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#46
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OT - What3words: The app that can save your life
On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 20:49:17 +0000, David wrote:
Copy/Paste follows:- So you haven't read the tech. I was right. You don't even know what it is, do you? --------------- BD: I want people to "get to know me better. I have nothing to hide". I'm always here to help, this page was put up at BD's request, rather, he said "Do it *NOW*!": http://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php 60 confirmed #FAKE_NYMS, most used in cybercrimes! Google "David Brooks Devon" []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
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#47
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OT - What3words: The app that can save your life
"Mike Easter" wrote in message
... For some time people in the wilderness w/ a phone have been able to call for help and locate themselves to the agency. The 'language' is the coordinates, not some word derivation from that. It seems to me to be an unnecessary conversion from numerical coordinates to human words and back to numerical coordinates again. A pointless (and proprietary) round-robin. The problem is finding a means of communicating one's location that everyone understands. What3words *may* become that standard. I suppose it is quicker to say three words than to say a lot of digits for lat/long (in a variety of forms: DDMMSS, DDMM.MMM, DD.DDDDDDD etc), but it does hinge on correct communication of words that may sound similar. At least words for digits are restricted to ten of them, and only five/nine and four/nought are liable to confusion, with workarounds like "four - as in one more than three" if there's confusion. One of the difficulties is that emergency 999/911/112 operators can't always understand the form that you give for your location. In the UK, the postcode (equivalent of US ZIP code, but to a higher precision) is the de-factor standard for giving the location of a building, but can't be used for an arbitrary location where there are no nearby buildings. On motorways and other trunk roads, signs started to be erected about ten years ago of the form "M1A 123.4" which says "I'm on the M1 motorway, on the A carriageway (defined to be heading away from London - like railway use of "up" and "down"), 123.4 kilometres from the reference datum (in London?)". Brilliant idea - except when I first used it, the 999 operator hadn't got a clue how to use the information. I was calling from my hands-free phone while driving (*), to report an accident that I'd seen on the opposite carriageway, so I said "I've just passed a sign saying M1A 123.4. There is an accident on the *opposite*, B carriageway, roughly opposite this sign." Slightly convoluted but totally unambiguous. The 999 operator kept wittering on about "what's the postcode" - I'm on a motorway, nowhere near any buildings. "What junction have you just passed" - I'm really not sure because I'm in the middle of a long journey and nowhere near a junction number that I'll have memorised because it's where I'll be coming off the motorway. "What service station have you last passed" - ditto. When I got back home, I emailed the duty manager of the relevant police force to alert them to the fact that their operator had been unable to process information on signs that are erected for the very purpose of giving a location in an emergency. I had a reply saying that they had found the recording of my 999 call and agreed that I had given a location that should have been sufficient to direct the emergency services to the location, and that they had identified that more training was needed! On another occasion, when my wife called 999 to report an accident (while I was driving), she didn't even need to give her location: the operator was able to say to her "I think you are near the turning to this village, heading northbound on this road - is that correct", so I can only assume that because she had a GPS-recording application running on her phone at the time, the 999 system had been able to pass her location automatically. How ever it was done, we were very impressed ;-) (*) I was on a long journey and didn't want to have to stop at the next emergency phone (which are every 1 kilometre, I think) on a cold, rainy night. If the accident had been on my side of the road and there didn't appear to be anyone else stopped, I'd have stopped both the help and to cal 999. |
#48
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OT - What3words: The app that can save your life
On 18/11/2019 14:40, NY wrote:
"Mike Easter" wrote in message ... For some time people in the wilderness w/ a phone have been able to call for help and locate themselves to the agency.Â* The 'language' is the coordinates, not some word derivation from that.Â* It seems to me to be an unnecessary conversion from numerical coordinates to human words and back to numerical coordinates again.Â* A pointless (and proprietary) round-robin. The problem is finding a means of communicating one's location that everyone understands. What3words *may* become that standard. I suppose it is quicker to say three words than to say a lot of digits for lat/long (in a variety of forms: DDMMSS, DDMM.MMM, DD.DDDDDDD etc), but it does hinge on correct communication of words that may sound similar. At least words for digits are restricted to ten of them, and only five/nine and four/nought are liable to confusion, with workarounds like "four - as in one more than three" if there's confusion. One of the difficulties is that emergency 999/911/112 operators can't always understand the form that you give for your location. In the UK, the postcode (equivalent of US ZIP code, but to a higher precision) is the de-factor standard for giving the location of a building, but can't be used for an arbitrary location where there are no nearby buildings. On motorways and other trunk roads, signs started to be erected about ten years ago of the form "M1A 123.4" which says "I'm on the M1 motorway, on the A carriageway (defined to be heading away from London - like railway use of "up" and "down"), 123.4 kilometres from the reference datum (in London?)". Brilliant idea - except when I first used it, the 999 operator hadn't got a clue how to use the information. I was calling from my hands-free phone while driving (*), to report an accident that I'd seen on the opposite carriageway, so I said "I've just passed a sign saying M1A 123.4. There is an accident on the *opposite*, B carriageway, roughly opposite this sign." Slightly convoluted but totally unambiguous. The 999 operator kept wittering on about "what's the postcode" - I'm on a motorway, nowhere near any buildings. "What junction have you just passed" - I'm really not sure because I'm in the middle of a long journey and nowhere near a junction number that I'll have memorised because it's where I'll be coming off the motorway. "What service station have you last passed" - ditto. When I got back home, I emailed the duty manager of the relevant police force to alert them to the fact that their operator had been unable to process information on signs that are erected for the very purpose of giving a location in an emergency. I had a reply saying that they had found the recording of my 999 call and agreed that I had given a location that should have been sufficient to direct the emergency services to the location, and that they had identified that more training was needed! On another occasion, when my wife called 999 to report an accident (while I was driving), she didn't even need to give her location: the operator was able to say to her "I think you are near the turning to this village, heading northbound on this road - is that correct", so I can only assume that because she had a GPS-recording application running on her phone at the time, the 999 system had been able to pass her location automatically. How ever it was done, we were very impressed ;-) (*) I was on a long journey and didn't want to have to stop at the next emergency phone (which are every 1 kilometre, I think) on a cold, rainy night. If the accident had been on my side of the road and there didn't appear to be anyone else stopped, I'd have stopped both the help and to cal 999. All credit to you, NY, for following matters through. So few people 'bother' nowadays. Well done! :-) |
#49
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OT - What3words: The app that can save your life
On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 15:15:01 +0000, David wrote:
All credit to you, NY, for following matters through. So few people 'bother' nowadays. You still have not explained how it works IN YOUR OWN WORDS, and why it's a scam. Another blackout? --------------- BD: I want people to "get to know me better. I have nothing to hide". I'm always here to help, this page was put up at BD's request, rather, he said "Do it *NOW*!": http://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php 60 confirmed #FAKE_NYMS, most used in cybercrimes! Google "David Brooks Devon" []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#50
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OT - What3words: The app that can save your life
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
[...] Longitude and latitude have always worked fine for me and will continue doing so as long as I'm here. As NY also mentioned, the problem is that there are several/many different notation methods [1] for longitude and latitude. Both the 'sender' (the person with the emergency) and the 'receiver' (the emergency services) have to know/agree_on which notation method to use. That's not easy for Joe/Jane Average, who probably hasn't a clue that these different notation methods even exist. [1] For example: ' '/-' prefix versus N/S/E/W postfix DDD MM SS DDD MM SS.SSSSS DDD MM.MMMMM DDD.DDDDD ':' or ' ' as seperators etc.. |
#51
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OT - What3words: The app that can save your life
"David" wrote in message
