If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Rate Thread | Display Modes |
#46
|
|||
|
|||
RAR Files
On 26/06/2019 20.54, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote: On 26/06/2019 19.25, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:32:29 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: Question. Does proper backup to DVD software exists on Windows, that do error prevention and recovery? That's a conundrum. Can backup software be considered "proper" if it's backing up to DVD? Didn't backup to optical media become obsolete something like 15+ years ago for DVD, and even longer ago for CD-R? Blueray. Besides external hard disks stored in a safe box, what else is available for home users? The largest BluRay (write-once) is 100GB. The media is expensive (and the pricing is based on how many DVDs it replaces). 25 of 25GB at 23,71€ at Amazon. Verbatim 43811. 0,037936€ per gig. 10 of 50GB at 37.50€ Verbatim 43746. 0,075€ per gig So the smaller ones are way cheaper per gigabyte. Some are archival quality: 5 * Verbatim BDXL 100GB (jewel case) 96.74€. 0,19348€ per gig. And you can get re-writable media. I did not know that. I suppose it needs a suitable drive. Ah, no, your link says no. labeled BD-RE. https://www.verbatim.com/subcat/opti...blu-ray/bd-re/ And I learned something new today... Verbatim is owned by Mitsubishi Chemical. Oh. ******* Example of archival BD materials. https://www.amazon.ca/Verbatim-M-Dis.../dp/B011PIJPOC Yes. that's the one I mentioned above. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
Ads |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
RAR Files
On 26/06/2019 20.59, nospam wrote:
In article , Carlos E.R. wrote: Besides external hard disks stored in a safe box, what else is available for home users? a local nas, optionally (and ideally) synced to the cloud. Unreliable. A nas is basically a disk connected full time, so it will die. It lasts longer if it is only powered when needed, but for that usage an external disk is cheaper. Syncing to the cloud at terabyte sizes is not free, nor negligible cost. Has a cost per time, and they do not warranty that will not disappear when they wish (some indeed have disappeared). Also, you need a thick internet pipe. There is also a privacy issue, encryption is needed. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#48
|
|||
|
|||
RAR Files
On 26/06/2019 21.26, Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 20:08:48 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 26/06/2019 19.25, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:32:29 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: Question. Does proper backup to DVD software exists on Windows, that do error prevention and recovery? That's a conundrum. Can backup software be considered "proper" if it's backing up to DVD? Didn't backup to optical media become obsolete something like 15+ years ago for DVD, and even longer ago for CD-R? Blueray. Besides external hard disks stored in a safe box, what else is available for home users? Web-based backup, such as Carbonite. I meant also at home, under my full control. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_online_backup_services What is the cost per terabyte and year, anyway? Full backups, not selected files. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#49
|
|||
|
|||
RAR Files
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 26/06/2019 19.25, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:32:29 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: Question. Does proper backup to DVD software exists on Windows, that do error prevention and recovery? That's a conundrum. Can backup software be considered "proper" if it's backing up to DVD? Didn't backup to optical media become obsolete something like 15+ years ago for DVD, and even longer ago for CD-R? Blueray. Besides external hard disks stored in a safe box, what else is available for home users? AFAICT, your scenario implies the need for 1) large capacity backup and 2) backup protected from disasters (as theft, fire, etc.). If that's indeed the/your scenario: I solve 1) with a local NAS (which nospam also mentioned) and 2) with two external hard disks which are swapped between on-site and off-site. Just before the disks are swapped, a full backup is made to the disk which is about to go off-site. The time between swaps is protected by doing incremental backups of the most important stuff to the cloud. So whatever happens to the on-site system, disk and NAS, there's always a full backup off-site and incremental backup in the cloud. N.B. I only (incrementally) backup the most important stuff to the cloud in order to save bandwidth (i.e. higher speed) and cloud storage costs. |
#50
|
|||
|
|||
RAR Files
On 26/06/2019 20.48, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote: On 26/06/2019 19.32, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:35:23 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: .... I know enterprise people doing backup to tape often, today. They use LTO. The units are very expensive, starting at 1500€ for an LTO-6 It's pretty simple. Look at the price of certified tape, versus the price of a hard drive you can trust. Tapes are affordable, but the drive unit is prohibitive. I had one HD die suddenly two weeks ago. Full and complete death without warning (in SMART). 95% sectors unreadable, possibly electronic death. I noticed another (apparently) tape format, RDX. The drives are 100..300€, tapes 100€ for a 500GB unit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDX_Technology it says they are hard disk cartridges inside. Maybe the translation at the site I saw it first was bad. https://www.alternate.es/Tandberg/RDX-QuikStor-unidad-de-cinta-Unidad-RDX/html/product/869888? English site: https://www.alternate.co.uk/Tandberg/RDX-QuikStor-tape-drive-RDX-drive/html/product/869888?event=search Yes. Translation issue. And in terms of characteristics, IT people know how tape works, what maintenance it requires (rewind once in a while, for the cartridges, run a cleaning cassette once in a while on the drive). The tape wouldn't be destroyed by an EMP. The fastest tape drive I ever heard of, was 1GB/sec, but the cartridge for that, was a joke. Saw the sample at a conference. I thought the cartridge was a stage prop at first, because it was so big. On tape farms, a layer of HDD caches are used. You run your backups in the wee hours, with the expected "window" for your incrementals, and the images are stored on the hard drive, until the tape autoloader can copy the materials. With a good autoloader, all what you need is someone labeling the materials before storage. If the tapes had an RFID tag, or a bar code, even that could be automated. Yes. Serious things. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#51
