Strange behavior of Win7/MSIE11

Win7 64-bit Home Edition.

I just discovered that my backup utility, FarStone Total Recovery, has
been failing to back up my MSIE Favorites folder, C:\Users\DB7\Favorites.
I poked around in TR and found that when it looks there, it finds a
folder named Favorites 160822. Windows Explorer shows it as simply
Favorites, so I thought TR was nuts.

But when I opened a command prompt and did a directory listing for C:
\Users\DB7, it too reported that the folder was Favorites 160822. And
when I copy that directory to another drive, it shows up there as
Favorites 160822.

I tried deleting that folder and creating a new Favorites, but when I ran
MSIE, it promptly created Favorites 160822 right alongside my Favorites,
and flagged that version as the "real" Favorites directory with its
little star icon.

Thinking that something in the Registry was telling Win7/MSIE 11 to
behave this way, I searched it for the string "Favorites 160822," but no
hits.

So I uninstalled MSIE 11 and 10 (which I was surprised to find still
there) and reinstalled a fresh copy of 11...which then promptly recreated
Favorites 160822.

At this point, I'm out of ideas. Anybody got another one?

--
--------------------------------------------
Dick Baker
(contact via http://goon.org/contact.php)

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 00:11:56 GMT, Dick Baker wrote:

I tried deleting that folder and creating a new Favorites, but when I ran
MSIE, it promptly created Favorites 160822 right alongside my Favorites,
and flagged that version as the "real" Favorites directory with its
little star icon.

Does MSIE actually use that "Favorites 160822" folder as its favorite
storage? Check it from the Internet Options control panel. If the Internet
Options still point to the "Favorites" folder (the other one, without the
"160822"), that'd mean an MSIE addon/malware is creating that "Favorites
160822" folder.

On 01/17/2018 06:11 PM, Dick Baker wrote:
Win7 64-bit Home Edition.

I just discovered that my backup utility, FarStone Total Recovery, has
been failing to back up my MSIE Favorites folder, C:\Users\DB7\Favorites.
I poked around in TR and found that when it looks there, it finds a
folder named Favorites 160822. Windows Explorer shows it as simply
Favorites, so I thought TR was nuts.

But when I opened a command prompt and did a directory listing for C:
\Users\DB7, it too reported that the folder was Favorites 160822. And
when I copy that directory to another drive, it shows up there as
Favorites 160822.

I tried deleting that folder and creating a new Favorites, but when I ran
MSIE, it promptly created Favorites 160822 right alongside my Favorites,
and flagged that version as the "real" Favorites directory with its
little star icon.

Thinking that something in the Registry was telling Win7/MSIE 11 to
behave this way, I searched it for the string "Favorites 160822," but no
hits.

So I uninstalled MSIE 11 and 10 (which I was surprised to find still
there) and reinstalled a fresh copy of 11...which then promptly recreated
Favorites 160822.

At this point, I'm out of ideas. Anybody got another one?



If Windows Explorer does not show the folder Favorites 160822.

Then I imagine your backup program does not "see" it either.

Is it perhaps hidden?


At any rate, I would not trust IE-11

I'd use Firefox or Chrome

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 10:37:46 +0700, JJ wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 00:11:56 GMT, Dick Baker wrote:

I tried deleting that folder and creating a new Favorites, but when I
ran MSIE, it promptly created Favorites 160822 right alongside my
Favorites, and flagged that version as the "real" Favorites directory
with its little star icon.

Does MSIE actually use that "Favorites 160822" folder as its favorite
storage? Check it from the Internet Options control panel. If the
Internet Options still point to the "Favorites" folder (the other one,
without the "160822"), that'd mean an MSIE addon/malware is creating
that "Favorites 160822" folder.

I've just combed (again) through Internet Options, and I can't find any
reference to a Favorites folder at all. Can you point me to exactly where
you seem to have found it?

--
--------------------------------------------
Dick Baker
--contact via http://goon.org/contact.php

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:24:12 -0600, philo wrote:

On 01/17/2018 06:11 PM, Dick Baker wrote:
Win7 64-bit Home Edition.

I just discovered that my backup utility, FarStone Total Recovery, has
been failing to back up my MSIE Favorites folder,
C:\Users\DB7\Favorites.
I poked around in TR and found that when it looks there, it finds a
folder named Favorites 160822. Windows Explorer shows it as simply
Favorites, so I thought TR was nuts.


If Windows Explorer does not show the folder Favorites 160822.

Then I imagine your backup program does not "see" it either.

Is it perhaps hidden?


