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#31
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T wrote:
[...] "OAuth2 (gmail, yahoo)". Yes, you can disable it on gMail and Yahoo, but the ass holes keep sending out robo eMail telling the user to "Turn off untrusted apps" and it "scares" the users, so they eventually turn it off, despite what I say, and it breaks those clients not using AOuth2. For Gmail, you can get around this problem by using an App Password instead of OAuth2. For how to do this, see Ralph Fox' 09SEP2018 post "Google screwed up my Gmail acct in Thunderbird" in alt.windows7.general: or Message-ID: or http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3C0ud8pd5m6ler41kl %3E or Get a *real* newsreader! :-) Ralph's post talks about POP (which I needed), but it's also applicable to SMTP (which you need). FWIW, I've no such problems with Yahoo, but I only POP from them, i.e. no SMTP. N.B. Thanks Ralph! |
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#32
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On 6/27/19 11:54 AM, T wrote:
On 6/26/19 9:47 PM, VanguardLH wrote: Aren't the one still using the 8-year unsupported Cobian backup software? Yup.Â* And I am looking for an alternative again.Â* Must be 1) open source 2) have plain backups able to be read by any reader 3) eMail reports OAuth2 would be a plus 4) pre and post events. And I almost forgot, but 5) support Volume Shadow copy. Some still don't. What a joke! |
#33
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On 6/27/19 12:56 PM, Paul wrote:
T wrote: On 6/27/19 11:54 AM, T wrote: On 6/26/19 9:47 PM, VanguardLH wrote: Aren't the one still using the 8-year unsupported Cobian backup software? Yup.Â* And I am looking for an alternative again.Â* Must be 1) open source 2) have plain backups able to be read by any reader 3) eMail reports OAuth2 would be a plus 4) pre and post events. I keep thinking I might have to break down and write this myself. I really, really do not want to start that kind of project! I just do not have the time "A bottomless hole opens and swallows Todd" It's a good thing you stepped around that hole like that. Â*Â* Paul That pretty much describes writing it myself! |
#34
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On 6/27/19 1:14 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
If I were you, I would just continue to use Cobian Backup till it breaks. (I sure will do so for our systems.) That is what I am doing. The OAuth2 problem is starting to become a pain in the ass. As to your requirements: 1) open source Should be irrelevant. Most other software your customer and you use isn't open source either. (N.B. I've been doing Unix/UNIX/unix since nearly four decades, but I'm no open source zealot (nor a free software one).) It is not. Open Source keeps old version around for you if you need them. Paid softwaree only keep a certain amount around and want you to upgrade. So you pay them and upgrade, and guess what, your old version is too old and you lost everything. But, wait for a fee, you can send it to them and they will recover it for you. It is a scam. Commercial backups are a lock in to use their services. Not funny when disaster strikes. Open source also typically is driven by need, not by what locks you into paying for services. 3) eMail reports OAuth2 would be a plus Gmail alternative solution described in my other response. True. But you are not walking in my shoes. It does not matter what I tell the custom, when they get those constant eMailing to turn off less secure apps, the eventually do. Now, that means they don't get their eMail reports. BUT SINCE WHEN DO THEY READ THEM ANYWAY. I have to Cc myself on everything and check them for them. 2) and 4) are of course covered by Cobian Backup. BTW, is the backup device always on/connected? If so, then why don't you just use File History and be done with it? It wouldn't have 3) and 4), but there would be no need for those. You are thinking of a fully functioning machine. Think hard drive as paper weight. |
#35
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On 6/27/19 1:14 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
T wrote: [...] "OAuth2 (gmail, yahoo)". Yes, you can disable it on gMail and Yahoo, but the ass holes keep sending out robo eMail telling the user to "Turn off untrusted apps" and it "scares" the users, so they eventually turn it off, despite what I say, and it breaks those clients not using AOuth2. For Gmail, you can get around this problem by using an App Password instead of OAuth2. For how to do this, see Ralph Fox' 09SEP2018 post "Google screwed up my Gmail acct in Thunderbird" in alt.windows7.general: or Message-ID: or http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3C0ud8pd5m6ler41kl %3E or Get a *real* newsreader! :-) Ralph's post talks about POP (which I needed), but it's also applicable to SMTP (which you need). FWIW, I've no such problems with Yahoo, but I only POP from them, i.e. no SMTP. N.B. Thanks Ralph! Yes exactly, until the customer gets one too many turn off less secure apps and then it comes down around your ears. They lose their tape reports, but WHEN DO THEY EVER CHECK THEM ANYWAY! |
#36
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T wrote:
