nope. it's almost certainly flaky hardware.

nope. it's almost certainly laky software.

eITHER way it's ucked up.
The computer was bought from a shop run by Pakis. Need I say more?

Did your keyboard look like this ?

https://previews.123rf.com/images/le...d-in-green.jpg
The letter F and J have a raised dimple so
you can feel the "home row" without looking down.
The keyboard didn't come with the computer, it was one I already had.
And what was your point?

Still waiting to find out what's going on
with your mapper software. Has mapper software
ever been run on the machine ?

No.

When you "remove program",
does the mapper software remove the old keyboard map ?

And if you install the mapper software now, what
does it show for the current disposition of the
F key ?

No point in trying that as they all function differently and wouldn't
see each other.

There's a place in the registry that Windows knows about,
and several different programs will try their hand a
registry editing the same set of entries. In fact,
I would expect surprises if two such programs
were running at the same time, and both were writing
to the registry at the same instant.

http://www.wordstar.org/index.php/29...ry-edit-keymap

But that's not likely to happen. For a given program, the
user is likely to have a button labeled "Update" that
causes the program to change the Registry values. A
program has no need to keep registry keys opened
all the time and be "pounding" on them. A simple
write of the registry keys, then back off, and the
job is done.

Paul

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 21:56:03 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 20:38:37 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 18:58:20 +0100, Paul
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 04:01:38 +0100, Lucifer Morningstar
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2018 18:47:45 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Jimmy
Wilkinson
Knife wrote:


If the keyboard works sometimes and not others, it's clearly a
software
problem.

nope. it's almost certainly flaky hardware.

nope. it's almost certainly laky software.

eITHER way it's ucked up.
The computer was bought from a shop run by Pakis. Need I say more?

Did your keyboard look like this ?

https://previews.123rf.com/images/le...d-in-green.jpg
The letter F and J have a raised dimple so
you can feel the "home row" without looking down.
The keyboard didn't come with the computer, it was one I already had.
And what was your point?

Still waiting to find out what's going on
with your mapper software. Has mapper software
ever been run on the machine ?
No.

When you "remove program",
does the mapper software remove the old keyboard map ?

And if you install the mapper software now, what
does it show for the current disposition of the
F key ?
No point in trying that as they all function differently and wouldn't
see each other.

There's a place in the registry that Windows knows about,
and several different programs will try their hand a
registry editing the same set of entries. In fact,
I would expect surprises if two such programs
were running at the same time, and both were writing
to the registry at the same instant.

http://www.wordstar.org/index.php/29...ry-edit-keymap

But that's not likely to happen. For a given program, the
user is likely to have a button labeled "Update" that
causes the program to change the Registry values. A
program has no need to keep registry keys opened
all the time and be "pounding" on them. A simple
write of the registry keys, then back off, and the
job is done.

What I don't understand is how it happens intermittently.

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 21:56:03 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 20:38:37 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 18:58:20 +0100, Paul
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 04:01:38 +0100, Lucifer Morningstar
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2018 18:47:45 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Jimmy
Wilkinson
Knife wrote:


If the keyboard works sometimes and not others, it's clearly a
software
problem.

nope. it's almost certainly flaky hardware.

nope. it's almost certainly laky software.

eITHER way it's ucked up.
The computer was bought from a shop run by Pakis. Need I say more?

Did your keyboard look like this ?

https://previews.123rf.com/images/le...d-in-green.jpg
The letter F and J have a raised dimple so
you can feel the "home row" without looking down.
The keyboard didn't come with the computer, it was one I already had.
And what was your point?

Still waiting to find out what's going on
with your mapper software. Has mapper software
ever been run on the machine ?
No.

When you "remove program",
does the mapper software remove the old keyboard map ?

And if you install the mapper software now, what
does it show for the current disposition of the
F key ?
No point in trying that as they all function differently and
wouldn't see each other.

There's a place in the registry that Windows knows about,
and several different programs will try their hand a
registry editing the same set of entries. In fact,
I would expect surprises if two such programs
were running at the same time, and both were writing
to the registry at the same instant.

http://www.wordstar.org/index.php/29...ry-edit-keymap


But that's not likely to happen. For a given program, the
user is likely to have a button labeled "Update" that
causes the program to change the Registry values. A
program has no need to keep registry keys opened
all the time and be "pounding" on them. A simple
write of the registry keys, then back off, and the
job is done.