No, read what I wrote again: My backup program sees only Favorites 160822--
that's what lead me to discover that in spite of what WinExp shows, Win7/
MSIE11 knows that folder only as Favorites 160822. And in any case, my
WinExp is set to show hidden files as well.


At any rate, I would not trust IE-11

I'd use Firefox or Chrome

I can't disagree with that. In fact, I started out using Firefox (or
actually, the Netscape/Firefox clone Sea Monkey) so I could avoid MSIE,
but I kept running into important web sites (such as my bank's) that
insisted that they only work with MSIE, so I reluctantly switched.

--
--------------------------------------------
Dick Baker
--contact via http://goon.org/contact.php

Dick Baker wrote:
Win7 64-bit Home Edition.

I just discovered that my backup utility, FarStone Total Recovery, has
been failing to back up my MSIE Favorites folder, C:\Users\DB7\Favorites.
I poked around in TR and found that when it looks there, it finds a
folder named Favorites 160822. Windows Explorer shows it as simply
Favorites, so I thought TR was nuts.

But when I opened a command prompt and did a directory listing for C:
\Users\DB7, it too reported that the folder was Favorites 160822. And
when I copy that directory to another drive, it shows up there as
Favorites 160822.

I tried deleting that folder and creating a new Favorites, but when I ran
MSIE, it promptly created Favorites 160822 right alongside my Favorites,
and flagged that version as the "real" Favorites directory with its
little star icon.

Thinking that something in the Registry was telling Win7/MSIE 11 to
behave this way, I searched it for the string "Favorites 160822," but no
hits.

So I uninstalled MSIE 11 and 10 (which I was surprised to find still
there) and reinstalled a fresh copy of 11...which then promptly recreated
Favorites 160822.

At this point, I'm out of ideas. Anybody got another one?


My guess is that on the 22nd August 2016 some body or program changed
your Favourites location.
To change it back navigate to the folder in Win Explorer, right click on
it and select Properties. Click the Location tab, and then either
Restore Default or Move.

Ed

"Dick Baker" wrote

| I just discovered that my backup utility, FarStone Total Recovery, has
| been failing to back up my MSIE Favorites folder, C:\Users\DB7\Favorites.
| I poked around in TR and found that when it looks there, it finds a
| folder named Favorites 160822. Windows Explorer shows it as simply
| Favorites, so I thought TR was nuts.
|
| But when I opened a command prompt and did a directory listing for C:
| \Users\DB7, it too reported that the folder was Favorites 160822. And
| when I copy that directory to another drive, it shows up there as
| Favorites 160822.
|

That kind of thing has been common for a long time.
It's usually done with a desktop.ini file. (Which you
won't see if you allow "hidden" files to be hidden.)
If you use anothr program to delete the desktop.ini
file you should temporarily see what's really there,
until Explorer notices and recreates desktop.ini.

The IE cache is similar. I'm currently on XP.
If I open C:\Windows\Temp\Temporary Internet Files
I see a bunch of webpage cache. Looks kosher.
But if I use another program to delete the desktop.ini
in there I see another Temporary Internet Files!
Inside that are various subfolders.

Windows uses desktop.ini files for various custom
views. Maybe you should export your favorites, if
that's possible. I haven't used IE online for many,
many years, so I don't have any favorites to test
saving. With Firefox I do back up the bookmarks.
I don't want to trust in future compatibility.

On 18/01/2018 16:54, Dick Baker wrote:

I've just combed (again) through Internet Options, and I can't find any
reference to a Favorites folder at all. Can you point me to exactly where
you seem to have found it?

It's a shell folder. The most relevant subkeys are under ...
HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Exp lorer\
Things are a little different in W7, but what used to happen in 2k/XP is
that the values in the subkey ...
User Shell Folders
.... contained environment variable substitution formulae used at logon
for calculating the values in the subkey ...
Shell Folders
.... which contained the values actually used during a logon session.

Now in W7 things are somewhat more complex, and besides the working
values the latter key contains a dummy ...

"!Do not use this registry key"="Use the SHGetFolderPath or
SHGetKnownFolderPath function instead"

.... but the former key doesn't contain this dummy. So I think that
notwithstanding this "Keep off the grass!" message, you could try
looking in "User Shell Folders" and checking the value there, and
correcting it if it's incorrect. You would then have at least to log
off and then back on again to pick up the change, possibly even reboot,
'though I don't think the latter should be necessary.