T wrote: VanguardLH wrote: Aren't [you] the one still using the 8-year unsupported Cobian backup software? Yup.* And I am looking for an alternative again.* Must be 1) open source 2) have plain backups able to be read by any reader 3) eMail reports OAuth2 would be a plus 4) pre and post events. 5) support Volume Shadow copy. So, let's see what I can do with non-OSS software that you are spending more time trying to figure out than deploy and would've had running a long time ago for your customers ... _ SyncbackFree _ - It is oriented to file backups which is what you want. No image backups. - Can do mirroring or one-way backups. - Compress the backups into a .zip file. o Each file can be saved in its own .zip file. o Or you can have all files in the sync job stored in the same .zip file. o Free version only uses PKZIP passwording (weak), not AES256, but this was not part of your criteria. - Set priority level separately for when you run it versus when the job runs when scheduled. o I run at normal priority for when I manually start it. I want it to start now and end soon. o I run at lower priority for when it is scheduled to run because other programs might be running then, and I'm not sitting at the computer waiting for the job to complete, so it can take longer. - Stop Windows from going into sleep mode while a job runs. - Supports FTP (and obviously mapped drives). Stay away from non-enterprise cloud setups, in your case. - Looks to support shares. - Supports NAS. - Works with Task Scheduler. Once you schedule a backup, you can go into Task Scheduler to tweak the scheduled event even further. There are more options in a Task Scheduler event than most programs ever take advantage of. - Uses a neat trick to detect ransomware corruption: you put a bait file in a common location that ransomware attacks, like the My Documents folder. If SyncBack cannot find or read the folder, it pre-aborts the sync/backup, so you aren't saving corrupted files atop your old backups. You want your untouched backup copies to restore from. - No cloud storage support, but you don't want that, anyway. - Supports OAUTH2 to send e-mails for job status. - No licensing limit. Install on however many hosts you want (payware version has 5 devices for home and 1 device for work limits). - Runs on Windows Vista, 7, 8, and 10. - Uses a hashing compare method to determine if the same-named same-pathed file has changed between source and destination folders. Better but slower than relying on the timestamp or checking file sizes. I'm sure they first check the timestamp and, if the same, compare the hashes. - Sync/Backup jobs grouped together can be ran concurrently or sequentially. Sequentially eliminates any conflicts on file access and doesn't flood as much the data bus, drives, or network. - File integrity checking, but makes the job take longer. - The free version doesn't have VSS, so, for example, it won't copy any inuse or locked files which could include the e-mail client's local database (e.g., .pst file for Outlook). However, they should already be off POP3 and have moved to IMAP4, and the IMAP server constitutes their backup. If they reinstall their IMAP client after a new OS install or change to a different one, all their e-mails are still sitting on the IMAP server to sync to the new IMAP client. If any of your customers are running SQL[ite] databases, none of the free or cheap programs are going to correctly back those up. You need backup software designed to quiesce the dabatase after merging any pending record changes. A purge of delete-flagged records would make the DB file smaller to reduce bandwidth and copy time for backing up the DB file. - Does not support VSS. But with the pre-command that runs before the sync/backup job, you can create your own shadow copy. Can't tell if their freeware version support pre- and post-commands (to run before and after a sync/backup). Not sure even after reading their help. Mentions SyncBackLite in their help for the pre- and post-command feature. SyncBackLite wasn't free (think it cost ~$20). They dropped that edition, so now you can get Free, SE, or Pro editions. Even it not included, once you schedule a sync/backup job, it uses Task Scheduler. So you could copy the command it runs and replace the event's command line with your own batch file to run the pre- and post commands around their command you paste into the batch file. I use Macrium Reflect Home which also uses Task Scheduler (no need to waste memory and CPU cycles on another program scheduler), and I even use that scheme to modify the batch file it creates for a backup job. If the Free edition doesn't have pre- and post-commands to enhance SyncBack, like creating shadow copies, you might just forego SyncBack and use robocopy already bundled in Windows. robocopy doesn't support VSS, either, but there are plenty of online articles guiding you through the process to create a shadow copy and then use robocopy to save copies of the files within. https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/adi...-command-line/ _SyncBackSE (in addition to the features in SyncBackFree)_ - Add incremental/delta and differential backups which are obviously a lot faster than full backups each time. - Supports VSS. Not enabled by default when you define a job (aka profile). When configuring the job, you turn it on. If you won't be copying any inuse/locked files, it just a wasted overhead. - In addition to the Windows platforms, runs on macOS, Android, and Linux. o You're posting in a Windows 10 newsgroup. No idea if your "customers" use other OS platforms. - Sends e-mail logs via SSL/TLS (in addition to job status). o Don't use Gmail's SMTP server if Google doesn't like Syncback as the MUA, or: * Disable the "insecure" option in Gmail. * The SMTP server used by SyncBack does NOT have to be the same e-mail provider as to whom the logs get sent. Whatever e-mail clients your customers are using now will work just fine to get the e-mails from SyncBack. Only if SyncBack itself has a problem with Gmail means disabling the "insecure option" or just go to a different free e-mail provider. There are lots of them. o As noted for the free version, OAUTH2 is supported. I'd still disable the "insecure" option in Gmail, though. o Compress the e-mailed logs to reduce impact on recipient's disk quotas and reduce transport time. - Monitor the profiles (jobs or groups of them) using an app on an Android phone. No need to want for e-mailing of logs. - Stronger AES256 encryption of .zip