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#1
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1903 and keyboards
I have two computers. One a fairly recent machine I call Corsair based
on an Asus X00-AII with an i7-6800K CPU and the other being a nearly 10 year old Dell XPS something or other an i2-2600. Both are running Windows 10 Pro with the 1903 update. Both are equipped with Logitech USB keyboard and mouse, although not the same model. The DEll has very recently experienced a change of keyboard and mouse. Since the update both machines have experienced keyboard problems but Corsair has recently lost its mouse unti after a repair install and a reboot. The problem with Dell is that it does not respond to text entry until some time after the machine has started. This makes password entry (and hence logging on) difficult. At first you can type anything you like and get absolutely no response. After two or three minutes you will get a response but the first two or three characters are missing and I have to start again. I have to watch the screen like a hawk to ensure that the machine responds to each keystroke. After some time the machine appears to respond normally. I have not encountered this problem if I boot in safe mode. This seems to suggest that with a normal boot one or more of the lesser services are tripping over something and preventing Dell from detecting the keystrokes. However whatever it is does not seem to interfere with the screen cursor's response to the mouse. I could go through deleting one service at a time and then trying rebooting to see if that solves the problem. Howevere I have only a few more years to live and I would be grateful for any suggestions that might speed up the testing process. The other problem manifests itself mainly on Corsair although Dell occasionally suffers from it also. What happens is that I will be happily typing away and I will suddenly realise that without any warning characters have stopped appearing on the screen in response. All I have to do is select the starting point with the cursor, left-click, and start typing. All that makes me think that the two types of problems might be connected is that the both started after 1903, both involve keyboards and mice, both keyboards and mouse are of the same make (although not the same model) and there could be a common factor which has arrived with 1903. Regards, Eric Stevens |
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#2
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1903 and keyboards
On Tue, 09 Jul 2019 17:04:19 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote: I have two computers. One a fairly recent machine I call Corsair based on an Asus X00-AII with an i7-6800K CPU and the other being a nearly 10 year old Dell XPS something or other an i2-2600. Both are running Windows 10 Pro with the 1903 update. Both are equipped with Logitech USB keyboard and mouse, although not the same model. The DEll has very recently experienced a change of keyboard and mouse. Since the update both machines have experienced keyboard problems but Corsair has recently lost its mouse unti after a repair install and a reboot. The problem with Dell is that it does not respond to text entry until some time after the machine has started. This makes password entry (and hence logging on) difficult. At first you can type anything you like and get absolutely no response. After two or three minutes you will get a response but the first two or three characters are missing and I have to start again. I have to watch the screen like a hawk to ensure that the machine responds to each keystroke. After some time the machine appears to respond normally. I have not encountered this problem if I boot in safe mode. This seems to suggest that with a normal boot one or more of the lesser services are tripping over something and preventing Dell from detecting the keystrokes. However whatever it is does not seem to interfere with the screen cursor's response to the mouse. I could go through deleting one service at a time and then trying rebooting to see if that solves the problem. Howevere I have only a few more years to live and I would be grateful for any suggestions that might speed up the testing process. The other problem manifests itself mainly on Corsair although Dell occasionally suffers from it also. What happens is that I will be happily typing away and I will suddenly realise that without any warning characters have stopped appearing on the screen in response. All I have to do is select the starting point with the cursor, left-click, and start typing. All that makes me think that the two types of problems might be connected is that the both started after 1903, both involve keyboards and mice, both keyboards and mouse are of the same make (although not the same model) and there could be a common factor which has arrived with 1903. Regards, Eric Stevens I would try defaulting to the US keyboard & language settings because this worked for me after weird symbols appeared when typing. |
#3
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1903 and keyboards
Eric Stevens wrote:
I have two computers. One a fairly recent machine I call Corsair based on an Asus X00-AII with an i7-6800K CPU and the other being a nearly 10 year old Dell XPS something or other an i2-2600. There's an Intel CPU family called "i2"? I remember i3, i5, and i7, but not an i2. Are you calling the Core 2 [Duo] family as i2? Both are running Windows 10 Pro with the 1903 update. Both are equipped with Logitech USB keyboard and mouse, although not the same model. The DEll has very recently experienced a change of keyboard and mouse. Did you leave the PCs configured to use the embedded/default drivers for the keyboards, or did you install the Logitech software for them? I remember back on my older PC (running Win7) that Logitech had two different driver packages for their mice. The later one was called Setpoint (don't remember the earlier one's name). Setpoint caused problems with the older hardware, so I had to go back to the older driver package (Mouseware perhaps?). As I recall, I got rid of Setpoint on one PC and Mouseware(?) on the other PC because I didn't need any extra features (I don't get mice with more than 3 buttons, so no need for macro software to define the actions of them or others), and just used the default or embedded mouse driver in Windows. Since the update both machines have experienced keyboard problems but Corsair has recently lost its mouse unti after a repair install and a reboot. You never identified the models of the keyboard an mouse? Are they corded? Cordless? Use RF or Bluetooth? Use a unifying USB receiver to handle both, or separate USB dongles for each device? If cordless, have you tried replacing the batteries? While the problem showed up after the 1903 OS update, it's possible the batteries were getting weak just before the update and now they're too weak after the update. The problem with Dell is that it does not respond to text entry until some time after the machine has started. This makes password entry (and hence logging on) difficult. At first you can type anything you like and get absolutely no response. After two or three minutes you will get a response but the first two or three characters are missing and I have to start again. I have to watch the screen like a hawk to ensure that the machine responds to each keystroke. After some time the machine appears to respond normally. I have not encountered this problem if I boot in safe mode. This seems to suggest that with a normal boot one or more of the lesser services are tripping over something and preventing Dell from detecting the keystrokes. However whatever it is does not seem to interfere with the screen cursor's response to the mouse. I could go through deleting one service at a time and then trying rebooting to see if that solves the problem. Howevere I have only a few more years to live and I would be grateful for any suggestions that might speed up the testing process. Despite your witicism, it won't take but a week of evenings to do that isolation. The other problem manifests itself mainly on Corsair although Dell occasionally suffers from it also. What happens is that I will be happily typing away and I will suddenly realise that without any warning characters have stopped appearing on the screen in response. All I have to do is select the starting point with the cursor, left-click, and start typing. Are these RF or Bluetooth cordless keyboards and mice? Both work on the 2.4GHz frequency, but so do cordless phones, microwave ovens, and several other devices than cause interference. Bluetooth is more susceptible. Do these cordless devices have a reset or other means of changing which channel they use? All that makes me think that the two types of problems might be connected is that the both started after 1903, both involve keyboards and mice, both keyboards and mouse are of the same make (although not the same model) and there could be a common factor which has arrived with 1903. Dell packs a lot of bloatware into their software suite. I'm assuming you bought this as a pre-built PC and didn't build it yourself. Even then you have to be careful of what Dell-supplied drivers you install because they could be packages of multiple component support. As I recall, Dell had its own keyboard driver which was to add more functionality, like define what the Fn+key combos did. You could work from either end: disable all startup programs and non-Microsoft services, like safe boot, and then add them back one at a time. Some folks think a binary approach is faster where you enable half at a time and then either cut it in half if the problem returns or add half of the next bunch if the problem didn't appear in the first half bunch. Problem with that is the problem could be a compounding of conflicts between startup programs/services. You'll want to know which one you load that causes the problem and then determine if you want to keep it or determine with what other startup program/service it causes problems. You could work from the other end where you first target whatever startup programs/services seem related to keyboard functionality (if you can tell what each program/service does), and disable those to see if the problem goes away. Then you don't have to bother focusing or testing on the non-keyboard programs/services. You might get a hint at what to first target by looking in Device Manager to see what is used as the software/driver interface for the keyboard device(s). |
#4
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1903 and keyboards
