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MS Word 2010



 
 
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  #46  
Old Yesterday, 06:50 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,007
Default MS Word 2010

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:50:52 -0500, silverslimer
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 16:19:58 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 15:52:55 -0500, silverslimer
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 12:30:27 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:36:34 -0800, croy
wrote:

I'm using Word 2000, so this may not apply, but I started with Word for DOS. But with Word for
Windows, it's always been the case that when working on a long, complex document, frequent
saves are a must to prevent Word crashes. If I'm doing something truly esoteric, I save after
each successful step! alt f s is your friend!



Word 2000, Word for DOS, or any other version of Word, you should
always do frequent saves. And that's true whether it's a long complex
document or not.

Saves do not prevent Word crashes. What they prevent is your being
hurt by a problem of almost any type: Word crashes, Windows crashes,
hardware failures, power failures, user errors, malware attacks, etc.

And the same is true for any other word processor, not just Word. Even
if it's not a word processor, but some other type of program, if you
put work into a file, you should frequently save what you've done.

To be fair, Word saves automatically by default every five minutes.




That may depend on what version you use; I'm not sure.

But yes, other word processors do too, such as WordPerfect, the word
processor I use and greatly prefer to Word. And the length of time
between saving may be adjustable.

But my point remains, regardless of what program you use, even it's
not a word processor you should be sure you get frequent saves,
whether they are automatic or you have to do them manually.


I have to admit that I'm a fan of WordPerfect as well. I got the X6
version from some OEM CD on eBay a few years back and found the word
processor's interface to be ugly as sin but the actual software to be
a lot more complete than Word. The only issue I had was the fact that
it took ages to load.




We're very different. I like WordPerfect's interface much better than
Word's.

I run X7, not X6, but there's hardly any difference between them. Out
of curiosity, I just timed how long it took to load; it was 3.5
seconds, and that 's fine as far as I'm concerned.

My wife runs X6, and I just timed loading on her machine. It was 6.5
seconds, a little slower (probably because mine loads from an SSD and
hers from a HD), but still fine.

I also started Word 2016 on my machine to compare its startup time
with WordPerfect's; it was 5 seconds, a little slower than
WordPerfect.
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  #47  
Old Yesterday, 07:15 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
silverslimer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default MS Word 2010 May be solved...more info

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 12:15:13 -0500, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2019-01-17 11:05, nospam wrote:
In article , Wolf K
wrote:

By default MS Word is set to NOT clear cache on closing and to store
cache for 14 days!

There is also an option to clear cache .

I cleared cache, set the program to only hold for one day and to clear
when closed.

I also told my wife she can run the tool kit to clear cache anytime she
wanted...and to do so periodically after large edits.

She had no further problems yesterday* but I did not make this discovery
until close to the end of her work day.

Thanks for this. Fits what I think I know. IIRC, the cache by default is
written to disk at regular intervals, so a large cache would invoke
paging. Paging takes a long time.


no. writing to disk can be done in the background and does not
necessarily involve paging, which itself does not take a long time.


You haven't experienced an under-resourced machine, then. Our first
laptop had 1GB RAM. There was constant disk activity as paging was done
"in the background." Anything that involved the disk (eg Saving a doc)
was painfully slow. I maxed the RAM to 2GB, the difference was spectacular.


I assume that you're referring to a machine running Vista or higher.
1GB was great before that.

The issue involves how much idle time is available for background tasks.
Sure, modern machines are very fast compared to older ones, but we have
also come to expect much faster responses. OP indicated that the machine
was responding too slowly. His reported solution suggests that caching
and paging were somehow involved. A 14 day old cache could be several
GB, so even 16GB of RAM might not have enough space to hold it without
paging. Paging involves writing and reading back. Hence it's slower than
simple writing to disk.

In short, resetting the cache retention changed the amount of data to be
held in RAM, hence reduced the need for paging, hence speeded up the
machine's repsonse. The details would be of interest to someone who
wants to make the process faster, but unfortunately they aren't available.


Cache should automatically be emptied the moment _any_ program is
closed. I can't imagine what the benefit of leaving it there actually
is.
  #48  
Old Yesterday, 08:54 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,181
Default MS Word 2010 May be solved...more info

philo wrote:

The 64 bit version is now installed but it think I found what the
problem really was. I looked at the Office 2010 tool kit and checked the
cache settings.

By default MS Word is set to NOT clear cache on closing and to store
cache for 14 days!

There is also an option to clear cache .

I cleared cache, set the program to only hold for one day and to clear
when closed.