archives. - SecureZip: not only are the files encrypted in the .zip file but so are their filenames and folders. An intruder can't read the files but the file hierarchy could reveal information. - If you use NTFS file encryption, you have the option to backup/sync those files in non-encrypted format. No worries about assigned a secondary agent in case a user forgets the Windows login credentials. - Job resumes after a lost connection (just errors in the free version). - Real-time backup/sync when files or folders change. Instead of getting snapshots of files at the granularity of of the scheduled backup/sync jobs, you can immediately capture changed files. - Job auto-starts upon insertion of device (e.g., USB drive). o When the user inserts, say, a USB drive used for data-only backups, a profile (job) will auto-start; i.e., you put the backup media into a USB port and the job starts without you having to start it or wait for a scheduled job to start. - File Versioning. o I want this one and may upgrade to get it. o I've tried File History in Windows 10. Sucks. * Forces backup of "special" folders (Documents, Pics, Music, Video, etc) even if you don't want to include those (because your saving them using something else). * Misses some files. In my tests, when I finally got it working, it still missed a file. Doesn't sound bad unless that's the critical file that changed for which you need an old copy. o SyncBack's File Versioning replaces Windows' File History. o Renames the saved files using datestamping in their filename. Easy to discern which day a file was copied. o File History uses a tree hierarchy that's tough to figure out (but I did and without documentation). - Allows regex which can better define just what files are to be included in a sync job. - You can list programs that must be closed (requested to terminate) before a job begins; e.g., getting Outlook to exit, so its .pst file can get backed up. If locked/inuse files are due to programs having them open at the time of a sync job, this tries to close them. Sorry, but I do not believe a *company* cannot afford in their operating costs the $40 for SyncBackSE or $55 for SyncbackPro or other payware to protect their business. Unless these businesses are out in the field harvesting crops by hand, losing data means losing their business. If they're that cheap, they are NOT a business, and instead you're supporting a bunch of independent home users (and even those users manage to afford those prices if they really care about their data). Also, seems this much of your criteria is just YOUR criteria, not that of your customers'. Plus, your criteria never dictated the solution had to be free. If I can afford $40 for my personal use of SyncbackSE (in addition to backup payware) then your /*business*/ customers that are paying you for tech support can also afford it. Back 20-30 years ago, anyone saying they couldn't afford business cards or a separate phone line just for business was NOT running a real business. They were tinkering. There's something *fishy* about companies that cannot afford even personal-use priced backup software. There are costs to running a business. Products don't self-destruct when support for them ends. This isn't Mission Impossible. The products do not expire. Support expires. You can continue to use them indefinitely, just like you have with Cobian. SyncBack is foremost a mirroring or synchronization tool, and that's how I've used it. To make into a backup program where several old copies of files are retained, I'd have to do that in a post-command defined for the job. However, the File Versionig feature in the $40 SE edition would replace Windows' File History with something that works and provides a decent backup solution. As for OSS staying around forever, you know that's not true. Someone has to host the product and its files on their dime. People die, get disinterested, move, move on to new projects, so their OSS product dies, too. Someone else has to take up the banner, and that doesn't always happen. Look at all the donationware that disappears because freeloaders never helped defray the costs. Open source is not some magic bullet against malicious content. Other than TrueCrypt, when was the last time you heard of an *independent* technically capable research group doing code analysis on any of the OSS products you use? When did Corbian ever get audited? Just because it's open doesn't mean anyone outside the dev team ever looks inside. That it can be audited doesn't mean it ever is. Just so you don't think I'm some fanboy for SyncBack, there is also FreeFileSync. I found it more clumsy to use. I just felt always uncomfortable with it, and never quite sure if it was going to do what I wanted or thought it to do. SyncBack will let you run a simulated run, so you can see what would happen. I like saving money, too, but am not averse to paying for something I can get working right. FreeFileSync says it supports VSS, File Versioning, and RealTimeSync (to catch files/folders as they change) which are all features in the payware edition of SyncBackSE (not in its freeware edition). You could roll your own solution around FreeFileSync. Same for robocopy, but it does not support VSS, so you'll need to use batch commands to create a shadow copy, use robocopy, and discard the shadow copy. FreeFileSync's manual is only online, and no way to search through it, so I couldn't tell if it supports .zip or whatever archive format to compress the backup files at the destination folder. Nothing in their release history (https://freefilesync.org/archive.php) mentions saving to .zip files. However, since it has a CLI (command-line interface), you could use a batch file to run FreeFileSync and follow with a zip archiver tool to compress those backup copies. If you use robocopy, make damn sure to severely lower its retry count on failure. The default is one million retries (with a default retry interval of 5 seconds) which robocopy will wait over a hundred years trying to read or copy a file that always fails. With your criteria, and I'm presuming "free" was omitted but is a criteria, looks like you'll have to roll your own. Software used by a business should be paid by the business, not you. If Cobian is failing their expectation, they really cannot afford $40 to $55 for payware to safeguard their data? If they don't care to pay, why are they even considering deploying any backup strategy? Something fishy here. |