What I don't understand is how it happens intermittently.

If you want to go directly for gold, you can fire
up Process Monitor from Sysinternals.com, define a backing
file (instead of using RAM for recording the trace),
and collect a giant trace file. Convert to CSV
format perhaps, or apply a filter to limit the trace
to registry writes, then skim through the file looking
for the particular registry entry, then see what process
did the write to that registry entry.

But a smaller first step, would be showing you have
control of the situation, using a keyboard mapper. If
for example, the keyboard mapper does an update, then
seconds later, the F isn't working, now you know when
you use Process Monitor, it's only going to take
a trace a minute or two long, to find the culprit.

You can't run Process Monitor forever, as the machine
will run out of resources (the machine could freeze on you).
If you can reduce the time needed to reproduce the problem,
that improves the odds of figuring it all out.

Paul

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 01:03:28 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 21:56:03 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 20:38:37 +0100, Paul
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 18:58:20 +0100, Paul
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 04:01:38 +0100, Lucifer Morningstar
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2018 18:47:45 -0400, nospam

wrote:

In article , Jimmy
Wilkinson
Knife wrote:


If the keyboard works sometimes and not others, it's clearly a
software
problem.

nope. it's almost certainly flaky hardware.

nope. it's almost certainly laky software.

eITHER way it's ucked up.
The computer was bought from a shop run by Pakis. Need I say
more?

Did your keyboard look like this ?

https://previews.123rf.com/images/le...d-in-green.jpg
The letter F and J have a raised dimple so
you can feel the "home row" without looking down.
The keyboard didn't come with the computer, it was one I already
had.
And what was your point?

Still waiting to find out what's going on
with your mapper software. Has mapper software
ever been run on the machine ?
No.

When you "remove program",
does the mapper software remove the old keyboard map ?

And if you install the mapper software now, what
does it show for the current disposition of the
F key ?
No point in trying that as they all function differently and
wouldn't see each other.

There's a place in the registry that Windows knows about,
and several different programs will try their hand a
registry editing the same set of entries. In fact,
I would expect surprises if two such programs
were running at the same time, and both were writing
to the registry at the same instant.

http://www.wordstar.org/index.php/29...ry-edit-keymap
But that's not likely to happen. For a given program, the
user is likely to have a button labeled "Update" that
causes the program to change the Registry values. A
program has no need to keep registry keys opened
all the time and be "pounding" on them. A simple
write of the registry keys, then back off, and the
job is done.
What I don't understand is how it happens intermittently.

If you want to go directly for gold, you can fire
up Process Monitor from Sysinternals.com, define a backing
file (instead of using RAM for recording the trace),
and collect a giant trace file. Convert to CSV
format perhaps, or apply a filter to limit the trace
to registry writes, then skim through the file looking
for the particular registry entry, then see what process
did the write to that registry entry.

But a smaller first step, would be showing you have
control of the situation, using a keyboard mapper. If
for example, the keyboard mapper does an update, then
seconds later, the F isn't working, now you know when
you use Process Monitor, it's only going to take
a trace a minute or two long, to find the culprit.

Since I don't have a keyboard mapper, how is installing another (assuming
there's one there without my knowledge) going to point out when the rogue
one operates?

Wouldn't it be better to try to detect if any keyboard mappers are
installed? AVG and Malwarebytes find nothing (apart from a Windows 10
license evader which I assume the shop installed - there's a sticker on
the side which makes it look genuine but who knows).

You can't run Process Monitor forever, as the machine
will run out of resources (the machine could freeze on you).
If you can reduce the time needed to reproduce the problem,
that improves the odds of figuring it all out.

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 01:03:28 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 21:56:03 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 20:38:37 +0100, Paul
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 18:58:20 +0100, Paul
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 04:01:38 +0100, Lucifer Morningstar
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2018 18:47:45 -0400, nospam

wrote:

In article , Jimmy
Wilkinson
Knife wrote:


If the keyboard works sometimes and not others, it's clearly
a software
problem.

nope. it's almost certainly flaky hardware.

nope. it's almost certainly laky software.

eITHER way it's ucked up.
The computer was bought from a shop run by Pakis. Need I say
more?

