Dell 8200 HD problems:

Mark Twain wrote:
I took out the two older ram which were
empty I can't remember what you called
them but single sided and left the 2
double sided for 50% max, but it still
gave me the same coes,. so I need to switch
or try the double sided one by one?

Robert


Yes, you can try the configurations
that are known to work.

Channel0 Channel1
CDIMM empty
RDIMM empty

All I can paint is the conceptual picture.

RAMBUS works as a serial bus. The memory chips
are connected in a long chain. In the above
picture, the Continuity RIMM is basically just
a piece of printed circuit board, and ensures the
end of the chain gets connected to the motherboard.

On a regular computer, just one item could be
plugged in and tested. But on your machine,
two items are needed, to make sure the channel
is connected properly in the full loop. As otherwise,
the read data can't get back to the motherboard.

There are two Intel chipset. For the first one,
the maximum configuration is

Channel0 Channel1
8 chips 8 chips
16 chips 16 chips

And that's because that particular design couldn't
handle some clock or jitter issue if the chain was
too long. A later design could handle 32 chips per
channel and there were no restrictions.

Using the technology available at the time,
that picture would look like this, for a max
of 1.5GB of RAM.

Channel0 Channel1
256MB 256MB
512MB 512MB

The "expert" on this stuff, passed away, and
I'm a poor substitute to fill his shoes.

HTH,
Paul

I tried putting one of the double sided cars
in the first slot where I took the single
sided out because I was trying to put a card
in each channel but same thing.

Maybe I should just buy new RAMM? I mean I couldn;t
get the black screen lit again and this HD has never
been used except to make it into a replacement drive
and it should work since I've already booted it.In
any case we don;t even get it that point.

I just put the old drive back in and now its doing
the same thing whereas before it was looping.

How much would it cost to upgrade all the RAMM to the
MAX for the 8200?

Thanks,
Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
I tried putting one of the double sided cars
in the first slot where I took the single
sided out because I was trying to put a card
in each channel but same thing.

Maybe I should just buy new RAMM? I mean I couldn;t
get the black screen lit again and this HD has never
been used except to make it into a replacement drive
and it should work since I've already booted it.In
any case we don;t even get it that point.

I just put the old drive back in and now its doing
the same thing whereas before it was looping.

How much would it cost to upgrade all the RAMM to the
MAX for the 8200?

Thanks,
Robert

It almost sounds like a motherboard problem. Not a total
motherboard failure, as the BIOS starts up the CPU first
(with no RAM commissioned). And the LED pattern for a
failed CPU did not come on, so the CPU is running. But,
when it tried to start up the RAM, it's having some sort of
problem. And I refuse to believe all the RAM you own is bad.
Which is why you should test the sticks using various
configs, to see if you can get it running.

*******

And the manual actually covers the valid RIMM configs. I
should have looked there first. Only two configurations
are valid. Two sticks or four sticks, and in the two stick
case, the unused slots get CRIMMs.

http://s10.postimg.org/t4s6jvk21/8200_RIMM.gif

How many matched pairs do you have to work with ?

Paul

Paul wrote:
Mark Twain wrote:
I tried putting one of the double sided cars
in the first slot where I took the single sided out because I was
trying to put a card in each channel but same thing.

Maybe I should just buy new RAMM? I mean I couldn;t
get the black screen lit again and this HD has never
been used except to make it into a replacement drive
and it should work since I've already booted it.In
any case we don;t even get it that point.
I just put the old drive back in and now its doing
the same thing whereas before it was looping.
How much would it cost to upgrade all the RAMM to the MAX for the 8200?

Thanks,
Robert

PDF page 9 here, has some info on RAM choices versus chipset/speed.
It makes some reference to 24 devices per channel and 32 devices per
channel. And it's possible the slower setup, takes 32 devices (four
double-sided RIMMs).

ftp://download.intel.com/design/chip...s/29069104.pdf

Paul

I have (1) set of double sided pairs
and (1) set of blanks or what I think
are blanks(single sided).

Robert

I didn't understand much of that at all but
it seems clear that I have to keep the pairs
together and there's only 2 other slots. So its
one or the other.

So given that, should I just reverse how I
had it and see if that works? Or do you
still think its the motherboard and in that
event what should I do? I doubt if I have the
expertise to replace a motherboard.

Buy another 8200 and swap the new PWr supply,
HD, cards etc??

Thoughts/suggestions
Robert

(2) Crimms
(2) Rimms

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
(2) Crimms
(2) Rimms

Robert

So there's really only two ways to install those.
One way would be the recommended way in the manual.

http://s10.postimg.org/t4s6jvk21/8200_RIMM.gif

CRIMM 4 (Four and Two make up one channel)
CRIMM 3 (Three and One make the second channel)

RIMM 2
RIMM 1

The manual page doesn't mention doing it this way,
but you can try this. Especially if it helps reset
the DMI/ESCD.

RIMM 4 (Four and Two make up one channel)
RIMM 3 (Three and One make the second channel)

CRIMM 2
CRIMM 1

*******

If you could find an 8200 in mint condition for
really really cheap, you could just install your
hard drive in it, and pull the hard drive that is
in the shipped product. If you have plugin cards
like a USB2 card, then yes, you'd have to move that
over, with all power removed from the chassis.

And that's the thing with computers these days,
is a wide range of prices. People who price them
like antiques, and others who just want to get
rid of them.