... On motorways and other trunk roads, signs started to be erected about ten years ago of the form "M1A 123.4" which says "I'm on the M1 motorway, on the A carriageway (defined to be heading away from London - like railway use of "up" and "down"), 123.4 kilometres from the reference datum (in London?)". Brilliant idea - except when I first used it, the 999 operator hadn't got a clue how to use the information. I was calling from my hands-free phone while driving (*), to report an accident that I'd seen on the opposite carriageway, so I said "I've just passed a sign saying M1A 123.4. There is an accident on the *opposite*, B carriageway, roughly opposite this sign." Slightly convoluted but totally unambiguous. The 999 operator kept wittering on about "what's the postcode" - I'm on a motorway, nowhere near any buildings. "What junction have you just passed" - I'm really not sure because I'm in the middle of a long journey and nowhere near a junction number that I'll have memorised because it's where I'll be coming off the motorway. "What service station have you last passed" - ditto. When I got back home, I emailed the duty manager of the relevant police force to alert them to the fact that their operator had been unable to process information on signs that are erected for the very purpose of giving a location in an emergency. I had a reply saying that they had found the recording of my 999 call and agreed that I had given a location that should have been sufficient to direct the emergency services to the location, and that they had identified that more training was needed! All credit to you, NY, for following matters through. So few people 'bother' nowadays. Well done! :-) I was really horrified that a supposedly trained 999 police operator was unable to process the information on those signs every 0.5 km which are there for people to report emergency locations. Admittedly there hadn't been much publicity about them (and there still hasn't been) but I'd expect trained emergency operators to know things that the average punter doesn't know about. I offered to stop and read the ID number off one of the little posts on the hard shoulder that are every 100 metres (those have been there for several decades) and tell her that, but she said "I wouldn't know that to do with that information either". It was as if she was fixated into a postcode as the only method of locating me - which is meaningless on the open road - and she was quite cross that I couldn't tell her number of the last junction that I'd passed. If it had been on a stretch of road that I drove every day, I could probably have given her a junction number or at least the number of the road that joined the motorway, but a long way from home, late at night, there was no chance that I could be more precise than +/- 50 miles ;-) And I thought *no* information was better than information that could be wrong. So I thought it was important that the training issue or software issue on the desks that they use to log emergency calls was fixed ASAP. It might have been my life that depended on them getting it right next time ;-) |
#52
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OT - What3words: The app that can save your life
"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
... Rene Lamontagne wrote: [...] Longitude and latitude have always worked fine for me and will continue doing so as long as I'm here. As NY also mentioned, the problem is that there are several/many different notation methods [1] for longitude and latitude. Both the 'sender' (the person with the emergency) and the 'receiver' (the emergency services) have to know/agree_on which notation method to use. That's not easy for Joe/Jane Average, who probably hasn't a clue that these different notation methods even exist. [1] For example: ' '/-' prefix versus N/S/E/W postfix DDD MM SS DDD MM SS.SSSSS DDD MM.MMMMM DDD.DDDDD ':' or ' ' as seperators etc.. Exactly. And if the sender's location software only quotes the location in one DMS notation and the recipient's only accepts it in another format, vital time is lost translating between DMS and DM.MMMM or D.DDDDD notation. If What3words becomes a universal standard, then that's the one that all GPS devices will quote and the ones that all emergency operators will understand. The satnav on my wife's car has an "emergency info" mode which quotes the nearest postcode and the nearest junction between two roads - but not the lat/long or OS grid ref AFAIK. I think when I made the emergency call to report the motorway accident I was still using an old non-smart phone with no GPS receiver, so I didn't have the option of being able to quote *any* location coordinates, whether DMS, What3words, Ordnance Survey or whatever. Nowadays I have GPS enabled all the time on my phone, so it is always able to give a GPS fix on request, and I have What3words and also GPS Status; the latter gives (amongst other things) GPS location, switchable between OS and DMS - or various esoteric notations like Maidenhead (??), CH1903, MGRS and UTM. OS coordinates are another "movable feast": one notation uses