Better way to edit PDF forms with any desired font using freeware?

On Wed, 01 May 2019 22:00:39 +1200, Eric Stevens wrote:

You might be interested in http://www.pdfshaper.com/ . It doesn't
actually write PDF files but it does just about all of everything
else. If you have a wordprocessor which will write PDF files PDF
Shaper might meet your needs. There is a fully functional free version
for personal use.

Hi Eric Stevens,

Since every post to Usenet should add value to the Potluck Picnic for all
participating adults to benefit from, I thank you for your purposefully
helpful suggestion of "pdfshaper" freeware to test out for the team.

Below is my log file based on my quick tests.
o I like this freeware pdfshaper tool, but not for the purpose I needed it.

It's a very nice quick-and-easy freeware tool for two things though, IMHO:
o Delete pages in a PDF file
o Rotate pages in a PDF file

Here's my log file...
================================================== ==========================
PDF Shaper Free, version 8.9, log file
This software is free for non-commercial use.

What this PDF Shaper Free will do for you is...
o Delete pages
o Rotate pages
================================================== ==========================
To install...
http://www.pdfshaper.com
http://www.pdfshaper.com/download.html
https://fileforum.betanews.com/downl...e/1364214245/1
http://download.betanews.com/downloa...r_free_8.9.exe
I saved it to C:\archive\editor\pspdf\pdfshaper\.
Doubleclick on pdfshaper_free_8.9.exe to install.
It wants to install into C:\Program Files (x86)\PDF Shaper Free
I put it into C:\app\editor\pspdf\pdfshaper
Desktop Target: C:\app\editor\pspdf\pdfshaper\PDFShaper.exe
After installation, an "Avast" optional offer pops up on your screen
NOTE: This popup is part of the softawre as it's not a browser popup!
Obviously you will be hitting "Decline".
Then the same thing happens for WinZip (obviously hit "Decline").
Then it will launch PDF Shaper Free.
It then phones home to: http://www.pdfshaper.com/after-install.html
In Settings, turn off the check for updates on startup.
================================================== ==========================
Test 1:
o File PDF to RTF Add (find test1.pdf) Process test1.rtf
Result:
o As expected, the editable document was screwed up when viewed in Word.
================================================== ==========================
Test 2:
o File PDF to Image Add (find test1.pdf) Process
Result:
o Test{1,2,3}.jpg (where, at least by default, the quality was bad)
================================================== ==========================
Test 3:
o File Delete Pages Add (find test1.pdf) Options
(o)Delete selected pages = 1-2
Process (choose a new file name, like "test2.pdf")
Result:
o This is a very nice way to easily delete pages in a PDF.
================================================== ==========================
================================================== ==========================

On Wed, 1 May 2019 18:59:47 -0000 (UTC), Arlen G. Holder wrote:

It's a very nice quick-and-easy freeware tool for two things though, IMHO:
o Delete pages in a PDF file
o Rotate pages in a PDF file

Hi Eric Stevens,

For PDF page rotation freeware, I like your purposefully helpful pdfshaper
suggestion, where I had tested out the following "PDF-Xchange Viewer",
which is also a page rotator, but not much else (IMHO), but which I include
the quicktest of for others to benefit from the effort, as Usenet is a
potluck picnic for adults to benefit from the actions of others who are
purposefully helpful.

================================================== ==========================
PDF-XChange PDF Viewer, version 2.5, build 322.0
o Is a freeware PDF viewer, with
o free OCR
o and free page rotation
And that's about it, realistically.
o It can do rudimentary text editing, but it was almost worthless IMHO

Note it insists on using your "userid" that you logged in as.
================================================== ==========================
https://www.tracker-software.com/pro...oad?fileid=446
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/EGotfgDntXA/x0a5zw9EBgAJ
http://downloads.pdf-xchange.com/PDFXVwer.zip
================================================== ==========================
I saved it to C:\archive\editor\pspdf\pdfxchange\PDFXVwer.zip
Extract to .\PDFXVwer\PDFXVW1.xml & .\PDFXVwer\PDFXVwer.exe
Doubleclick on the PDFXVwer.exe to install.
It wants to install into C:\Program Files\Tracker Software
I put it into C:\app\editor\pspdf\pdfxchange
Target: "C:\app\editor\pspdf\pdfxchange\PDF Viewer\PDFXCview.exe"
After installation, set "Edit Preferences" as desired.
================================================== ==========================
Note that this free version:
o Can't insert pages
o Can't delete pages
o Can't really do much other than OCR & rotate pages.
================================================== ==========================
My suggestion is to use pdfshaper instead, if you need to rotate pages.
http://www.pdfshaper.com
================================================== ==========================