#37
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Frank Slootweg wrote:
For Gmail, you can get around this problem by using an App Password instead of OAuth2. I just found: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/185833?hl=en If T thinks OAUTH2 improves on security and privacy, that is NOT what it does. He should watch the Vimeo video by Hammer where he's disgusted with what became of his offspring. |
#38
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T wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote: T wrote: Yes, you can disable it on gMail and Yahoo, but the ass holes keep sending out robo eMail telling the user to "Turn off untrusted apps" and it "scares" the users, so they eventually turn it off, despite what I say, and it breaks those clients not using AOuth2. For Gmail, you can get around this problem by using an App Password instead of OAuth2. Yes exactly, until the customer gets one too many turn off less secure apps and then it comes down around your ears. They lose their tape reports, but WHEN DO THEY EVER CHECK THEM ANYWAY! If they are using an app password, why would there be such e-mails? The app password takes the place of the OAUTH2 token. While OAUTH2 tokens expire and have to get regenerated, app passwords do not. Have you really ever seen these Gmail alert e-mails about the client being insecure? Or is it something you read about in old online articles? Are you maybe confusing their ¡Suspicious sign in prevented¢ email or conflating it with the 'insecure app' e-mail? There are other alert alert message, so I used the following server-side rule in my Gmail account: Matches: from"New sign-in from" OR "Security Alert") Do this: Mark as read, Delete it I could probably delete the subject conditional and just test on the from header. That sender is always for those robo alerts. Those are when Google thinks someone else logged into their Gmail account. That's tied into some fingerprinting of your host to see when some other host tries to gain access. When I travel and use my netbook, a friends laptop, or the resort's computers, yep, I get those. Everytime I configure another e-mail client to connect to my Gmail account, I get a security alert e-mail. There's no user-configurable option in the account to unsubscribe from these alerts. The only way to unsubscribe is to filter out. You sure these customers that you paint as morons are falling for phish e-mails? Might be time to have these low-brows go into their Gmail account and check on activity to ensure it's their own. |
#39
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VanguardLH wrote:
If T thinks OAUTH2 improves on security and privacy, that is NOT what it does. He should watch the Vimeo video by Hammer where he's disgusted with what became of his offspring. Linky? searching vimeo for "oauth2 hammer" turns up no needles, searching for just "oauth2" or just "hammer" turns up too many haystacks. |
#40
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T wrote:
On 6/27/19 1:14 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote: If I were you, I would just continue to use Cobian Backup till it breaks. (I sure will do so for our systems.) That is what I am doing. The OAuth2 problem is starting to become a pain in the ass. As I described in my other response, there is no such thing as "The OAuth2 problem", at least not for Gmail. I will respond to your response in that subthread. See also VanguardLH's response on the same issue. As to your requirements: 1) open source Should be irrelevant. Most other software your customer and you use isn't open source either. (N.B. I've been doing Unix/UNIX/unix since nearly four decades, but I'm no open source zealot (nor a free software one).) It is not. Open Source keeps old version around for you if you need them. Paid softwaree only keep a certain amount around and want you to upgrade. So you pay them and upgrade, and guess what, your old version is too old and you lost everything. But, wait for a fee, you can send it to them and they will recover it for you. It is a scam. Commercial backups are a lock in to use their services. Not funny when disaster strikes. Open source also typically is driven by need, not by what locks you into paying for services. The opposite of open source is closed source, not paid software. That closed source *may* be paid software, but it can also be freeware (such as Cobian Backup). (And then there is the case of paid open source software.) In any case, the whole point is moot, because 1) you are free to keep using old copies and 2) your *own* requirement is 2) have plain backups able to be read by any reader so there *cannot* be a case of "you lost everything". 3) eMail reports OAuth2 would be a plus Gmail alternative solution described in my other response. True. But you are not walking in my shoes. It does not matter what I tell the custom, when they get those constant eMailing to turn off less secure apps, the eventually do. False. See my response in the other subthread. Now, that means they don't get their eMail reports. BUT SINCE WHEN DO THEY READ THEM ANYWAY. I have to Cc myself on everything and check them for them. 2) and 4) are of course covered by Cobian Backup. BTW, is the backup device always on/connected? If so, then why don't you just use File History and be done with it? It wouldn't have 3) and 4), but there would be no need for those. You are thinking of a fully functioning machine. Think hard drive as paper weight. Just answer the question please. I assume you have the common sense to backup to *another* disk (than the main/normal/whatever disk). Even if that backup disk is in the same computer (not so smart), it won't be a "paper weight" if the computer or/and main disk goes down. |