Did your keyboard look like this ?

https://previews.123rf.com/images/le...d-in-green.jpg
The letter F and J have a raised dimple so
you can feel the "home row" without looking down.
The keyboard didn't come with the computer, it was one I already
had.
And what was your point?

Still waiting to find out what's going on
with your mapper software. Has mapper software
ever been run on the machine ?
No.

When you "remove program",
does the mapper software remove the old keyboard map ?

And if you install the mapper software now, what
does it show for the current disposition of the
F key ?
No point in trying that as they all function differently and
wouldn't see each other.

There's a place in the registry that Windows knows about,
and several different programs will try their hand a
registry editing the same set of entries. In fact,
I would expect surprises if two such programs
were running at the same time, and both were writing
to the registry at the same instant.

http://www.wordstar.org/index.php/29...ry-edit-keymap
But that's not likely to happen. For a given program, the
user is likely to have a button labeled "Update" that
causes the program to change the Registry values. A
program has no need to keep registry keys opened
all the time and be "pounding" on them. A simple
write of the registry keys, then back off, and the
job is done.
What I don't understand is how it happens intermittently.

If you want to go directly for gold, you can fire
up Process Monitor from Sysinternals.com, define a backing
file (instead of using RAM for recording the trace),
and collect a giant trace file. Convert to CSV
format perhaps, or apply a filter to limit the trace
to registry writes, then skim through the file looking
for the particular registry entry, then see what process
did the write to that registry entry.

But a smaller first step, would be showing you have
control of the situation, using a keyboard mapper. If
for example, the keyboard mapper does an update, then
seconds later, the F isn't working, now you know when
you use Process Monitor, it's only going to take
a trace a minute or two long, to find the culprit.

Since I don't have a keyboard mapper, how is installing another
(assuming there's one there without my knowledge) going to point out
when the rogue one operates?

Wouldn't it be better to try to detect if any keyboard mappers are
installed? AVG and Malwarebytes find nothing (apart from a Windows 10
license evader which I assume the shop installed - there's a sticker on
the side which makes it look genuine but who knows).

A keyboard mapper is a legitimate piece of software.

It's not a keylogger, which is a different animal. A keylogger
would be detected either by signature, or by heuristics.
Malwarebytes for example, would see a keylogger hooking
the keyboard driver (heuristic). For softwares that are
whitelisted, Malwarebytes doesn't have to do a thing.

The registry has a table for the purposes of translation.
A key mapper should read the table, and display the information
in a human-friendly way.

If you want to read the key table manually from the
registry, well, go right ahead.

A key mapper then, is partly a "friendly" registry editor,
for a very limited portion of the registry.

There are other kinds of more "active" softwares, AutoIT
for example, and I don't know anything about those,
how they're triggered or raise, how they wait for stuff.
There might be other ways to interfere with computer
operation than editing that part of the registry.

Paul

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

Since I don't have a keyboard mapper, how is installing another (assuming
there's one there without my knowledge) going to point out when the rogue
one operates?

that's not what you said two weeks ago:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:
I know how to do that, I have a remapper installed already, but I'd prefer
to fix the problem rather than work around it.

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 17:00:57 +0100, nospam wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

Since I don't have a keyboard mapper, how is installing another
(assuming
there's one there without my knowledge) going to point out when the
rogue
one operates?

that's not what you said two weeks ago:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:
I know how to do that, I have a remapper installed already, but I'd
prefer
to fix the problem rather than work around it.

That's another machine. I was simply pointing out that I knew what a
remapper was and how it worked.

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 15:55:25 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 01:03:28 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 21:56:03 +0100, Paul
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 20:38:37 +0100, Paul
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 18:58:20 +0100, Paul
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 04:01:38 +0100, Lucifer Morningstar
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2018 18:47:45 -0400, nospam

wrote:

In article , Jimmy
Wilkinson
Knife wrote:


If the keyboard works sometimes and not others, it's clearly
a software
problem.

nope. it's almost certainly flaky hardware.

nope. it's almost certainly laky software.

eITHER way it's ucked up.
The computer was bought from a shop run by Pakis. Need I say
more?

Did your keyboard look like this ?

https://previews.123rf.com/images/le...d-in-green.jpg
The letter F and J have a raised dimple so
you can feel the "home row" without looking down.
The keyboard didn't come with the computer, it was one I already
had.
And what was your point?

