Utilities question

On 26 Mar 2015, Stormin' Norman wrote
in alt.windows7.general:

Install Windows in a password protected VM for those special
applications.

As I said, it's not a big issue any more since the kid left home.

I think that setting up a Linux desktop for someone would only be a
good idea if they are doing the most basic of tasks, like browsing the
web and reading email. Of their needs are simple and static, OK. If
they will ever want to do much of anything more in the future, they
will need someone close at hand to help them out, and that would
certainly fall on me.

On 03/26/2015 03:15 PM, Nil wrote:
She depends on some applications that only run on Windows,
namely MS Money and Quickbooks.

Have you taken a look at GNU Cash? Windows, Linux, Apple

http://gnucash.org/

On 26 Mar 2015, T wrote in alt.windows7.general:

On 03/26/2015 03:15 PM, Nil wrote:
She depends on some applications that only run on Windows,
namely MS Money and Quickbooks.

Have you taken a look at GNU Cash? Windows, Linux, Apple

http://gnucash.org/

No, but I will. It might be a solution for a future problem.

On 3/26/15 5:34 PM, Nil wrote:
On 26 Mar 2015, T wrote in alt.windows7.general:

On 03/26/2015 03:15 PM, Nil wrote:
She depends on some applications that only run on Windows,
namely MS Money and Quickbooks.

Have you taken a look at GNU Cash? Windows, Linux, Apple

http://gnucash.org/

No, but I will. It might be a solution for a future problem.

Note that Gnu-Cash is a double entry system, where some Quickbooks
versions are single entry. Also, the last time I looked at Gnu-Cash,
there was a major accounting feature missing, but I don't remember what
it is.



--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 03/26/2015 04:46 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 3/26/15 5:34 PM, Nil wrote:
On 26 Mar 2015, T wrote in alt.windows7.general:

On 03/26/2015 03:15 PM, Nil wrote:
She depends on some applications that only run on Windows,
namely MS Money and Quickbooks.

Have you taken a look at GNU Cash? Windows, Linux, Apple

http://gnucash.org/

No, but I will. It might be a solution for a future problem.

Note that Gnu-Cash is a double entry system, where some Quickbooks
versions are single entry. Also, the last time I looked at Gnu-Cash,
there was a major accounting feature missing, but I don't remember what
it is.




It is missing payroll and inventory

On 3/26/15 8:53 AM, Paul wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:
On 3/26/15 2:33 AM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 3/25/2015 11:02 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 03:05:35 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:

What exactly is bad about their reg cleaner? Exactly? I know there
are
so many registry cleaners that make claims they are a cure all that
everyone says to stay clear of them all. CCleaner has one included and
if you simply back up your registry then what's the problem? What's
the
worst that could happen that one can't be prepared for from the start?


The worst that could happen with *any* registry cleaner is that using
it leaves your system unbootable.

Yes, it's less likely with CCleaner than with most other registry
cleaners, but the risk is not zero.

In response to the replies I would recommend reading more about bloated
registries related to cleaners. One can spend much time reading the pros
and cons and in the end it's a matter of what you choose to believe and
who. Everyone knows over time the system gets slower and more bogged
down and no matter what you do sometimes you can never return it to the
speed it has after the clean install. I believe good registry hygiene is
part of the solution. The same as removing temp files and trying to save
drive space when drives are so huge these days it's of little
consequence some people still can't rest unless their system is clean I
guess.

Use your critical eye, and have a look at this.

http://windowssecrets.com/top-story/...s-to-the-test/


What stands out to me, is jv16 (for some reason), has managed
to chop exactly 2 seconds off each of three metrics. While
at the same time, the registry is 5MB bigger than the baseline
condition. Which means something other than the registry
is at play. I wonder what that would be ?

Notice for the bottom four lines, there is hardly any difference
in registry file size. Even though the cleaners have done their
best to clean "orphan" entries out of the registry, it's
still 4 to 5MB larger than it used to be. I guess the cleaner
must be removing the "tiny" reg entries ? :-) You know, when it
finds "27,000 problems" :-)

Nice link, Paul. Thanks.

