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#316
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flawforces Linux, Windows redesign
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#317
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flawforces Linux, Windows redesign
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512 In article Electric Comet wrote: On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote: has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new processor without the design blunder. not a blunder it is deliberate I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel machines. So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by script kiddies. Paranoid Pete -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: N/A iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJaXDv+AAoJEM+eZGdm07bdGVYQAL3GXgkUmS FcfOI8CnKF6gnz h99VkIuM5HNPonhlUQAyYORRcK4frs8Lq+JZKYMPdzkpjKg28Q xs/iyEpufQVq6z 4VKCKXXXZsuYTE+Lyf6kVnTxhzsvVqSs76ABbM00EfPuu0+7hp RdRZn8NpgmwTXo FEXkILrN0PPcLufHzOn6HuPkQXApfpg9VwvAu5Pd3svH7eV7YD uRoj94T2vyHAxt SqZmSZxM+87+p3lXEN9riw0oezlKAcAShYetqoN2QNwIJ/1Sb9LYauw0PjJ6sCD/ xAeBcduA3CD3Q7gNM4jjA/7Wv0cthdsNhjtYPjVe7RZGRceFnkXt5Pve561b3OwI MS8wwzb1NwgdryZG/6WauFDXlVFi6FnuxdPiP+0bt4lDUr9vNB1f20PU6CQ1hy6J JZfCcXJYdOBiy2pNvu4g1j/GlUrM95wejZuG3AP4zKzmxxQHKfG0FJuS1wOIhbzu 1n71sqMFFE6M6oz/1sKCPC20s06sbu9N/bgq8kMEXNhO4rMjQtmWXUXSdI3504K6 T7oWILV7BGkGYzWWCvy2s3EXXSvmBCKfZvlrH9rcPtVGU4lj9t efYn0RdqHHfFXb oLH3HJNkJxpFi2dDct0epLekcyq1Yp+ZkLq8HUrBieX/eaZavJdC+29+k5c5cWiJ Pj4c6dMjirA1XX+NCOHm =YHue -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#318
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:22:46 +0000, Paranoid Pete
wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 In article Electric Comet wrote: On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote: has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new processor without the design blunder. not a blunder it is deliberate I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel machines. So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by script kiddies. For the time being, I have faith that AMD's processors don't have such backdoors. If that's the case, I will revert to the AMD loyalist I was before I bought my Core i3 laptop in 2010. |
#319
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign
On 2018-01-15 18:35:04 +0000, Doomsdrzej said:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:22:46 +0000, Paranoid Pete wrote: In article Electric Comet wrote: On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote: has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new processor without the design blunder. not a blunder it is deliberate I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel machines. So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by script kiddies. For the time being, I have faith that AMD's processors don't have such backdoors. If that's the case, I will revert to the AMD loyalist I was before I bought my Core i3 laptop in 2010. AMD has admitted that some of their chips also suffer from at least one of these recent bugs. It wouldn't be any surprise if AMD's chips also suffer from their own bugs too, but simply hasn't been noticed ... yet. ARM, Apple's A-series, and later PowerPC chips also have issues with thes bugs. The real problem is perhaps that many devices will never have a fix made available because the company making them considers the devices or OS simply "too old" to bother with. |
#320
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:20:32 +1300, Your Name
wrote: On 2018-01-15 18:35:04 +0000, Doomsdrzej said: On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:22:46 +0000, Paranoid Pete wrote: In article Electric Comet wrote: On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote: has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new processor without the design blunder. not a blunder it is deliberate I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel machines. So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by script kiddies. For the time being, I have faith that AMD's processors don't have such backdoors. If that's the case, I will revert to the AMD loyalist I was before I bought my Core i3 laptop in 2010. AMD has admitted that some of their chips also suffer from at least one of these recent bugs. It wouldn't be any surprise if AMD's chips also suffer from their own bugs too, but simply hasn't been noticed ... yet. ARM, Apple's A-series, and later PowerPC chips also have issues with thes bugs. The real problem is perhaps that many devices will never have a fix made available because the company making them considers the devices or OS simply "too old" to bother with. What I learned was that because my processor was released in 2013 (i7-4710HQ), the "fix" will slow down performance by double digits. Whether that means 10% or 50% is beyond me for the time being. Strangely, recent processors from Intel also suffer a slowdown but much in the range of 2 to 5%. To say the least, I'm not very impressed with Intel right now. |
