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#1
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Updating a clone without recloning?
I'm wondering if it is possible to update a bootable clone with some file
update copying, but without potentially impacting it's "bootability". Let me explain: Suppose we make a clone of the main system drive, which may or may not have several partitions, but never actually plug it in as the boot drive to "initialize" it. (This step is apparently not *always* required with all cloning programs (and apparently not required using Acronis to make the clone). OK. So that's fine and dandy so far. And the clone is just sitting on the shelf as a backup. Now let's suppose we just want to update it with just a few updated personal and non system files, rather than go through the whole cloning process all over again (which takes considerable time) IF we now connect this cloned drive as an external drive (through either USB or SATA connectors) and then boot up in windows with it in (in addition to the normal boot drive), will that mess anythin up, like its future bootability (since the first time its being used here is when it is connected as an external secondary drive (and is NOT the boot drive)? That's the key question here. Because if doing so will mess up the clone, then one can't simply update the clone, as I've suggested (and one would always have to make a brand new clone). I think this whole thing has to do with the active partition byte being set correctly, and not being potentially reset, by doing such a thing. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Or can clarify this for me? |
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#2
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Updating a clone without recloning?
"Bill in Co" wrote in message
m... I'm wondering if it is possible to update a bootable clone with some file update copying, but without potentially impacting it's "bootability". Let me explain: Suppose we make a clone of the main system drive, which may or may not have several partitions, but never actually plug it in as the boot drive to "initialize" it. (This step is apparently not *always* required with all cloning programs (and apparently not required using Acronis to make the clone). OK. So that's fine and dandy so far. And the clone is just sitting on the shelf as a backup. Now let's suppose we just want to update it with just a few updated personal and non system files, rather than go through the whole cloning process all over again (which takes considerable time) IF we now connect this cloned drive as an external drive (through either USB or SATA connectors) and then boot up in windows with it in (in addition to the normal boot drive), will that mess anythin up, like its future bootability (since the first time its being used here is when it is connected as an external secondary drive (and is NOT the boot drive)? That's the key question here. Because if doing so will mess up the clone, then one can't simply update the clone, as I've suggested (and one would always have to make a brand new clone). I think this whole thing has to do with the active partition byte being set correctly, and not being potentially reset, by doing such a thing. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Or can clarify this for me? As you mentioned, the drive (actually a partition on the drive) has to be marked Active in order to boot. Usually when you make a clone, you are replacing your old drive and at the beginning of the cloning operation, so the clone is marked Active so it can boot. As long as all you are adding or replacing are data files.... documents, pictures and so forth, not system or program files... this will not affect the ability of the clone to boot. Attaching the clone to your computer as an external USB or eSata drive (or as an internal second drive for that matter) won't change the Active setting, any more than attaching a bootable drive from another computer externally, or internally as a second or slave drive, will affect its Active setting. Just make sure if it is connected via USB or eSATA that you do NOT have those interfaces selected in the BIOS setup as the first boot device or before the internal hard drive, so they don't try to boot your system. In other words, make sure your BIOS boot order is either hard drive first, or CD/DVD first, hard drive second, and that USB and eSATA are not listed or are listed after the hard drive. In the case of a cloned drive being connected as an internal drive (PATA or SATA), make sure the BIOS is still set to boot from your Primary hard drive, not the second or slave drive. Connecting an Active bootable drive from another computer to my computer is something I do often, to copy some data off the drive for someone, or to scan for malware on the drive while it is not booted. Your clone should act the same way.... it is a bootable drive. -- Glen Ventura MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009 CompTIA A+ |
#3
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Updating a clone without recloning?