On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 04:25:08 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote: I have two computers. One a fairly recent machine I call Corsair based on an Asus X00-AII with an i7-6800K CPU and the other being a nearly 10 year old Dell XPS something or other an i2-2600. There's an Intel CPU family called "i2"? I remember i3, i5, and i7, but not an i2. Are you calling the Core 2 [Duo] family as i2? Sorry. An i7-2600. Both are running Windows 10 Pro with the 1903 update. Both are equipped with Logitech USB keyboard and mouse, although not the same model. The DEll has very recently experienced a change of keyboard and mouse. Did you leave the PCs configured to use the embedded/default drivers for the keyboards, or did you install the Logitech software for them? They are probably on whatever drivrs Driver Detective fished out for them Your point is a good one. I shall try it. I remember back on my older PC (running Win7) that Logitech had two different driver packages for their mice. The later one was called Setpoint (don't remember the earlier one's name). Setpoint caused problems with the older hardware, so I had to go back to the older driver package (Mouseware perhaps?). As I recall, I got rid of Setpoint on one PC and Mouseware(?) on the other PC because I didn't need any extra features (I don't get mice with more than 3 buttons, so no need for macro software to define the actions of them or others), and just used the default or embedded mouse driver in Windows. Since the update both machines have experienced keyboard problems but Corsair has recently lost its mouse unti after a repair install and a reboot. You never identified the models of the keyboard an mouse? Are they corded? Cordless? Use RF or Bluetooth? Use a unifying USB receiver to handle both, or separate USB dongles for each device? Uniied corded. If I have identified the model correctly Corsair has a K520R and Dell has just been fitted with a MK270R. If cordless, have you tried replacing the batteries? Brand new batteries in all. While the problem showed up after the 1903 OS update, it's possible the batteries were getting weak just before the update and now they're too weak after the update. I thought that was a problem with the Dell when I found the battery in the mouse had ruptured and oozed inside he mouse. Cleaning it didn't restore proper functioning and didn't cure the original propblem. Hence the new mouse and keyboard. The problem with Dell is that it does not respond to text entry until some time after the machine has started. This makes password entry (and hence logging on) difficult. At first you can type anything you like and get absolutely no response. After two or three minutes you will get a response but the first two or three characters are missing and I have to start again. I have to watch the screen like a hawk to ensure that the machine responds to each keystroke. After some time the machine appears to respond normally. I have not encountered this problem if I boot in safe mode. This seems to suggest that with a normal boot one or more of the lesser services are tripping over something and preventing Dell from detecting the keystrokes. However whatever it is does not seem to interfere with the screen cursor's response to the mouse. I could go through deleting one service at a time and then trying rebooting to see if that solves the problem. Howevere I have only a few more years to live and I would be grateful for any suggestions that might speed up the testing process. Despite your witicism, it won't take but a week of evenings to do that isolation. Oh! The Joy! The other problem manifests itself mainly on Corsair although Dell occasionally suffers from it also. What happens is that I will be happily typing away and I will suddenly realise that without any warning characters have stopped appearing on the screen in response. All I have to do is select the starting point with the cursor, left-click, and start typing. Are these RF or Bluetooth cordless keyboards and mice? Both work on the 2.4GHz frequency, but so do cordless phones, microwave ovens, and several other devices than cause interference. I don't think that installing 1903 would have changed the general interference field. Besides, I have experienced interference in the past but have generally dealt with it succesfully. Bluetooth is more susceptible. Do these cordless devices have a reset or other means of changing which channel they use? Nope. Just a small buttonless dongle. All that makes me think that the two types of problems might be connected is that the both started after 1903, both involve keyboards and mice, both keyboards and mouse are of the same make (although not the same model) and there could be a common factor which has arrived with 1903. Dell packs a lot of bloatware into their software suite. I'm assuming you bought this as a pre-built PC and didn't build it yourself. Even then you have to be careful of what Dell-supplied drivers you install because they could be packages of multiple component support. As I recall, Dell had its own keyboard driver which was to add more functionality, like define what the Fn+key combos did. It had a clean install about 18 months ago but I expect it still salvaged settings, but not the bloatware. You could work from either end: disable all startup programs and non-Microsoft services, like safe boot, and then add them back one at a time. Some folks think a binary approach is faster where you enable half at a time and then either cut it in half if the problem returns or add half of the next bunch if the problem didn't appear in the first half bunch. Problem with that is the problem could be a compounding of conflicts between startup programs/services. You'll want to know which one you load that causes the problem and then determine if you want to keep it or determine with what other startup program/service it causes problems. You could work from the other end where you first target whatever startup programs/services seem related to keyboard functionality (if you can tell what each program/service does), and disable those to see if the problem goes away. Then you don't have to bother focusing or testing on the non-keyboard programs/services. You might get a hint at what to first target by looking in Device Manager to see what is used as the software/driver interface for the keyboard device(s). Do you think people really can tell exactly what role the various startup programs/services play in the swamp that is Windows 10? In any case I will sort out the driver situation. Tomorrow. |
