Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)

On Fri, 01 Sep 2017 12:16:40 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Fri, 01 Sep 2017 00:59:11 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

Yesterday, after lunch in a restaurant, I came out to find my car's
battery had died. I called my insurance company's road service number
to get someone out to jump the car.

The person on the phone had trouble identifying my location. The
restaurant is on a road that has a number (SR 436) but also has names.
Plural. It changes names in each suburb it goes through, and I was in
one suburb but within a mile of another suburb to the east and within
a mile of another suburb to the west.

I tried to provide landmarks, but he was unfamiliar with the area. It
turned out that he was in Minnesota, not Florida. I thought his
accent was a bit strange for a Floridian, but it did make it easier
that he was not in Manila, Singapore, or Mumbai.


I've gotten help desks with people in Manila, Singapore, and Mumbai.
Some of them spoke English with an accent so heavy that I couldn't
understand them; others spoke with an accent so slight that it was no
problem at all. As I said in another message moments ago, I don't care
where he's from; I care how well he speaks English.


My objection is not to the people from those places, but to the
practice of US companies out-sourcing their help lines to firms that
employ people who are not proficient in English. If it's a job that
specifically entails proficiency in communicating in English that is
understandable to the caller, then the person on the other end of the
call should be proficient in English.

Further, we only call those lines when we are faced with something
that requires some skill or information that we don't possess or are
not comfortable in dealing with. We start out with a disadvantage.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On 2/9/17 3:40 am, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 13:52:32 -0500, Sam E
wrote:

On 08/31/2017 11:05 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:

[sni[]

Some "help" lines allow you to leave your number and someone will
return the call. It's worked pretty well for me.

Wait 8 hours effectively in jail since you have to be home to hear the
phone, then make a mistake and step outside for 30 seconds. THAT'S when
they call. Then start the whole process again...


In my experience, whenever I've been given that option, I have also
been told the maximum time I will have to wait for the callback. It
usually isn't very long and I choose the option only if I know I'll be
home for that period.


My bank answering machine says "within four hours". Experience tells me
this is an underestimate.

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

On Sat, 2 Sep 2017 07:21:58 +0800, Robert Bannister
wrote:

On 2/9/17 3:40 am, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 13:52:32 -0500, Sam E
wrote:

On 08/31/2017 11:05 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:

[sni[]

Some "help" lines allow you to leave your number and someone will
return the call. It's worked pretty well for me.

Wait 8 hours effectively in jail since you have to be home to hear the
phone, then make a mistake and step outside for 30 seconds. THAT'S when
they call. Then start the whole process again...


In my experience, whenever I've been given that option, I have also
been told the maximum time I will have to wait for the callback. It
usually isn't very long and I choose the option only if I know I'll be
home for that period.


My bank answering machine says "within four hours". Experience tells me
this is an underestimate.



OK, but your experience is different from mine.

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message
...
My objection is not to the people from those places, but to the
practice of US companies out-sourcing their help lines to firms that
employ people who are not proficient in English. If it's a job that
specifically entails proficiency in communicating in English that is
understandable to the caller, then the person on the other end of the
call should be proficient in English.

I agree whole-heartedly. In an ideal world, the jobs would go to people in
the same country as the caller - as a Brit I'd prefer (ideally) that the
work went to other British people. But maybe some would perceive that as
being racist.

But leaving that aside, the main thing is that the people who staff these
support desks should be able to communicate flawlessly with the people who
call, and that may involve appreciating the subtleties of English as spoken
by a Brit or an American. Using people for whom English is a second language
is very risky, especially when there are also cultural pressures like
working from a script, not being able to modify your technical level to
adapt to that of the caller, and saying "yes, most certainly" when you mean
"no", thus raising false expectations.

On 02/09/17 09:21, Robert Bannister wrote:
On 2/9/17 3:40 am, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 13:52:32 -0500, Sam E
wrote:

On 08/31/2017 11:05 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:

[sni[]

Some "help" lines allow you to leave your number and someone will
return the call. It's worked pretty well for me.

Wait 8 hours effectively in jail since you have to be home to hear the
phone, then make a mistake and step outside for 30 seconds. THAT'S when
they call. Then start the whole process again...


In my experience, whenever I've been given that option, I have also
been told the maximum time I will have to wait for the callback. It
usually isn't very long and I choose the option only if I know I'll be
home for that period.

My bank answering machine says "within four hours". Experience tells me
this is an underestimate.

Are you still with one of the big banks? Do yourself a favour and switch
to a building society or credit union.