Using said critical eye, however... LOL

As soon as I saw "Virtual Box", the article became less than 100%
accurate for me, and maybe a little less reliable. Why? I have VM
software here, and not a single OS install operates *exactly* the same
as it does in real life. So how can we expect any results from a test
such as this to accurately produce the results. Are his results correct
in a general sense? Probably. But it's no guarantee the results would
be the same a real system used as a test bed.

This in turn makes me wonder... Why didn't he just create and reinstall
system images?

Next, he only tests 2 of how many registry cleaners out there? Hardly a
representative sample.

Third, how do we know that a certain percentage of the cleaning programs
simply run MS's own tools in the background, and provide the user with
more information and options that MS does?

So, I went to MS and checked on Disk Cleanup/cleanmgr.exe. I selected
Windows 7 as the operating system for the search. Which brought up this
article:

http://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/253597/en-us "Automating Disk
Cleanup Tool in Windows". In and of itself, the article seems quite
revealing when you read with the "critical eye". LOL

The 2nd sentence in the article says "This article applies to Windows
2000". This says to me there's no basic changes to the Disk Cleanup
system since 2000, other than to make it operated under newer versions
of Windows. The newest OS listed in the area of what the article
applies to is Win7. But since the last update of the article is
12/17/12, I will stipulate it probably applies to Win 8.X also.

The other interesting statement I found is this: "You can start the
Disk Cleanup tool by running Cleanmgr.exe, or by clicking Start,
pointing to Programs, pointing to Accessories, pointing to System Tools,
and then clicking Disk Cleanup." This sentence says to me there is no
difference between running the GUI interface or the command line
interface. I don't have a Win7 up and running at the moment, but it
would be interesting to compare the switches listed in the article to
the list of options in the GUI. I'm betting they are the same. :-)

It seems the moral of this story is, if you really want to clean your
computer of all the "junk", do a clean install in some way. Personally,
I'd have a system image or two sitting around somewhere. G

I think any person who was brave enough to do an experiment
design for this, would receive nothing but flack from
"polish my computer fanbois". I didn't expect the
experiment design to impress anyone.

I quoted this article, to at least give some sort of indication
as to what a difference it was making.

To properly test Registry access performance (by polluting
the Registry with a million entries, then doing random accesses
to the Registry), that would take a program written in C, with
timestamping from Registry request, to response. And this is
not something your average Internet reviewer is going to do.
Only a programmer would take on a project like that.

But you're probably right, the fanbois would be up in arms. I've found
it interesting over the years, how people talk about Apple fanbois, when
there are Windows and Linux fanbois. I pay little attention to any of
them. Sometimes I think they'd deny it if they were told their pants
were on fire. LOL

Also interesting, since you posted the article and others have posted as
to successes with registry cleaning, regardless of method, is there
hasn't be any response from those against cleaning the registry. I'm
actually hoping they do, I'd like to hear their arguments against the
acknowledged poorly design test. Certainly can't say it makes no
difference in filesize.

As for most internet reviewers, most of them are not worth the digital
paper they right on.

CleanMgr adds new features in later OSes. It can clean
up detritus from Windows Update. It can remove Windows.old
after a Service Pack or Upgrade Install. The design is not
static. It received some performance improvements, but it
still tends to be a pig. For example, any special tick boxes
you use in there, that cause TIWorker (or equivalent) to scan
all the packages on the computer, that could keep your computer
busy for an hour, working out what stuff can be safely deleted.

I don't doubt it's gotten more abilities over the years. I just ran it
from the command window, and up popped the GUI window. I was expecting
to have to enter all the potential switches in the command window, as if
it was a command line program.

snip

--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 3/26/15 4:01 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:10:56 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 3/26/15 12:11 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:34:11 -0400, Nil wrote:

On 26 Mar 2015, Ken Springer wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

I gave up helping the inlaws years ago. I used to do a lot of
help, but then their son would come in and do something that was
at the opposite end of what I did.