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 17:01:13 GMT, Dick Baker
wrote:


On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:24:12 -0600, philo wrote:



At any rate, I would not trust IE-11

I'd use Firefox or Chrome


I can't disagree with that. In fact, I started out using Firefox (or
actually, the Netscape/Firefox clone Sea Monkey) so I could avoid MSIE,
but I kept running into important web sites (such as my bank's) that
insisted that they only work with MSIE, so I reluctantly switched.




I can disagree with that--at least in part, for two reasons:

1. I don't like IE because I find it clumsy to use. Trusting it is not
the issue.

2. I use and like FireFox very much, but I think Chrome is as poor a
choice as IE.

And one other point: I can't believe that any bank's site would only
work with IE. For example, what do they do for the many Macintosh
users out there. I'm a Windows user, not a Macintosh user, but I've
run into *very* few sites that don't work with FireFox. If you find
some, why not use IE for those sites, and FireFox for the others?

"Ken Blake" wrote

| 1. I don't like IE because I find it clumsy to use. Trusting it is not
| the issue.
|
https://www.recordedfuture.com/top-v...bilities-2016/

Top 10 vulnerabilities of 2016. Most are Flash.
Two are IE. One is Silverlight. None are other
browsers. And I can also offer a numbered list.

1) Depending on settings, IE is not as bad as it used
to be, but it's still not great, as shown above.

2) The integration with Windows is a very big security
issue. IE is basically part of the shell, linked to Explorer.
No one in their right mind would install a browser that
wanted to work that way. Yet people use IE.

3) While IE has detailed control of settings, those
settings are vast, largely undocumented, and not
used by most people. They can also be overridden
by malware. IE is designed to let your IT boss
control it without you knowing, overriding the
settings you choose. Malware can do the same.

Just under security there are dozens of settings.
If you count zones it goes into the thousands.
"Navigate subframes across different domains"?
Sounds like cross-site scripting. I'm not even sure.
How many people would ever see that? Yet CSS is
a big risk.
Active-X signed or not with certificates? Who
knows what that means? Very few. And far fewer
know there's still a risk of forged certificates.

It's simply not possible for the average person,
or even most techie people, to adjust IE settings
knowledgeably.

4) IE11 is a crippled monstrosity. It's no longer
entirely IE, but it's also not otherwise. By default,
all the IE-specific functionality is disabled. It can
only be enabled on a per-site basis. So it comes
dancing in telling the server that it's IE but it's
actually a stripped-down version.

5) IE11 has no reason to exist, except as an
update for writing HTAs. That's the only reason
it's still on Win10. Edge is basically IE with
limited functionality. IE11 in default mode is
similar.

On 01/18/2018 11:01 AM, Dick Baker wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:24:12 -0600, philo wrote:

On 01/17/2018 06:11 PM, Dick Baker wrote:
Win7 64-bit Home Edition.

I just discovered that my backup utility, FarStone Total Recovery, has
been failing to back up my MSIE Favorites folder,
C:\Users\DB7\Favorites.
I poked around in TR and found that when it looks there, it finds a
folder named Favorites 160822. Windows Explorer shows it as simply
Favorites, so I thought TR was nuts.


If Windows Explorer does not show the folder Favorites 160822.

Then I imagine your backup program does not "see" it either.

Is it perhaps hidden?


No, read what I wrote again: My backup program sees only Favorites 160822--
that's what lead me to discover that in spite of what WinExp shows, Win7/
MSIE11 knows that folder only as Favorites 160822. And in any case, my
WinExp is set to show hidden files as well.


Ok I missed that

At any rate, I would not trust IE-11

I'd use Firefox or Chrome

I can't disagree with that. In fact, I started out using Firefox (or
actually, the Netscape/Firefox clone Sea Monkey) so I could avoid MSIE,
but I kept running into important web sites (such as my bank's) that
insisted that they only work with MSIE, so I reluctantly switched.



I know there is one browser that can be used for IE only websites

I think it is Brave Browser. I use it on my Linux machine for such sites
but have not needed it in quite some time. At any rate, you may want to
try the Windows version

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 17:01:13 GMT, Dick Baker
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:24:12 -0600, philo wrote:

At any rate, I would not trust IE-11

I'd use Firefox or Chrome

I can't disagree with that. In fact, I started out using Firefox (or
actually, the Netscape/Firefox clone Sea Monkey) so I could avoid MSIE,
but I kept running into important web sites (such as my bank's) that
insisted that they only work with MSIE, so I reluctantly switched.

Did the sites actually not work with Sea Monkey, or were you only seeing
boilerplate language similar to "This site is optimized to work best
with IE", or words to that effect?

I used to see a lot of sites that said they worked best with IE, but I
don't see that anymore, and I can't remember the last time I ran into a
site that didn't work with Firefox. I'm guessing it's at least 10 years
or more.

