Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed?

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

The URL that I gave to Microsoft's article didn't help you to figure
out to compact?

No, it didn't.

You did not find the Compact Now option? Looks like the same place
noted at:

https://www.msoutlook.info/question/...ow-pst-and-ost
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/compa...x-size-outlook

https://www.slipstick.com/outlook/co...close-outlook/

I've added the sub-key and DWORD that recommends. Still no joy; the
only difference is that now, whenever starting Outlook, it asks me to
select my profile, from the drop-down list of one.

From the name of the registry key and data name, might be it only works
to compact a PST file (used for POP accounts) on Outlook's exit. IMAP
accounts use an OST file.

In an elevated command shell, enter:

reg query HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Office\16.0\Outlook\PST /v "PSTNullFreeOnClose"

The double-quotes may not be needed; however, so many data items have
spaces in their names that I use double-quotes by habit.

If the data item was defined under the 16.0\Outlook\PST node (for
Outlook 365), the query would return it in the output, and show a data
type of REG_DWORD. If the data item isn't in the queried location, you
see "ERROR: ... unable to find ...", so it wasn't created in the correct
spot in the registry.

Since the registry is edited in the files, but a memory copy is loaded
when Windows starts and it is the memory copy that programs use via the
registry API, I usually hit F5 (refresh) after editing the registry to
get the file copies loaded into the memory copy. If I want to edit more
in the registry, I hit F5 after every edit to refresh the registry, so
any other keys or data items that I'm looking will also reflect the
change, or reflect that I deleted an entry. Or I restart Windows to get
it to load the file copy into memory. Editing the file copy won't
affect programs that are reading from the memory copy. Since registry
edit is under the HKCU hive, you could just logout and login to your
Windows account instead of restarting Windows. regedit.exe does not
issue an F5 (refresh) after editing a registry key (change name, delete)
or data item (change name, delete) or its value. You could edit it
under the HKCU hive but the old stuff is still listed under HKU, until
you refresh or reload.

As for asking which profile to load when Outlook starts, looks like no
profile was selected as the default. Users that maintain multiple
profiles sometimes want that prompt, so they can pick which one to use
during a session of Outlook.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...7-8313b431803c
https://support.microsoft.com/en-ie/...5-3e26ea475d25

On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 at 14:45:30, VanguardLH wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

The URL that I gave to Microsoft's article didn't help you to figure
out to compact?

No, it didn't.

You did not find the Compact Now option? Looks like the same place
noted at:

https://www.msoutlook.info/question/...ow-pst-and-ost
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/compa...x-size-outlook


https://www.slipstick.com/outlook/co...the-data-file-
when-you-close-outlook/

I've added the sub-key and DWORD that recommends. Still no joy; the
only difference is that now, whenever starting Outlook, it asks me to
select my profile, from the drop-down list of one.

From the name of the registry key and data name, might be it only works
to compact a PST file (used for POP accounts) on Outlook's exit. IMAP
accounts use an OST file.

The article did say it worked for both PST and OST files.
[]
As for asking which profile to load when Outlook starts, looks like no

It's not doing that _every_ time. I thought it had stopped asking, but
on restarting the laptop after replacing the screen after falling on it
(they don't make laptops like they used to!), it asked again. Maybe it's
only after a PC reset.

profile was selected as the default. Users that maintain multiple
profiles sometimes want that prompt, so they can pick which one to use
during a session of Outlook.

(You'd think it'd know not to bother when the drop-down list only has
one in it though!)
[]
Anyway, further wrinkles! Someone suggest I saved the message as a file
("exported" it). The only way I could see - I couldn't see a "save" or
"export" option - was to "copy" it (that option _is_ there), and then
"paste" it in explorer.

It was an email that showed as about 150K, containing an about 100K
extension. Saving it did indeed produce an about 150K file; removing the
attachment and then saving it, produced a less than 50K file.

But, just for curiosity, I tried dragging the 150K file (i. e. "saved"
_with_ the extension) back into the Inbox - and it appeared as an email
now of about 120K! Yes, an intermediate size.