I did that years ago, in disgust after the fees that my then bank was
charging. I've never regretted it.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

On 02/09/17 05:16, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 01 Sep 2017 00:59:11 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

Certainly easier to understand than the people who call once a week
telling me that they have discovered there's a problem with my
computer and want to let them log on and correct the problem.

Those are the people you don't want to understand. vbg

I actually engage with those people. I use every obscenity I can think
of. On one occasion I managed to go for two minutes before he hung up.

A friend of mine did better, and I wish I could imitate his approach. He
said things like "That's very interesting", and "tell me more", and "I
didn't understand that part; could you explain it again?" After about 15
minutes the scammer finally got to the point of saying that he should
boot up his computer. At that point Lenny said "But I don't have a
computer". The caller was furious.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

On 02/09/17 04:55, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 08/31/2017 11:10 PM, charles wrote:

[snip]

What really annoys me is being on hold for an hour, and then being
answered by someone whose Indian accent is so strong that I can hardly
understand a word.

You get those too?

I had a lot of that when I had a WiFi hotspot from a V company (no, not
Verizon).

BTW, When I bought a prepaid card, the receipt was printed "Virgin $30".

There's a brothel about 10 km from my home where the sign out the front
says "rear entry".

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

On 02/09/17 05:08, Ken Blake wrote:

I've been in airports in some parts of the USA where announcements
were made by someone with a Spanish accent so heavy that I couldn't
understand him. And the speaker might well have been a US citizen.
Sure, give someone like that a job in the airport; just don't give him
*that* job.

There was a time when I had to take a lot of trains in Belgium. The
system there, as nearly as I can guess, is that they get the Flemish
speakers to make the announcements in French and the French speakers to
make the announcements in Flemish.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

My objection is not to the people from those places, but to the
practice of US companies out-sourcing their help lines to firms
that employ people who are not proficient in English.
But leaving that aside, the main thing is that the people who
staff these support desks should be able to communicate flawlessly
with the people who call, and that may involve appreciating the
subtleties of English as spoken by a Brit or an American.

Are only Brits and Americans allowed to call support lines?

Not that these places will often want to employ people with
the social and linguistic skills required to deal with people
who aren't communicating in their first language. The pay and
conditions for call centre workers are at a level where "pay
peanuts and you get monkeys" applies. A friend of mine (spent
all his life in Scotland, has a degree, mother is an academic
linguist) went to work for one in Scotland when he was hard up.
He found that the average time workers stayed on the job was
three weeks - he only lasted two.

[Followups set to a.u.e only]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07895 860 060 http://www.campin.me.uk Twitter: JackCampin

On Sat, 2 Sep 2017 11:48:46 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message
.. .
My objection is not to the people from those places, but to the
practice of US companies out-sourcing their help lines to firms that
employ people who are not proficient in English. If it's a job that
specifically entails proficiency in communicating in English that is
understandable to the caller, then the person on the other end of the
call should be proficient in English.

I agree whole-heartedly. In an ideal world, the jobs would go to people in
the same country as the caller - as a Brit I'd prefer (ideally) that the
work went to other British people. But maybe some would perceive that as
being racist.



I disagree whole-heartedly. First, yes, it's certainly prejudicial.
Second, people in the same country also sometime speak with accents
that make them hard to understand. Third, people in other countries
often speak with either no accent or so slight an accent that it's not
a problem.

The criterion for choosing people for the job should be how good their
English is, not where they are located.

On Sat, 2 Sep 2017 22:08:24 +1000, Peter Moylan
wrote:

On 02/09/17 05:16, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 01 Sep 2017 00:59:11 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

Certainly easier to understand than the people who call once a week
telling me that they have discovered there's a problem with my
computer and want to let them log on and correct the problem.

Those are the people you don't want to understand. vbg

I actually engage with those people. I use every obscenity I can think
of. On one occasion I managed to go for two minutes before he hung up.

A friend of mine did better, and I wish I could imitate his approach. He
said things like "That's very interesting", and "tell me more", and "I
didn't understand that part; could you explain it again?" After about 15
minutes the scammer finally got to the point of saying that he should
boot up his computer. At that point Lenny said "But I don't have a
computer". The caller was furious.



Although I understand how much Lenny must have enjoyed doing that, and
sympathize with him, I wouldn't have wanted to waste the 15 minutes
he did. I have too many other more important things to do.

If someone calls me and asks to speak with Mr. Blake or Kenneth,
rather than Ken, I know it's not someone I know, and hang up on him
almost immediately.

On Sat, 2 Sep 2017 09:50:43 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2017-09-02 08:08, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 02/09/17 05:16, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 01 Sep 2017 00:59:11 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

Certainly easier to understand than the people who call once a week
telling me that they have discovered there's a problem with my
computer and want to let them log on and correct the problem.

