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  #1  
Old January 17th 19, 11:13 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
John Doe[_8_]
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Posts: 2,378
Default Version 1809

Was unable to apply the update by restarting normally. Tried twice. Then
it applied itself when I selected Restart from within Windows Update.

It reset all of my fonts.

My Macrium Reflect backup size went from 19 GB to 30 GB.

After my mouse has been idle, about 10 processes open in rapid
succession upon moving the mouse, followed by one process closing (could
be all of them closing it once, I dunno). That one seems kinda weird.
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  #2  
Old January 17th 19, 03:15 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Version 1809

John Doe wrote:
Was unable to apply the update by restarting normally. Tried twice. Then
it applied itself when I selected Restart from within Windows Update.

It reset all of my fonts.

My Macrium Reflect backup size went from 19 GB to 30 GB.

After my mouse has been idle, about 10 processes open in rapid
succession upon moving the mouse, followed by one process closing (could
be all of them closing it once, I dunno). That one seems kinda weird.


If you move some of your Junction Points (move "Program Files"
to D: or your home directory to D: ), the installer might
not like that.

During installation, Windows is moved to Windows.old and
a new Windows is formed.

If the OS installer halts the install and rolls back, it
uses Windows.old to reconstruct the Windows it just trashed.

In some cases, it "moves" non-standard stuff out of the way.
Windows.old contains *more* than just Windows folder. It
also contains folders for stuff it decided to move. Chances
are, your font files are not lost, but are wither
in Windows or Windows.old, depending on what kind of a
job it did during rollback.

If the new OS came in via Windows Update, there could
be 5GB of files in SoftwareDistribution folder area.

So the excess storage is cruft left over from the failure.

To prevent looping behavior, it's possible for a rollback to
"damp" attempts to install again. But it still might try
at some point.

The install attempt generates logs, but good luck detecting
the actual event that caused the rollback to happen. When
the rollback happens, the log continues to fill with crap,
which means the "causative event" is in the middle of
the log file somewhere. And likely without any notation
in flashing lights, to tell you "the problem is here". It
can be hard to spot due to their inability to make
customer-friendly logs. I doubt the logs are of any
use to Microsoft support staff who happen to remote
in and help people with failed updates.

There are at least two install logs. One log file only
logs things up to the first reboot. The second log handles
subsequent installation stages. The timestamp will also
be screwy. One log might use local time, the other might
use GMT or UTC or something. This can be off-putting if
you were relying on timestamps as "evidence".

If I were you, I'd check whether my usage of Junctions
has all of them set to "Default" values before the install
starts.

Paul
  #3  
Old January 17th 19, 04:56 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Alexander Shofner-Geidt
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Posts: 43
Default Version 1809

John Doe posted:

Was unable to apply the update by restarting normally. Tried twice. Then
it applied itself when I selected Restart from within Windows Update.

It reset all of my fonts.

My Macrium Reflect backup size went from 19 GB to 30 GB.

After my mouse has been idle, about 10 processes open in rapid
succession upon moving the mouse, followed by one process closing (could
be all of them closing it once, I dunno). That one seems kinda weird.


Use the System Settings interface to navigate to Update and Security button
then click Check for updates... also explore View update history... ensure
that your computer has completely updated.

It sounds like something interrupted an update in progress, then your
computer resumed the process. Since Windows 10 does a lot of this in the
background, it's hard to tell. I have a Dell laptop that uses similar
background processes to check for Dell system updates and often it
conflicts with Windows' background processes when I boot up or execute a
required reboot after an update.

The best thing to do is drink some coffee, have sex with the girlfriend,
and while she's making you a sandwich and pouring you a beer, check the
progress bar.

I usually wait a few days after a major Windows update to clean out the old
and remnant files... Anyway, after a Windows update, especially an
unsucessful one, but even after a successful one, you can run Windows Disk
Cleanup utility, select Drive C:\, do some light personal grooming and
brush your teeth while the GUI does the calculations, then when it displays
the results and options, click the Clean up system files button... then do
your hair product and facial trimming routine while it runs those
calculations, plus more, all over again... then when it finally displays
the results and options, scroll in the 'Files to delete' window until you
see options like "Windows update"; "Old Windows installation"; "Downloads";
"Defender antivirus"... The old Windows update files could run upwards from
3 to 5 gigabytes... and more, if you haven't cleaned up in while.

Those you select could take some time to cleanup using the utility, so
don't get impatient or interrupt the process. It's always good to have
something else going on, like painting the house, delivering a newspaper
route, menial household chores, gardening duties, automobile maintenance...
so you're not simply sitting there watching the progress bar to evolve.