I give up; it's not a problem (parish council business rarely involves
video files, so I'll just let the various files pile up, or not - it's
IMAP, so they might not even be on the laptop at all anyway: I've given
up caring).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

They'd never heard of me; they didn't like me; they didn't like my speech;
they tutted and clucked and looked at their watches and eventually I sat down
to a thunderous lack of applause. - Barry Norman (on preceding Douglas Bader),
in RT 6-12 July 2013

On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 21:11:27 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 at 14:45:30, VanguardLH wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

The URL that I gave to Microsoft's article didn't help you to figure
out to compact?

No, it didn't.

You did not find the Compact Now option? Looks like the same place
noted at:

https://www.msoutlook.info/question/...ow-pst-and-ost
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/compa...x-size-outlook


https://www.slipstick.com/outlook/co...the-data-file-
when-you-close-outlook/

I've added the sub-key and DWORD that recommends. Still no joy; the
only difference is that now, whenever starting Outlook, it asks me to
select my profile, from the drop-down list of one.

From the name of the registry key and data name, might be it only works
to compact a PST file (used for POP accounts) on Outlook's exit. IMAP
accounts use an OST file.

The article did say it worked for both PST and OST files.
[]
As for asking which profile to load when Outlook starts, looks like no

It's not doing that _every_ time. I thought it had stopped asking, but
on restarting the laptop after replacing the screen after falling on it
(they don't make laptops like they used to!), it asked again. Maybe it's
only after a PC reset.

profile was selected as the default. Users that maintain multiple
profiles sometimes want that prompt, so they can pick which one to use
during a session of Outlook.

(You'd think it'd know not to bother when the drop-down list only has
one in it though!)
[]
Anyway, further wrinkles! Someone suggest I saved the message as a file
("exported" it). The only way I could see - I couldn't see a "save" or
"export" option - was to "copy" it (that option _is_ there), and then
"paste" it in explorer.

File menu, then Save As. You have several format options there.

I see that you've stopped caring, though. :-)

On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 15:31:33, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 21:11:27 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:
[]
Anyway, further wrinkles! Someone suggest I saved the message as a file
("exported" it). The only way I could see - I couldn't see a "save" or
"export" option - was to "copy" it (that option _is_ there), and then
"paste" it in explorer.

File menu, then Save As. You have several format options there.

I see that you've stopped caring, though. :-)


Yes, File | Save As is more or less a "meme" in Windows softwares. But
in Office 365, clicking on the top left menu heading - I think it _is_
"File" - completely replaces the normal screen, taking you into a sort
of vaguely control-panel-like thing where you can change all sorts of
things. (Or does in Windows 10, anyway.) I was at a loss what had
happened the first few times I did it; there's a left-pointing arrow in
a circle near the top left, that (in Outlook, anyway - I've not really
played with the other bits of Office 365) takes you back to the normal
Outlook (or most other email software) three-pane screen (list of
folders, list of emails, preview pane).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

They'd never heard of me; they didn't like me; they didn't like my speech;
they tutted and clucked and looked at their watches and eventually I sat down
to a thunderous lack of applause. - Barry Norman (on preceding Douglas Bader),
in RT 6-12 July 2013

On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 21:45:46 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 15:31:33, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 21:11:27 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:
[]
Anyway, further wrinkles! Someone suggest I saved the message as a file
("exported" it). The only way I could see - I couldn't see a "save" or
"export" option - was to "copy" it (that option _is_ there), and then
"paste" it in explorer.

File menu, then Save As. You have several format options there.

I see that you've stopped caring, though. :-)


Yes, File | Save As is more or less a "meme" in Windows softwares. But
in Office 365, clicking on the top left menu heading - I think it _is_
"File" - completely replaces the normal screen, taking you into a sort
of vaguely control-panel-like thing where you can change all sorts of
things. (Or does in Windows 10, anyway.) I was at a loss what had
happened the first few times I did it; there's a left-pointing arrow in
a circle near the top left, that (in Outlook, anyway - I've not really
played with the other bits of Office 365) takes you back to the normal
Outlook (or most other email software) three-pane screen (list of
folders, list of emails, preview pane).

Yes, that's normal for Office applications. It's been a long time and I
don't remember if it threw me at the time, but it probably did.