#41
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T wrote:
On 6/27/19 1:14 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote: T wrote: [...] "OAuth2 (gmail, yahoo)". Yes, you can disable it on gMail and Yahoo, but the ass holes keep sending out robo eMail telling the user to "Turn off untrusted apps" and it "scares" the users, so they eventually turn it off, despite what I say, and it breaks those clients not using AOuth2. For Gmail, you can get around this problem by using an App Password instead of OAuth2. For how to do this, see Ralph Fox' 09SEP2018 post "Google screwed up my Gmail acct in Thunderbird" in alt.windows7.general: or Message-ID: or http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3C0ud8pd5m6ler41kl %3E or Get a *real* newsreader! :-) Ralph's post talks about POP (which I needed), but it's also applicable to SMTP (which you need). FWIW, I've no such problems with Yahoo, but I only POP from them, i.e. no SMTP. N.B. Thanks Ralph! Yes exactly, until the customer gets one too many turn off less secure apps and then it comes down around your ears. They lose their tape reports, but WHEN DO THEY EVER CHECK THEM ANYWAY! False. There won't be any "turn off less secure apps" messages, because Gmail/Google considers App Passwords as secure as OAuth2. Ralph's post clearly says: RF An app password gives you two advantages RF 1. You can turn off "allow less secure apps"; So don't reject advice before even reading it, let alone trying it. |
#42
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On 6/28/19 6:14 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
T wrote: On 6/27/19 1:14 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote: If I were you, I would just continue to use Cobian Backup till it breaks. (I sure will do so for our systems.) That is what I am doing. The OAuth2 problem is starting to become a pain in the ass. As I described in my other response, there is no such thing as "The OAuth2 problem", at least not for Gmail. I will respond to your response in that subthread. See also VanguardLH's response on the same issue. As to your requirements: 1) open source Should be irrelevant. Most other software your customer and you use isn't open source either. (N.B. I've been doing Unix/UNIX/unix since nearly four decades, but I'm no open source zealot (nor a free software one).) It is not. Open Source keeps old version around for you if you need them. Paid softwaree only keep a certain amount around and want you to upgrade. So you pay them and upgrade, and guess what, your old version is too old and you lost everything. But, wait for a fee, you can send it to them and they will recover it for you. It is a scam. Commercial backups are a lock in to use their services. Not funny when disaster strikes. Open source also typically is driven by need, not by what locks you into paying for services. The opposite of open source is closed source, not paid software. That closed source *may* be paid software, but it can also be freeware (such as Cobian Backup). (And then there is the case of paid open source software.) In any case, the whole point is moot, because 1) you are free to keep using old copies and 2) your *own* requirement is 2) have plain backups able to be read by any reader so there *cannot* be a case of "you lost everything". 3) eMail reports OAuth2 would be a plus Gmail alternative solution described in my other response. True. But you are not walking in my shoes. It does not matter what I tell the custom, when they get those constant eMailing to turn off less secure apps, the eventually do. False. See my response in the other subthread. Now, that means they don't get their eMail reports. BUT SINCE WHEN DO THEY READ THEM ANYWAY. I have to Cc myself on everything and check them for them. 2) and 4) are of course covered by Cobian Backup. BTW, is the backup device always on/connected? If so, then why don't you just use File History and be done with it? It wouldn't have 3) and 4), but there would be no need for those. You are thinking of a fully functioning machine. Think hard drive as paper weight. Just answer the question please. I assume you have the common sense to backup to *another* disk (than the main/normal/whatever disk). Even if that backup disk is in the same computer (not so smart), it won't be a "paper weight" if the computer or/and main disk goes down. Frank, I am not sure here we stand on this. I do believe this was answered on other conversations. And yes, I am not stupid enough not to use separate media. -T |
#43
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On 6/27/19 7:15 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote: T wrote: VanguardLH wrote: Aren't [you] the one still using the 8-year unsupported Cobian backup software? Yup.Â* And I am looking for an alternative again.Â* Must be 1) open source 2) have plain backups able to be read by any reader 3) eMail reports OAuth2 would be a plus 4) pre and post events. 