"glee" wrote in message
... As you mentioned, the drive (actually a partition on the drive) has to be marked Active in order to boot. Usually when you make a clone, you are replacing your old drive and at the beginning of the cloning operation, so the clone is marked Active so it can boot. That should read: As you mentioned, the drive (actually a partition on the drive) has to be marked Active in order to boot. Usually when you make a clone, you are replacing your old drive, and at the beginning of the cloning operation may be asked if you are switching the drives, so the clone is marked Active so it can boot. -- Glen Ventura MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009 CompTIA A+ |
#4
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Updating a clone without recloning?
glee wrote:
"Bill in Co" wrote in message m... I'm wondering if it is possible to update a bootable clone with some file update copying, but without potentially impacting it's "bootability". Let me explain: Suppose we make a clone of the main system drive, which may or may not have several partitions, but never actually plug it in as the boot drive to "initialize" it. (This step is apparently not *always* required with all cloning programs (and apparently not required using Acronis to make the clone). OK. So that's fine and dandy so far. And the clone is just sitting on the shelf as a backup. Now let's suppose we just want to update it with just a few updated personal and non system files, rather than go through the whole cloning process all over again (which takes considerable time) IF we now connect this cloned drive as an external drive (through either USB or SATA connectors) and then boot up in windows with it in (in addition to the normal boot drive), will that mess anythin up, like its future bootability (since the first time its being used here is when it is connected as an external secondary drive (and is NOT the boot drive)? That's the key question here. Because if doing so will mess up the clone, then one can't simply update the clone, as I've suggested (and one would always have to make a brand new clone). I think this whole thing has to do with the active partition byte being set correctly, and not being potentially reset, by doing such a thing. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Or can clarify this for me? copied in your corrected text below: As you mentioned, the drive (actually a partition on the drive) has to be marked Active in order to boot. Usually when you make a clone, you are replacing your old drive, and at the beginning of the cloning operation may be asked if you are switching the drives, so the clone is marked Active so it can boot. As long as all you are adding or replacing are data files.... documents, pictures and so forth, not system or program files... this will not affect the ability of the clone to boot. Well, when I made the clone with Acronis, I don't remember being asked if I'd be switching the drives, but I'm pretty sure it set the flag, so that if and when it was ever substituted, the flag would already be set and the clone would be ready to go. (Otherwise I don't think it could ever work (i.e. to replace the original and yet be bootable). What I do remember is after I made the clone, it finished the operation and prompted to shut down the system (which implies it didn't want both connected at a first time reboot, which I guess makes sense). More below... Attaching the clone to your computer as an external USB or eSata drive (or as an internal second drive for that matter) won't change the Active setting, any more than attaching a bootable drive from another computer externally, or internally as a second or slave drive, will affect its Active setting. That is good to know! Just make sure if it is connected via USB or eSATA that you do NOT have those interfaces selected in the BIOS setup as the first boot device or before the internal hard drive, so they don't try to boot your system. In other words, make sure your BIOS boot order is either hard drive first, or CD/DVD first, hard drive second, and that USB and eSATA are not listed or are listed after the hard drive. In the case of a cloned drive being connected as an internal drive (PATA or SATA), make sure the BIOS is still set to boot from your Primary hard drive, not the second or slave drive. I will have to check this. Hopefully it is as you said. Heck, it sure SHOULD be that way! (why would it ever be reversed?) Connecting an Active bootable drive from another computer to my computer is something I do often, to copy some data off the drive for someone, or to scan for malware on the drive while it is not booted. Your clone should act the same way.... it is a bootable drive. OK, so if I understand this Glen, the ONLY time there might (or would) be a problem is IF the system ever assumed that the connected clone was THE drive to boot up on at first boot (i.e. as the first bootable BIOS device). And that THAT is the danger. But then again, I don't see how that could ever happen (even with an externally connected bootable drive), since normally the internal drives would be listed as first priority in BIOS, right? Wouldn't it be a pretty weird BIOS sequence to attempt to boot from an external drive, assuming the main internal one (bootable) was already in there? That seems to me to be a backwards sequence for BIOS to even consider, but maybe it can happen? However, IF the main bootable drive weren't also in the computer at the time the other bootable external clone drive was connected, then I can see a problem arising, if I understand this correctly. |
#5
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Updating a clone without recloning?