That's my story, too! I visit my sister and her family once or twice a
year and I'd fix their computer while I was there. As soon as I left,
her son would commence breaking it again by downloading all kinds of
sketchy games and file sharing crap. I kept warning her that her
personal data was in danger of being compromised, but it didn't seem to
make much difference. Since the kid moved out of the house, it's no
longer a problem.

Out smart them, install a Linux distribution. If the kids wants to learn enough
to foul up a Linux installation, it might be worth it, at least the urchin would
learn something. JMHO.

But for the folks I mentioned, that would mean learning something new
and different... Heavens to Mergatroyd! LOL

I understand Snagglepuss....

But there are distros such as Mint which are very intuitive for the casual user
who is basically just web surfing, doing email and writing a few letters.

I'd sure like to try out some Live CD's, but I never get caught up
enough to do that.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 14:50:21 -0400, Paul wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 09:45:36 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

Maybe one can access the Unix console on Macs. I don't know.

It's quite easy, but I'm very out of practice (like 6 years), so i
don't recall the steps. Or the step :-)


You mean that shiny big Terminal icon ?

A friend at lunch told me that it only requires one click, and what he
was describing was probably that button.

Only in MacOSX.

There's no terminal in MacOS, where only
MacsBug debugger is your friend :-) There's
no OS "underneath" MacOS, and like a trapeze
artist, you work there without a net, and
can easily fall and hurt yourself :-)

Paul

Are any Mac OS systems still running?

My Mac experience is with OS X only.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Ken Springer wrote:


But you're probably right, the fanbois would be up in arms. I've found
it interesting over the years, how people talk about Apple fanbois, when
there are Windows and Linux fanbois. I pay little attention to any of
them. Sometimes I think they'd deny it if they were told their pants
were on fire. LOL

Also interesting, since you posted the article and others have posted as
to successes with registry cleaning, regardless of method, is there
hasn't be any response from those against cleaning the registry. I'm
actually hoping they do, I'd like to hear their arguments against the
acknowledged poorly design test. Certainly can't say it makes no
difference in filesize.

As for most internet reviewers, most of them are not worth the digital
paper they right on.

I don't repair PCs for a living, and the chances of
such a person having the time to waste time arguing in a
USENET group, is pretty small. Most people have had enough
"fun" doing this for their day job, and don't want
to spend more hours here doing the same thing.

The onus is usually put on such people, to execute
all sorts of complicated test cases, to "prove their
point". I don't have the skill set to do a good
job on this particular topic, so I'm not going there.

I've read of one particular scenario. That is the
installation of an HP print driver, followed by
registry cleaning, which caused damage over one
particular registry entry. If you leave the registry
entry alone, everything appears to be fine. After
a cleaning, the removed entry causes a serious problem.
Requiring the two-step recipe to get a backup copy
of the Registry from System Restore (assuming a
restore point from before the Registry Cleaning
is available).

All I need to read, is even one event like that,
to guide me on how I'll be running my own personal
machines. I can obtain guidance from events like this,
without needing a PhD thesis to back it up.

If you're comfortable with the risks, make an SR point,
be my guest and have at it :-)

*******

Some things are illegal in Registry keys, and require
a separate procedure to set right. It's possible
the tipped-over Registry involved something like
this. But I don't repair Registries for a living,
so don't quote me on that.

"registry key that contains embedded null characters..."
http://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2021860

And just to be clear, the Registry is filled with
16 bit wide character strings. Consisting of ASCII
characters apparently separated by 0x00 characters.
That's not a null. A null would be 0x00 0x00 in a
row, as far as I know. Certain of those sequences
aren't supposed to be used. But you may find that
after some huge (HP printer driver) installation
that such a registry entry has shown up. If you
leave it alone, you might be blissfully unaware
it's even sitting in there.

Similar comments for tools that make file names.
You can boot an alternate OS, create something which
might be illegal in Windows, and then have a hell of
a time dealing with it back in Windows. There are
plenty of goofy scenarios, that will waste
half your day correcting them.

