How swap drive carriage?

Hi All,

Anyone know of a hot swap drive carriage, like this one

https://www.cru-inc.com/products/rtx/rtx110-3q/

only internal and supports USB3?

Many thanks,
-T

T wrote:

Anyone know of a hot swap drive carriage, like this one

https://www.cru-inc.com/products/rtx/rtx110-3q/

only internal and supports USB3?

How would the drives slide out? You would have to remove the side
panel. Well, at that point, just unscrew the 2 screws holding the drive
in the internal cage and pull the connectors from the drive. That only
works if the drive cage has the drives slide in sideways to the case.
If the cage is fore-to-aft of the case, usually there are cables or
components that make difficult the sliding backward of the drive out of
the cage. I usually find the fore-to-aft oriented drive cages (part of
the case) require me to move and even disconnect cables or angle out the
drives to get around cables or components. That's why a full tower is
often handy as its depth is greater to have more room between the cage
and any cables or components behind the cage. Else, an internal cage
that faces sideways lets you remove the 2 screws on the back side (the
only side you can usually get to when affixing the drives into the cage)
and slide the drive out the side where there is nothing to obstruct
their removable (other than the side panel which you already had to
remove).

If by "internal" you meant the standard drive bay mounted hotswap units,
there are lots of them. I'm surprised you couldn't find one. There are
some that have a tray mounted on the drive that slides into the cage.
Some are trayless (you slide the bare drive into the slot).

http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=157
http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=163

Also, does "supports USB3" mean the cage uses USB3 to connect to the
drives slid into it? Or do you want a hotswap cage that provides USB3
ports (to connect other devices)? If the latter, here's an example:

http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=158

On 09/01/2017 06:51 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

Anyone know of a hot swap drive carriage, like this one

https://www.cru-inc.com/products/rtx/rtx110-3q/

only internal and supports USB3?

How would the drives slide out? You would have to remove the side
panel. Well, at that point, just unscrew the 2 screws holding the drive
in the internal cage and pull the connectors from the drive. That only
works if the drive cage has the drives slide in sideways to the case.
If the cage is fore-to-aft of the case, usually there are cables or
components that make difficult the sliding backward of the drive out of
the cage. I usually find the fore-to-aft oriented drive cages (part of
the case) require me to move and even disconnect cables or angle out the
drives to get around cables or components. That's why a full tower is
often handy as its depth is greater to have more room between the cage
and any cables or components behind the cage. Else, an internal cage
that faces sideways lets you remove the 2 screws on the back side (the
only side you can usually get to when affixing the drives into the cage)
and slide the drive out the side where there is nothing to obstruct
their removable (other than the side panel which you already had to
remove).

If by "internal" you meant the standard drive bay mounted hotswap units,
there are lots of them. I'm surprised you couldn't find one. There are
some that have a tray mounted on the drive that slides into the cage.
Some are trayless (you slide the bare drive into the slot).

http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=157
http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=163

Also, does "supports USB3" mean the cage uses USB3 to connect to the
drives slid into it? Or do you want a hotswap cage that provides USB3
ports (to connect other devices)? If the latter, here's an example:

http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=158


Something that fits into a front panel 5-1/4 bay. The carriages
need to be something to protect the drives from the user when
he pulls them out and sticks them in his glove compartment.

I have these currently from CRU, but I am stuck with a bunch of
drives that won't hot swap. I tested them with a USB 3 adapter
and they work fine. So USB 3 out the back to a motherboard header.

T wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

T wrote:

Anyone know of a hot swap drive carriage, like this one

https://www.cru-inc.com/products/rtx/rtx110-3q/

only internal and supports USB3?

