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Vista I will not be buying



 
 
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  #31  
Old August 31st 05, 05:48 PM
Alias
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"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
only law-abiding people will get screwed.


And for some computer users, that will be the only sex they've had in
years


Speaking for yourself?

Alias


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  #34  
Old August 31st 05, 06:25 PM
David Schwartz
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"Leythos" wrote in message
...

While I agree with your view - and don't believe they should be
installing anything that the RIAA wants, since it doesn't impact those
that don't violate the laws (at least as I read it), I don't have any
significant issues with it.


Tell me, how can a computer tell what is fair use and what is not? Are
you for real?

DS


  #35  
Old August 31st 05, 06:27 PM
David Schwartz
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"Leythos" wrote in message
...

In article , aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...


So, this will prevent someone from sharing
some music but I am sure it won't prevent the real thieves from copying
any
more than it prevented them from pirating XP.


I guess I look at it like this - you said "will prevent someone from
"sharing"... won't prevent the real thieves.....


I don't see the difference between someone "sharing" a file against
licensing rules and and pirates that copy entire CD's and sell them to
kids.


I'm sorry that you don't see the difference, but it is perfectly obvious
to the rest of us. The first could easily be a legal example of fair use.
The second is clearly illegal.

If you don't see the difference between legal conduct and illegal
conduct, your opinion that the software will only prevent conduct that is
illegal is quite meaningless, no?

DS


  #36  
Old August 31st 05, 06:33 PM
Alias
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"Leythos" wrote

In article , aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...
The only people who will be inconvenienced are paying customers. The real
pirates that steal for a living will not, as usual, be affected.


tell that to the hundreds of girls in the Sororities that swap songs and
such that don't pay for them.


So what? It was done with cassette tapes and the music industry still made
trillions of dollars. I was copying songs off the radio back with reel to
reel tapes in the early 60s and the music industry didn't go belly up. As
one poster said, one can use the out jack from one's audio card to connect
to a tape recorder and record off the internet radio or a cd. There's a
difference between sharing music and selling music. How come you didn't
address that?

Alias


  #37  
Old August 31st 05, 06:44 PM
Alias
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"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
I guess I look at it like this - you said "will prevent someone from
"sharing"... won't prevent the real thieves.....


I don't see the difference between someone "sharing" a file against
licensing rules and and pirates that copy entire CD's and sell them to
kids.


I'm sorry that you don't see the difference, but it is perfectly
obvious
to the rest of us. The first could easily be a legal example of fair use.
The second is clearly illegal.


Actually, I see the difference, but I disagree that there is a "real"
difference. I don't see any "real" difference between two kids making
copies of CD's and giving the copy to the other and a pirate making a
copy and selling it to anyone. In both cases there was an unpaid for
copy entering the market.

If you don't see the difference between legal conduct and illegal
conduct, your opinion that the software will only prevent conduct that is
illegal is quite meaningless, no?


But I do understand your position, I just don't see it in "degrees" of
being legal or not - making a copy for a friend is just as much illegal
as is selling a copy. If the software blocks it, more power to it, as
long as the software doesn't keep me from playing while doing so
according to the sellers rules. Software won't prevent it, as others
have mentioned, it will just make it harder for the "casual" thief to do
it, which means that less people will become thieves.


Sharer: does it to be nice.

Seller: does it to make money.

You still don't see the difference?

MS still has no business being a copyright cop. That's the business of the
legal system, not a software company. I will be curious to see how Europe
reacts to this and I am hoping that we will have a legal version of Vista,
not the illegal one you love so much.

Last I checked, it is illegal to pass oneself off as a cop and that's what
Vista will be doing. Course, you won't have a problem with that because MS
can do no wrong as far as you're concerned.

Alias


  #38  
Old August 31st 05, 06:49 PM
Alias
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"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article , aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...