5) support Volume Shadow copy. So, let's see what I can do with non-OSS software that you are spending more time trying to figure out than deploy and would've had running a long time ago for your customers ... _ SyncbackFree _ - It is oriented to file backups which is what you want. No image backups. - Can do mirroring or one-way backups. - Compress the backups into a .zip file. o Each file can be saved in its own .zip file. o Or you can have all files in the sync job stored in the same .zip file. o Free version only uses PKZIP passwording (weak), not AES256, but this was not part of your criteria. - Set priority level separately for when you run it versus when the job runs when scheduled. o I run at normal priority for when I manually start it. I want it to start now and end soon. o I run at lower priority for when it is scheduled to run because other programs might be running then, and I'm not sitting at the computer waiting for the job to complete, so it can take longer. - Stop Windows from going into sleep mode while a job runs. - Supports FTP (and obviously mapped drives). Stay away from non-enterprise cloud setups, in your case. - Looks to support shares. - Supports NAS. - Works with Task Scheduler. Once you schedule a backup, you can go into Task Scheduler to tweak the scheduled event even further. There are more options in a Task Scheduler event than most programs ever take advantage of. - Uses a neat trick to detect ransomware corruption: you put a bait file in a common location that ransomware attacks, like the My Documents folder. If SyncBack cannot find or read the folder, it pre-aborts the sync/backup, so you aren't saving corrupted files atop your old backups. You want your untouched backup copies to restore from. - No cloud storage support, but you don't want that, anyway. - Supports OAUTH2 to send e-mails for job status. - No licensing limit. Install on however many hosts you want (payware version has 5 devices for home and 1 device for work limits). - Runs on Windows Vista, 7, 8, and 10. - Uses a hashing compare method to determine if the same-named same-pathed file has changed between source and destination folders. Better but slower than relying on the timestamp or checking file sizes. I'm sure they first check the timestamp and, if the same, compare the hashes. - Sync/Backup jobs grouped together can be ran concurrently or sequentially. Sequentially eliminates any conflicts on file access and doesn't flood as much the data bus, drives, or network. - File integrity checking, but makes the job take longer. - The free version doesn't have VSS, so, for example, it won't copy any inuse or locked files which could include the e-mail client's local database (e.g., .pst file for Outlook). However, they should already be off POP3 and have moved to IMAP4, and the IMAP server constitutes their backup. If they reinstall their IMAP client after a new OS install or change to a different one, all their e-mails are still sitting on the IMAP server to sync to the new IMAP client. If any of your customers are running SQL[ite] databases, none of the free or cheap programs are going to correctly back those up. You need backup software designed to quiesce the dabatase after merging any pending record changes. A purge of delete-flagged records would make the DB file smaller to reduce bandwidth and copy time for backing up the DB file. - Does not support VSS. But with the pre-command that runs before the sync/backup job, you can create your own shadow copy. Can't tell if their freeware version support pre- and post-commands (to run before and after a sync/backup). Not sure even after reading their help. Mentions SyncBackLite in their help for the pre- and post-command feature. SyncBackLite wasn't free (think it cost ~$20). They dropped that edition, so now you can get Free, SE, or Pro editions. Even it not included, once you schedule a sync/backup job, it uses Task Scheduler. So you could copy the command it runs and replace the event's command line with your own batch file to run the pre- and post commands around their command you paste into the batch file. I use Macrium Reflect Home which also uses Task Scheduler (no need to waste memory and CPU cycles on another program scheduler), and I even use that scheme to modify the batch file it creates for a backup job. If the Free edition doesn't have pre- and post-commands to enhance SyncBack, like creating shadow copies, you might just forego SyncBack and use robocopy already bundled in Windows. robocopy doesn't support VSS, either, but there are plenty of online articles guiding you through the process to create a shadow copy and then use robocopy to save copies of the files within. https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/adi...-command-line/ _SyncBackSE (in addition to the features in SyncBackFree)_ - Add incremental/delta and differential backups which are obviously a lot faster than full backups each time. - Supports VSS. Not enabled by default when you define a job (aka profile). When configuring the job, you turn it on. If you won't be copying any inuse/locked files, it just a wasted overhead. - In addition to the Windows platforms, runs on macOS, Android, and Linux. o You're posting in a Windows 10 newsgroup. No idea if your "customers" use other OS platforms. - Sends e-mail logs via SSL/TLS (in addition to job status). o Don't use Gmail's SMTP server if Google doesn't like Syncback as the MUA, or: * Disable the "insecure" option in Gmail. * The SMTP server used by SyncBack does NOT have to be the same e-mail provider as to whom the logs get sent. Whatever e-mail clients your customers are using now will work just fine to get the e-mails from SyncBack. Only if SyncBack itself has a problem with Gmail means disabling the "insecure option" or just go to a different free e-mail provider. There are lots of them. o As noted for the free version, OAUTH2 is supported. I'd still disable the "insecure" option in Gmail, though. o Compress the e-mailed logs to reduce impact on recipient's disk quotas and reduce transport time. - Monitor the profiles (jobs or groups of them) using an app on an Android phone. No need to want for e-mailing of logs. - Stronger AES256 encryption of .zip archives. - SecureZip: not only are the files encrypted in the .zip file but so are their filenames and folders. An intruder can't read the files but the file hierarchy