How would the drives slide out? You would have to remove the side
panel. Well, at that point, just unscrew the 2 screws holding the drive
in the internal cage and pull the connectors from the drive. That only
works if the drive cage has the drives slide in sideways to the case.
If the cage is fore-to-aft of the case, usually there are cables or
components that make difficult the sliding backward of the drive out of
the cage. I usually find the fore-to-aft oriented drive cages (part of
the case) require me to move and even disconnect cables or angle out the
drives to get around cables or components. That's why a full tower is
often handy as its depth is greater to have more room between the cage
and any cables or components behind the cage. Else, an internal cage
that faces sideways lets you remove the 2 screws on the back side (the
only side you can usually get to when affixing the drives into the cage)
and slide the drive out the side where there is nothing to obstruct
their removable (other than the side panel which you already had to
remove).

If by "internal" you meant the standard drive bay mounted hotswap units,
there are lots of them. I'm surprised you couldn't find one. There are
some that have a tray mounted on the drive that slides into the cage.
Some are trayless (you slide the bare drive into the slot).

http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=157
http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=163

Also, does "supports USB3" mean the cage uses USB3 to connect to the
drives slid into it? Or do you want a hotswap cage that provides USB3
ports (to connect other devices)? If the latter, here's an example:

http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=158


Something that fits into a front panel 5-1/4 bay. The carriages
need to be something to protect the drives from the user when
he pulls them out and sticks them in his glove compartment.

I have these currently from CRU, but I am stuck with a bunch of
drives that won't hot swap. I tested them with a USB 3 adapter
and they work fine. So USB 3 out the back to a motherboard header.

A caddy (into which the drive is mounted for a hotswap bay) won't
provide much protection to a bare bare drive, and that would only be for
a caddy enclosure rather than a slim caddy that just fits on the drive
for sliding into the bay. We have hotswap bays that don't even need a
caddy: the bare drive slides into the cage. Plus I've used USB-attached
docks into which the bare drive gets inserted. No problems handling the
bare drives.

What your drive-toting customer might need is a carry case for the bare
drive (or even the caddy-ed) drive if they're tossing it in the glove
box (it's big enough to fit a drive?).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071GKTPR9

If the bare or caddy-ed drive is too small (it moves around in the carry
case) then wrap it in anti-static bubble wrap (the stuff that comes
around daughtercards in retail packaging, like for video cards).

I have to wonder why the drive(s) won't work when attached to a SATA
mobo port but will work when connected to a SATA-to-USB adapter. Is
this an old SATA drive that has a header for a jumper? Yep, some [old]
SATA drives have a jumper block.

https://support.wdc.com/knowledgebas...atadesktopjump

Perhaps the drive is set to a transfer speed the onboard SATA controller
does not support. While you think the drive may be set too high for the
controller, some old drives could be jumpered to only support SATA 1.0
which the 2.0 controllers didn't support.

On 09/02/2017 12:07 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

T wrote:

Anyone know of a hot swap drive carriage, like this one

https://www.cru-inc.com/products/rtx/rtx110-3q/

only internal and supports USB3?

How would the drives slide out? You would have to remove the side
panel. Well, at that point, just unscrew the 2 screws holding the drive
in the internal cage and pull the connectors from the drive. That only
works if the drive cage has the drives slide in sideways to the case.
If the cage is fore-to-aft of the case, usually there are cables or
components that make difficult the sliding backward of the drive out of
the cage. I usually find the fore-to-aft oriented drive cages (part of
the case) require me to move and even disconnect cables or angle out the
drives to get around cables or components. That's why a full tower is
often handy as its depth is greater to have more room between the cage
and any cables or components behind the cage. Else, an internal cage
that faces sideways lets you remove the 2 screws on the back side (the
only side you can usually get to when affixing the drives into the cage)
and slide the drive out the side where there is nothing to obstruct
their removable (other than the side panel which you already had to
remove).