Once these old files are removed, and you defrag your hard drive, your
backup image should be considerably smaller. But be aware, that after every
monthly Windows update, your backup image will likely swell by around 500-
MB (or 1/2-GB) each time. That has been my pattern, until, for instance,
v1803 updated to v1809, when my image size (after the aforementioned clean
up procedures) reduced by about 3-GB; then, resumed the march in ~1/2-GB
steps after each successive minor update.
  #4  
Old January 17th 19, 05:05 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Version 1809

In article , Alexander
Shofner-Geidt wrote:

The best thing to do is drink some coffee, have sex with the girlfriend,
and while she's making you a sandwich and pouring you a beer, check the
progress bar.


all of those at the same time.
  #5  
Old January 17th 19, 07:13 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
dave61430[_2_]
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Posts: 31
Default Version 1809

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 15:56:54 +0000, Alexander Shofner-Geidt wrote:

John Doe posted:

Was unable to apply the update by restarting normally. Tried twice.
Then it applied itself when I selected Restart from within Windows
Update.

It reset all of my fonts.

My Macrium Reflect backup size went from 19 GB to 30 GB.



Those you select could take some time to cleanup using the utility, so
don't get impatient or interrupt the process. It's always good to have
something else going on, like painting the house, delivering a newspaper
route, menial household chores, gardening duties, automobile
maintenance...
so you're not simply sitting there watching the progress bar to evolve.

Once these old files are removed, and you defrag your hard drive, your
backup image should be considerably smaller. But be aware, that after
every monthly Windows update, your backup image will likely swell by
around 500- MB (or 1/2-GB) each time. That has been my pattern, until,
for instance, v1803 updated to v1809, when my image size (after the
aforementioned clean up procedures) reduced by about 3-GB; then, resumed
the march in ~1/2-GB steps after each successive minor update.


Unless you have apps you must run in windows, or you need windows for
collaboration with others, the simplest solution is to run Linux.
Initially you can either dual boot or run windows in virtual box provided
you have the installation media. For those wishing to express their
dislike of this post, save your breath, I've heard it all.

  #6  
Old January 17th 19, 08:28 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Version 1809

dave61430 wrote:

the simplest solution is to run Linux.


But you'd still have annoying update options, an interface
to stare at, and questions to ask.

So how much further ahead are we ?

Especially if a stupid update jams up your system and
prevents you from using Synaptic after booting up the
machine. You'll be... angry. Trust me. You'd have
flatpacks, snaps, and debs to study. Now, where
did I leave my textbook, and how do I add those
GIMP plugins I wanted to use ? "Why won't it let
me use them?"

And yeah, I'm sure it can be fixed. Indeedily.

The purpose of explaining this, is it's the same ole thing.
Which is, "the grass is always greener over the septic tank".
We always think the "other option" HAS to be better,
but really all the options are the SAME. It's human
nature to copy the worst aspect of what a competitor
does, and make it your own. Because... developers.

So yeah, dabble in Linux if you want. And compare
the six bad things they've done, with the
six bad things the Windows dudes did, and make
your choice.

Paul
  #7  
Old January 17th 19, 09:35 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Tim[_10_]
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Posts: 249
Default Version 1809

Paul wrote in :

dave61430 wrote:

the simplest solution is to run Linux.


But you'd still have annoying update options, an interface
to stare at, and questions to ask.

So how much further ahead are we ?


So yeah, dabble in Linux if you want. And compare
the six bad things they've done, with the
six bad things the Windows dudes did, and make
your choice.

Paul

I've worked with (played with, actually) UNIX since the mid 90s when we
were running Microsoft Lan Manager on a BSD UNIX box at work. Up until
recently I was never impressed with the graphical interfaces available, so
just stayed with Windows cause it was familiar and it usually worked. The
recent Linux releases look like the UIs are finally getting useable, so
will be loading one or two to see how they work.
Almost all my Windows work is browser based, so if the UI is decent it
should be an easy transition.

PS: My first version of Windows was 3.1, so it is kind of hard to change
over, but I'm willing to give it a try.
  #8  
Old January 17th 19, 10:40 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Big Al[_5_]
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Posts: 1,588
Default Version 1809

On 1/17/19 3:35 PM, Tim wrote:
Paul wrote in :

dave61430 wrote:

the simplest solution is to run Linux.


But you'd still have annoying update options, an interface
to stare at, and questions to ask.

So how much further ahead are we ?


So yeah, dabble in Linux if you want. And compare
the six bad things they've done, with the
six bad things the Windows dudes did, and make
your choice.

Paul

I've worked with (played with, actually) UNIX since the mid 90s when we
were running Microsoft Lan Manager on a BSD UNIX box at work. Up until
recently I was never impressed with the graphical interfaces available, so
just stayed with Windows cause it was familiar and it usually worked. The
recent Linux releases look like the UIs are finally getting useable, so
will be loading one or two to see how they work.
Almost all my Windows work is browser based, so if the UI is decent it
should be an easy transition.