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

Anyway, further wrinkles! Someone suggest I saved the message as a
file ("exported" it). The only way I could see - I couldn't see a
"save" or "export" option - was to "copy" it (that option _is_
there), and then "paste" it in explorer.

It was an email that showed as about 150K, containing an about 100K
extension. Saving it did indeed produce an about 150K file; removing
the attachment and then saving it, produced a less than 50K file.

But, just for curiosity, I tried dragging the 150K file (i. e.
"saved" _with_ the extension) back into the Inbox - and it appeared
as an email now of about 120K! Yes, an intermediate size.

Binary files are encoded into a long text string in a MIME section of
the e-mail. *ALL* e-mails get sent as text, including binary
attachments. The encoding to text enlarges the message by about 137%,
or more, of its original size. You might add an 85K binary attachment
(to a message of just a few bytes long), but the encoding into text will
enlarge it to, say, 120K for a very long text string that gets placed
into a MIME section within the body of the message.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_...chnical_detail

The polite way of sending HTML-formatted e-mails is to included a
text-only section (separately or in a text/plain MIME part) along with
the HTML version (in a text/html MIME part). That is, for HTML e-mails,
there should be two copies of the message. That way, recipients using
HTML-capable e-mail clients can read your message, but so can recipients
using text-only e-mail clients. Of course, if you don't use HTML and
send as text only, only 1 copy of the message is in the e-mail. I don't
have a copy of Outlook 2016/2019 to see what gets imported when dragging
in a message file that has both text/plain and text/html MIME parts.

As I recall, export was on the entire message store when attempting such
from the main GUI window. Some options are not available until you
/open/ the message. While the Preview pane does have the message open,
you need to double-click on a message to open in its own new window.
Then the toolbars or menues have additions options. I think that's you
got to the Edit Message option, so maybe there's a Save or Export option
on just the opened message.

On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 18:36:11, VanguardLH wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

Anyway, further wrinkles! Someone suggest I saved the message as a
file ("exported" it). The only way I could see - I couldn't see a
"save" or "export" option - was to "copy" it (that option _is_
there), and then "paste" it in explorer.

It was an email that showed as about 150K, containing an about 100K
extension. Saving it did indeed produce an about 150K file; removing
the attachment and then saving it, produced a less than 50K file.

It was an email where (as is usual these days) the text was in all sorts
of fonts etc.; as Outlook doesn't make it easy to tell, I don't know if
it was a two-part email (see below). The _nominal_ attachment - i. e.
the one that Outlook admitted was there - was a PDF.

But, just for curiosity, I tried dragging the 150K file (i. e.
"saved" _with_ the extension) back into the Inbox - and it appeared
as an email now of about 120K! Yes, an intermediate size.

Binary files are encoded into a long text string in a MIME section of
the e-mail. *ALL* e-mails get sent as text, including binary
attachments. The encoding to text enlarges the message by about 137%,
or more, of its original size. You might add an 85K binary attachment
(to a message of just a few bytes long), but the encoding into text will
enlarge it to, say, 120K for a very long text string that gets placed
into a MIME section within the body of the message.

I know all that: I remember when UUcode was the default, and MIME a
novelty! (MIME is now the default, and many modern email prog.s don't
even know how to decode UUcode.)
[]
The polite way of sending HTML-formatted e-mails is to included a
text-only section (separately or in a text/plain MIME part) along with
the HTML version (in a text/html MIME part). That is, for HTML e-mails,
there should be two copies of the message. That way, recipients using

Agreed.

HTML-capable e-mail clients can read your message, but so can recipients
using text-only e-mail clients. Of course, if you don't use HTML and

(My client provides buttons so I can choose which to read; I usually
read the plain-text one.)

Some companies have email software that still sends both parts, but the
users at that company are not aware of that fact. And, a recent wrinkle
has been that they can break, such that the plain text part is _not_ the
same text as the HTML part; I had one within the last day, from a large
company, saying they'd extended their offer - to April 2020 (it is now
late July 2020); it was only when I looked at the HTML part that I found
a mention of August. (I only looked because I've seen this before.)

send as text only, only 1 copy of the message is in the e-mail. I don't
have a copy of Outlook 2016/2019 to see what gets imported when dragging
in a message file that has both text/plain and text/html MIME parts.

