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#31
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
In article , Paul
wrote: When you have a single cell, like my digital camera does, you can run those down to 0 volts. which digital camera might that be and what battery chemistry is this mystery single cell? regardless, that's a bad idea. |
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#32
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
nospam wrote:
In article , Paul wrote: When you have a single cell, like my digital camera does, you can run those down to 0 volts. which digital camera might that be and what battery chemistry is this mystery single cell? regardless, that's a bad idea. The (provided) charger sets the policy. I checked the cell voltage before plugging the thing in to be charged. And it was right at zero volts on the multimeter. It charged up just fine. And that's probably the battery I took the picture with a couple hours ago. The camera is a Canon Powershot. Paul |
#33
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
Paul wrote:
John Doe wrote: One familiar warning is to avoid discharging lithium to zero, in dumb devices. That's NOT all I know... THE REST OF WHAT I KNOW WAS SNIPPED. This is true for battery packs with multiple cells. If you have a 14.4V battery pack, it could be using multiple cells, and running those down to zero is not allowed. (As the charger checks, and if it detects a low voltage, it won't inject current.) When you have a single cell, like my digital camera does, you can run those down to 0 volts. The reason you can do that, is there is no danger of a single cell "reverse biasing itself". Whereas if you have a battery pack with multiple cells then "N-1" cells can strong-arm the "weak" cell and place it under reverse bias, and cause it to plate out metal. I think you are talking about nickel metal hydride (NiMH) or earlier. I read an article about that concerning NiMH. The reason lithium cannot be run down to zero is different and also applies to single cell lithium. One other consideration with respect to single versus multiple cells... A single cell can be partially charged without worrying about leveling that might take place near the end of the charge. That is clear, because there is only one cell and no need to even the voltage between multiple cells. That is, if you can guess there is only one cell in your device. |
#34
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
Paul wrote:
nospam wrote: In article , Paul wrote: When you have a single cell, like my digital camera does, you can run those down to 0 volts. which digital camera might that be and what battery chemistry is this mystery single cell? regardless, that's a bad idea. The (provided) charger sets the policy. I checked the cell voltage before plugging the thing in to be charged. And it was right at zero volts on the multimeter. It charged up just fine. And that's probably the battery I took the picture with a couple hours ago. The camera is a Canon Powershot. Paul The battery type is Canon NB-11L. This is as close as I'm going to get to a datasheet. This is a third party replacement for it. http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/da...NON_NB_11L.pdf system: Lithium-Ion-Battery nominal voltage: 3.7V end charge voltage: 4.2V capacity after standard charge nominal: 600mAh The chemistry could be Lithium-Cobalt or Lithium-Manganese. http://batteryuniversity.com/index.p..._with_voltages Paul |
#35
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
In article , Paul
wrote: When you have a single cell, like my digital camera does, you can run those down to 0 volts. which digital camera might that be and what battery chemistry is this mystery single cell? regardless, that's a bad idea. The (provided) charger sets the policy. it determines the charge strategy, not the minimum cutoff voltage. I checked the cell voltage before plugging the thing in to be charged. And it was right at zero volts on the multimeter. It charged up just fine. And that's probably the battery I took the picture with a couple hours ago. then you did something wrong, or the battery is reporting 0v for some reason despite it not actually being 0v internally. li-ion batteries have multiple connectors to communicate to the device the charge level and sometimes other info, such as number of cycles, health status, etc. it's possible you used the wrong two pins, or the voltage is 0v unless the battery thinks it's actually in a camera (or other compatible device). The camera is a Canon Powershot. i was about to ask which powershot and which battery but you answered that, at least for the battery. In article , Paul wrote: The battery type is Canon NB-11L. that's a lithium ion battery pack, thus the 'l' in its name. lithium ion batteries have protection circuitry and *cannot* be discharged to 0v. they are considered fully discharged at around 3v. lower than that risks being unable to charge it at all, and if it's actually 0v, it's completely *dead* and cannot be recharged anymore. the protection circuitry also prevents overcharging, as bad things can happen. This is as close as I'm going to get to a datasheet. canon has some info: https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/battery-pack-nb-11lh This is a third party replacement for it. avoid, unless it's a well established battery vendor (i.e., not noname **** off ebay). aftermarket batteries tend to not be as reliable or as safe and frequently do not have the claimed capacity. if anything bad happens, canon will blame the battery (and rightly so). the better aftermarket batteries aren't that much cheaper than canon's own, so it's not worth it. |
#36
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
nospam wrote:
In article , Paul wrote: When you have a single cell, like my digital camera does, you can run those down to 0 volts. which digital camera might that be and what battery chemistry is this mystery single cell? regardless, that's a bad idea. The (provided) charger sets the policy. it determines the charge strategy, not the minimum cutoff voltage. I checked the cell voltage before plugging the thing in to be charged. And it was right at zero volts on the multimeter. It charged up just fine. And that's probably the battery I took the picture with a couple hours ago. then you did something wrong, or the battery is reporting 0v for some reason despite it not actually being 0v internally. li-ion batteries have multiple connectors to communicate to the device the charge level and sometimes other info, such as number of cycles, health status, etc. it's possible you used the wrong two pins, or the voltage is 0v unless the battery thinks it's actually in a camera (or other compatible device). The camera is a Canon Powershot. i was about to ask which powershot and which battery but you answered that, at least for the battery. In article , Paul wrote: The battery type is Canon NB-11L. that's a lithium ion battery pack, thus the 'l' in its name. lithium ion batteries have protection circuitry and *cannot* be discharged to 0v. they are considered fully discharged at around 3v. lower than that risks being unable to charge it at all, and if it's actually 0v, it's completely *dead* and cannot be recharged anymore. the protection circuitry also prevents overcharging, as bad things can happen. This is as close as I'm going to get to a datasheet. canon has some info: https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/battery-pack-nb-11lh This is a third party replacement for it. avoid, unless it's a well established battery vendor (i.e., not noname **** off ebay). aftermarket batteries tend to not be as reliable or as safe and frequently do not have the claimed capacity. if anything bad happens, canon will blame the battery (and rightly so). the better aftermarket batteries aren't that much cheaper than canon's own, so it's not worth it. I have two batteries total. The third-party battery is in the camera now, and has a voltage of 3.77 at the moment. The spare battery is Canon branded, and acquired at the same time as the third-party battery. The battery has three terminals. The outside two terminals are marked "-" and "+" for easy identification. A measurement three hours ago, shows the outer two terminals of the Canon reading zero again. I placed the Canon battery NB-11L in the Canon charger and 2.5 hours later or so, the "full" light came on. Measuring the outer two terminals registered 4.12V. Shooting about 10 minutes of video with the now-recharged dead battery, ran the battery down to around 3.93V or so. So it does appear the battery was dead (again), and is charged up (again). For how long, who knows. Paul |
#37
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
On June 24, I wrote:
[...] In addition to Paul's response - which covers most of the issues -, you might want to read the thread "charging to 80 or 90%" of March 16 in comp.mobile.android. That thread is about phones/tablets, but they use the same battery technology, so most is also applicable to laptops. The thread is only 122 articles, so an easy read! :-) Addendum: The "charging to 80 or 90%" also partly discusses laptop batteries and how to keep them charged between X and Y%. Posts in that thread mention that some brands have brand-specific power manager' software which allows the battery to be kept between X and Y%, or at least below Y%. A poster (Libor 'Poutnik') advises: quote For laptops, try Google ( replace .. by actual values ) "your vendor your model battery charge manager" or "your vendor your model power manager" or like that. /quote In article news describe that - and how - it should be possible to write general - non brand-specific - software to keep the charge between X and Y%, but I was and am not aware that such software actually exists. NY, which brand, model, etc..is your current laptop? (AFAIK, you didn't mention it and have not responded since your OP.) |
#38
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
In article , Paul
wrote: I have two batteries total. The third-party battery is in the camera now, and has a voltage of 3.77 at the moment. The spare battery is Canon branded, and acquired at the same time as the third-party battery. The battery has three terminals. The outside two terminals are marked "-" and "+" for easy identification. that's good. not all batteries have that. some have several pins, often unmarked: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/fgQAAOSwHnFViMeW/s-l1600.jpg A measurement three hours ago, shows the outer two terminals of the Canon reading zero again. that's because the protection circuitry shut it down so that the battery can't be used anymore when it's fully discharged (around 3v), which would cause it to discharge even further, thereby damaging it. the battery cells are *not* 0v. the protection circuitry prevents it. there's actually a little bit of headroom in the cutoff voltage because the battery will continue to self-discharge. I placed the Canon battery NB-11L in the Canon charger and 2.5 hours later or so, the "full" light came on. Measuring the outer two terminals registered 4.12V. Shooting about 10 minutes of video with the now-recharged dead battery, ran the battery down to around 3.93V or so. So it does appear the battery was dead (again), and is charged up (again). For how long, who knows. it appears you don't understand batteries. there is no way that a lithium ion battery will discharge to zero and then be able to recharge. |
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