"Bill in Co" wrote in message news glee wrote: "Bill in Co" wrote in message m... I'm wondering if it is possible to update a bootable clone with some file update copying, but without potentially impacting it's "bootability". Let me explain: Suppose we make a clone of the main system drive, which may or may not have several partitions, but never actually plug it in as the boot drive to "initialize" it. (This step is apparently not *always* required with all cloning programs (and apparently not required using Acronis to make the clone). OK. So that's fine and dandy so far. And the clone is just sitting on the shelf as a backup. Now let's suppose we just want to update it with just a few updated personal and non system files, rather than go through the whole cloning process all over again (which takes considerable time) IF we now connect this cloned drive as an external drive (through either USB or SATA connectors) and then boot up in windows with it in (in addition to the normal boot drive), will that mess anythin up, like its future bootability (since the first time its being used here is when it is connected as an external secondary drive (and is NOT the boot drive)? That's the key question here. Because if doing so will mess up the clone, then one can't simply update the clone, as I've suggested (and one would always have to make a brand new clone). I think this whole thing has to do with the active partition byte being set correctly, and not being potentially reset, by doing such a thing. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Or can clarify this for me? copied in your corrected text below: As you mentioned, the drive (actually a partition on the drive) has to be marked Active in order to boot. Usually when you make a clone, you are replacing your old drive, and at the beginning of the cloning operation may be asked if you are switching the drives, so the clone is marked Active so it can boot. As long as all you are adding or replacing are data files.... documents, pictures and so forth, not system or program files... this will not affect the ability of the clone to boot. Well, when I made the clone with Acronis, I don't remember being asked if I'd be switching the drives, but I'm pretty sure it set the flag, so that if and when it was ever substituted, the flag would already be set and the clone would be ready to go. (Otherwise I don't think it could ever work (i.e. to replace the original and yet be bootable). What I do remember is after I made the clone, it finished the operation and prompted to shut down the system (which implies it didn't want both connected at a first time reboot, which I guess makes sense). More below... Attaching the clone to your computer as an external USB or eSata drive (or as an internal second drive for that matter) won't change the Active setting, any more than attaching a bootable drive from another computer externally, or internally as a second or slave drive, will affect its Active setting. That is good to know! Just make sure if it is connected via USB or eSATA that you do NOT have those interfaces selected in the BIOS setup as the first boot device or before the internal hard drive, so they don't try to boot your system. In other words, make sure your BIOS boot order is either hard drive first, or CD/DVD first, hard drive second, and that USB and eSATA are not listed or are listed after the hard drive. In the case of a cloned drive being connected as an internal drive (PATA or SATA), make sure the BIOS is still set to boot from your Primary hard drive, not the second or slave drive. I will have to check this. Hopefully it is as you said. Heck, it sure SHOULD be that way! (why would it ever be reversed?) Connecting an Active bootable drive from another computer to my computer is something I do often, to copy some data off the drive for someone, or to scan for malware on the drive while it is not booted. Your clone should act the same way.... it is a bootable drive. OK, so if I understand this Glen, the ONLY time there might (or would) be a problem is IF the system ever assumed that the connected clone was THE drive to boot up on at first boot (i.e. as the first bootable BIOS device). And that THAT is the danger. But then again, I don't see how that could ever happen (even with an externally connected bootable drive), since normally the internal drives would be listed as first priority in BIOS, right? Wouldn't it be a pretty weird BIOS sequence to attempt to boot from an external drive, assuming the main internal one (bootable) was already in there? That seems to me to be a backwards sequence for BIOS to even consider, but maybe it can happen? However, IF the main bootable drive weren't also in the computer at the time the other bootable external clone drive was connected, then I can see a problem arising, if I understand this correctly. Most systems I've worked on had a floppy drive (on older systems) or CD/DVD drive as the first boot device. Then the second device was usually the internal HDD. That could always be changed, and some of the options were External USB/eSATA/Firewire Device (could be a HDD or flash drive), and Boot from LAN. I would think it would be very unusual to have your internal HDD set as the the first boot device unless you set it that way. -- SC Tom |
#6
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Updating a clone without recloning?