|
|||
|
|||
RAR Files
In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote: Besides external hard disks stored in a safe box, what else is available for home users? a local nas, optionally (and ideally) synced to the cloud. Unreliable. nonsense. a nas is *extremely* reliable, and with minimal fuss. configure it with as much redundancy as you deem cost-effective. done. one redundant drive (e.g., raid5) is good enough for most people, but more critical needs might warrant two redundant drives (e.g., raid6). A nas is basically a disk connected full time, actually, it's much more than that. a nas is essentially a headless computer (usually running linux) with a bunch of attached hard drives, and can also run a variety of apps. in this case, a cloud sync app could link to any of a variety of cloud services and sync the nas with one or more services. backups are done locally to the nas and the nas takes care of the rest. the chances that the computer *and* the nas *and* the cloud service (assume one for now) *all* fail at the same time is *extremely* low. so it will die. so will the computer, the user and everything else. that's why people have backups. the more backups, the less likely a disaster will cause total loss. It lasts longer if it is only powered when needed, false. hard drives last longest when constantly spinning. it's the repeated spin-up/spin-down that wears them out. it's different if a drive is used every few months (or even every year or two), but that is *not* a backup drive. but for that usage an external disk is cheaper. also less reliable, since there's no redundancy, and often with lower quality drives. Syncing to the cloud at terabyte sizes is not free, nor negligible cost. who said anything about free? how much is your data worth? how much would it cost to recreate it in the event of a disaster? if your house burns down, the cloud is all you will have. Has a cost per time, and they do not warranty that will not disappear when they wish (some indeed have disappeared). almost none. google, amazon, microsoft, apple, etc., aren't going to disappear any time soon, certainly not in the lifetime of anyone reading these posts. you're also ignoring that a local hard drive is *far* more likely to 'disappear', as in fail, than any cloud service. it's also at risk for loss due to fire, flood, theft, etc., not just a hardware failure. cloud services have multiple data centers spread across the country or planet, so in the event of any type of disaster, *nothing* is lost. for a home user to duplicate that level of reliability on their own is a *lot* of work and a *lot* of money and it won't be anywhere near as reliable. Also, you need a thick internet pipe. which most people have, but if not, many services will accept a seed drive for the initial upload. after that, the incrementals are minor. There is also a privacy issue, encryption is needed. yep. enable encryption and type in a good passphrase. done. |
#52
|
|||
|
|||
RAR Files
On 26/06/2019 22.12, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote: On 26/06/2019 19.25, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:32:29 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: Question. Does proper backup to DVD software exists on Windows, that do error prevention and recovery? That's a conundrum. Can backup software be considered "proper" if it's backing up to DVD? Didn't backup to optical media become obsolete something like 15+ years ago for DVD, and even longer ago for CD-R? Blueray. Besides external hard disks stored in a safe box, what else is available for home users? AFAICT, your scenario implies the need for 1) large capacity backup and 2) backup protected from disasters (as theft, fire, etc.). I'm not worried much by #2. If that's indeed the/your scenario: I solve 1) with a local NAS (which nospam also mentioned) and 2) with two external hard disks which are swapped between on-site and off-site. Just before the disks are swapped, a full backup is made to the disk which is about to go off-site. The time between swaps is protected by doing incremental backups of the most important stuff to the cloud. So whatever happens to the on-site system, disk and NAS, there's always a full backup off-site and incremental backup in the cloud. N.B. I only (incrementally) backup the most important stuff to the cloud in order to save bandwidth (i.e. higher speed) and cloud storage costs. Which is basically what I say, backup to hard disk kept off-line. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#53
|
|||
|
|||
RAR Files
In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote: Besides external hard disks stored in a safe box, what else is available for home users? AFAICT, your scenario implies the need for 1) large capacity backup and 2) backup protected from disasters (as theft, fire, etc.). I'm not worried much by #2. you should be. disaster can strike *anywhere*, and without warning. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/art...YHgCNP0G/do-yo u-live-in-the-british-tornado-alley When you think of tornados you probably imagine twisters moving across dust-bowls in the United States, but in fact the UK gets an average of 30-50 tornadoes a year. That¹s more tornadoes per land area than anywhere else in the world (except * weirdly * the Netherlands.) https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-eu...spain-floods-h it-malaga-murcia-and-almeria Deadly Spain floods hit Malaga, Murcia and Almeria .... The strength of the waters overturned cars, closed roads, damaged homes and forced hundreds to leave their properties. At least 600 people had to be evacuated from their homes in Andalucia region. http://www.severe-weather.eu/recent-...-and-torrentia l-downpours-in-eastern-spain-jan-6-2018/ Thunderstorms hit eastern Spain this afternoon, resulting in torrential downpours, hail and tornadoes. |