PS: My first version of Windows was 3.1, so it is kind of hard to change
over, but I'm willing to give it a try.

Try Linux Mint Cinnamon.
On Distro Watch https://distrowatch.com/ it is #3 on the right hand side
of the page (listed by hit ranking). It was # 1 for years, but the two
above it have recently popped up. I still think it's #1 but I'm biased.

It has a start menu kind of like windows but software grouped into
categories, graphics, office, accessories, programming, games etc.

It's an easy step from a windows. You can download the ISO, make usb
or cd to boot from and run it live off the cd. You don't have to
install it. However no changes will be retained, and you can't do a
lot of stuff since everything is installed in memory and is lost when
shutdown. It is preloaded with Firefox so you can do browsing
immediately off the cd. Personally if you are running Thunderbird for
mail and Firefox or Google Chrome as a browser, and doing that a lot,
you barely know you are in linux.

It's a painless way to see. A virtual machine on your Windows machine
would be a 2nd way to test, or a spare hard drive.

Have fun. There is a linux mint newsgroup too. alt.os.linux.mint
Al.
  #9  
Old January 18th 19, 01:13 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mike
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Posts: 185
Default Version 1809

On 1/17/2019 1:40 PM, Big Al wrote:
On 1/17/19 3:35 PM, Tim wrote:
Paul wrote in :

dave61430 wrote:

the simplest solution is to run Linux.

But you'd still have annoying update options, an interface
to stare at, and questions to ask.

So how much further ahead are we ?


So yeah, dabble in Linux if you want. And compare
the six bad things they've done, with the
six bad things the Windows dudes did, and make
your choice.

Â*Â*Â*Â* Paul

I've worked with (played with, actually) UNIX since the mid 90s when we
were running Microsoft Lan Manager on a BSD UNIX box at work. Up until
recently I was never impressed with the graphical interfaces
available, so
just stayed with Windows cause it was familiar and it usually worked. The
recent Linux releases look like the UIs are finally getting useable, so
will be loading one or two to see how they work.
Almost all my Windows work is browser based, so if the UI is decent it
should be an easy transition.

PS: My first version of Windows was 3.1, so it is kind of hard to change
over, but I'm willing to give it a try.

Try Linux Mint Cinnamon.
On Distro Watch https://distrowatch.com/ it is #3 on the right hand side
of the page (listed by hit ranking).Â*Â* It was # 1 for years, but the two
above it have recently popped up.Â*Â* I still think it's #1 but I'm biased.

It has a start menu kind of like windows but software grouped into
categories, graphics, office, accessories, programming, games etc.

It's an easy step from a windows.


I've had a similar experience. Yes, it's a simple update.
And if you're willing to learn whole new ways of doing things.
And you're willing to learn a new user interface paradigm.
And if you're willing to live with what comes standard in the
given distro.

Once you get below the surface and try to install extra stuff
that exists, then work around stuff that doesn't exist,
issues compound exponentially.

The good news is that windows is turning to crap too.
Maybe they'll be equal to linux, but at the linux level.

I got widows 10 mostly working, so I'm running low on frustration.
I think I'll try to load the latest version of Zorin to see
what they're up to these days.


You can download the ISO, make usb
or cd to boot from and run it live off the cd.Â* You don't have to
install it.Â*Â* However no changes will be retained, and you can't do a
lot of stuff since everything is installed in memory and is lost when
shutdown.Â*Â*Â* It is preloaded with Firefox so you can do browsing
immediately off the cd.Â*Â*Â* Personally if you are running Thunderbird for
mail and Firefox or Google Chrome as a browser, and doing that a lot,
you barely know you are in linux.

It's a painless way to see.Â* A virtual machine on your Windows machine
would be a 2nd way to test, or a spare hard drive.

Have fun.Â*Â* There is a linux mint newsgroup too.Â* alt.os.linux.mint
Al.


  #10  
Old January 18th 19, 09:17 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
John Doe[_8_]
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Posts: 2,378
Default Version 1809

"Alexander Shofner-Geidt" wrote:

John Doe posted:

Was unable to apply the update by restarting normally. Tried
twice. Then it applied itself when I selected Restart from within
Windows Update.


I don't know how that got blown out of proportion. I was just
talking about restarting after Windows update downloads a bunch of
update data.

It reset all of my fonts. My Macrium Reflect backup size went
from 18 GB [correction] to 30 GB.


After my mouse has been idle, about 10 processes open in rapid
succession upon moving the mouse


Correction, more like 15 processes, plus or minus 5. Probably to do
with power management. My beefy system only consumes about 50 W when
doing stuff like this. Still not sure what's going on since the
power consumption before and after probably remains about the same
50 W.

I'm not talking about obtrusive process startups. I use system
sounds and hear BACKGROUND program open and program close sounds. I
hear about 15 open program sounds after the thing has been idle for
a while and then I touch the mouse or the keyboard.