Paul

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 14:50:21 -0400, Paul wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 09:45:36 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

Maybe one can access the Unix console on Macs. I don't know.
It's quite easy, but I'm very out of practice (like 6 years), so i
don't recall the steps. Or the step :-)

You mean that shiny big Terminal icon ?

A friend at lunch told me that it only requires one click, and what he
was describing was probably that button.

Only in MacOSX.

There's no terminal in MacOS, where only
MacsBug debugger is your friend :-) There's
no OS "underneath" MacOS, and like a trapeze
artist, you work there without a net, and
can easily fall and hurt yourself :-)

Paul

Are any Mac OS systems still running?

My Mac experience is with OS X only.


I can still run one here. "Classic" support
is present on my G4, so in essence it's running
in there. And surprisingly, the VM-like environment
it runs in, doesn't "tip over" all that often.
Which is unusual for the MacOS. (I don't know
how many times MacOS crashed at work - probably
hundreds of times... It used to crash
on average, once a day.)

On the G4, I have plenty of legacy tools that
run in Classic. And fewer tools that are native
MacOSX applications. For example, I have Photoshop
from the Classic era, and that's how it is run
on that machine. If I need to do some complicated
Photochopping, or even to run my Agfa Scanner,
I do it from in there.

That machine is dual boot, and set up dual boot
by Apple. It can boot MacOSX (and that's how
it is set right now). When booted in MacOSX,
the MacOS VM handles Classic applications.
But I can also set the boot selection to
actual MacOS. Then, it boots MacOS native,
and MacOSX is no longer running. There is
some storage driver I need to fiddle with,
for something related to that. When you install
add-in cards, there are a few details you have
to take care of. I think my Adaptec 2930 SCSI
card (that runs the scanner), you can only have
a driver loaded for one of the two OSes (or something).
Since I don't use the machine all that much any
more, I try not to mess it up if I can help it.

But it's a very flexible machine. It has a copy
of Connectix VPC on it, so it also runs Windows
when I need it. The machine has 2GB of RAM,
and "is a small space ship" :-) It's slow
as molasses, by conventional standards, because
Apple always had the slowest clocked PPC CPUs on
the planet. I think that thing is 1.25GHz or so.

It's one of these, purchased because it's the last
machine that runs Classic in native mode. PPC based,
not Intel. Uses all my old software. The quad
nostrils are part of the "styling". USB 1.1
connectors (yuck!).

http://www.usedcomp.de/infos/Apple_PowerMac_G4.jpg

Paul

Ken Springer wrote:
On 3/26/15 4:01 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:10:56 -0600, Ken Springer

wrote:

On 3/26/15 12:11 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:34:11 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 26 Mar 2015, Ken Springer wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

I gave up helping the inlaws years ago. I used to do a lot of
help, but then their son would come in and do something that was
at the opposite end of what I did.

That's my story, too! I visit my sister and her family once or twice a
year and I'd fix their computer while I was there. As soon as I left,
her son would commence breaking it again by downloading all kinds of
sketchy games and file sharing crap. I kept warning her that her
personal data was in danger of being compromised, but it didn't
seem to
make much difference. Since the kid moved out of the house, it's no
longer a problem.

Out smart them, install a Linux distribution. If the kids wants to
learn enough
to foul up a Linux installation, it might be worth it, at least the
urchin would
learn something. JMHO.

But for the folks I mentioned, that would mean learning something new
and different... Heavens to Mergatroyd! LOL

I understand Snagglepuss....

But there are distros such as Mint which are very intuitive for the
casual user
who is basically just web surfing, doing email and writing a few letters.

I'd sure like to try out some Live CD's, but I never get caught up
enough to do that.

There's a Ubuntu LiveCD for PPC that runs on the Mac.
You don't even need to step out of your chair :-)

That's how I managed to image my Mac disk drives,
so they're copied over here to the PC.

Paul

On 3/26/15 7:42 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 14:50:21 -0400, Paul wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 09:45:36 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

Maybe one can access the Unix console on Macs. I don't know.

It's quite easy, but I'm very out of practice (like 6 years), so i
don't recall the steps. Or the step :-)


You mean that shiny big Terminal icon ?