On 5/1/2019 11:12 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
While I didn't try the Adobe Reader, I have the Adobe Writer (aka Acrobat),
version 6, which can rudimentarily edit existing text, but it has nowhere
near even the most basic of required functionality, e.g.,
The Free Adobe Reader DC Version 2019.010.20099 is quite different from
Adobe Writer version 6. I believe the current Adobe Writer (Acrobat) is
about version 11.

https://acrobat.adobe.com/us/en/acrobat/pdf-reader.html

Several version ago one of the features added was an improved commenting
feature. You could add balloon text to the document and save it with
the text balloons, or you could add text to parts of the document
itself. You can do this by creating a box in the document hit Control
T, adding the text to the window that opened and hitting OK.

When I fill out a form, scanned image or text base, I use the method
available when you click Comments in the right side pane of a document
opened in an Adobe window. Clicking comment opens a toolbar across the
top of the document panel. It says COMMENTS, shows the Comment balloon,
followed by a dozen editing icons, like the text entering icon,
highlight, etc.

From this Editing Toolbar I select the capital T about the center of
the toolbar. place the cursor where I want to enter text and start
typing. If you click the three dots on the right of the toolbar, it
gives you the ability to change the font, color, and type of font of the
text you are adding.

I do not believe this last method of adding text to the document was
available in version 6, and is entirely different that it was in early
versions.

You may have decided not to upgrade to this new version as it added what
appears to be an advertising section of Adobe products, but this
improved commenting is worth the Adobe products icons.




selectable
resizable fonts, and it didn't seem to_add_ text (it would only edit
existing test in my quick test before abandoning that approach).


--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

On 5/1/2019 2:09 PM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
As you noted,
o Some PDF forms are intended to be printed, signed, scanned, & digitized
o While other PDF forms are designed to be directly editable.

But all PDF forms_should_ (IMHO), be editable by the user (if they so desire).
See my comments, ANY form, whether image based or text base, can be
filled out using the current Adobe PDF Reader DC which is FREE. It is
also designed so that you can add a signature to that document. Caveat
is that you must scan your signature and added to the Adobe Reader.

--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

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Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 5/1/2019 2:09 PM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
As you noted,
o Some PDF forms are intended to be printed, signed, scanned, & digitized
o While other PDF forms are designed to be directly editable.

But all PDF forms_should_ (IMHO), be editable by the user (if they
so desire).
See my comments, ANY form, whether image based or text base, can be
filled out using the current Adobe PDF Reader DC which is FREE. It is
also designed so that you can add a signature to that document. Caveat
is that you must scan your signature and added to the Adobe Reader.


I think Arlen is using "form" to mean ANY document that is intended to
be filled out -- and is missing the point that there is a specific type
of PDF subtype (XFA document, and others?) that is referred to as "a PDF
Form".

So he is indeed working with "a form" (as in "print it out and fill in
the blanks with blue or black ink), just not "a *PDF* form" (as in what
you're talking about).



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On Wed, 1 May 2019 16:35:49 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote:

See my comments, ANY form, whether image based or text base, can be
filled out using the current Adobe PDF Reader DC which is FREE. It is
also designed so that you can add a signature to that document. Caveat
is that you must scan your signature and added to the Adobe Reader.

Hi Keith,

Thanks for that admonishment, where are different kinds of PDFs, e.g.,
o A PDF of "something" (anything), which can be a bitmap for all we know
o A PDF of pure text of some format (which is the easiest to deal with)
o A PDF in a specific editable "form" format, which is a special beast

To be clear, we're talking about the 1st item above; not the latter two.

In my humble experience, the Adobe editing of the former is nearly
worthless, even with the Adobe PDF Writer.

Nonetheless, I tested your suggestion even though I hated older installs of
the Adobe Acrobat Reader almost as much as I hate Google Chrome (for
similar shenanigans), or the iTunes abomination (for not installing stuff
where they belong and for worthless bloat), where I faithfully tested this
Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, version 2019.101.20099, finding it to be about as
worthless as software can possibly be, IMHO.

Here's my ad-hoc log of my horrid experience with installing it just now.