#321
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flawforces Linux, Windows redesign
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2018-01-15, Doomsdrzej wrote: On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:20:32 +1300, Your Name wrote: On 2018-01-15 18:35:04 +0000, Doomsdrzej said: On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:22:46 +0000, Paranoid Pete wrote: In article Electric Comet wrote: On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote: has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new processor without the design blunder. not a blunder it is deliberate I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel machines. So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by script kiddies. For the time being, I have faith that AMD's processors don't have such backdoors. If that's the case, I will revert to the AMD loyalist I was before I bought my Core i3 laptop in 2010. AMD has admitted that some of their chips also suffer from at least one of these recent bugs. It wouldn't be any surprise if AMD's chips also suffer from their own bugs too, but simply hasn't been noticed ... yet. ARM, Apple's A-series, and later PowerPC chips also have issues with thes bugs. The real problem is perhaps that many devices will never have a fix made available because the company making them considers the devices or OS simply "too old" to bother with. What I learned was that because my processor was released in 2013 (i7-4710HQ), the "fix" will slow down performance by double digits. Whether that means 10% or 50% is beyond me for the time being. Strangely, recent processors from Intel also suffer a slowdown but much in the range of 2 to 5%. To say the least, I'm not very impressed with Intel right now. I'll wait for price drop to buy vulnerable CPU's -- press any key to continue or any other to quit... |
#322
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign
On 2018-01-16 00:01:17 +0000, Melzzzzz said:
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.] On 2018-01-15, Doomsdrzej wrote: On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:20:32 +1300, Your Name wrote: On 2018-01-15 18:35:04 +0000, Doomsdrzej said: On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:22:46 +0000, Paranoid Pete wrote: In article Electric Comet wrote: On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote: has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new processor without the design blunder. not a blunder it is deliberate I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel machines. So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by script kiddies. For the time being, I have faith that AMD's processors don't have such backdoors. If that's the case, I will revert to the AMD loyalist I was before I bought my Core i3 laptop in 2010. AMD has admitted that some of their chips also suffer from at least one of these recent bugs. It wouldn't be any surprise if AMD's chips also suffer from their own bugs too, but simply hasn't been noticed ... yet. ARM, Apple's A-series, and later PowerPC chips also have issues with thes bugs. The real problem is perhaps that many devices will never have a fix made available because the company making them considers the devices or OS simply "too old" to bother with. What I learned was that because my processor was released in 2013 (i7-4710HQ), the "fix" will slow down performance by double digits. Whether that means 10% or 50% is beyond me for the time being. Strangely, recent processors from Intel also suffer a slowdown but much in the range of 2 to 5%. To say the least, I'm not very impressed with Intel right now. I'll wait for price drop to buy vulnerable CPU's That may take a while. According to Intel, and probably the other makers too, the next few chip releases will still have the bug because they have already been designed and are being manufactured. (2020 might be the date quoted for when actual fixed CPUs *might* start shipping, but I may have that year wrong.) |
#323
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign
On 2018-01-15 23:40:58 +0000, Doomsdrzej said:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:20:32 +1300, Your Name wrote: On 2018-01-15 18:35:04 +0000, Doomsdrzej said: On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:22:46 +0000, Paranoid Pete wrote: In article Electric Comet wrote: On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote: has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new processor without the design blunder. not a blunder it is deliberate I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel machines. So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by script kiddies. For the time being, I have faith that AMD's processors don't have such backdoors. If that's the case, I will revert to the AMD loyalist I was before I bought my Core i3 laptop in 2010. AMD has admitted that some of their chips also suffer from at least