If by "internal" you meant the standard drive bay mounted hotswap units,
there are lots of them. I'm surprised you couldn't find one. There are
some that have a tray mounted on the drive that slides into the cage.
Some are trayless (you slide the bare drive into the slot).

http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=157
http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=163

Also, does "supports USB3" mean the cage uses USB3 to connect to the
drives slid into it? Or do you want a hotswap cage that provides USB3
ports (to connect other devices)? If the latter, here's an example:

http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=158


Something that fits into a front panel 5-1/4 bay. The carriages
need to be something to protect the drives from the user when
he pulls them out and sticks them in his glove compartment.

I have these currently from CRU, but I am stuck with a bunch of
drives that won't hot swap. I tested them with a USB 3 adapter
and they work fine. So USB 3 out the back to a motherboard header.

A caddy (into which the drive is mounted for a hotswap bay) won't
provide much protection to a bare bare drive,

The CRU caddies can be dropped from six feet on to concrete.

and that would only be for
a caddy enclosure rather than a slim caddy that just fits on the drive
for sliding into the bay.

Better look up the insertion rating on your connectors. CRU
is over 100,000.

We have hotswap bays that don't even need a
caddy: the bare drive slides into the cage.

This gives me hives. CRU has on of these too, but not
on your life will I let a orangutan grab one of these things
after walking across a carpet and toss it around his truck cab.
These drives have exposed circuitry to shock the dickens out of.

Plus I've used USB-attached
docks into which the bare drive gets inserted. No problems handling the
bare drives.

You will quickly wear out the connectors.

What your drive-toting customer might need is a carry case for the bare
drive (or even the caddy-ed) drive if they're tossing it in the glove
box (it's big enough to fit a drive?).

CRU sells these by the gross. They are a carrying bag for disk drives.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071GKTPR9

If the bare or caddy-ed drive is too small (it moves around in the carry
case) then wrap it in anti-static bubble wrap (the stuff that comes
around daughtercards in retail packaging, like for video cards).

I have to wonder why the drive(s) won't work when attached to a SATA
mobo port but will work when connected to a SATA-to-USB adapter.

That one interest me too. The chipset (C236) may have
something to do with it too. But I have another server out
with the identical motherboard and bios rev, and it
does not have this issue. But it uses different backup drives.

Is
this an old SATA drive

Nope. It is relative new: Western Digital HDD WD20NPVZ 2TB SATA
6Gb/s Mobile 8M Cache Internal 2.5inch Blue Bare

All five of them did this.

that has a header for a jumper? Yep, some [old]
SATA drives have a jumper block.

https://support.wdc.com/knowledgebas...atadesktopjump

Perhaps the drive is set to a transfer speed the onboard SATA controller
does not support. While you think the drive may be set too high for the
controller, some old drives could be jumpered to only support SATA 1.0
which the 2.0 controllers didn't support.


The drives work fine, until you unmount them. Then inserting them
back into the sleave crashes the OS. If you boot up with the sleave
empty, then insert the drive. Down you go. SATA = ACHI or RAID,
don't matter.

On 09/02/2017 08:29 PM, T wrote:
That one interest me too. The chipset (C236) may have
something to do with it too. But I have another server out
with the identical motherboard and bios rev, and it
does not have this issue. But it uses different backup drives.

And the issue does not reproduce on a Z87 chipset motherboard.
Acts just like usb 3

T wrote:

The CRU caddies can be dropped from six feet on to concrete.

"TrayFree bays make adding drives effortless. It's as easy as opening
the door, sliding the drive in, and closing the door. No screws, no
trays. It just works."

So the case goes with the drive when removed from the cage. Okay but I
don't how that differs from removing the drive from a trayless cage and
putting the drive into a transport case to effect the same protection.

https://www.cru-inc.com/products/rtx...-3q/?tab=specs

Don't see anything there are about drop protection. I looked at the
online manual and all it says about drive installation is "Slide the
drive in from the front of the carrier.". The drive attaches to a
"drive carrier" using screws. Well, that is not you using
shock-absorbing mounts to install the drive inside the case. You attach
a hard carrier onto the drive using hard screws and the drive+carrier
slides on hard rails to push onto connectors and use the door to keep
the drive in place. I see no mention in the warranty about them
covering the drive when dropped inside their case.