1. Obtain the latest Adobe PDF Reader DC 2019.101.20099 for Windows.
https://get.adobe.com/reader/
https://acrobat.adobe.com/us/en/acrobat/pdf-reader.html

2. If desired, uncheck "Install the Acrobat Reader Chrome Extension".

3. If desired, uncheck the "free McAfee Security Scan Plus" box.

4. If desired, uncheck the"Install McAfee Save Connect" box.

5. If desired, uncheck the "Install Google Chrome" box.

6. If desired, uncheck the "Install the Adobe Reader Chrome Extension" box.

7. Click on the yellow "Install now" button.
This will download the stub named "readerdc_en_xa_crd_install.exe" from...
https://admdownload.adobe.com/bin/live/readerdc_en_xa_crd_install.exe

8. Save a copy of that stub (just in case), as it wipes itself out when you
run it.

9. Doubleclick on the downloaded stub "readerdc_en_xa_crd_install.exe",
where the real installer will be downloaded even though the form that comes
up says "Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, Installation will begin shortly"...

10. There is likely a place where the full offline network installer
downloaded, but I don't know that location, off hand, so we can't even
archive the installer until we figure that out (or if we sign up for an OEM
license separately).

11. The installation asks if you want to run it and then asks if you want
to make it the default PDF reader, which you can say "Yes" to if you like.

12. The installer is so poorly written that it doesn't even _ask_ where it
should go, which is the classic mark of a POS software program, of which
only about 1% of the programs out there are _that_ poorly written (IMHO).

13. As a result of the poor programming, the software installs into the
wrong location, where the desktop shortcut target is:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Acrobat Reader DC\Reader\AcroRd32.exe"

14. Even though the software is clearly a POS, open up the desired PDF
where at the right side, under a blue "Convert" button, you'll see "Edit
PDF" in red, but that apparently requires you to "sign in" to something, so
that's a bust.

15. In the "File" menu, there's an option to "Convert to Word, Excel, or
Powerpoint", which pops you up to a form trying to extract money from you
at: https://acrobat.adobe.com/us/en/landing/exportpdf-pricing-b.html

16. In the "Edit" menu, there's an option to "Edit Text & Images", where it
pops you to the _same_ idiotic button that the Share Edit option popped
up, where you have to click the blue "Add" button, and where that brings
you yet another form attempting to extract money from you at
https://acrobat.adobe.com/us/en/landing/edit-pricing.html

17. At this point, close it down as the conclusion is clear that it's
utterly worthless as anything but a dumb PDF viewer.

18. Delete the Adobe Acrobat Reader DC from your system and don't fall for
this garbage ever again.

As folks here know, I install a _lot_ of software to test it, where I've
rarely come across such a piece of **** as this latest Adobe Acrobat Reader
DC proved itself to be.

Only the most gullible sheep on the planet would fall for the myriad tricks
and shenanigans that this software abomination tried to pull on me just
now, IMHO.

In article ,
says...

2. Install Ghostscript 9.10 freeware (where that version no longer
exists):
http://www.ghostscript.com/download/

A clarification here; Ghostscript is *NOT* 'freeware', it is open-
source, licensed under the AGPL version 3, which is not the same thing
at all.

I agree that, for a home user, the difference is entirely moot, but
legally there is a substantial difference.

In passing, anyone wanting to use Ghostscript should use the current
version 9.27. Version 9.10 is now 5 years old and has a number of well-
publicised security problems.



Ken

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Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Wed, 1 May 2019 16:35:49 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote:

See my comments, ANY form, whether image based or text base, can be
filled out using the current Adobe PDF Reader DC which is FREE. It is
also designed so that you can add a signature to that document. Caveat
is that you must scan your signature and added to the Adobe Reader.

Hi Keith,

Thanks for that admonishment, where are different kinds of PDFs, e.g.,
o A PDF of "something" (anything), which can be a bitmap for all we know
o A PDF of pure text of some format (which is the easiest to deal with)
o A PDF in a specific editable "form" format, which is a special beast

To be clear, we're talking about the 1st item above; not the latter two.

So you're not talking about a form then. In which case, it is
non-editable with freeware -- at least without some (potentially
convoluted) processing that takes you through two or more different
programs.

In my humble experience, the Adobe editing of the former is nearly
worthless, even with the Adobe PDF Writer.

That's the whole point -- you're not supposed to be able to edit a
published PDF. The idea being anyone and everyone looks at the same
static document.

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On 5/2/2019 2:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Wed, 1 May 2019 16:35:49 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote:

See my comments, ANY form, whether image based or text base, can be
filled out using the current Adobe PDF Reader DC which is FREE. It is
also designed so that you can add a signature to that document. Caveat
is that you must scan your signature and added to the Adobe Reader.