"Leythos" wrote

In article , aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...
The only people who will be inconvenienced are paying customers. The
real
pirates that steal for a living will not, as usual, be affected.

tell that to the hundreds of girls in the Sororities that swap songs
and
such that don't pay for them.


So what? It was done with cassette tapes and the music industry still
made
trillions of dollars. I was copying songs off the radio back with reel to
reel tapes in the early 60s and the music industry didn't go belly up. As
one poster said, one can use the out jack from one's audio card to
connect
to a tape recorder and record off the internet radio or a cd. There's a
difference between sharing music and selling music. How come you didn't
address that?


Because it has nothing to do with Vista. Just because you "can do"
something doesn't mean it's legit.


And who is the person who decides what's legit and what isn't, Microsoft?
You? "Legit" is a relative term. I used to live in Venezuela and every
single music cassette was only about US 1.50. The music industry challenged
it and was told that Venezuelans can't afford the high prices the industry
wanted and to go fu*k off. In that society, casual copying is legal, even if
you intend to sell the copies. They have giant, "legit", recording companies
making the copies and selling them in all the stores. Even so, the music
industry is making trillions of dollars every year.

Alias


  #39  
Old August 31st 05, 06:55 PM
MarcusD
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MS is not the only one that's going to have a problem with China. Due to
the fact that we have now taught the Chinese how to build everything for us,
and we have a huge trade imbalance to show for that, not to mention their
already huge and very rapidly growing military strength, and their coziness
with Russia of late, my thoughts are that we should all be more concerned
about our own tails, and not worry so much about microsoft's behind.


"beamish" wrote in message
...
| Hello, Thanks for the information.
| Certain people do not understand the erosion of basic rights. No matter
what
| they state they "just don't get it".
| Microsoft may have future problems but not with file sharing or copying in
| the U.S. or Europe. Their problem will be with China, India and Google.
| take care.
| beamish.
|
| "GregRo" wrote:
|
| I apologize for the rant.
|
| http://snipurl.com/hbl7
|
| I have made my decision
|
| Vista I will not be buying.
|
| No one is not going to tell me. I can't have access to a part of the
| computer or the hard drive. Imagine if a virus, spyware or adaware
| got into that protected area and a virus program could not clean it.
|
| I'm Sticking with xp & windows 98se forever.
|
| If I have to get a new computer it will be either mac or linux system.
|
| Greg Ro
|


  #40  
Old August 31st 05, 07:06 PM
Alias
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article , aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...
Even so, the music
industry is making trillions of dollars every year.


Looks like you have a problem with any company making LOTS of money, no
wonder you an Kurt get along soooo well.


I have no problem with companies making money. All I am saying is that
casual copying doesn't affect their bottom line much, if any.

They can only make money if customers support them.


And accusing all the paying customers of being thieves until they prove
otherwise is supporting the customers?

Alias


  #41  
Old August 31st 05, 07:08 PM
Alias
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article , aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...
Sharer: does it to be nice.

Seller: does it to make money.

You still don't see the difference?


And what is the difference - sharing or selling, they both deprive the
owner of money.


One does it for financial gain. The other doesn't. I don't know how much
simpler I can put it. Personally, there are a number of artists whose CDs I
would have never considered buying until someone sent me an MP3. I liked the
music and went and bought the CD. So, in my case, had there been no sharing,
the company would have lost the money I spent on the CD.

I just don't agree that it's the same, and you won't change my opinion
as I believe I'm just as right as you believe you are.


It's not the same.

Heh.

Alias


  #42  
Old August 31st 05, 07:38 PM
Alias
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article , aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...

"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article , aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...
Even so, the music
industry is making trillions of dollars every year.

Looks like you have a problem with any company making LOTS of money, no
wonder you an Kurt get along soooo well.


I have no problem with companies making money. All I am saying is that
casual copying doesn't affect their bottom line much, if any.


And in the literal scheme of things, that means that casual copying is
no different that stealing. How you "feel" about the reason makes no
difference - it's strictly a black and white thing - either it's paid
for or it's theft.