two letters followed by several digits (the more digits, the greater the precision), whereas another uses all digits. TQ12345678 versus 8123495678, where TQ means "this specific 100x100 km square" and "8.....9....." means the same square (presumably 800 km in one direction and 900 km in the other from the datum which is off the south west of Great Britain). I tend to put a comma (when writing) or a pause (when saying it) to separate the "northings" from the "eastings" part of the grid reference: "TQ 1234 5678" which says: this is a grid reference which is accurate to the nearest 1/10 of a km - the best that you can estimate by eye when reading a coordinate off a paper map that is overlaid with 1 km squares. Interesting, incidentally, that the OS grid was metric from a long time ago (probably before WWII, though I'm guessing), even though miles, yards, feet and inches - and pounds, shillings and pence - lasted a lot longer. |
#53
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OT - What3words: The app that can save your life
On 18/11/2019 19:31, NY wrote:
"David" wrote in message ... On motorways and other trunk roads, signs started to be erected about ten years ago of the form "M1A 123.4" which says "I'm on the M1 motorway, on the A carriageway (defined to be heading away from London - like railway use of "up" and "down"), 123.4 kilometres from the reference datum (in London?)". Brilliant idea - except when I first used it, the 999 operator hadn't got a clue how to use the information. I was calling from my hands-free phone while driving (*), to report an accident that I'd seen on the opposite carriageway, so I said "I've just passed a sign saying M1A 123.4. There is an accident on the *opposite*, B carriageway, roughly opposite this sign." Slightly convoluted but totally unambiguous. The 999 operator kept wittering on about "what's the postcode" - I'm on a motorway, nowhere near any buildings. "What junction have you just passed" - I'm really not sure because I'm in the middle of a long journey and nowhere near a junction number that I'll have memorised because it's where I'll be coming off the motorway. "What service station have you last passed" - ditto. When I got back home, I emailed the duty manager of the relevant police force to alert them to the fact that their operator had been unable to process information on signs that are erected for the very purpose of giving a location in an emergency. I had a reply saying that they had found the recording of my 999 call and agreed that I had given a location that should have been sufficient to direct the emergency services to the location, and that they had identified that more training was needed! All credit to you, NY, for following matters through. So few people 'bother' nowadays. Well done! :-) I was really horrified that a supposedly trained 999 police operator was unable to process the information on those signs every 0.5 km which are there for people to report emergency locations. Admittedly there hadn't been much publicity about them (and there still hasn't been) but I'd expect trained emergency operators to know things that the average punter doesn't know about. I offered to stop and read the ID number off one of the little posts on the hard shoulder that are every 100 metres (those have been there for several decades) and tell her that, but she said "I wouldn't know that to do with that information either". It was as if she was fixated into a postcode as the only method of locating me - which is meaningless on the open road - and she was quite cross that I couldn't tell her number of the last junction that I'd passed. If it had been on a stretch of road that I drove every day, I could probably have given her a junction number or at least the number of the road that joined the motorway, but a long way from home, late at night, there was no chance that I could be more precise than +/- 50 miles ;-) And I thought *no* information was better than information that could be wrong. So I thought it was important that the training issue or software issue on the desks that they use to log emergency calls was fixed ASAP. It might have been my life that depended on them getting it right next time ;-) Indeed! You did *EXACTLY* the right thing. *THANK YOU* - it might be *ME* "next time"!!!! Stay safe, young fella. :-D |
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OT - What3words: The app that can save your life
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#55
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OT - What3words: The app that can save your life
On 19/11/2019 05:48, jeremy wrote:
In article , says... So I thought it was important that the training issue or software issue on the desks that they use to log emergency calls was fixed ASAP. It might have been my life that depended on them getting it right next time ;-) Indeed! You did *EXACTLY* the right thing. *THANK YOU* - it might be *ME* "next time"!!!! Fingers crossed. I somehow doubt that you have ever been on a motorway! :-P |
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