The case is hard. No mention of shock-absorbing mounts for the drive,
and nothing else soft to absorb shock inside the case, so the drive is
hardfixed to a carrier that is pressed against the hard case. Whatever
shock the case incurs is transferred to the drive.

not
on your life will I let a orangutan grab one of these things
after walking across a carpet and toss it around his truck cab.
These drives have exposed circuitry to shock the dickens out of.

Well, we don't need anything in the lab to exchange bare drives. Never
needed anything a home, either, when using a drive dock. However, in
your scenario, I did mention using a carry case that does provide some
shock absorption and you can use an anti-static bag.

In your scenario with an orangutan hurling around the drives, a case
isn't going to protect them, either. Wrapped in 10 pounds of
anti-static bubble wrap won't protect them. Nothing you use will
guarantee their survival in a high-speed car crash. You can conjure any
extreme you want that will surpass sane protection.

Plus I've used USB-attached docks into which the bare drive gets
inserted. No problems handling the bare drives.

You will quickly wear out the connectors.

Oh, and you thought there were no connectors on the CRU case? It
magically connects to your PC? You're asking about moving around the
drive so either you will wear the SATA connectors on the drive and in
the dock or trayless cage or you wear the connectors on the CRU case.

In the trayless cages we've used, you don't push the drive onto the
connectors by pushing on the drive or remove the drive by yanking on it.
There are levers that you push or pull plus the cage keeps the
connectors in alignment.

You be afraid if you want. We've been using these trayless hotswap
cages with bare drives for many years for hundreds of drives. We have
to test on a base OS install, OS with updates, OS at various service
pack levels, OS with various common apps installed, etc.

The drives work fine, until you unmount them. Then inserting them
back into the sleave crashes the OS. If you boot up with the sleave
empty, then insert the drive. Down you go. SATA = ACHI or RAID,
don't matter.

So you do have some cage into which to slide the drive into a "sleave"
(sleeve) in your PC. So the drives do work when connected to a SATA
port on starting the OS. It is only when when the OS is already loaded
and you try to hotswap the drives that problems arise. Does that only
occur with the drives you removed from the CRU caddy or with drives from
anywhere using the "sleave"?

Here's a pick of the connectors on the SATA drive:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/9Su7n.png

Notice some foils are longer than others, namely Select and Reset on the
data connector and 3.3V and Ground. When inserting a hotswapped drive,
power must be first applied to the drive so its logic can then signal
the SATA controller on the mobo. When removing a hotswapped drive, the
power has to remain at the drive so the controller can see the
disconnect of the data lines before the drive loses power. While there
is a difference in the length of the appropriate power and data foils,
it's pretty small.

Although users tend to use interchange the terms hotplug and hotswap,
those are not the same. SATA support hotplug. Your chipset probably
does, too. Whether the BIOS supports hotswap is another matter.
Hotswap storage is hotpluggable. Hotpluggable storage is not
necessarily hotswappable. With hotplug, the drive becomes ready but may
not be automatically recognized by the OS so you have to use Device
Management to do a rescan. With hotswap, the drive would need to be
part of a volume in a RAID configuration.

Hotpluggable devices are those you can remove and install while the host
is still running. The hardware will cooperate with the hotpluggage
device. That does not preclude the necessity of admin tasks before or
after installing a hotpluggable drive to make it usable (i.e.,
mounting).

With RAID, yes, you can have hotswappable drives but you still have to
use the RAID manager to remove and add the drives.

USB is an announced hotswap and polled protocol. There is detection in
the OS of the new device and the handshaking identifies the device.
SATA supports hotplug but that doesn't mean the hardware announces a
change in configuration to the OS. Something in the OS, like a driver,
would need to poll for a device reconfiguration for a hotplugged device.