I also told my wife she can run the tool kit to clear cache anytime she
wanted...and to do so periodically after large edits.

She had no further problems yesterday but I did not make this discovery
until close to the end of her work day.


This could be a OneDrive-style cache.

If you're not storing the working documents in the
cloud, do you even need a OneDrive cache ?

The upload on my ADSL (not a VDSL) is pretty slow,
and working with Cloud storage in the expected way
would be out of the question. A Cloud Cache, keeping
local copies, would be essential to high performance
in such a case.

But if I was keeping the only copy of the documents
on the C: drive and didn't even have a Cloud account,
that cache would likely not be needed.

When you see a cache on something, ask yourself "what's
it for" and "why do I need this". Many times the answers
are obvious (we never question the usage of L1/L2/L3
on our CPU), but don't be tricked into caches that
have no value.

The System Write Cache on my computer, is ********, and is
actually... dangerous. The System Read Cache on the computer
is by comparison, a "free lunch" and one of the better
computer inventions. The first version I saw was on a
Sun Sparc. Then System Read Cache showed up on my Mac. And
finally, it came to Win2K and the PC. And the Win2K behavior
"was the best" and System Read Cache has been watered down
over the years since that release.

The System Read Cache and System Write Cache, seem
to be disabled when you defragment a hard drive. as
an example of how you "water down" a cache, by adding
exceptions. Uncached reads and writes are available
via software API, so any developer who doesn't want to
worry about what a cache is doing, can avoid them.

Paul
  #49  
Old Yesterday, 09:22 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,508
Default MS Word 2010 May be solved...more info

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

Cache should automatically be emptied the moment _any_ program is
closed. I can't imagine what the benefit of leaving it there actually
is.


Should, but browsers (eg) often retain the cache.


which is kept on disk and faster than a network query.
  #50  
Old Yesterday, 10:30 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
philo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,671
Default MS Word 2010 May be solved...more info

On 1/17/19 9:42 AM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2019-01-17 09:36, philo wrote:
[...]
f I followed the good advice at the time it was probably inadvertent!


The 64 bit version is now installed but it think I found what the
problem really was. I looked at the Office 2010 tool kit and checked
the cache settings.


By default MS Word is set to NOT clear cache on closing and to store
cache for 14 days!


There is also an option to clear cache .


I cleared cache, set the program to only hold for one day and to clear
when closed.


I also told my wife she can run the tool kit to clear cache anytime
she wanted...and to do so periodically after large edits.


She had no further problems yesterday¬* but I did not make this
discovery until close to the end of her work day.


Thanks for this. Fits what I think I know. IIRC, the cache by default is
written to disk at regular intervals, so a large cache would invoke
paging. Paging takes a long time.

Best,




Seven hours and no problems ...so cache was it
  #51  
Old Yesterday, 10:32 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
philo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,671
Default MS Word 2010 May be solved...more info

On 1/17/19 1:54 PM, Paul wrote:
philo wrote:

The 64 bit version is now installed but it think I found what the
problem really was. I looked at the Office 2010 tool kit and checked
the cache settings.

By default MS Word is set to NOT clear cache on closing and to store
cache for 14 days!

There is also an option to clear cache .

I cleared cache, set the program to only hold for one day and to clear
when closed.

I also told my wife she can run the tool kit to clear cache anytime
she wanted...and to do so periodically after large edits.

She had no further problems yesterday* but I did not make this
discovery until close to the end of her work day.


This could be a OneDrive-style cache.

If you're not storing the working documents in the
cloud, do you even need a OneDrive cache ?

The upload on my ADSL (not a VDSL) is pretty slow,
and working with Cloud storage in the expected way
would be out of the question. A Cloud Cache, keeping
local copies, would be essential to high performance
in such a case.

But if I was keeping the only copy of the documents
on the C: drive and didn't even have a Cloud account,
that cache would likely not be needed.

When you see a cache on something, ask yourself "what's
it for" and "why do I need this". Many times the answers
are obvious (we never question the usage of L1/L2/L3
on our CPU), but don't be tricked into caches that
have no value.

The System Write Cache on my computer, is ********, and is
actually... dangerous. The System Read Cache on the computer
is by comparison, a "free lunch" and one of the better
computer inventions. The first version I saw was on a
Sun Sparc. Then System Read Cache showed up on my Mac. And
finally, it came to Win2K and the PC.* And the Win2K behavior
"was the best" and System Read Cache has been watered down
over the years since that release.