Never noticed that before, but potentially it could be that I always
disabled power management settings. Or it might be something about
1809. I dunno.

you can run Windows Disk Cleanup utility, select Drive C:\


That sounds like a good idea to attack the expansion problem.

No idea how I attracted Linux Lunatics. I said nothing about having
tremendous difficulty. Just described some weirdness.





Thanks to the replies.
  #11  
Old January 18th 19, 10:11 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
John Doe[_8_]
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Posts: 2,378
Default Version 1809

Paul wrote:

dave61430 wrote:

the simplest solution is to run Linux.


If the poster knew anything about Windows, it might know that my
problems were minor, I wasn't talking about anything serious. Except
maybe for the increase in disk usage, alarming for a typical Linux
user with a 20 GB HDD, but the other poster's recommendation will
probably clean it up nicely for me.

But you'd still have annoying update options, an interface
to stare at, and questions to ask.

So how much further ahead are we ?

Especially if a stupid update jams up your system and
prevents you from using Synaptic after booting up the
machine. You'll be... angry. Trust me. You'd have
flatpacks, snaps, and debs to study. Now, where
did I leave my textbook, and how do I add those
GIMP plugins I wanted to use ? "Why won't it let
me use them?"

And yeah, I'm sure it can be fixed. Indeedily.

The purpose of explaining this, is it's the same ole thing.
Which is, "the grass is always greener over the septic tank".


Cute.

We always think the "other option" HAS to be better,
but really all the options are the SAME.


Much of the stuff I do in Windows depends on speech dictation and
automation that is not done in Linux.

Speech is far superior, but lately I added a few Autohotkey keyboard
activated macros.

Great Autohotkey for Windows technical help for free. I asked a tough
question and received the most apt reply almost immediately. It's a
fringe application with good technical support because the Windows
user base is HUGE.

This sums up typical fringe application support in Linux...

"There's a port of AutoHotKey to Linux called IronAHK and a similar
tool called Autokey. I haven't used either, I don't know how well they
work."

A Linux Lunatic with the same ZERO experience will make it sound like
Nirvana. Then when you try, it doesn't work and you can't find
technical help anywhere. A complete waste of time.

After taking a closer look at the Linux application "OpenHantek" for
my PC/USB oscilloscope... Apparently it is developed by ONE person.
But the stock Windows software works well enough.





















  #12  
Old January 18th 19, 01:14 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
John Doe[_8_]
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Posts: 2,378
Default Version 1809

John Doe wrote:

"Alexander Shofner-Geidt" wrote:


you can run Windows Disk Cleanup utility, select Drive C:\


That sounds like a good idea to attack the expansion problem.


Yes, it worked. Selected everything and it chopped the backup size in
half. Took a long time to do so, with little other system activity
except the CPU stuck at about 15% for many minutes.
  #13  
Old January 18th 19, 04:15 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Version 1809

John Doe wrote:
John Doe wrote:

"Alexander Shofner-Geidt" wrote:


you can run Windows Disk Cleanup utility, select Drive C:\

That sounds like a good idea to attack the expansion problem.


Yes, it worked. Selected everything and it chopped the backup size in
half. Took a long time to do so, with little other system activity
except the CPU stuck at about 15% for many minutes.


Rather than that being all cleaning, some of it
involved compression. That could be why you were
seeing CPU usage.

Compact.exe /CompactOS:Query

Compact.exe /CompactOS:Query /WinDir:E:\Windows

Compact.exe /CompactOS:always
Compact.exe /CompactOS:never

Before using Linux for forensic NTFS work, you can do

Compact.exe /CompactOS:never

to remove the application of the second (newer) kind
of NTFS file compression from C:\Windows or so. It's
also possible if you examined items from Windows 7,
Windows 7 might not know about the new compression
method either.

The representation of NTFS used colors in Explorer for
the state of the files. One color used for compression,
one color used for encryption, but I don't think necessarily
the new compression method has a color for easy recognition.
But you might be able to tell from an Attribute or from
nfi.exe somehow. fsutil.exe is an example of a utility
that can answer at least some questions of that sort.

Paul
  #14  
Old May 12th 19, 12:02 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
John Doe[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,378
Default Version 1809

I wrote (paraphrased):

After my mouse and keyboard have been idle, about 15 processes
open and close in rapid succession upon moving the mouse or
pressing a key. That one is kinda weird, apparently another
post-Gates/Ballmer thing.


I recall Paul suggesting it might have to do with drivers, but I
cannot find his post.

I replaced the mouse with a new one, today. Still does that weird
repetitive sound after being idle for some time. Since apparently no
one has tested that, I suspect it applies to everyone's 1809
system. But you can't hear it if you don't use system sounds.
 




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