Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

John Doe wrote:
Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
John Doe wrote:
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote:

When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a
file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it
to do?
It is instantaneous for some programs. Just depends on the
program. Dragon NaturallySpeaking takes a while to close,
because it is a complex program.
I fail to see why even a very complex program takes a long time
to stop doing things. Stopping something takes no time at all.
The power switch works well.

But a power switch doesn't do resource management.

Or, take down resources in an orderly manner (typically single
threaded).

This is not a problem, but... Sometimes Dragon NaturallySpeaking does
not even completely shut down. Have not figured out why. I have a
batch file that helps shut it down.

Could be worse. The last time Windows froze was at least months ago.
Used to be several times per day when I was rough on it. You know,
like deleting files that were unnecessary, before Microsoft decided to
stop letting me delete files that I thought were unnecessary...
Nowadays I never bother looking for those files. Plenty of storage
space. And now my primary and secondary drives are almost fast as RAM!

The original poster is complaining about first world problems.

Well, they're problems you can research for yourself,
if you want to. Procmon from Sysinternals.com doesn't
see everything, but it's easy to use. We don't know
the name of the game that is slow to exit, and there
might already be comments about it somewhere. A job
for Google.

For me, the issue is, the number of times I've looked
at the Procmon output and exclaimed "What the hell is
it doing!!!". You'll see some pretty funky stuff in there.
That's part of the fun.

Paul

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]

Explain to me why stopping using a resource should take time.

There's this saying about a horse and water, ...

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]
I've not seen one single answer that explains why it takes time to
stop doing something.

s/seen/understood/

On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:14:01 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]
I've not seen one single answer that explains why it takes time to
stop doing something.

s/seen/understood/

I only understand English punctuation.

On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:14:01 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]

Explain to me why stopping using a resource should take time.

There's this saying about a horse and water, ...

Well nobody's tried.

On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:37:09 +0100, John Doe wrote:

Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
John Doe wrote:
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote:

When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a
file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it
to do?

It is instantaneous for some programs. Just depends on the
program. Dragon NaturallySpeaking takes a while to close,
because it is a complex program.

I fail to see why even a very complex program takes a long time
to stop doing things. Stopping something takes no time at all.

The power switch works well.

But a power switch doesn't do resource management.

Or, take down resources in an orderly manner (typically single
threaded).

This is not a problem, but... Sometimes Dragon NaturallySpeaking does
not even completely shut down. Have not figured out why. I have a
batch file that helps shut it down.

Could be worse. The last time Windows froze was at least months ago.
Used to be several times per day when I was rough on it. You know,
like deleting files that were unnecessary, before Microsoft decided to
stop letting me delete files that I thought were unnecessary...
Nowadays I never bother looking for those files. Plenty of storage
space. And now my primary and secondary drives are almost fast as RAM!

The original poster is complaining about first world problems.

I assume you mean third.,

So it's ok to write ****ty code as long as everyone has a really powerful computer? Why not just make cars all get one mile to the gallon as everyone can afford loads of gas, right?

On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 21:36:47 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:40:16 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 19:05:52 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 18:27:24 +0100, Wolf K wrote:

On 2018-10-17 11:34, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]

I fail to see why even a very complex program takes a long time to stop
doing things. Stopping something takes no time at all.
[...]

HDD activity.

Doing what exactly? I've already said the game was saved. Nothing
needs to be recorded to disk AT ALL.

Sigh! As has been said umpteen times: *Freeing* resources, whose
content or/and accounting is - fully or partially - on disk.

Give it a rest, will you!? This - operating system design - is yet
another area you obviously know little to nothing about.

You're talking absolute ****ing bull****.

Sure we do! BTW, exactly how much OS code, including memory management
code, did *you* write!? And for how many decades?

I use common sense, which you have none of.

Your thingy may be "common", but it's no "sense" in any shape or form.

What is this thingy you're referring to?

Freeing a resource takes
absolutely ZERO time. The memory my game was in is now empty.

Did you look up virtual memory management? Did you understand it,
*any* of it!?

Explain to me how it takes time to delete RAM.

Let's first solve brexit, climate change, wars the world over, etc..
Much easier than explaining operating system design to *you*.

Those things don't need solving. Brexit should take place instantly, no more Europe. Climate change is in a fantasy world of treehuggers. Who cares about wars in other countries full of religious nuts?

The memory my game was in is now empty. It
doesn't have to be filled to exit the game.

Exactly *which* part of "on disk" didn't you understand? Exactly
*which* part of "accounting" didn't you understand?

The game isn't on disk, it's in memory. I closed the game. That
memory can be ignored. Those addressees can be marked as empty in no
time at all. The OTHER programs that I wasn't previously using will
have to be put from page file back into memory WHEN I USE THEM, not
before.

[Rewind/repeat:]

Did you look up virtual memory management? Did you understand it,
*any* of it!?

[End rewind/repeat.]

Stopping using it take no time, simple. The RAM is just free when I exit the game. The time would only be taken when I need another program put back in from the page file.

you one of the 50% of the population with a 2 digit IQ?

Typical response of a pathetic, ignorant, clueless, stupid, obnoxious,
pompous, chest-thumping, delusional, ****!

No, I'm one of those with a 3 digit IQ. You lot should be killed right now.

Oh deary, yet another 'Arlen'-clone! Why are the ones who *claim* high
intelligence often (always) so utterly stupid (stupid as in being unable
to learn)!?

No idea who Arlen is. And I don't claim it I have it.

You lot
really should be thrown off a cliff.

Nah, no need, you lot are already doing that to yourselves.

We'll survive, the clueless ****s will all die when something
difficult arrives.

Contradiction in terms.

How so?

Anyway, I'm out of here. Booked myself in for a few root canal
procedures. *Much* more fun!