The SATA controller in the mobo's chipset supports hotplugging. I don't
believe that requires notification to the OS so the admin has to do more
work to make usable the hotplugged device, like mounting it. That's not
the same as hotswapping which has a lot more considerations to take into
account. See:

http://www.analog.com/en/analog-dial...-hot-swap.html

Something MORE (than the SATA controller chip or inbuilt functionality
in the mobo chipset) must be added to support hotswapping. I don't what
is the "sleave" you were using in the desktop host to facilitate a
removable drive.

On 09/03/2017 12:46 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

The CRU caddies can be dropped from six feet on to concrete.

"TrayFree bays make adding drives effortless. It's as easy as opening
the door, sliding the drive in, and closing the door. No screws, no
trays. It just works."

And each time you add to the insertion rate of the drive. When the
connectors wear out you are screwed.

Ever wonder why the stinking SATA cables inside yo case break all
the time? It is because they are only rated for something like
five insertions. My guess, it is on purpose so that the cable
busts well before the connectors on the drive break.

So the case goes with the drive when removed from the cage. Okay but I
don't how that differs from removing the drive from a trayless cage and
putting the drive into a transport case to effect the same protection.

This is because once the drive is secured into the carriage, it
never gets moved again. The connector on the back of the carriage
that connects to the frame is the one that gets all the wear and tear.
And it is rated for a massive amount of insertions.


https://www.cru-inc.com/products/rtx...-3q/?tab=specs

Don't see anything there are about drop protection.

I asked years ago.

I looked at the
online manual and all it says about drive installation is "Slide the
drive in from the front of the carrier.". The drive attaches to a
"drive carrier" using screws. Well, that is not you using
shock-absorbing mounts to install the drive inside the case. You attach
a hard carrier onto the drive using hard screws and the drive+carrier
slides on hard rails to push onto connectors and use the door to keep
the drive in place. I see no mention in the warranty about them
covering the drive when dropped inside their case.

The case is hard. No mention of shock-absorbing mounts for the drive,
and nothing else soft to absorb shock inside the case, so the drive is
hardfixed to a carrier that is pressed against the hard case. Whatever
shock the case incurs is transferred to the drive.

You are missing something. Some of the shock is absorbed by the carriage.
The rest is spread out between the rest of the frame and the four
screws connecting the drive to the carriage. And it is an even shock,
not a "point impact". To the force is far more spread out.

not
on your life will I let a orangutan grab one of these things
after walking across a carpet and toss it around his truck cab.
These drives have exposed circuitry to shock the dickens out of.

Well, we don't need anything in the lab to exchange bare drives. Never
needed anything a home, either, when using a drive dock. However, in
your scenario, I did mention using a carry case that does provide some
shock absorption and you can use an anti-static bag.

You only issue would be wearing out connectors on the drives
that are not rated for a lot of insertions.

Oh, and you thought there were no connectors on the CRU case?

The drive connects once to the connector in the carriage. The
connector on the back of the carriage in rated for a lot
of insertions. The carriage connect on the also high
insertion rate connector on the inside of the frame. The back
of the frame has a SATA data and a SATA power connector.

No magic involved. Just well thought out engineering.

In the trayless cages we've used, you don't push the drive onto the
connectors by pushing on the drive or remove the drive by yanking on it.
There are levers that you push or pull plus the cage keeps the
connectors in alignment.

The alignment help, but you are still doing multiple insertions
with a connector that is not designed for that. You will eventually
wear them out.


You be afraid if you want. We've been using these trayless hotswap
cages with bare drives for many years for hundreds of drives. We have
to test on a base OS install, OS with updates, OS at various service
pack levels, OS with various common apps installed, etc.

With you handling the drives, I would not have much of an issue.
Then again, you are not paid in bananas.

T wrote:

On 09/03/2017 12:46 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

The CRU caddies can be dropped from six feet on to concrete.

"TrayFree bays make adding drives effortless. It's as easy as opening
the door, sliding the drive in, and closing the door. No screws, no
trays. It just works."