On 6/23/2012 23:46, Bill in Co wrote:
I'm wondering if it is possible to update a bootable clone with some file update copying, but without potentially impacting it's "bootability". Let me explain: Suppose we make a clone of the main system drive, which may or may not have several partitions, but never actually plug it in as the boot drive to "initialize" it. (This step is apparently not *always* required with all cloning programs (and apparently not required using Acronis to make the clone). OK. So that's fine and dandy so far. And the clone is just sitting on the shelf as a backup. Now let's suppose we just want to update it with just a few updated personal and non system files, rather than go through the whole cloning process all over again (which takes considerable time) IF we now connect this cloned drive as an external drive (through either USB or SATA connectors) and then boot up in windows with it in (in addition to the normal boot drive), will that mess anythin up, like its future bootability (since the first time its being used here is when it is connected as an external secondary drive (and is NOT the boot drive)? That's the key question here. Because if doing so will mess up the clone, then one can't simply update the clone, as I've suggested (and one would always have to make a brand new clone). I think this whole thing has to do with the active partition byte being set correctly, and not being potentially reset, by doing such a thing. Windows doesn't mind having a partition set active on non-boot drives. However if your clone has the same disk signature as the original, to avoid conflict, Windows will change the signature of the currently non-booting clone. That in effect could render the clone unable to boot into Windows. I say "could" because it depends on how Acronis handles the disk signature when cloning. This page http://kb.acronis.com/content/6323 suggest that you have to tell Acronis specifically to copy the sig. XP will boot with a blank sig, and fix it (the sig). XP will boot with an incorrect sig, and fix that. XP will not boot if its sig matches a sig in the registry of a previously online non-booting volume. It gets even hairier for Vista and later. http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussi...8/3463572.aspx |
#7
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Updating a clone without recloning?
replies inline...
"Bill Blanton" wrote in message ng.com... On 6/23/2012 23:46, Bill in Co wrote: I'm wondering if it is possible to update a bootable clone with some file update copying, but without potentially impacting it's "bootability". Let me explain: Suppose we make a clone of the main system drive, which may or may not have several partitions, but never actually plug it in as the boot drive to "initialize" it. (This step is apparently not *always* required with all cloning programs (and apparently not required using Acronis to make the clone). OK. So that's fine and dandy so far. And the clone is just sitting on the shelf as a backup. Now let's suppose we just want to update it with just a few updated personal and non system files, rather than go through the whole cloning process all over again (which takes considerable time) IF we now connect this cloned drive as an external drive (through either USB or SATA connectors) and then boot up in windows with it in (in addition to the normal boot drive), will that mess anythin up, like its future bootability (since the first time its being used here is when it is connected as an external secondary drive (and is NOT the boot drive)? That's the key question here. Because if doing so will mess up the clone, then one can't simply update the clone, as I've suggested (and one would always have to make a brand new clone). I think this whole thing has to do with the active partition byte being set correctly, and not being potentially reset, by doing such a thing. Windows doesn't mind having a partition set active on non-boot drives. However if your clone has the same disk signature as the original, to avoid conflict, Windows will change the signature of the currently non-booting clone. That in effect could render the clone unable to boot into Windows. I say "could" because it depends on how Acronis handles the disk signature when cloning. This page http://kb.acronis.com/content/6323 suggest that you have to tell Acronis specifically to copy the sig. Yes, that option checkbox was added in True Image 10 and later... it is unchecked by default, so the signature shouldn't be a problem unless you manually checked the box. True Image 9 and earler didn't have that checkbox, and I don't know what its default behavior was regarding the signature of the clone. XP will boot with a blank sig, and fix it (the sig). XP will boot with an incorrect sig, and fix that. XP will not boot if its sig matches a sig in the registry of a previously online non-booting volume. It gets even hairier for Vista and later. http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussi...8/3463572.aspx Oh boy... woo hoo... more fun......not. Thanks for the link, Bill! -- Glen Ventura MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009 CompTIA A+ |
#8
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Updating a clone without recloning?