Hi Keith,

Thanks for that admonishment, where are different kinds of PDFs, e.g.,
o A PDF of "something" (anything), which can be a bitmap for all we know
o A PDF of pure text of some format (which is the easiest to deal with)
o A PDF in a specific editable "form" format, which is a special beast



Did not mean that to be an admonishment, but many people think all PDF
documents are the same.


14. Even though the software is clearly a POS, open up the desired PDF
where at the right side, under a blue "Convert" button, you'll see "Edit
PDF" in red, but that apparently requires you to "sign in" to something, so
that's a bust.


You were on the right track, but then made a wrong turn. In that panel
where you found "Edit PDF", click "Comments" right below it. This adds
the Comment toolbar above the document panel.

Using the Capital "T" icon form the Comments toolbar, you can move your
cursor to the place on the document (Form) where you want to add the
text. Type the response to the form request and and move the cursor to
the next request space to add the next response.

There are other ways to add text to the document, but I find this works
best for filling out form.

This method would be a bit cumbersome if you were actually editing the
form instead of filling out the form. From the discussion, I felt the
OP intention was to add response to the question on a form, not edit
information contained in the form structure and text itself.

My wife enters a lot of art shows and there is always a forms to fill
out. This is the method we use to fill out those forms. I have even
used it to complete legal and bank forms. For an image form you may
have to do some image processing steps to get the lines in the form square.



--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

On Thu, 2 May 2019 10:58:58 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote:

Did not mean that to be an admonishment, but many people think all PDF
documents are the same.

Hi Keith,

I APPRECIATE your suggestion, and your clarification of the types of PDF,
as Usenet is a Potluck Picnic, where each post should help everyone, and
where your post will help those who aren't familiar with the fact that PDFs
have text, links, forms, and are often mere bitmaps.

I've been using the Distiller and then the writer since, oh, about version
4, and then 5, and then 6, and then 7 when I stopped because they started
to pull shenanigans at version 7 with connecting to the Internet. I have a
copy of 7 but I never use it as Acrobat is like ES File Explorer, in that
it gets worse with every newer version in terms of shenanigans it tries to
pull.

Mostly I use it for the control+shift+o option of creating a PDF containing
all the pages referenced in any particular HTML location, where, depending
on your settings, you could literally archive the entire Internet into that
single huge PDF if you're not careful with the options.

I've tried for _years_ to _replace_ that one feature of the writer with
freeware, but alas, nobody knows (last I checked) of any freeware that can
archive a web site into a comprehensive single (often large) PDF where
every click inside that PDF takes you to another page inside that PDF.

TO my knowledge, _everything_ else that the Adobe Acrobat Writer does can
be replicated with freeware, although I rarely edit PDFs anymore, and where
simply converting the PDF to a bitmap allows editing "on" the PDF.

As you know, I'm always seeking general-purpose solutions, which often
(almost always actually) need to involve freeware tools, but I did test an
older version of Adobe Photoshop on the multiple-page PDF, where Photoshop
asks to "import" each page individually (which is actually a nice feature),
and then you can use any of scores of fonts to "annotate" the PDF.

There was no "save to PDF" option though, nor an "export to PDF" that I
could see, but you can always "print to PDF" the final results, which
accomplishes the desired task, if not directly with a "save" or "export".

You were on the right track, but then made a wrong turn. In that panel
where you found "Edit PDF", click "Comments" right below it. This adds
the Comment toolbar above the document panel.

Hi Keith,
Thanks for that clarification, which will help others. I will re-install
that POS Adobe Acrobat Reader from a saved copy of the downloaded stub
(where I prefer to archive the full installers instead).

I already tried a "similar" feature with Adobe Acrobat 6, but I'll test out
the DC 10 similar feature just to be sure that it's a viable option.

The key question is what fonts are available to this Adobe Reader DC text
editing capability, where the need is for a selectable set of fonts,
perhaps a few dozen or so, which are what we already have in the current
solution.

If there is no choice of fonts, as is the case (as I recall) with the
Acrobat Writer that I have installed, then it's useless for the stated
purpose.

This method would be a bit cumbersome if you were actually editing the
form instead of filling out the form. From the discussion, I felt the
OP intention was to add response to the question on a form, not edit
information contained in the form structure and text itself.

Yes. The "form" is merely a bunch of questions with answers put on lines,
where the lines would remain just as if we hand typed on a typewriter onto
the form and hand signed it at the bottom.

As always, I want to stress that I easily solved the problem with freeware;
but I'm simply looking for a simpler solution than to edit the PDF in an
image editor such as Photoshop or Paint.NET.