#54
|
|||
|
|||
RAR Files
On 26/06/2019 23.06, nospam wrote:
In article , Carlos E.R. wrote: Besides external hard disks stored in a safe box, what else is available for home users? AFAICT, your scenario implies the need for 1) large capacity backup and 2) backup protected from disasters (as theft, fire, etc.). I'm not worried much by #2. you should be. disaster can strike *anywhere*, and without warning. I'm aware of that. But for this application, if such a disaster happens, the loss of this data is not what worries me most. Only some of the data would be that important. But if I were, I would simply store the external hard disk inside a vault, or on another site. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#55
|
|||
|
|||
RAR Files
In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote: But for this application, if such a disaster happens, the loss of this data is not what worries me most. Only some of the data would be that important. then put *that* data in the cloud, as well as multiple local copies. But if I were, I would simply store the external hard disk inside a vault, or on another site. the problem is keeping it up to date, as well access when needed. |
#56
|
|||
|
|||
RAR Files
|
#57
|
|||
|
|||
RAR Files
Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote: On 26/06/2019 19.25, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:32:29 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: Question. Does proper backup to DVD software exists on Windows, that do error prevention and recovery? That's a conundrum. Can backup software be considered "proper" if it's backing up to DVD? Didn't backup to optical media become obsolete something like 15+ years ago for DVD, and even longer ago for CD-R? Blueray. Besides external hard disks stored in a safe box, what else is available for home users? The largest BluRay (write-once) is 100GB. The media is expensive (and the pricing is based on how many DVDs it replaces). And you can get re-writable media. https://www.verbatim.com/subcat/opti...blu-ray/bd-re/ And I learned something new today... Verbatim is owned by Mitsubishi Chemical. ******* Example of archival BD materials. https://www.amazon.ca/Verbatim-M-Dis.../dp/B011PIJPOC Aren't BRDs still slow like DVDs and CDs? They take forever to burn and read. -- Quote of the Week: "Oh, look what Kyle got me, it's a red Mega... Ants in the pants? Ants in the pants?! Ants in the Pants?!! ..." --Eric Cartman in South Park's Damien Episode (Season 1; Episode 8) Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. | |o o| | \ _ / ( ) |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
RAR Files
Ant wrote:
Paul wrote: Carlos E.R. wrote: On 26/06/2019 19.25, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:32:29 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: Question. Does proper backup to DVD software exists on Windows, that do error prevention and recovery? That's a conundrum. Can backup software be considered "proper" if it's backing up to DVD? Didn't backup to optical media become obsolete something like 15+ years ago for DVD, and even longer ago for CD-R? Blueray. Besides external hard disks stored in a safe box, what else is available for home users? The largest BluRay (write-once) is 100GB. The media is expensive (and the pricing is based on how many DVDs it replaces). And you can get re-writable media. https://www.verbatim.com/subcat/opti...blu-ray/bd-re/ And I learned something new today... Verbatim is owned by Mitsubishi Chemical. ******* Example of archival BD materials. https://www.amazon.ca/Verbatim-M-Dis.../dp/B011PIJPOC Aren't BRDs still slow like DVDs and CDs? They take forever to burn and read. I think the write-once ones go pretty fast. The re-writeable, not so much. I thought you could hit close to 30MB/sec. Which for 25GB, is going to take a while. Could take 15 minutes to write and 15 minutes to verify. The 100GB sized ones, the write speed is likely to be a lot less, and you're writing four times as much data. That would be a snoozer. Pack a picnic lunch. It's probably like the DVDs I've tested here. I use a lot of re-writeable media, which is slow. Then, I had a -R sitting around (part of media sampling for some DVD drive here), and gave it a try and it was a lot faster. Paul |
#59
|
|||
|
|||
RAR Files
On 27/06/2019 09.07, Ant wrote:
Paul wrote: Carlos E.R. wrote: On 26/06/2019 19.25, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:32:29 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: Question. Does proper backup to DVD software exists on Windows, that do error prevention and recovery? That's a conundrum. Can backup software be considered "proper" if it's backing up to DVD? Didn't backup to optical media become obsolete something like 15+ years ago for DVD, and even longer ago for CD-R? Blueray. Besides external hard disks stored in a safe box, what else is available for home users? The largest BluRay (write-once) is 100GB. The media is expensive (and the pricing is based on how many DVDs it replaces). And you can get re-writable media. https://www.verbatim.com/subcat/opti...blu-ray/bd-re/ And I learned something new today... Verbatim is owned by Mitsubishi Chemical. ******* Example of archival BD materials. https://www.amazon.ca/Verbatim-M-Dis.../dp/B011PIJPOC Aren't BRDs still slow like DVDs and CDs? They take forever to burn and read. Yes, they are slow to write. about 6x, whatever that is. But not that slow to read. Yes, it is a hurdle, but you do not read them unless an emergency. And if they are archives, it is also material you do not expect to read often, or you'd have them on HD. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|