I guess the millions of people who taped music off the radio should be in
jail, right? Would you testify against a friend in court if you knew they
did that? Would you accept a reward for turning them in?

They can only make money if customers support them.


And accusing all the paying customers of being thieves until they prove
otherwise is supporting the customers?


And I'm not offended because I don't try and steal things, don't try and
steal a COPY for a friend. I'm not offended by companies trying to gain
sales or limit losses as long as the legitimate users can continue to
use the product as purchased under the rules that it was purchased
under.


Would you be offended if your paid for and legit XP didn't pass a test and
MS told you you had to buy another?

Alias


  #43  
Old August 31st 05, 07:58 PM
Plato
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Alias wrote:

The only people who will be inconvenienced are paying customers. The real
pirates that steal for a living will not, as usual, be affected.


Why does this sound like the old gun control argument?

eg crooks dont buy guns from legit stores but get them anyway and
continue to use them.
A law abiding citizen has to jump through many hoops to get a gun for
his hobby tho.


  #44  
Old August 31st 05, 08:47 PM
Jone Doe
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Actually the ones it will affect are the small computer stores that built a
whole buch of computers, but only one copy of XP which they put on all of
the computers. When I came back to complain about not having an XP disk,
they tried to give me a copy they had made. I yelled enough that I got a
retail copy from them, but never got around to installing it since it seemed
to work okay. Of course I eventually got caught and had to install the
legal version. I went back to the store and he tried to tell me he was
'allowed' to do what he did.

"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article , |@|.| says...
Alias wrote:

The only people who will be inconvenienced are paying customers. The
real
pirates that steal for a living will not, as usual, be affected.


Why does this sound like the old gun control argument?

eg crooks dont buy guns from legit stores but get them anyway and
continue to use them.
A law abiding citizen has to jump through many hoops to get a gun for
his hobby tho.


Funny, I bought a couple rifles and only had to complete a simple form,
wait about 6 minutes, and was able to walk out the door with it - but, I
also don't have anything in my background that would limit me from
purchasing a gun legally.

--


remove 999 in order to email me



  #45  
Old August 31st 05, 09:22 PM
David Schwartz
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Leythos" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...


I guess I look at it like this - you said "will prevent someone from
"sharing"... won't prevent the real thieves.....


I don't see the difference between someone "sharing" a file against
licensing rules and and pirates that copy entire CD's and sell them to
kids.


I'm sorry that you don't see the difference, but it is perfectly
obvious
to the rest of us. The first could easily be a legal example of fair use.
The second is clearly illegal.


Actually, I see the difference, but I disagree that there is a "real"
difference. I don't see any "real" difference between two kids making
copies of CD's and giving the copy to the other and a pirate making a
copy and selling it to anyone. In both cases there was an unpaid for
copy entering the market.


The two kids making copies of CD's and giving the copy to the other
could be an example of legally permissible fair use. For example, the second
copy could be for a legitimate research purpose or for nonprofit educational
purposes.

It's exactly because it is hard to tell the real difference between
these two cases that it's impossible for an automated mechanism to prevent
only illegal copying.

If you don't see the difference between legal conduct and illegal
conduct, your opinion that the software will only prevent conduct that is
illegal is quite meaningless, no?


But I do understand your position, I just don't see it in "degrees" of
being legal or not - making a copy for a friend is just as much illegal
as is selling a copy.


If you are making a copy for a friend to use for a nonprofit research
purpose, it's not illegal. There are no degrees of legal or not, fair use is
legal, period.

If the software blocks it, more power to it, as
long as the software doesn't keep me from playing while doing so
according to the sellers rules. Software won't prevent it, as others
have mentioned, it will just make it harder for the "casual" thief to do
it, which means that less people will become thieves.


So it is now your position that it the software will block some legal
activity and that this is perfectly fine with you? That is not the position
you took previously.

DS


 




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