It would be nice, for example, if the venerable Irfanview would do the job,
but the text editing in Irfanview is far too rudimentary to be of any
practical value (as was the Adobe Acrobat Writer 6, which didn't have any
font selection.

My wife enters a lot of art shows and there is always a forms to fill
out. This is the method we use to fill out those forms. I have even
used it to complete legal and bank forms. For an image form you may
have to do some image processing steps to get the lines in the form square.

Irfanview has a wonderful "F12" paint-dialog option to straighten out an
image, where if the margins are monochromatic, Irfanview does a pretty good
job straightening out a crooked (usually scanned) PDF.

On 5/2/2019 1:48 PM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
The key question is what fonts are available to this Adobe Reader DC text
editing capability, where the need is for a selectable set of fonts,
perhaps a few dozen or so, which are what we already have in the current
solution.

I may have mis-counted but there may be as many as 200 different fonts
in the Free Adobe Reader DC when used as I described with 10 different
font sizes.

Again I did not count them but there is more fonts in Adobe Reader than
in Word Perfect. Its been years since I used MS Word so can not comment.
--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

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Yrrah wrote:
Dan Purgert :

That's the whole point -- you're not supposed to be able to edit a
published PDF.

Exactly. PDF is an end format. It's meant to be a virtually printed
document and not an editable word processor file.

Best description I've read of "what" a PDF actually is in like, ever.


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On Fri, 3 May 2019 15:26:41 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

Best description I've read of "what" a PDF actually is in like, ever.

On Fri, 3 May 2019 15:26:41 -0000 (UTC), in alt.comp.os.windows-10 you
wrote:

Best description I've read of "what" a PDF actually is in like, ever.

Hi Dan Purgert,

Facts first; and then rational adult logic deduced from those facts.

A phone is primarily to make phone calls, right?

If I said that a phone was only supposed to be used to make phone calls, so
nobody should use it as, oh, I don't know, a "baby monitor", then would you
(and the others who miscomprehend "what" a PDF truly is), say that it's the
wrong use for a phone?

The point is that _you_ may be extremely limited in what _you_ do with a
PDF, just as you may be extremely limited with what you do with a pair of
pliers or any tool, but most adults can do quite a few things with a PDF.

The fact that _you_ can't do those things with a PDF, or, more to your
point, you feel that the _only_ way to use a PDF is the vastly limited way
in which _you_ use a PDF, doesn't mean that a PDF can be used in a variety
of ways.

*It just means that _you_ are limited in what you can do; not the PDF.*

On Fri, 3 May 2019 16:18:40 -0000 (UTC), Arlen G. Holder wrote:

The fact that _you_ can't do those things with a PDF, or, more to your
point, you feel that the _only_ way to use a PDF is the vastly limited way
in which _you_ use a PDF, doesn't mean that a PDF can be used in a variety
of ways.

*It just means that _you_ are limited in what you can do; not the PDF.*

Oooooops... Correction, in that I missed a negative in that expression...

Just because you feel that the _only_ way to use a PDF is the shockingly
limited way in which _you_ use a PDF, doesn't mean that a PDF can't be used
in a variety of ways by a more creative person than you appear to be.

As usual with your statements, Dan Purgert...
*It just means that _you_ are vastly limited in what you can do; not the PDF.*

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Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Fri, 3 May 2019 15:26:41 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:
Best description I've read of "what" a PDF actually is in like, ever.

Hi Dan Purgert,

Facts first; and then rational adult logic deduced from those facts.

A phone is primarily to make phone calls, right?

If I said that a phone was only supposed to be used to make phone
calls, so nobody should use it as, oh, I don't know, a "baby monitor",
then would you (and the others who miscomprehend "what" a PDF truly
is), say that it's the wrong use for a phone?

Of course, a telephone is the wrong device to use as a baby monitor.
Yes, it works in a pinch, but it's not the right tool for the job --
much like a pair of slip-joint pliers is a sub-par choice for loosening
a nut or hex-head screw (as opposed to a wrench or socket).

So far, you are the only person posting here who seems to not comprehend
the purpose of a PDF.


The point is that _you_ may be extremely limited in what _you_ do with a
PDF, just as you may be extremely limited with what you do with a pair of
pliers or any tool, but most adults can do quite a few things with a PDF.

A PDF is a specific document format that's intended to provide "digital
printouts" (i.e. UNEDITABLE versions) of documents, books, magazines,
etc. And yes, "documents" can include those of type "form".

That being said, there is a SPECIFIC TYPE of "Portable Document Format"
file that allows for the viewing party to have some degree of
editability, which is given the specific name "PDF Form".


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