Those are the people you don't want to understand.** vbg

I actually engage with those people. I use every obscenity I can think
of. On one occasion I managed to go for two minutes before he hung up.

A friend of mine did better, and I wish I could imitate his approach. He
said things like "That's very interesting", and "tell me more", and "I
didn't understand that part; could you explain it again?" After about 15
minutes the scammer finally got to the point of saying that he should
boot up his computer. At that point Lenny said "But I don't have a
computer". The caller was furious.


I kept one on the line by asking about which computer he was talking
about. We have three.


Just curious, how did he respond?


"Wanted. Schrödinger’s Cat. Dead and Alive."


For a long time now, I've wanted to tell you how much I like that tag
line, but keep forgetting. I finally got around to it.

On Sat, 02 Sep 2017 08:26:14 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Sat, 2 Sep 2017 22:08:24 +1000, Peter Moylan
wrote:

On 02/09/17 05:16, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 01 Sep 2017 00:59:11 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

Certainly easier to understand than the people who call once a week
telling me that they have discovered there's a problem with my
computer and want to let them log on and correct the problem.

Those are the people you don't want to understand. vbg

I actually engage with those people. I use every obscenity I can think
of. On one occasion I managed to go for two minutes before he hung up.

A friend of mine did better, and I wish I could imitate his approach. He
said things like "That's very interesting", and "tell me more", and "I
didn't understand that part; could you explain it again?" After about 15
minutes the scammer finally got to the point of saying that he should
boot up his computer. At that point Lenny said "But I don't have a
computer". The caller was furious.



Although I understand how much Lenny must have enjoyed doing that, and
sympathize with him, I wouldn't have wanted to waste the 15 minutes
he did. I have too many other more important things to do.

It is your civic duty to commit those 15 minutes to dicking around
with the caller. That is 15 minutes in which he will not be able to
scam someone less savvy.

Just put him on speaker phone and continue to do what you would
normally do with that time. Occasionally tell the caller that you are
looking for the Start key, but all the keys on your keyboard are black
and look the same to you.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Sat, 02 Sep 2017 08:26:14 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

-snip -

If someone calls me and asks to speak with Mr. Blake or Kenneth,
rather than Ken, I know it's not someone I know, and hang up on him
almost immediately.

Same here (allowing for different names), but my most common response
to "May I speak to (name)" when I can hear call-centre noises in the
background is "No - you can't; sorry" before I hang up. (Whoever
wrote that script for them was incompetent, as they shouldn't give
punters like me the opening to answer that way.)

The claim I've heard lately is that if a cold-caller asks what is
meant to elicit a "yes" or "no" answer - "Am I speaking to Mr
Whatever? " - your answer shouldn't include the word "yes", as it can
be cut-and-pasted as the answer to an entirely different question
(like "Are you happy for us to contact you again?" or "Do you wish to
sign up to our service?"). They can then use it to argue that they
asked for and received consent if the regulators get on their backs
for mis-selling.

(That's presumably something of an urban myth, but I've stopped
answering "yes" to any question from cold-callers, just in case.)

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years),
indiscriminately mixed

On Sat, 02 Sep 2017 17:51:00 +0100, HVS
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Sep 2017 08:26:14 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

-snip -

If someone calls me and asks to speak with Mr. Blake or Kenneth,
rather than Ken, I know it's not someone I know, and hang up on him
almost immediately.

Same here (allowing for different names), but my most common response
to "May I speak to (name)" when I can hear call-centre noises in the
background is "No - you can't; sorry" before I hang up. (Whoever
wrote that script for them was incompetent, as they shouldn't give
punters like me the opening to answer that way.)

The claim I've heard lately is that if a cold-caller asks what is
meant to elicit a "yes" or "no" answer - "Am I speaking to Mr
Whatever? " - your answer shouldn't include the word "yes", as it can
be cut-and-pasted as the answer to an entirely different question
(like "Are you happy for us to contact you again?" or "Do you wish to
sign up to our service?"). They can then use it to argue that they
asked for and received consent if the regulators get on their backs
for mis-selling.

(That's presumably something of an urban myth, but I've stopped
answering "yes" to any question from cold-callers, just in case.)

I've stopped answering "yes" at all, for the same reason.
It is a cheap way to avoid a conceivable problem - rather like
making some concession to the latest unverified dietary advice.

I put robocalls on speaker and walk away. A couple of weeks
ago, one of them was still connected after an hour (though no
longer talking), so I did hang it up. A few of them say "bye"
before hanging up.

--
Rich Ulrich