SC Tom wrote:
"Bill in Co" wrote in message news glee wrote: "Bill in Co" wrote in message m... I'm wondering if it is possible to update a bootable clone with some file update copying, but without potentially impacting it's "bootability". Let me explain: Suppose we make a clone of the main system drive, which may or may not have several partitions, but never actually plug it in as the boot drive to "initialize" it. (This step is apparently not *always* required with all cloning programs (and apparently not required using Acronis to make the clone). OK. So that's fine and dandy so far. And the clone is just sitting on the shelf as a backup. Now let's suppose we just want to update it with just a few updated personal and non system files, rather than go through the whole cloning process all over again (which takes considerable time) IF we now connect this cloned drive as an external drive (through either USB or SATA connectors) and then boot up in windows with it in (in addition to the normal boot drive), will that mess anythin up, like its future bootability (since the first time its being used here is when it is connected as an external secondary drive (and is NOT the boot drive)? That's the key question here. Because if doing so will mess up the clone, then one can't simply update the clone, as I've suggested (and one would always have to make a brand new clone). I think this whole thing has to do with the active partition byte being set correctly, and not being potentially reset, by doing such a thing. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Or can clarify this for me? copied in your corrected text below: As you mentioned, the drive (actually a partition on the drive) has to be marked Active in order to boot. Usually when you make a clone, you are replacing your old drive, and at the beginning of the cloning operation may be asked if you are switching the drives, so the clone is marked Active so it can boot. As long as all you are adding or replacing are data files.... documents, pictures and so forth, not system or program files... this will not affect the ability of the clone to boot. Well, when I made the clone with Acronis, I don't remember being asked if I'd be switching the drives, but I'm pretty sure it set the flag, so that if and when it was ever substituted, the flag would already be set and the clone would be ready to go. (Otherwise I don't think it could ever work (i.e. to replace the original and yet be bootable). What I do remember is after I made the clone, it finished the operation and prompted to shut down the system (which implies it didn't want both connected at a first time reboot, which I guess makes sense). More below... Attaching the clone to your computer as an external USB or eSata drive (or as an internal second drive for that matter) won't change the Active setting, any more than attaching a bootable drive from another computer externally, or internally as a second or slave drive, will affect its Active setting. That is good to know! Just make sure if it is connected via USB or eSATA that you do NOT have those interfaces selected in the BIOS setup as the first boot device or before the internal hard drive, so they don't try to boot your system. In other words, make sure your BIOS boot order is either hard drive first, or CD/DVD first, hard drive second, and that USB and eSATA are not listed or are listed after the hard drive. In the case of a cloned drive being connected as an internal drive (PATA or SATA), make sure the BIOS is still set to boot from your Primary hard drive, not the second or slave drive. I will have to check this. Hopefully it is as you said. Heck, it sure SHOULD be that way! (why would it ever be reversed?) Connecting an Active bootable drive from another computer to my computer is something I do often, to copy some data off the drive for someone, or to scan for malware on the drive while it is not booted. Your clone should act the same way.... it is a bootable drive. OK, so if I understand this Glen, the ONLY time there might (or would) be a problem is IF the system ever assumed that the connected clone was THE drive to boot up on at first boot (i.e. as the first bootable BIOS device). And that THAT is the danger. But then again, I don't see how that could ever happen (even with an externally connected bootable drive), since normally the internal drives would be listed as first priority in BIOS, right? Wouldn't it be a pretty weird BIOS sequence to attempt to boot from an external drive, assuming the main internal one (bootable) was already in there? That seems to me to be a backwards sequence for BIOS to even consider, but maybe it can happen? However, IF the main bootable drive weren't also in the computer at the time the other bootable external clone drive was connected, then I can see a problem arising, if I understand this correctly. Most systems I've worked on had a floppy drive (on older systems) or CD/DVD drive as the first boot device. Then the second device was usually the internal HDD. That could always be changed, and some of the options were External USB/eSATA/Firewire Device (could be a HDD or flash drive), and Boot from LAN. I would think it would be very unusual to have your internal HDD set as the the first boot device unless you set it that way. Ooops, you're right, and I forgot about some of that, and the reasons for it. First is indeed floppy, which makes sense. But in my case, the two internal SATA HDs are next, followed by the CD drive. I can see where it might make more sense to move the CD drive up to just follow the floppy. If I connect an eSATA drive I expect it will be picked up with the other HDs, and enumerated in the order of the ports (SATA-0, SATA-1, SATA-2, SATA-3), unless I override that. So I guess the bottom line is that if I dared to leave the system clone connected at bootup, the system would still boot up on the regular boot drive, and I'd be ok (and not affect the clone's bootability). Again, the clone was made with ATI version 11, and I never set the disk signature option. It sounds like that's a pretty dangerous option (to copy the disk signature). I'm not sure why that would even be necessary (even after reading the ATI link on this). |
#9
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Updating a clone without recloning?