#5
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1903 and keyboards
Eric Stevens wrote:
They are probably on whatever drivrs Driver Detective fished out for them Your point is a good one. I shall try it. Don't know from where you are getting drivers with that software. Also, not having the latest driver is not some serious flaw in configuration. Sometimes older drivers work better than new one. New code = new bugs. Did you configure Win10 to *not* update the hardware drivers? You could roll back to the prior driver version. https://www.windowscentral.com/how-r...ver-windows-10 Uniied corded. If I have identified the model correctly Corsair has a K520R and Dell has just been fitted with a MK270R. Those are wireless mice, not corded. https://www.logitech.com/en-us/produ...ss-combo-mk520 https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/11052?crid=1759 I thought that was a problem with the Dell when I found the battery in the mouse had ruptured and oozed inside he mouse. Every battery I've had leak was made by Duracell. Despite all their advertising, I've found them to be the most destructive (other than those really crappy cheapies that come with the hardware). Do you think people really can tell exactly what role the various startup programs/services play in the swamp that is Windows 10? Yep, they can. Looking at the path for the executable can indicate what it is for. Right-clicking on the file and looking at Properties - Details can sometimes reveal who made the software and what it is for. Sometimes you have to search the web. |
#6
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1903 and keyboards
On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 06:13:21 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote: They are probably on whatever drivrs Driver Detective fished out for them Your point is a good one. I shall try it. Don't know from where you are getting drivers with that software. It seems to get them from original sources as well as whatever Microsoft seems to offer. In many cases its possible choose from a selection. I've used it for several years and have had no reason to be unhappy with it. Also, not having the latest driver is not some serious flaw in configuration. Sometimes older drivers work better than new one. New code = new bugs. Did you configure Win10 to *not* update the hardware drivers? You could roll back to the prior driver version. https://www.windowscentral.com/how-r...ver-windows-10 I didn't think of that at the time. I just made a clean upgrade of Dell. Uniied corded. If I have identified the model correctly Corsair has a K520R and Dell has just been fitted with a MK270R. Those are wireless mice, not corded. I don't know why I wrote 'corded'. I know it was late at night. https://www.logitech.com/en-us/produ...ss-combo-mk520 https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/11052?crid=1759 I thought that was a problem with the Dell when I found the battery in the mouse had ruptured and oozed inside he mouse. Every battery I've had leak was made by Duracell. Despite all their advertising, I've found them to be the most destructive (other than those really crappy cheapies that come with the hardware). This was a 'GP Alkaline' which came with the mouse. Do you think people really can tell exactly what role the various startup programs/services play in the swamp that is Windows 10? Yep, they can. Looking at the path for the executable can indicate what it is for. Right-clicking on the file and looking at Properties - Details can sometimes reveal who made the software and what it is for. Sometimes you have to search the web. Well, I don't have to go to those lengths. Somehow the problem now seems to have gone away. The first thing I did this morning was look for Logitech drivers. All I can say is that their site is horrible. Eventually I found what appeared to possibly be what I wanted and I down loaded Setpoint, Connectivity and Unifying. I ran Unifying, which loaded, popped up and looked at me for about half a second, and then disappeared without any comment. Next was Connectivity. This offered me the chance to re-pair the keyboard with the dongle but confirmed that it was already working correctly. I then ran Setpoint which appeared as though it might be driver. After all this I intended to restart Dell to see if the keyboard problem had improved. However as I was still backing out from layers of Logitech, my screen turned green (my choice) and a familiar "Do not shut down your machine etc" apeared. Next thing I knew I was in about 7 minutes worth of update and restart. And when I went to log in, the machine responded to my typing immediately. While the change could have been due to the Logitech software, I think it is much more likely that it was a bug in the version of 1903 I had downloaded. |
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