And each time you add to the insertion rate of the drive. When the
connectors wear out you are screwed.

Ever wonder why the stinking SATA cables inside yo case break all
the time? It is because they are only rated for something like
five insertions. My guess, it is on purpose so that the cable
busts well before the connectors on the drive break.

So the case goes with the drive when removed from the cage. Okay but I
don't how that differs from removing the drive from a trayless cage and
putting the drive into a transport case to effect the same protection.

This is because once the drive is secured into the carriage, it
never gets moved again. The connector on the back of the carriage
that connects to the frame is the one that gets all the wear and tear.
And it is rated for a massive amount of insertions.

https://www.cru-inc.com/products/rtx...-3q/?tab=specs

Don't see anything there are about drop protection.

I asked years ago.

I looked at the
online manual and all it says about drive installation is "Slide the
drive in from the front of the carrier.". The drive attaches to a
"drive carrier" using screws. Well, that is not you using
shock-absorbing mounts to install the drive inside the case. You attach
a hard carrier onto the drive using hard screws and the drive+carrier
slides on hard rails to push onto connectors and use the door to keep
the drive in place. I see no mention in the warranty about them
covering the drive when dropped inside their case.

The case is hard. No mention of shock-absorbing mounts for the drive,
and nothing else soft to absorb shock inside the case, so the drive is
hardfixed to a carrier that is pressed against the hard case. Whatever
shock the case incurs is transferred to the drive.

You are missing something. Some of the shock is absorbed by the carriage.
The rest is spread out between the rest of the frame and the four
screws connecting the drive to the carriage. And it is an even shock,
not a "point impact". To the force is far more spread out.

not
on your life will I let a orangutan grab one of these things
after walking across a carpet and toss it around his truck cab.
These drives have exposed circuitry to shock the dickens out of.

Well, we don't need anything in the lab to exchange bare drives. Never
needed anything a home, either, when using a drive dock. However, in
your scenario, I did mention using a carry case that does provide some
shock absorption and you can use an anti-static bag.

You only issue would be wearing out connectors on the drives
that are not rated for a lot of insertions.

Oh, and you thought there were no connectors on the CRU case?

The drive connects once to the connector in the carriage. The
connector on the back of the carriage in rated for a lot
of insertions. The carriage connect on the also high
insertion rate connector on the inside of the frame. The back
of the frame has a SATA data and a SATA power connector.

No magic involved. Just well thought out engineering.

In the trayless cages we've used, you don't push the drive onto the
connectors by pushing on the drive or remove the drive by yanking on it.
There are levers that you push or pull plus the cage keeps the
connectors in alignment.

The alignment help, but you are still doing multiple insertions
with a connector that is not designed for that. You will eventually
wear them out.


You be afraid if you want. We've been using these trayless hotswap
cages with bare drives for many years for hundreds of drives. We have
to test on a base OS install, OS with updates, OS at various service
pack levels, OS with various common apps installed, etc.

With you handling the drives, I would not have much of an issue.
Then again, you are not paid in bananas.

Back to your inquiry, I have not yet found any desktop PC drive cages
that go into an external drive bay that use USB for signal and power.
So I haven't bothered enlarging a search (that found nothing) to see
which of those would use a caddy surround for the drive.

I haven't seen what you describe. With the bay-installed cage, it has a
backplane with some protection circuitry to handle load changes from
swapping in/out a drive but the backplane connects to a SATA port on the
motherboard.

Probably best to figure out why those extracted drives won't work on a
SATA port on mobo (since the drives themselves have SATA connectors).

If the user is going to constantly and repeatedly connect and disconnect
the drive and since USB3 is the preferred connection interface and you
want the drive enclosed, why won't an external USB3 drive enclosure
work? It doesn't have to be as fat and long as the CRU external USB3
enclosure to which you linked if, for example, it's a slow RPM drive so
it doesn't heat up much. I have used ventilated USB enclosures for WDC
black drives. The all-metal enclosures just aren't good enough a
thermal transfer medium to let the drive stay cool enough. If you
eliminate the need for a fan, USB3 external enclosures aren't very big.