Just seemed odd that when I copied the email from Outlook to an Explorer
window, then dragged it back, it was (or rather showed in Explorer as)
slightly smaller. I suppose it _could_ have lost the plain text part, if
there was one, keeping the HTML part and the (PDF) attachment.

As I recall, export was on the entire message store when attempting such
from the main GUI window. Some options are not available until you
/open/ the message. While the Preview pane does have the message open,
you need to double-click on a message to open in its own new window.
Then the toolbars or menues have additions options. I think that's you
got to the Edit Message option, so maybe there's a Save or Export option
on just the opened message.

True, I don't think I tried from an open message window. Certainly from
the default message list pane, the only option I could see was "save".
But then I use Outlook with distaste - it's what's on the provided
laptop and what my fellow councillors use, so it's not worth fighting
it, but it certainly wouldn't be my choice of email client. (Not sure
what would - probably a middling version of Thunderbird.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Anything you add for security will slow the computer but it shouldn't be
significant or prolonged. Security software is to protect the computer, not
the primary use of the computer.
- VanguardLH in alt.windows7.general, 2018-1-28

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

It was an email where (as is usual these days) the text was in all
sorts of fonts etc.; as Outlook doesn't make it easy to tell, I don't
know if it was a two-part email (see below). The _nominal_ attachment
- i. e. the one that Outlook admitted was there - was a PDF.

As I recall, Outlook stores the messages in its database. The problem
is that the e-mail's original raw content is stored in the message store
aka database, and no longer available in its original format. I used an
extension called PocketKnife Peek that might've let me see the raw
content, but it's been too long to remember. In any case, I could still
go to my e-mail client using the provider's webmail client, and they had
a View Source or similar function to let me see the raw content (all the
text in the e-mail: headers, space line delimiter, all the message as
text along with any MIME parts).

Some companies have email software that still sends both parts, but
the users at that company are not aware of that fact. And, a recent
wrinkle has been that they can break, such that the plain text part
is _not_ the same text as the HTML part; I had one within the last
day, from a large company, saying they'd extended their offer - to
April 2020 (it is now late July 2020); it was only when I looked at
the HTML part that I found a mention of August. (I only looked
because I've seen this before.)

Even Microsoft was at fault when their Hotmail service, when using
their webmail client, only included the HTML MIME part, and users had
no option there to send as plain-text only. I, and several others,
complained about their webmail client not including both the text and
HTML MIME parts. Took over a year before they fixed it. I haven't
tested it lately to see if they reverted to their old way since I
rarely use webmail clients to send e-mails.

Alas, Outlook 2003 switched to using a stub of Word. They dumped their
prior editor and moved to winword.exe (a stripped down or stub portion).
This broke some old features: GIFs were no longer animated, Flash
objects shows as a red "X", and HTML accessibility support got broken.
Supposedly those were due to security concerns. An animated GIF (rather
than just showing the first frame) was a security risk? The Word stub
was included with Outlook, so you didn't have to install Word to have
Outlook use the Word stub.

The result is Outlook pukes a bunch of Word-based directives into the
HTML part when sending a message. Only Word knows what the directives
mean. The result is HTML-formatted e-mails using Outlook end up with a
bunch of garbage that no other e-mail client will know how to use. You
get an e-mail from a sender using Outlook, look at the raw content, and
wonder "What the **** are all these Word-specific directives as comment
blocks in the HTML MIME part that only Word recognizes.

https://stackoverflow.design/email/base/mso/
https://medium.com/tealmedia/creatin...ls-e0e4866c3f8

As I recall, there were also MSO tags that weren't inside of comment
blocks. The HTML message had all this MSO crap that was meaningless to
all e-mail clients except Outlook. I faintly recall you could go into
Word's options to disable some of this MSO crap, but it's been too long
to remember if editing Word's options (if installed) would effect the
Word stub that Outlook uses. This is aking to Outlook attaching a
winmail.dat file onto an e-mail to carry along the Word-specific
formatting or definitions, so recipients would wonder what the **** was
this winmail.dat attachment that meant nothing to their e-mail client.

https://www.fastmetrics.com/support/...mail-dat-file/
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ges-in-outlook

Like Google flaunting their size to screw with the POP and IMAP
protocols (why I call them gPOP and gIMAP), Microsoft figured it could
play with e-mail, HTML, and MIME however they want because of their
domination in the e-mail client market, especially for businesses.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 at 08:38:35, VanguardLH wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

It was an email where (as is usual these days) the text was in all
sorts of fonts etc.; as Outlook doesn't make it easy to tell, I don't
know if it was a two-part email (see below). The _nominal_ attachment
- i. e. the one that Outlook admitted was there - was a PDF.