--

Char Jackson

Dick Baker wrote:
Win7 64-bit Home Edition.

I just discovered that my backup utility, FarStone Total Recovery, has
been failing to back up my MSIE Favorites folder, C:\Users\DB7\Favorites.
I poked around in TR and found that when it looks there, it finds a
folder named Favorites 160822. Windows Explorer shows it as simply
Favorites, so I thought TR was nuts.

But when I opened a command prompt and did a directory listing for C:
\Users\DB7, it too reported that the folder was Favorites 160822. And
when I copy that directory to another drive, it shows up there as
Favorites 160822.

I tried deleting that folder and creating a new Favorites, but when I ran
MSIE, it promptly created Favorites 160822 right alongside my Favorites,
and flagged that version as the "real" Favorites directory with its
little star icon.

Thinking that something in the Registry was telling Win7/MSIE 11 to
behave this way, I searched it for the string "Favorites 160822," but no
hits.

So I uninstalled MSIE 11 and 10 (which I was surprised to find still
there) and reinstalled a fresh copy of 11...which then promptly recreated
Favorites 160822.

At this point, I'm out of ideas. Anybody got another one?


https://www.howtogeek.com/115412/cha...rer-favorites/

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\Explorer\User Shell Folders
Favorites

Apparently that links to the real storage location for that folder.

*******

And I thought IE11 had switched to using a ESE (Jet Blue)
database to store such things. I don't think the Favorites
in IE6 work the same way as IE11 for example. While this
article is Cookies, how much work would it be for them
to do Favorites that way too ?

https://superuser.com/questions/1083...stored/1223155

*******

In a general sense "Bookmarks : Export" is the safest way
to store favorites. There is no guarantee that the original
browser or any other browser can Import them again. You need
to test that and see what breakage occurs. If the method of
storing them changes between releases, the Exported format
may be the only common thing between them.

There's an assumption, that when you see a folder with some
icons in it, that this is the end of the story, and copying
the folder to your backup device is "sufficient". Well, it
might not be. Modern software design loves to "smear stuff
around", and if half a favorite is the icon, and the other
half is in a webcache ESE database, then the developer is
extremely happy ("architecture genius"), the end user less
so.

I've lost the icons in my bookmarks before, by deleting
the wrong database, and managing issues like this can be
painful. Especially, keeping track of the changes they
make to stuff.

With enough effort with sysinternals.com ProcMon, you might
be able to watch and see what files are getting modified
when you make a new Favorite. You have to distinguish
between the temporary storage of files when you visit
the website, versus the later file system activity when
you make that site a Favorite. Don't just collect the
whole trace and claim every reference in there is relevant.
You just want to watch when the Favorite is being made,
and see what files get "touched".

Paul

Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 17:01:13 GMT, Dick Baker
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:24:12 -0600, philo wrote:

At any rate, I would not trust IE-11

I'd use Firefox or Chrome
I can't disagree with that. In fact, I started out using Firefox (or
actually, the Netscape/Firefox clone Sea Monkey) so I could avoid MSIE,
but I kept running into important web sites (such as my bank's) that
insisted that they only work with MSIE, so I reluctantly switched.

Did the sites actually not work with Sea Monkey, or were you only seeing
boilerplate language similar to "This site is optimized to work best
with IE", or words to that effect?

I used to see a lot of sites that said they worked best with IE, but I
don't see that anymore, and I can't remember the last time I ran into a
site that didn't work with Firefox. I'm guessing it's at least 10 years
or more.


This site seems capable of throwing up a "bad browser" result,
with just about any browser. All depends on what mood it's
in at the time.

https://www.winhelp.us/internet-expl...favorites.html

So rather than "optimized" or "we don't support this browser any more",
they pretend your browser is a space alien :-) Like you went
to all the trouble of making an Agent string they had never
seen before.

You're not actually supposed to sniff User Agent strings,
but they probably didn't get the memo. You're supposed to
sniff capability instead. And then make confusing comments
like "this browser doesn't support Javascript", when, obviously,
it does. Just the wrong version of Javascript, but no error
message ever refers to that aspect of it.

There aren't really a lot of honest responses from web browsers.
Mostly tangential references you'll never figure out in
a million years.

Paul

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 16:54:35 GMT, Dick Baker wrote:

I've just combed (again) through Internet Options, and I can't find any
reference to a Favorites folder at all. Can you point me to exactly where
you seem to have found it?

Ah, sorry. My bad.
It's not in the Internet Options control panel. It's in the registry, just
like the others have mentioned.