If you are sure that the user will always use the external drive
enclosure on USB3 ports on the host then the enclosure doesn't need room
for a power supply.

You obviously don't trust your gorilla customer to be removing or
inserting the drive in a hotswap caddy, so why won't an external
enclosure work?

A USB3 external enclosure without a fan or power supply for a 5400 RPM
drive, especially if configured for power-save, would be just as
convenient as the customer having to tote around the drive inside a
different enclosure (the USB caddy you're looking for). In fact, this
customer could use the drive in USB3 external enclosure on different
computers. After all, why is this gorilla, er, customer toting around
the drive? If he wants to use it elsewhere then your hotswap caddy
won't be usable anywhere else and defeats the intent of the customer.
If they are toting to off-site storage for archiving backups, why would
this customer want to be limited to only one desktop with the matching
cage for the caddied drive?

Lots of desktops, laptops, netbooks, etc. have USB3 ports. A caddied
drive is no easier to transport or store than the same drive in a USB3
external enclosure. With the caddy+cage for hotswap, the customer is
restricted to one host. If the intent is to allow hotswap of drives in
a RAID config, your arguments about connector longevity fly out the
window as fail(ed|ing) drives are not replaced that often (unless you're
a huge data service, like Backblaze, with thousands of drives in
redundant RAID farms which I doubt is true for your customer).

On 09/01/2017 06:23 PM, T wrote:
Hi All,

Anyone know of a hot swap drive carriage, like this one

https://www.cru-inc.com/products/rtx/rtx110-3q/

only internal and supports USB3?

Many thanks,
-T

Follow up. Ha! Cru had one all alone. Their documentation
is just a real stinker.

https://www.cru-inc.com/products/dat...ort-dp25-3sjr/

On 09/03/2017 11:30 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

On 09/03/2017 12:46 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

The CRU caddies can be dropped from six feet on to concrete.

"TrayFree bays make adding drives effortless. It's as easy as opening
the door, sliding the drive in, and closing the door. No screws, no
trays. It just works."

And each time you add to the insertion rate of the drive. When the
connectors wear out you are screwed.

Ever wonder why the stinking SATA cables inside yo case break all
the time? It is because they are only rated for something like
five insertions. My guess, it is on purpose so that the cable
busts well before the connectors on the drive break.

So the case goes with the drive when removed from the cage. Okay but I
don't how that differs from removing the drive from a trayless cage and
putting the drive into a transport case to effect the same protection.

This is because once the drive is secured into the carriage, it
never gets moved again. The connector on the back of the carriage
that connects to the frame is the one that gets all the wear and tear.
And it is rated for a massive amount of insertions.

https://www.cru-inc.com/products/rtx...-3q/?tab=specs

Don't see anything there are about drop protection.

I asked years ago.

I looked at the
online manual and all it says about drive installation is "Slide the
drive in from the front of the carrier.". The drive attaches to a
"drive carrier" using screws. Well, that is not you using
shock-absorbing mounts to install the drive inside the case. You attach
a hard carrier onto the drive using hard screws and the drive+carrier
slides on hard rails to push onto connectors and use the door to keep
the drive in place. I see no mention in the warranty about them
covering the drive when dropped inside their case.

The case is hard. No mention of shock-absorbing mounts for the drive,
and nothing else soft to absorb shock inside the case, so the drive is
hardfixed to a carrier that is pressed against the hard case. Whatever
shock the case incurs is transferred to the drive.

You are missing something. Some of the shock is absorbed by the carriage.
The rest is spread out between the rest of the frame and the four
screws connecting the drive to the carriage. And it is an even shock,
not a "point impact". To the force is far more spread out.

not
on your life will I let a orangutan grab one of these things
after walking across a carpet and toss it around his truck cab.
These drives have exposed circuitry to shock the dickens out of.