could reveal information. - If you use NTFS file encryption, you have the option to backup/sync those files in non-encrypted format. No worries about assigned a secondary agent in case a user forgets the Windows login credentials. - Job resumes after a lost connection (just errors in the free version). - Real-time backup/sync when files or folders change. Instead of getting snapshots of files at the granularity of of the scheduled backup/sync jobs, you can immediately capture changed files. - Job auto-starts upon insertion of device (e.g., USB drive). o When the user inserts, say, a USB drive used for data-only backups, a profile (job) will auto-start; i.e., you put the backup media into a USB port and the job starts without you having to start it or wait for a scheduled job to start. - File Versioning. o I want this one and may upgrade to get it. o I've tried File History in Windows 10. Sucks. * Forces backup of "special" folders (Documents, Pics, Music, Video, etc) even if you don't want to include those (because your saving them using something else). * Misses some files. In my tests, when I finally got it working, it still missed a file. Doesn't sound bad unless that's the critical file that changed for which you need an old copy. o SyncBack's File Versioning replaces Windows' File History. o Renames the saved files using datestamping in their filename. Easy to discern which day a file was copied. o File History uses a tree hierarchy that's tough to figure out (but I did and without documentation). - Allows regex which can better define just what files are to be included in a sync job. - You can list programs that must be closed (requested to terminate) before a job begins; e.g., getting Outlook to exit, so its .pst file can get backed up. If locked/inuse files are due to programs having them open at the time of a sync job, this tries to close them. Sorry, but I do not believe a *company* cannot afford in their operating costs the $40 for SyncBackSE or $55 for SyncbackPro or other payware to protect their business. Unless these businesses are out in the field harvesting crops by hand, losing data means losing their business. If they're that cheap, they are NOT a business, and instead you're supporting a bunch of independent home users (and even those users manage to afford those prices if they really care about their data). Also, seems this much of your criteria is just YOUR criteria, not that of your customers'. Plus, your criteria never dictated the solution had to be free. If I can afford $40 for my personal use of SyncbackSE (in addition to backup payware) then your /*business*/ customers that are paying you for tech support can also afford it. Back 20-30 years ago, anyone saying they couldn't afford business cards or a separate phone line just for business was NOT running a real business. They were tinkering. There's something *fishy* about companies that cannot afford even personal-use priced backup software. There are costs to running a business. Products don't self-destruct when support for them ends. This isn't Mission Impossible. The products do not expire. Support expires. You can continue to use them indefinitely, just like you have with Cobian. SyncBack is foremost a mirroring or synchronization tool, and that's how I've used it. To make into a backup program where several old copies of files are retained, I'd have to do that in a post-command defined for the job. However, the File Versionig feature in the $40 SE edition would replace Windows' File History with something that works and provides a decent backup solution. As for OSS staying around forever, you know that's not true. Someone has to host the product and its files on their dime. People die, get disinterested, move, move on to new projects, so their OSS product dies, too. Someone else has to take up the banner, and that doesn't always happen. Look at all the donationware that disappears because freeloaders never helped defray the costs. Open source is not some magic bullet against malicious content. Other than TrueCrypt, when was the last time you heard of an *independent* technically capable research group doing code analysis on any of the OSS products you use? When did Corbian ever get audited? Just because it's open doesn't mean anyone outside the dev team ever looks inside. That it can be audited doesn't mean it ever is. Just so you don't think I'm some fanboy for SyncBack, there is also FreeFileSync. I found it more clumsy to use. I just felt always uncomfortable with it, and never quite sure if it was going to do what I wanted or thought it to do. SyncBack will let you run a simulated run, so you can see what would happen. I like saving money, too, but am not averse to paying for something I can get working right. FreeFileSync says it supports VSS, File Versioning, and RealTimeSync (to catch files/folders as they change) which are all features in the payware edition of SyncBackSE (not in its freeware edition). You could roll your own solution around FreeFileSync. Same for robocopy, but it does not support VSS, so you'll need to use batch commands to create a shadow copy, use robocopy, and discard the shadow copy. FreeFileSync's manual is only online, and no way to search through it, so I couldn't tell if it supports .zip or whatever archive format to compress the backup files at the destination folder. Nothing in their release history (https://freefilesync.org/archive.php) mentions saving to .zip files. However, since it has a CLI (command-line interface), you could use a batch file to run FreeFileSync and follow with a zip archiver tool to compress those backup copies. If you use robocopy, make damn sure to severely lower its retry count on failure. The default is one million retries (with a default retry interval of 5 seconds) which robocopy will wait over a hundred years trying to read or copy a file that always fails. With your criteria, and I'm presuming "free" was omitted but is a criteria, looks like you'll have to roll your own. Software used by a business should be paid by the business, not you. If Cobian is failing their expectation, they really cannot afford $40 to $55 for payware to safeguard their data? If they don't care to pay, why are they even considering deploying any backup strategy? Something fishy here. Thank you! That was a LOT of work. I will tag this and read over it very slowly. -T |