Still waiting to find out what's going on
with your mapper software. Has mapper software
ever been run on the machine ?
No.

When you "remove program",
does the mapper software remove the old keyboard map ?

And if you install the mapper software now, what
does it show for the current disposition of the
F key ?
No point in trying that as they all function differently and
wouldn't see each other.

There's a place in the registry that Windows knows about,
and several different programs will try their hand a
registry editing the same set of entries. In fact,
I would expect surprises if two such programs
were running at the same time, and both were writing
to the registry at the same instant.

http://www.wordstar.org/index.php/29...ry-edit-keymap
But that's not likely to happen. For a given program, the
user is likely to have a button labeled "Update" that
causes the program to change the Registry values. A
program has no need to keep registry keys opened
all the time and be "pounding" on them. A simple
write of the registry keys, then back off, and the
job is done.
What I don't understand is how it happens intermittently.

If you want to go directly for gold, you can fire
up Process Monitor from Sysinternals.com, define a backing
file (instead of using RAM for recording the trace),
and collect a giant trace file. Convert to CSV
format perhaps, or apply a filter to limit the trace
to registry writes, then skim through the file looking
for the particular registry entry, then see what process
did the write to that registry entry.

But a smaller first step, would be showing you have
control of the situation, using a keyboard mapper. If
for example, the keyboard mapper does an update, then
seconds later, the F isn't working, now you know when
you use Process Monitor, it's only going to take
a trace a minute or two long, to find the culprit.
Since I don't have a keyboard mapper, how is installing another
(assuming there's one there without my knowledge) going to point out
when the rogue one operates?
Wouldn't it be better to try to detect if any keyboard mappers are
installed? AVG and Malwarebytes find nothing (apart from a Windows 10
license evader which I assume the shop installed - there's a sticker on
the side which makes it look genuine but who knows).

A keyboard mapper is a legitimate piece of software.

It's not a keylogger, which is a different animal.

I know.

A keylogger
would be detected either by signature, or by heuristics.
Malwarebytes for example, would see a keylogger hooking
the keyboard driver (heuristic). For softwares that are
whitelisted, Malwarebytes doesn't have to do a thing.

The registry has a table for the purposes of translation.
A key mapper should read the table, and display the information
in a human-friendly way.

If you want to read the key table manually from the
registry, well, go right ahead.

Do you know where I should look?

A key mapper then, is partly a "friendly" registry editor,
for a very limited portion of the registry.

The key mapper I've used on another machine was "Autohotkey" or something
like that. It didn't read the registry and tell me what anything else had
done as far as I know.

There are other kinds of more "active" softwares, AutoIT
for example, and I don't know anything about those,
how they're triggered or raise, how they wait for stuff.
There might be other ways to interfere with computer
operation than editing that part of the registry.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 22:19:23 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
wrote:

On 16/08/2018 20:01, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


And the problem has now gone away permanently for no reason.

Perhaps there wasn't any problem in the first place; It was just your
stupidity to troll these newsgroups. Mind you we have a thief in
Windows 7 newsgroup by the name of WhetherMan who is going around
pirating Microsoft software but he is so stupid that he, himself can't
use any of them. What good is any software for that idiot!!!!!!!! He
is still using XP and he is complaining about Office 2016 because he
can't install it!!!!!!!!!! Now what do you say to that idiot?

I have XP on a desktop so I can use the built in 20GB 4mm DAT
backup drive.

On Mon, 27 Aug 2018 05:57:00 +0100, Lucifer wrote:

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 22:19:23 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
wrote:

On 16/08/2018 20:01, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


And the problem has now gone away permanently for no reason.

Perhaps there wasn't any problem in the first place; It was just your
stupidity to troll these newsgroups. Mind you we have a thief in
Windows 7 newsgroup by the name of WhetherMan who is going around
pirating Microsoft software but he is so stupid that he, himself can't
use any of them. What good is any software for that idiot!!!!!!!! He
is still using XP and he is complaining about Office 2016 because he
can't install it!!!!!!!!!! Now what do you say to that idiot?

I have XP on a desktop so I can use the built in 20GB 4mm DAT
backup drive.

My god that's huge, almost as big as a pen drive.