A friend at lunch told me that it only requires one click, and what he
was describing was probably that button.

Only in MacOSX.

There's no terminal in MacOS, where only
MacsBug debugger is your friend :-) There's
no OS "underneath" MacOS, and like a trapeze
artist, you work there without a net, and
can easily fall and hurt yourself :-)

Paul

Are any Mac OS systems still running?

I have a PowerMac 6400 here that runs, and an HP Scanjet and one of the
Apple branded HP Deskjet for it. System 9.1. But there's so little you
can do with it these days because the world has moved on.

My Mac experience is with OS X only.



--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 3/26/15 8:59 PM, Paul wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:
On 3/26/15 4:01 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:10:56 -0600, Ken Springer

wrote:

On 3/26/15 12:11 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:34:11 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 26 Mar 2015, Ken Springer wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

I gave up helping the inlaws years ago. I used to do a lot of
help, but then their son would come in and do something that was
at the opposite end of what I did.

That's my story, too! I visit my sister and her family once or twice a
year and I'd fix their computer while I was there. As soon as I left,
her son would commence breaking it again by downloading all kinds of
sketchy games and file sharing crap. I kept warning her that her
personal data was in danger of being compromised, but it didn't
seem to
make much difference. Since the kid moved out of the house, it's no
longer a problem.

Out smart them, install a Linux distribution. If the kids wants to
learn enough
to foul up a Linux installation, it might be worth it, at least the
urchin would
learn something. JMHO.

But for the folks I mentioned, that would mean learning something new
and different... Heavens to Mergatroyd! LOL

I understand Snagglepuss....

But there are distros such as Mint which are very intuitive for the
casual user
who is basically just web surfing, doing email and writing a few letters.

I'd sure like to try out some Live CD's, but I never get caught up
enough to do that.

There's a Ubuntu LiveCD for PPC that runs on the Mac.
You don't even need to step out of your chair :-)

I've experimented with some of the current LIveCDs on this Mac and a
Windows machine. Some ran, some didn't. That was a couple years ago,
so I don't know what it would be like now.

That's how I managed to image my Mac disk drives,
so they're copied over here to the PC.

Paul



--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

| I quoted this article, to at least give some sort of indication
| as to what a difference it was making.

I wonder how relevant that really is. Fred Langa
was testing a general cleanup, not just Registry
cleaning. And as you pointed out, much of the
"orphan" data added to the Registry was left behind.
What struck me was how any software could manage
to install *70 MB* of new Registry values. Even the
6 MB left behind is hard to believe.

Especially ironic: Fred Langa said that for his test he
downloaded the top 20 programs on CNet. As of today,
CCleaner is on that list, as is another system cleaner,
along with 2 AV programs, Malwarebytes and a defragger.

| "The pH of gastric acid is 1.5 to 3.5 in the human stomach lumen,
| the acidity being maintained by the proton pump H+/K+ ATPase."

| It's possible some other part of the digestive system
| is reacting. You have a gall bladder, and if the coffee had
| fat in it, maybe that's a source of a reaction.
|

That's an interesting point. I find I get abdominal pains
from old coffee that's been left on a heating elenment.
(Identified by the color when milk is added. Fresh coffee
has a warm, yellowish tone. Old coffee loses the yellow,
gains an umber-ish cast, and tastes bitter.)
I also find I get intestinal queasiness from drinking a number of
beers on an empty stomach. I can get "spins" and nausea
from 6 or so beers. In my nightclubbing days I discovered
that about a teaspoon of baking soda after, say, the 5th
beer would prevent all of those unpleasant side effects.
So acid *seems* to be the culprit, but perhaps not in
the stomach.

Unfortunately it seems to take a lifetime to figure
out how to best use the human vehicle. And given the
prevalence of ads for indigestion and acid reflux, I
don't think most people even think to connect what they
eat to their health. Mainstream America clearly thinks
that acid reflux, indigestion, headaches, inability to sleep,
and so forth, are just "normal" disorders that one catches,
like a cold, and which are treated with drugs, just like
any sickness.