Bill Blanton wrote:
On 6/23/2012 23:46, Bill in Co wrote: I'm wondering if it is possible to update a bootable clone with some file update copying, but without potentially impacting it's "bootability". Let me explain: Suppose we make a clone of the main system drive, which may or may not have several partitions, but never actually plug it in as the boot drive to "initialize" it. (This step is apparently not *always* required with all cloning programs (and apparently not required using Acronis to make the clone). OK. So that's fine and dandy so far. And the clone is just sitting on the shelf as a backup. Now let's suppose we just want to update it with just a few updated personal and non system files, rather than go through the whole cloning process all over again (which takes considerable time) IF we now connect this cloned drive as an external drive (through either USB or SATA connectors) and then boot up in windows with it in (in addition to the normal boot drive), will that mess anythin up, like its future bootability (since the first time its being used here is when it is connected as an external secondary drive (and is NOT the boot drive)? That's the key question here. Because if doing so will mess up the clone, then one can't simply update the clone, as I've suggested (and one would always have to make a brand new clone). I think this whole thing has to do with the active partition byte being set correctly, and not being potentially reset, by doing such a thing. Windows doesn't mind having a partition set active on non-boot drives. However if your clone has the same disk signature as the original, to avoid conflict, Windows will change the signature of the currently non-booting clone. That in effect could render the clone unable to boot into Windows. I say "could" because it depends on how Acronis handles the disk signature when cloning. This page http://kb.acronis.com/content/6323 suggest that you have to tell Acronis specifically to copy the sig. XP will boot with a blank sig, and fix it (the sig). XP will boot with an incorrect sig, and fix that. XP will not boot if its sig matches a sig in the registry of a previously online non-booting volume. It gets even hairier for Vista and later. http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussi...8/3463572.aspx Well, thanks for this info and the ATI link (although I think that only applies to the server edition(??) of ATI, unless you're using the newest versions of ATI, perhaps with the Plus Packs, as I can't find any mention of it in the PDF help file for my ATI Home version 11. I am not sure why one would ever want to check that checkbox (it seems a lot safer to NOT copy the disk signature). Well, ok, I found one link at ATI mentioning that (for Acronis True Image Home 2011 Plus Pack, under "Restoring to Dissimilar Hardware with Acronis Universal Restore": http://kb.acronis.com/content/13671 which says: "Leave the Recover disk signature box unchecked if you are planning to keep both the old and the new hard disks in the machine. Enable the checkbox if you are planning to use only the new disk and would like to keep Windows Restore Points." |
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Updating a clone without recloning?
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 13:53:50 -0600, "Bill in Co"
wrote: SC Tom wrote: Most systems I've worked on had a floppy drive (on older systems) or CD/DVD drive as the first boot device. Then the second device was usually the internal HDD. That could always be changed, and some of the options were External USB/eSATA/Firewire Device (could be a HDD or flash drive), and Boot from LAN. I would think it would be very unusual to have your internal HDD set as the the first boot device unless you set it that way. Ooops, you're right, and I forgot about some of that, and the reasons for it. First is indeed floppy, which makes sense. But in my case, the two internal SATA HDs are next, followed by the CD drive. I can see where it might make more sense to move the CD drive up to just follow the floppy. You don't really still have a floppy drive, do you? |
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Updating a clone without recloning?
Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 13:53:50 -0600, "Bill in Co" wrote: SC Tom wrote: Most systems I've worked on had a floppy drive (on older systems) or CD/DVD drive as the first boot device. Then the second device was usually the internal HDD. That could always be changed, and some of the options were External USB/eSATA/Firewire Device (could be a HDD or flash drive), and Boot from LAN. I would think it would be very unusual to have your internal HDD set as the the first boot device unless you set it that way. Ooops, you're right, and I forgot about some of that, and the reasons for it. First is indeed floppy, which makes sense. But in my case, the two internal SATA HDs are next, followed by the CD drive. I can see where it might make more sense to move the CD drive up to just follow the floppy. You don't really still have a floppy drive, do you? I most certainly do. And I've found it pretty indispensible, on a few occasions. What occasions? Oh, say when I needed to install a particular driver on my older Win98 computer that was designed for a floppy install (one of those self executing exe files). OR for running BING (Boot It NG or BM) in Maintenance Mode for partition work (using a bootable BING floppy), since I can't boot to a USB stick on this older Win98 computer, last time I checked. |
#12
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Updating a clone without recloning?
Regarding this discussion, I discovered one potential *advantage* of using
USB over SATA in at least one case: If you want to update some files on an external SATA drive, evidently that SATA drive isn't going to be picked up unless you booted with it already connected. Whereas with USB, after you have already booted up, if you then connect a USB drive, it will be instantly picked up in Windows, unlike SATA (at least over here). I think I recall reading something about this "hot swapable" (or not) stuff somewhere before. And that SATA normally isn't, as I recall. Perhaps the newer BIOS's or OS's have eliminated this issue. |
#13
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Updating a clone without recloning?
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 17:23:03 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote: On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 13:53:50 -0600, "Bill in Co" wrote: You don't really still have a floppy drive, do you? I don't know about him, but I do (even though I haven't used it in several years). Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP |
#14
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Updating a clone without recloning?
Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 17:23:03 -0500, Char Jackson wrote: On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 13:53:50 -0600, "Bill in Co" wrote: You don't really still have a floppy drive, do you? I don't know about him, but I do (even though I haven't used it in several years). Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Well, me being a "devout Luddite", you should know! I'll never give it up. :-) It has come in handy, however (although not particularly often, anymore) |
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Updating a clone without recloning?
"Bill in Co" wrote in message news SC Tom wrote: "Bill in Co" wrote in message news glee wrote: "Bill in Co" wrote in message m... I'm wondering if it is possible to update a bootable clone with some file update copying, but without potentially impacting it's "bootability". Let me explain: Suppose we make a clone of the main system drive, which may or may not have several partitions, but never actually plug it in as the boot drive to "initialize" it. (This step is apparently not *always* required with all cloning programs (and apparently not required using Acronis to make the clone). OK. So that's fine and dandy so far. And the clone is just sitting on the shelf as a backup. Now let's suppose we just want to update it with just a few updated personal and non system files, rather than go through the whole cloning process all over again (which takes considerable time) IF we now connect this cloned drive as an external drive (through either USB or SATA connectors) and then boot up in windows with it in (in addition to the normal boot drive), will that mess anythin up, like its future bootability (since the first time its being used here is when it is connected as an external secondary drive (and is NOT the boot drive)? That's the key question here. Because if doing so will mess up the clone, then one can't simply update the clone, as I've suggested (and one would always have to make a brand new clone). I think this whole thing has to do with the active partition byte being set correctly, and not being potentially reset, by doing such a thing. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Or can clarify this for me? copied in your corrected text below: As you mentioned, the drive (actually a partition on the drive) has to be marked Active in order to boot. Usually when you make a clone, you are replacing your old drive, and at the beginning of the cloning operation may be asked if you are switching the drives, so the clone is marked Active so it can boot. As long as all you are adding or replacing are data files.... documents, pictures and so forth, not system or program files... this will not affect the ability of the clone to boot. Well, when I made the clone with Acronis, I don't remember being asked if I'd be switching the drives, but I'm pretty sure it set the flag, so that if and when it was ever substituted, the flag would already be set and the clone would be ready to go. (Otherwise I don't think it could ever work (i.e. to replace the original and yet be bootable). What I do remember is after I made the clone, it finished the operation and prompted to shut down the system (which implies it didn't want both connected at a first time reboot, which I guess makes sense). More below... Attaching the clone to your computer as an external USB or eSata drive (or as an internal second drive for that matter) won't change the Active setting, any more than attaching a bootable drive from another computer externally, or internally as a second or slave drive, will affect its Active setting. That is good to know! Just make sure if it is connected via USB or eSATA that you do NOT have those interfaces selected in the BIOS setup as the first boot device or before the internal hard drive, so they don't try to boot your system. In other words, make sure your BIOS boot order is either hard drive first, or CD/DVD first, hard drive second, and that USB and eSATA are not listed or are listed after the hard drive. In the case of a cloned drive being connected as an internal drive (PATA or SATA), make sure the BIOS is still set to boot from your Primary hard drive, not the second or slave drive. I will have to check this. Hopefully it is as you said. Heck, it sure SHOULD be that way! (why would it ever be reversed?) Connecting an Active bootable drive from another computer to my computer is something I do often, to copy some data off the drive for someone, or to scan for malware on the drive while it is not booted. Your clone should act the same way.... it is a bootable drive. OK, so if I understand this Glen, the ONLY time there might (or would) be a problem is IF the system ever assumed that the connected clone was THE drive to boot up on at first boot (i.e. as the first bootable BIOS device). And that THAT is the danger. But then again, I don't see how that could ever happen (even with an externally connected bootable drive), since normally the internal drives would be listed as first priority in BIOS, right? Wouldn't it be a pretty weird BIOS sequence to attempt to boot from an external drive, assuming the main internal one (bootable) was already in there? That seems to me to be a backwards sequence for BIOS to even consider, but maybe it can happen? However, IF the main bootable drive weren't also in the computer at the time the other bootable external clone drive was connected, then I can see a problem arising, if I understand this correctly. Most systems I've worked on had a floppy drive (on older systems) or CD/DVD drive as the first boot device. Then the second device was usually the internal HDD. That could always be changed, and some of the options were External USB/eSATA/Firewire Device (could be a HDD or flash drive), and Boot from LAN. I would think it would be very unusual to have your internal HDD set as the the first boot device unless you set it that way. Ooops, you're right, and I forgot about some of that, and the reasons for it. First is indeed floppy, which makes sense. But in my case, the two internal SATA HDs are next, followed by the CD drive. I can see where it might make more sense to move the CD drive up to just follow the floppy. If I connect an eSATA drive I expect it will be picked up with the other HDs, and enumerated in the order of the ports (SATA-0, SATA-1, SATA-2, SATA-3), unless I override that. So I guess the bottom line is that if I dared to leave the system clone connected at bootup, the system would still boot up on the regular boot drive, and I'd be ok (and not affect the clone's bootability). Again, the clone was made with ATI version 11, and I never set the disk signature option. It sounds like that's a pretty dangerous option (to copy the disk signature). I'm not sure why that would even be necessary (even after reading the ATI link on this). Your system would boot up to the regular drive as long as that's the first HDD in the HDD Boot Priority List. I have a bootable XP drive (SATA1) in my Win7 computer that I'm copying things from for my (somewhat) fresh install of Win7 on SATA0. But, by moving SATA1 ahead of SATA0 in the HDD subcategory in BIOS, I can boot into XP, and the Win7 drive becomes a second drive. And I have a floppy drive, too, but it's on a shelf, not installed. I haven't had to use it in years, but I keep it just in case. You never know. .. . -- SC Tom |
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