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On 6/27/19 7:31 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote: Frank Slootweg wrote: T wrote: Yes, you can disable it on gMail and Yahoo, but the ass holes keep sending out robo eMail telling the user to "Turn off untrusted apps" and it "scares" the users, so they eventually turn it off, despite what I say, and it breaks those clients not using AOuth2. For Gmail, you can get around this problem by using an App Password instead of OAuth2. Yes exactly, until the customer gets one too many turn off less secure apps and then it comes down around your ears. They lose their tape reports, but WHEN DO THEY EVER CHECK THEM ANYWAY! If they are using an app password, why would there be such e-mails? The app password takes the place of the OAUTH2 token. While OAUTH2 tokens expire and have to get regenerated, app passwords do not. Have you really ever seen these Gmail alert e-mails about the client being insecure? Or is it something you read about in old online articles? Are you maybe confusing their ‘Suspicious sign in prevented’ email or conflating it with the 'insecure app' e-mail? There are other alert alert message, so I used the following server-side rule in my Gmail account: Matches: from"New sign-in from" OR "Security Alert") Do this: Mark as read, Delete it I can't control what platform they use to read their eMail. Often times I set them up to whatever platform they want, then find them months later on some tother platform. A lot of ties I don't ever have any idea that they have started reading the gMail on their phones. They just automatically delete teir eMail reports as if it was spam. Seems to me thye need to stick their hands in the fire a few times ... I could probably delete the subject conditional and just test on the from header. That sender is always for those robo alerts. Those are when Google thinks someone else logged into their Gmail account. That's tied into some fingerprinting of your host to see when some other host tries to gain access. When I travel and use my netbook, a friends laptop, or the resort's computers, yep, I get those. Everytime I configure another e-mail client to connect to my Gmail account, I get a security alert e-mail. There's no user-configurable option in the account to unsubscribe from these alerts. The only way to unsubscribe is to filter out. You sure these customers that you paint as morons are falling for phish e-mails? Might be time to have these low-brows go into their Gmail account and check on activity to ensure it's their own. You know, it just occurred to me that I should create a new gMail account to send out backup reports. If the customer does not have access to the account, or easy access the can play with, they won't see the less secure apps s. And, since the app won't physically move about ... Speaking of eMail reports, I have to do four go to assists today to check on why eMail reports have stopped. None where reported to me by the users. Only one wrote back to me when I asked. You see, unless they are expecting something from me, my eMail is just marketing spam to them and they delete my eMail without even reading it. |
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On 6/28/19 6:29 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
T wrote: On 6/27/19 1:14 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote: T wrote: [...] "OAuth2 (gmail, yahoo)". Yes, you can disable it on gMail and Yahoo, but the ass holes keep sending out robo eMail telling the user to "Turn off untrusted apps" and it "scares" the users, so they eventually turn it off, despite what I say, and it breaks those clients not using AOuth2. For Gmail, you can get around this problem by using an App Password instead of OAuth2. For how to do this, see Ralph Fox' 09SEP2018 post "Google screwed up my Gmail acct in Thunderbird" in alt.windows7.general: or Message-ID: or http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3C0ud8pd5m6ler41kl %3E or Get a *real* newsreader! :-) Ralph's post talks about POP (which I needed), but it's also applicable to SMTP (which you need). FWIW, I've no such problems with Yahoo, but I only POP from them, i.e. no SMTP. N.B. Thanks Ralph! Yes exactly, until the customer gets one too many turn off less secure apps and then it comes down around your ears. They lose their tape reports, but WHEN DO THEY EVER CHECK THEM ANYWAY! False. There won't be any "turn off less secure apps" messages, because Gmail/Google considers App Passwords as secure as OAuth2. You sure about that? Hmmmmmm .... Maybe they are getting this on their eMail reader because another "less sure app" is accessing their SMTP server. It is best not to make blanket statements, like "WRONG" or "False". It is rude and does not make you any friends. This is not a fight between us. Don't turn it into one. Ralph's post clearly says: RF An app password gives you two advantages RF 1. You can turn off "allow less secure apps"; So don't reject advice before even reading it, let alone trying it. And you somehow thought I was not turning "less secure apps on"? That is part of the routine. Then I have to go back and do it several more times as the user turns it back off. Maybe you are not reading or not following? This is about using OAuth2 so as not to have to hassle with the user turn the stinker back off. |
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