The System Read Cache and System Write Cache, seem
to be disabled when you defragment a hard drive. as
an example of how you "water down" a cache, by adding
exceptions. Uncached reads and writes are available
via software API, so any developer who doesn't want to
worry about what a cache is doing, can avoid them.

** Paul




Cache is kept on hard drive

problem now solved
  #52  
Old Yesterday, 11:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
silverslimer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default MS Word 2010

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:50:20 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:50:52 -0500, silverslimer
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 16:19:58 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 15:52:55 -0500, silverslimer
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 12:30:27 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:36:34 -0800, croy
wrote:

I'm using Word 2000, so this may not apply, but I started with Word for DOS. But with Word for
Windows, it's always been the case that when working on a long, complex document, frequent
saves are a must to prevent Word crashes. If I'm doing something truly esoteric, I save after
each successful step! alt f s is your friend!



Word 2000, Word for DOS, or any other version of Word, you should
always do frequent saves. And that's true whether it's a long complex
document or not.

Saves do not prevent Word crashes. What they prevent is your being
hurt by a problem of almost any type: Word crashes, Windows crashes,
hardware failures, power failures, user errors, malware attacks, etc.

And the same is true for any other word processor, not just Word. Even
if it's not a word processor, but some other type of program, if you
put work into a file, you should frequently save what you've done.

To be fair, Word saves automatically by default every five minutes.



That may depend on what version you use; I'm not sure.

But yes, other word processors do too, such as WordPerfect, the word
processor I use and greatly prefer to Word. And the length of time
between saving may be adjustable.

But my point remains, regardless of what program you use, even it's
not a word processor you should be sure you get frequent saves,
whether they are automatic or you have to do them manually.


I have to admit that I'm a fan of WordPerfect as well. I got the X6
version from some OEM CD on eBay a few years back and found the word
processor's interface to be ugly as sin but the actual software to be
a lot more complete than Word. The only issue I had was the fact that
it took ages to load.




We're very different. I like WordPerfect's interface much better than
Word's.

I run X7, not X6, but there's hardly any difference between them. Out
of curiosity, I just timed how long it took to load; it was 3.5
seconds, and that 's fine as far as I'm concerned.

My wife runs X6, and I just timed loading on her machine. It was 6.5
seconds, a little slower (probably because mine loads from an SSD and
hers from a HD), but still fine.

I also started Word 2016 on my machine to compare its startup time
with WordPerfect's; it was 5 seconds, a little slower than
WordPerfect.


I'm starting to wonder if the last time I used WordPerfect was on the
i3 I owned before this i7. I'll have to find that WordPerfect Office
X6 CD somewhere and install it again. Since we moved last month, I
have no idea where the wife put it so I'm using LibreOffice for now.
That, I have to admit, loads very fast now.
  #53  
Old Today, 01:56 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
David B.[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default MS Word 2010

On 16/01/2019 22:43, nospam wrote:
In article , philo
wrote:



"nospam" has been blocked for years

He seems fairly knowledgeable. Is there any reason you've blocked him?


On one of the other groups his answers are wrong 98% of the time


baseless attack. if you've blocked me, then you would have no way to
know how often i'm right or wrong.


You are a *TROLL*, 'nospam' - most folk know that.

And you *LIE*!

--
David B.
  #54  
Old Today, 02:05 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,508
Default MS Word 2010

In article , David B.
wrote:


You are a *TROLL*,


you're not one to be calling others trolls.
  #55  
Old Today, 02:21 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
David B.[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default MS Word 2010

On 18/01/2019 01:05, nospam *THE TROLL* was identified!

In article , David B.
wrote:


You are a *TROLL*,


you're not one to be calling others trolls.


Why's that? You *ARE* a *TROLL*, 'nospam'! :-P

--
David B.
  #56  
Old Today, 02:21 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sjouke Burry[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 199
Default MS Word 2010

On 18-1-2019 2:05, nospam wrote:
In article , David B.
wrote:


You are a *TROLL*,


you're not one to be calling others trolls.

Three trolls playing pingpong.

Live must suck for you....
  #57  
Old Today, 02:30 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
David B.[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default MS Word 2010

On 18/01/2019 01:21, Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 18-1-2019 2:05, nospam wrote:
In article , David B.
wrote:


You are a *TROLL*,


you're not one to be calling others trolls.

Three trolls playing pingpong.

Live must suck for you....


You should have used the word LIFE not "Live" (HTH)

And no, it doesn't! :-)

Philo is a super guy and most certainly is no Troll. If you ever need
assistance with computer problems, you can rely on any help given by Philo.

--
David B.
 




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