one of these recent bugs. It wouldn't be any surprise if AMD's chips also suffer from their own bugs too, but simply hasn't been noticed ... yet. ARM, Apple's A-series, and later PowerPC chips also have issues with thes bugs. The real problem is perhaps that many devices will never have a fix made available because the company making them considers the devices or OS simply "too old" to bother with. What I learned was that because my processor was released in 2013 (i7-4710HQ), the "fix" will slow down performance by double digits. Whether that means 10% or 50% is beyond me for the time being. Strangely, recent processors from Intel also suffer a slowdown but much in the range of 2 to 5%. To say the least, I'm not very impressed with Intel right now. The actual amount of slow down depends on a lot of factors: your computer, the OS, the apps you use, what you do (simple word processing would be less affected than say complex 3D or video rednering), etc. Apple's fixes have reported had pretty much no noticeable affect ... so far. |
#324
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flawforces Linux, Windows redesign
Doomsdrzej wrote:
What I learned was that because my processor was released in 2013 (i7-4710HQ), the "fix" will slow down performance by double digits. If you're running it at 80% utilisation, you'll probably notice, if you're just using it for "officey stuff" like email, browsing and word/excel, you'll likely not even notice. |
#325
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flawforces Linux, Windows redesign
Your Name wrote:
The actual amount of slow down depends on a lot of factors: your computer, the OS, the apps you use, what you do (simple word processing would be less affected than say complex 3D or video rednering), etc. I wouldn't even say that e.g. rendering would notice, as it won't be doing very much context switching between user and kernel space, just hammering CPU/GPU in a tight loop all within user space. |
#326
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 13:36:28 +1300, Your Name
wrote: On 2018-01-15 23:40:58 +0000, Doomsdrzej said: On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:20:32 +1300, Your Name wrote: On 2018-01-15 18:35:04 +0000, Doomsdrzej said: On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:22:46 +0000, Paranoid Pete wrote: In article Electric Comet wrote: On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote: has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new processor without the design blunder. not a blunder it is deliberate I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel machines. So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by script kiddies. For the time being, I have faith that AMD's processors don't have such backdoors. If that's the case, I will revert to the AMD loyalist I was before I bought my Core i3 laptop in 2010. AMD has admitted that some of their chips also suffer from at least one of these recent bugs. It wouldn't be any surprise if AMD's chips also suffer from their own bugs too, but simply hasn't been noticed ... yet. ARM, Apple's A-series, and later PowerPC chips also have issues with thes bugs. The real problem is perhaps that many devices will never have a fix made available because the company making them considers the devices or OS simply "too old" to bother with. What I learned was that because my processor was released in 2013 (i7-4710HQ), the "fix" will slow down performance by double digits. Whether that means 10% or 50% is beyond me for the time being. Strangely, recent processors from Intel also suffer a slowdown but much in the range of 2 to 5%. To say the least, I'm not very impressed with Intel right now. The actual amount of slow down depends on a lot of factors: your computer, the OS, the apps you use, what you do (simple word processing would be less affected than say complex 3D or video rednering), etc. Apple's fixes have reported had pretty much no noticeable affect ... so far. Gaming seems not to be affected much for the time being which is refreshing for me. That's what I was most concerned about. All of the rest, I can live with a tiny slowdown. |
#327
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign
In article , Doomsdrzej
wrote: Gaming seems not to be affected much for the time being which is refreshing for me. That's what I was most concerned about. All of the rest, I can live with a tiny slowdown. https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...wn-spectre-slo wdowns-fix-processor-flaws-fortnite-epic-games Online video game Fortnite is one of the worst hit, with the gameケs creators attributing login issues and service instability to a 30 percentage point spike in processor use that occurred when the company installed the patches. https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/f...nts/132642-epi c-services-stability-update |
#328
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flawforces Linux, Windows redesign
In article