As I recall, Outlook stores the messages in its database. The problem
is that the e-mail's original raw content is stored in the message store
aka database, and no longer available in its original format. I used an
extension called PocketKnife Peek that might've let me see the raw
content, but it's been too long to remember. In any case, I could still
go to my e-mail client using the provider's webmail client, and they had
a View Source or similar function to let me see the raw content (all the
text in the e-mail: headers, space line delimiter, all the message as
text along with any MIME parts).

My/this email client (Turnpike) has an Export function, and also a view
raw function (same effect other than it doesn't involve a filename).

Some companies have email software that still sends both parts, but
the users at that company are not aware of that fact. And, a recent
wrinkle has been that they can break, such that the plain text part
is _not_ the same text as the HTML part; I had one within the last
day, from a large company, saying they'd extended their offer - to
April 2020 (it is now late July 2020); it was only when I looked at
the HTML part that I found a mention of August. (I only looked
because I've seen this before.)

Even Microsoft was at fault when their Hotmail service, when using
their webmail client, only included the HTML MIME part, and users had
no option there to send as plain-text only. I, and several others,
complained about their webmail client not including both the text and
HTML MIME parts. Took over a year before they fixed it. I haven't

I'm surprised they did at all.

tested it lately to see if they reverted to their old way since I
rarely use webmail clients to send e-mails.

Alas, Outlook 2003 switched to using a stub of Word. They dumped their
prior editor and moved to winword.exe (a stripped down or stub portion).
This broke some old features: GIFs were no longer animated, Flash
objects shows as a red "X", and HTML accessibility support got broken.
Supposedly those were due to security concerns. An animated GIF (rather
than just showing the first frame) was a security risk? The Word stub
was included with Outlook, so you didn't have to install Word to have
Outlook use the Word stub.

I wouldn't mind if it degraded gracefully/was backwards compatible. But
as you've discovered:

The result is Outlook pukes a bunch of Word-based directives into the
HTML part when sending a message. Only Word knows what the directives
mean. The result is HTML-formatted e-mails using Outlook end up with a
bunch of garbage that no other e-mail client will know how to use. You
get an e-mail from a sender using Outlook, look at the raw content, and
wonder "What the **** are all these Word-specific directives as comment
blocks in the HTML MIME part that only Word recognizes.
[]
As I recall, there were also MSO tags that weren't inside of comment
blocks. The HTML message had all this MSO crap that was meaningless to
all e-mail clients except Outlook. I faintly recall you could go into
[]
Like Google flaunting their size to screw with the POP and IMAP
protocols (why I call them gPOP and gIMAP), Microsoft figured it could
play with e-mail, HTML, and MIME however they want because of their
domination in the e-mail client market, especially for businesses.

And they're right; they can do whatever they like (and not just in
email), because of their dominance.

I've given up fighting - I use Outlook for council business. But I fear
that if I ever went into business, I'd need to use - or at least accept
and be able to deal with - it there too )-:.

(To revert to the subject line: I really only asked what happened to the
_displayed_ size in case someone actually _knew_ - and because I
remembered when using an _older_ version of Outlook, the displayed size
[of an email] _did_ fall when I removed an attachment. Seems nobody
[here, anyway] _does_ know. I should have said "don't put effort into
finding the answer if you don't know - it's only idle curiosity", or
something like that.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Hadrian's Wall has never been a border between Scotland and England. It lies
entirely within England but, when it was built in AD 122 by the Romans as a
defence against the raiding Picts, the future English were still in Germany
and the Scottish were still in Ireland.
- Michael Cullen, Skye, in RT 2014/12/6-12