Try cleaning your teeth properly.

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:14:01 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]
I've not seen one single answer that explains why it takes time to
stop doing something.

s/seen/understood/

I only understand English punctuation.

s/only/don't/
s/English punctuation/anything

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:14:01 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]

Explain to me why stopping using a resource should take time.

There's this saying about a horse and water, ...

Well nobody's tried.

The responses in this thread are best viewed with a computer and your
eyes open.

Frank Slootweg wrote:
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:14:01 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]
I've not seen one single answer that explains why it takes time to
stop doing something.

s/seen/understood/

I only understand English punctuation.

s/only/don't/
s/English punctuation/anything


information | JSW /dev/null

Sorry, couldn't resist.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 22:41:01 +0100, Jonathan N. Little wrote:

Frank Slootweg wrote:
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:14:01 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]
I've not seen one single answer that explains why it takes time to
stop doing something.

s/seen/understood/

I only understand English punctuation.

s/only/don't/
s/English punctuation/anything


information | JSW /dev/null

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Of for ****'s sake grow up you ****ing pathetic geeks.

On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:35:39 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:14:01 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]

Explain to me why stopping using a resource should take time.

There's this saying about a horse and water, ...

Well nobody's tried.

The responses in this thread are best viewed with a computer and your
eyes open.

Did that, but unfortunately the authors of the posts were lacking in intelligence.

On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:58:53 +0100, Wolf K wrote:

On 2018-10-17 14:56, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 19:28:41 +0100, Wolf K wrote:

On 2018-10-17 14:19, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 19:05:52 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 18:27:24 +0100, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2018-10-17 11:34, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]

I fail to see why even a very complex program takes a long time to
stop
doing things. Stopping something takes no time at all.
[...]

HDD activity.

Doing what exactly? I've already said the game was saved. Nothing
needs to be recorded to disk AT ALL.

Page file management.

Sigh! As has been said umpteen times: *Freeing* resources, whose
content or/and accounting is - fully or partially - on disk.

Give it a rest, will you!? This - operating system design - is yet
another area you obviously know little to nothing about.

You're talking absolute ****ing bull****. Freeing a resource takes
absolutely ZERO time. The memory my game was in is now empty. It
doesn't have to be filled to exit the game. It only has to be filled
when I start using another program which was previously paged. Are you
one of the 50% of the population with a 2 digit IQ? You lot really
should be thrown off a cliff.

What part of "HDD activity" don't you understand?

Oops, my mistake: you've already shown you don't understand what a page
file is.

I certainly do. It's OTHER programs which were paged out of memory so
my game could be in memory. Those do not need to be unpaged until they
are required to be used.

True, but incomplete understanding. Parts of the OS

But if I alt-tab to the OS to say use a browser for a few minutes, there's no delay.

and as well as parts
of your game#

So what? Everything relating to the now closed game can just be marked as no longer in use.

could be paged out. Depends on how much RAM you have and on
the game's architecture (see next para). For gaming, you should have at
least 4GB.

It has 4GB. Although it's cheap **** 2nd hand machine I happened to acquire. I normally insist on at least 8GB and preferably 16GB when building a machine, and if possible max out the motherboard to 32/64GB etc.

(Data point importance of RAM: My wife's previous laptop
had 1GB, slow as a dog, even with only one program running. I maxed RAM
to 2Gb, it was like a new machine.)

2GB isn't fast unless running Windows 3.

Another possibility is that the game replaced part(s) of the OS to
improve hardware access. If so, reinstalling the original *.dll
files/etc into RAM and/or onto the system partition could take extra
time: multiple HDD accesses.

Perhaps, but not 2-3 minutes.

In any case, the game-ending process obviously does a lot of things.
You've been told a number of possible and more or less probable
scenarios. If you haven't yet sussed that this means a definitive answer
is impossible without reading the game's code, well, that's your
problem. Get over it.

All I did was point out that Electronic Arts haven't a ****ing clue as to how to write a game.

An attention whore...

--
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" no none.com wrote:

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From: "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" no none.com
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Subject: Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
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On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:37:09 +0100, John Doe always.look message.header wrote:

Paul nospam needed.invalid wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
John Doe always.look message.header wrote:
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" no none.com wrote:

When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a
file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it
to do?

It is instantaneous for some programs. Just depends on the
program. Dragon NaturallySpeaking takes a while to close,
because it is a complex program.

I fail to see why even a very complex program takes a long time
to stop doing things. Stopping something takes no time at all.

The power switch works well.

But a power switch doesn't do resource management.

Or, take down resources in an orderly manner (typically single
threaded).

This is not a problem, but... Sometimes Dragon NaturallySpeaking does
not even completely shut down. Have not figured out why. I have a
batch file that helps shut it down.

Could be worse. The last time Windows froze was at least months ago.
Used to be several times per day when I was rough on it. You know,
like deleting files that were unnecessary, before Microsoft decided to
stop letting me delete files that I thought were unnecessary...
Nowadays I never bother looking for those files. Plenty of storage
space. And now my primary and secondary drives are almost fast as RAM!

The original poster is complaining about first world problems.

I assume you mean third.,

So it's ok to write ****ty code as long as everyone has a really powerful computer? Why not just make cars all get one mile to the gallon as everyone can afford loads of gas, right?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 00:29:40 +0100, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife, tweeted:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:58:53 +0100, Wolf K wrote:


[Snip]

In any case, the game-ending process obviously does a lot of things.
You've been told a number of possible and more or less probable
scenarios. If you haven't yet sussed that this means a definitive answer
is impossible without reading the game's code, well, that's your
problem. Get over it.

All I did was point out that Electronic Arts haven't a ****ing clue as to how to write a game.

Send EA a box of clues for Christmas.
I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

--
Do not write below this line
____________________________