Bill Gunshannon wrote: On 01/06/2018 12:13 PM, DaveFroble wrote: Pabst Blue Ribbon wrote: DaveFroble wrote: Pabst Blue Ribbon wrote: Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote: Den 2018-01-06 kl. 00:01, skrev Pabst Blue Ribbon: [Why quote 100s of lines?] My newsreader is not that great with editing. I wonder if Intel will be sued because of that. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...cpu_flaw_sued/ "Here come the lawyers! Intel slapped with three Meltdown bug lawsuits!" Thank you. Just like I expected. Well, the lawyers will try anything.ツ* Doesn't mean they have a case. Lots of examples. Make liquor, somebody gets hurt .... Make guns, somebody gets shot .... Make cars, somebody gets hurt .... Make cars, cars do not perform as advertised or not as safe as expected, have to do a recall. Unless you are Ford with the Pinto fuel tank problem. The person who came up with the idea that it would be cheaper to pay off the law suits than to do a recall and fix the problem is most likely alive and well in too many companies.ツ* As soon as you put money ahead of people, there is a problem.ツ* We hang murderers, why not those who are worse? Dave, you live in PA. PA does not execute anyone. They punish them by making the taxpayers support them for the rest of their lives to include things like TV, gym facilities, college degrees, full medical coverage. And many more things the average taxpayer can't afford. Thank Democrats, because murderers have rights above and beyond those of their victims. |
#329
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flawforces Linux, Windows redesign
On 01/20/2018 06:28 AM, Rick Rohme wrote:
In article Bill Gunshannon wrote: On 01/06/2018 12:13 PM, DaveFroble wrote: Pabst Blue Ribbon wrote: DaveFroble wrote: Pabst Blue Ribbon wrote: Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote: Den 2018-01-06 kl. 00:01, skrev Pabst Blue Ribbon: [Why quote 100s of lines?] My newsreader is not that great with editing. I wonder if Intel will be sued because of that. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...cpu_flaw_sued/ "Here come the lawyers! Intel slapped with three Meltdown bug lawsuits!" Thank you. Just like I expected. Well, the lawyers will try anything.テつ* Doesn't mean they have a case. Lots of examples. Make liquor, somebody gets hurt .... Make guns, somebody gets shot .... Make cars, somebody gets hurt .... Make cars, cars do not perform as advertised or not as safe as expected, have to do a recall. Unless you are Ford with the Pinto fuel tank problem. The person who came up with the idea that it would be cheaper to pay off the law suits than to do a recall and fix the problem is most likely alive and well in too many companies.テつ* As soon as you put money ahead of people, there is a problem.テつ* We hang murderers, why not those who are worse? Dave, you live in PA. PA does not execute anyone. They punish them by making the taxpayers support them for the rest of their lives to include things like TV, gym facilities, college degrees, full medical coverage. And many more things the average taxpayer can't afford. Thank Democrats, because murderers have rights above and beyond those of their victims. Preaching to the choir... bill |
#330
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Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flawforces Linux, Windows redesign
In article
Bill Gunshannon wrote: On 01/20/2018 06:28 AM, Rick Rohme wrote: In article Bill Gunshannon wrote: On 01/06/2018 12:13 PM, DaveFroble wrote: Pabst Blue Ribbon wrote: DaveFroble wrote: Pabst Blue Ribbon wrote: Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote: Den 2018-01-06 kl. 00:01, skrev Pabst Blue Ribbon: [Why quote 100s of lines?] My newsreader is not that great with editing. I wonder if Intel will be sued because of that. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...cpu_flaw_sued/ "Here come the lawyers! Intel slapped with three Meltdown bug lawsuits!" Thank you. Just like I expected. Well, the lawyers will try anything.テつ Doesn't mean they have a case. Lots of examples. Make liquor, somebody gets hurt .... Make guns, somebody gets shot .... Make cars, somebody gets hurt .... Make cars, cars do not perform as advertised or not as safe as expected, have to do a recall. Unless you are Ford with the Pinto fuel tank problem. The person who came up with the idea that it would be cheaper to pay off the law suits than to do a recall and fix the problem is most likely alive and well in too many companies.テつ As soon as you put money ahead of people, there is a problem.テつ We hang murderers, why not those who are worse? Dave, you live in PA. PA does not execute anyone. They punish them by making the taxpayers support them for the rest of their lives to include things like TV, gym facilities, college degrees, full medical coverage. And many more things the average taxpayer can't afford. Thank Democrats, because murderers have rights above and beyond those of their victims. Preaching to the choir... bill |
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