Well, we don't need anything in the lab to exchange bare drives. Never
needed anything a home, either, when using a drive dock. However, in
your scenario, I did mention using a carry case that does provide some
shock absorption and you can use an anti-static bag.

You only issue would be wearing out connectors on the drives
that are not rated for a lot of insertions.

Oh, and you thought there were no connectors on the CRU case?

The drive connects once to the connector in the carriage. The
connector on the back of the carriage in rated for a lot
of insertions. The carriage connect on the also high
insertion rate connector on the inside of the frame. The back
of the frame has a SATA data and a SATA power connector.

No magic involved. Just well thought out engineering.

In the trayless cages we've used, you don't push the drive onto the
connectors by pushing on the drive or remove the drive by yanking on it.
There are levers that you push or pull plus the cage keeps the
connectors in alignment.

The alignment help, but you are still doing multiple insertions
with a connector that is not designed for that. You will eventually
wear them out.


You be afraid if you want. We've been using these trayless hotswap
cages with bare drives for many years for hundreds of drives. We have
to test on a base OS install, OS with updates, OS at various service
pack levels, OS with various common apps installed, etc.

With you handling the drives, I would not have much of an issue.
Then again, you are not paid in bananas.

Back to your inquiry, I have not yet found any desktop PC drive cages
that go into an external drive bay that use USB for signal and power.
So I haven't bothered enlarging a search (that found nothing) to see
which of those would use a caddy surround for the drive.

I haven't seen what you describe. With the bay-installed cage, it has a
backplane with some protection circuitry to handle load changes from
swapping in/out a drive but the backplane connects to a SATA port on the
motherboard.

Probably best to figure out why those extracted drives won't work on a
SATA port on mobo (since the drives themselves have SATA connectors).

If the user is going to constantly and repeatedly connect and disconnect
the drive and since USB3 is the preferred connection interface and you
want the drive enclosed, why won't an external USB3 drive enclosure
work? It doesn't have to be as fat and long as the CRU external USB3
enclosure to which you linked if, for example, it's a slow RPM drive so
it doesn't heat up much. I have used ventilated USB enclosures for WDC
black drives. The all-metal enclosures just aren't good enough a
thermal transfer medium to let the drive stay cool enough. If you
eliminate the need for a fan, USB3 external enclosures aren't very big.

If you are sure that the user will always use the external drive
enclosure on USB3 ports on the host then the enclosure doesn't need room
for a power supply.

You obviously don't trust your gorilla customer to be removing or
inserting the drive in a hotswap caddy, so why won't an external
enclosure work?

A USB3 external enclosure without a fan or power supply for a 5400 RPM
drive, especially if configured for power-save, would be just as
convenient as the customer having to tote around the drive inside a
different enclosure (the USB caddy you're looking for). In fact, this
customer could use the drive in USB3 external enclosure on different
computers. After all, why is this gorilla, er, customer toting around
the drive? If he wants to use it elsewhere then your hotswap caddy
won't be usable anywhere else and defeats the intent of the customer.
If they are toting to off-site storage for archiving backups, why would
this customer want to be limited to only one desktop with the matching
cage for the caddied drive?

Lots of desktops, laptops, netbooks, etc. have USB3 ports. A caddied
drive is no easier to transport or store than the same drive in a USB3
external enclosure. With the caddy+cage for hotswap, the customer is
restricted to one host. If the intent is to allow hotswap of drives in
a RAID config, your arguments about connector longevity fly out the
window as fail(ed|ing) drives are not replaced that often (unless you're
a huge data service, like Backblaze, with thousands of drives in
redundant RAID farms which I doubt is true for your customer).


Hi Vanguard,

Found what I was looking for. See my follow up post.
Thank you for all the help!

-T

p.s. this is not a workstation