In the case of Dell computers, you have to watch
for the models with leaking caps problem. There
was at least one Optiplex model, with pretty close
to a 100% failure rate due to leaking caps. The 8200 might
be several years before the capacitor plague, so it might
not be one of the dodgy models. But if you saw some
other model, with a faster processor, for cheap, your
"due diligence" would be to see if the model number
in question, appeared in a search with the words
"leaking caps" or "bad caps" included in the search.

Some of the corporate owners of Optiplex computers,
they would have many machines of the same model number,
and so would have a ready supply of statistical data
(failure rate). When the failure rate is that high,
you can't even buy used motherboards (as a way to
repair your own Optiplex), unless the owner claims
the motherboard was "re-capped". If all the caps have
been changed, such a motherboard might give years more
service. So you may notice certain models of Optiplex
seem to be "too available" on Ebay, and these might
be the bad models.

HTH,
Paul

I'll try switching them and see if that
does anything otherwise what are my
options?

To be honest, I was kind of hoping you
knew of some site that sold refurbished
Dell's or lets just say Dell's. I can go
on eBay but other than putting in the
capacitor thing on the searches I really
wouldn't know what else to look for or
to ask?

Robert

I switched the configuration from
what it was before because as you
pointed out there were only 2 choices
available.
Guess what? It worked !!

A pop-up appeared saying it had found
new hardware and so I click ok but it
came back saying it cannot install it
because it cannot find the necessary
software.

Then I got a message saying that its
not properly installed and something
may not function.

So I'm trying to do a Mrimg as I write.
I'll let you know how it goes.

Robert

I couldn't do a Mrimg because again the
8200 isn't recognizing the the external
HD.
So I restarted it, changed the boot sequence
but the screen is frozen in the middle
of the process. What should I do?

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
I couldn't do a Mrimg because again the
8200 isn't recognizing the the external
HD.
So I restarted it, changed the boot sequence
but the screen is frozen in the middle
of the process. What should I do?

Robert

So my theory, and it's just a theory, is that
the BIOS has some sort of problem with DMI/ESCD
BIOS chip segment, and has worn it out. And is
having trouble writing to that part of the BIOS
flash chip. Normally, you would hope the BIOS
would mess around, give up on a failure, and
still let the computer boot. The DMI/ESCD feature
of the BIOS is really "optional" and has nothing
to do with machine function. It's only if the BIOS
becomes fixated on the failure, that problems could arise.

By changing the the stick configuration, between the
only two possible configurations allowed, that gives
the BIOS an excuse to attempt to update DMI/ESCD.

As for the Windows response, there really shouldn't
have been a noticeable response. Windows does keep
track of RAM quantity, and it's a very small factor
in regular Windows activation. Your machine uses SLIC
activation, and should not be dependent on RAM quantity
at all. So even if the RAM was mis-detected, as long
as there is enough RAM present for Windows to start
properly, there shouldn't be a problem.

Since a "new device" was detected, it might have been
relatively important to determine what that device might
be, to figure out what happened. Perhaps an important
BIOS setting changed or something. (I can't think of
anything for an 8200 era machine that should matter,
except perhaps managing to disable all IDE ports or
something.) As it's now frozen, it's going to be harder
to figure out what's up.

If I was in the room right now, I'd be inserting my
Linux LiveCD, and I would be checking whether *any* OS
can boot. As a means to determine whether Windows has
a problem (no longer has a driver for the hard drive),
or it's an actual hardware failure of some sort. Obviously,
to partially boot, some valid RAM must have been
detected.

And to do that, the first issue would be whether the 8200 optical
drive reads DVDs or not, or only accepts CDs. As some of the
Linux distros are rather large. I could find a small distro,
only 208MB, but on the other hand, it had a rather limited
selection of software for debugging. It couldn't read the
SPD on the memory by default. I have a vague idea what module
is missing, but it's not listed in the package manager.
There are lots of rough edges on the distros, so it's not
exactly all user friendly. With a well-curated distro like
Ubuntu, I can be assured the package manager contents are
in good shape, but the graphical interface is poor, relies
on accelerated graphics (programmable shaders or whatever),
and may have other hardware dependencies I can't be absolutely
sure an old computer meets. It's rather hard from here,
to pick something that won't be a waste of your time.

And it would have to be a CD/DVD, as the 8200 is not
likely to boot from USB flash like the 8500 can.

Paul

As it happens I have a Linux CD a friend
made for me awhile back and I loaded it
after I read your comments but nothing.


I would have told you what new hardware
found but it didn't say so.

So do I power off or what? I dont want to
mess up the 8200 futher but how can I unfreeze
it?

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
As it happens I have a Linux CD a friend
made for me awhile back and I loaded it
after I read your comments but nothing.


I would have told you what new hardware
found but it didn't say so.

So do I power off or what? I dont want to
mess up the 8200 futher but how can I unfreeze
it?

Robert

The LiveCD, you insert it in the CD tray, and
it is most useful while the system is booting
just after power-up. If the CD drive is in
the BIOS boot order, before the hard drive,
the CD drive boots instead of the hard drive.
That would be the time to use it, and to expect
it to do something.

If the Linux CD has an "Install" icon, *do not*
click that icon. That could affect hard drive state.

*******

If you have a memtest86+ boot CD, you could run
that on the machine. To verify the memory
is now working OK.

*******

If the machine is frozen at the moment, it's not likely
to go any further. Either power off, or press the reset
button, as you see fit. The journaled NTFS provides
some protection for the content.

Paul

I was able to load the Linux CD I
avoided the install and am doing a
MemTest86 V2.01

Robert