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#1
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/shipping-a-linux-kernel-with-windows/ "Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer, we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel" "The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19" Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes. Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527870/microsoft-windows-terminal-command-line-tool |
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#2
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
Arlen G. Holder wrote:
Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/shipping-a-linux-kernel-with-windows/ "Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer, we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel" "The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19" Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes. Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527870/microsoft-windows-terminal-command-line-tool This is WSL as originally launched. https://msdnshared.blob.core.windows.../04/serial.png Whereas this new thing, I see mention of... "Where WSL translated Linux syscalls into corresponding Windows APIs, WSL 2 runs a very lightweight Hyper-V VM (the same type we use for Hyper-V isolated containers) with a full Linux kernel so there is no syscall translation occurring. It addresses many of the top feature requests (file system performance and ABI compatibility) and puts us on an architectural path to address many more." "Individual Linux distros can be run either as a WSL 1 distro, or as a WSL 2 distro, can be upgraded or downgraded at any time, and you can run WSL 1 and WSL 2 distros side by side. WSL 2 uses an entirely new architecture that uses a real Linux kernel." So does this mean it will only run on machines with EPT/SLAT ? Because that was a requirement for desktop Hyper-V operation. So they've changed WSL translated Linux syscalls into WSL2 has a real Linux kernel, trapped in Hyper-V, talking to a Hyper-V translation layer of some kind. And a commenter from the announcement mentions IIRC VirtualBox =6.0 can run with Hyper-V present, it uses HV as the execution backend. so this scheme may not be as disruptive as it could have been. It's shaping up to be an "opportunity to wedge Hyper-V into desktops". Even though, as far as I know, EPT/SLAT is still an issue for the average user. The first (and last) time I tried to install Hyper-V, that's what blocked it. I recollect hearing of this "Hyper-V isolated containers" being used for some other purpose, so it wasn't created just for this project. https://www.howtogeek.com/402569/eve...l-2019-update/ "Windows Sandbox for Professional Users" "The Sandbox is only available on Professional, Enterprise, and Education editions of Windows, so Home users will have to pay to upgrade from Home to Pro to install and use the sandbox." [golly-gee] As for Hyper-V, well, we don't really know at the block diagram level, exactly what is underneath Windows 10 at the moment (i.e. when Hyper-V is not visible). It could be hamsters and a big hamster wheel. https://social.technet.microsoft.com...etfile/1146656 This is an older picture of the same thing. Only this one doesn't reference processor rings. https://web.archive.org/web/20160224...bts.10%29.aspx This announcement of "has its own kernel", ignores the scaffolding underneath it. It's part of some larger plan. Paul |
#3
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/shipping-a-linux-kernel-with-windows/ "Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer, we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel" "The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19" Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes. Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527870/microsoft-windows-terminal-command-line-tool Embrace, extend, and extinguish. -- Wildman GNU/Linux user #557453 The cow died so I don't need your bull! |
#4
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
On May 7, 2019, Wildman wrote
(in ): On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote: Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/comma...ernel-with-win dows/ "Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer, we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel" "The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19" Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes. Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18...terminal-comma nd-line-tool Embrace, extend, and extinguish. Except this isn’t the way to accomplish that. To embrace truly, Microsoft would need to make their own Linux distribution. To extend, they’d have to offer something on top of that which convinced users like you, to use Microsoft’s version of Linux. And to finally extinguish, their Linux would have to be so popular that everyone else sees their communities fall, their users migrate, and their reason for doing any of this work gone. Had IBM not bought RedHat, and Microsoft bought them instead. They could have created the foundation for the embrace step. They would have eliminated a major Linux distributor and put themselves in a position to truly embrace very quickly. Embracing Linux doesn’t look too difficult to me.Azure is a better embrace than Windows. -- Beedle |
#5
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256 Beedle wrote: On May 7, 2019, Wildman wrote (in ): [..] Embrace, extend, and extinguish. Except this isn’t the way to accomplish that. To embrace truly, Microsoft would need to make their own Linux distribution. To extend, they’d have to offer something on top of that which convinced users like you, to use Microsoft’s version of Linux. And to finally extinguish, their Linux would have to be so popular that everyone else sees their communities fall, their users migrate, and their reason for doing any of this work gone. sounds a lot like systemd. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAlzRrq cACgkQjhHd8xJ5 ooHXbAf8Czx1xFVdYLAepTjbU/9FmvNZFCgLXpuRXNyIlkjCvf8r4t96GkMLwjXt jPoolqaFcdKppQXmY68n8I0gfI8BClH9Xewi9Th4FBDF6kE3Dp 2bgDrd5e1myyTp FEeOd+57WN8FXIxBi63o9PsAAd2+0Ix1GFvPyfv+ruEb6fhwI6 wC0XTqaZNqFFof c56NtrWxpbbsa4UElaTDqJ0dvCdtTR1D49OsrXZePrzWRig8VN zXL5T5zGBitU6p Mq4I6ctXAfEUU9lPyUzug4DW4xiWKbXsRvsMsX2qDjvY9ifVWa KmmsIhFhX3EBZy T4m5V17yxG+dMICS/w2SLW6FwMK0hw== =A8Wg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281 |
#6
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
On 07/05/19 17:24, Wildman wrote:
On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote: Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/shipping-a-linux-kernel-with-windows/ "Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer, we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel" "The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19" Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes. Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527870/microsoft-windows-terminal-command-line-tool Embrace, extend, and extinguish. maybe shrink a bit, imho they'll never be able to rebuild TRUST, which is the most needed feature of any piece of SW (and not only sw), again imho -- 1) Resistere, resistere, resistere. 2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti Soviet_Mario - (aka Gatto_Vizzato) |
#7
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
On 07/05/2019 14.39, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10 "Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer, we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel" "The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19" Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes. First step to switch to a proper kernel in ms-windows |
#8
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
Beedle wrote:
On May 7, 2019, Wildman wrote (in ): On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote: Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/comma...ernel-with-win dows/ "Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer, we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel" "The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19" Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes. Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18...terminal-comma nd-line-tool Embrace, extend, and extinguish. Except this isn’t the way to accomplish that. To embrace truly, Microsoft would need to make their own Linux distribution. Windows 10 with their own Linux kernel is their own distro. To extend, they’d have to offer something on top of that which convinced users like you, to use Microsoft’s version of Linux. You mean like office? And to finally extinguish, their Linux would have to be so popular that everyone else sees their communities fall, their users migrate, and their reason for doing any of this work gone. If windows were upgraded with a Linux kernel, then it'd effectively be the most popular Linux on the planet. |
#9
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
In article , Chris
wrote: If windows were upgraded with a Linux kernel, then it'd effectively be the most popular Linux on the planet. it won't beat android. |
#10
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
On 2019-05-07, Chris wrote:
Beedle wrote: On May 7, 2019, Wildman wrote (in ): On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote: Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/comma...ernel-with-win dows/ "Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer, we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel" "The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19" Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes. Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18...terminal-comma nd-line-tool Embrace, extend, and extinguish. Except this isn’t the way to accomplish that. To embrace truly, Microsoft would need to make their own Linux distribution. Windows 10 with their own Linux kernel is their own distro. To extend, they’d have to offer something on top of that which convinced users like you, to use Microsoft’s version of Linux. You mean like office? And to finally extinguish, their Linux would have to be so popular that everyone else sees their communities fall, their users migrate, and their reason for doing any of this work gone. If windows were upgraded with a Linux kernel, then it'd effectively be the most popular Linux on the planet. The probabliity is zero. They make their money not only by selling their OS, and all of the programs. To make all of the programs running under the kernel compatible with GPL2 would make their offering far different from what it is now. |
#11
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
On May 7, 2019, Chris wrote
(in article ): Beedle wrote: On May 7, 2019, Wildman wrote (in ): On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote: Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/comma...-kernel-with-w in dows/ "Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer, we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel" "The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19" Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes. Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18...s-terminal-com ma nd-line-tool Embrace, extend, and extinguish. Except this isn’t the way to accomplish that. To embrace truly, Microsoft would need to make their own Linux distribution. Windows 10 with their own Linux kernel is their own distro. Not the traditional Linux, but I am thinking more of an analog to what Apple did with NeXT. There should be a single kernel. The Linux kernel. To extend, they’d have to offer something on top of that which convinced users like you, to use Microsoft’s version of Linux. You mean like office? Office on Linux could be huge. And to finally extinguish, their Linux would have to be so popular that everyone else sees their communities fall, their users migrate, and their reason for doing any of this work gone. If windows were upgraded with a Linux kernel, then it'd effectively be the most popular Linux on the planet. Well, if no one uses it, how can it be popular? Just being there doesn’t make it popular just like Chess game that comes with the Mac is on everything, but if no one plays it, it’s not popular. It needs to be more than just “there”. -- Beedle |
#12
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
On 07/05/2019 21.38, William Unruh wrote:
On 2019-05-07, Chris wrote: Beedle wrote: On May 7, 2019, Wildman wrote (in ): On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote: Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/comma...ernel-with-win dows/ "Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer, we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel" "The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19" Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes. Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18...terminal-comma nd-line-tool Embrace, extend, and extinguish. Except this isn’t the way to accomplish that. To embrace truly, Microsoft would need to make their own Linux distribution. Windows 10 with their own Linux kernel is their own distro. To extend, they’d have to offer something on top of that which convinced users like you, to use Microsoft’s version of Linux. You mean like office? And to finally extinguish, their Linux would have to be so popular that everyone else sees their communities fall, their users migrate, and their reason for doing any of this work gone. If windows were upgraded with a Linux kernel, then it'd effectively be the most popular Linux on the planet. The probabliity is zero. They make their money not only by selling their OS, and all of the programs. To make all of the programs running under the kernel compatible with GPL2 would make their offering far different from what it is now. The Kernel GPL2 license is no problem for closed source products, linking "against the kernel" do not cause the license to spread, there is an exception for that. So replacing the glibc whit say ulibc and add on a custom user land tools or use the BSD ones and suddenly you have a perfect environment to build your closed source distribution. There been people within the microsoft development organization who has suggested to scrap the mcirosoft windows kernel and move to the Linux kernel, port all the applications of value, some even estimated that it could have been done in 6 months (I do think it had taken a lot longer), but cancer-man Ballmer didn't really like the idea. -- //Aho |
#13
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
On Tue, 07 May 2019 10:24:42 -0500, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Wildman
wrote: On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote: Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/shipping-a-linux-kernel-with-windows/ "Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer, we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel" "The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19" Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes. Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527870/microsoft-windows-terminal-command-line-tool Embrace, extend, and extinguish. DOS ain't done till Lotus won't run. Any other Microsoftisms? -- Zag No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten |
#14
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
On Tue, 07 May 2019 16:27:19 -0500, Zaghadka wrote:
On Tue, 07 May 2019 10:24:42 -0500, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Wildman wrote: On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote: Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/shipping-a-linux-kernel-with-windows/ "Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer, we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel" "The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19" Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes. Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527870/microsoft-windows-terminal-command-line-tool Embrace, extend, and extinguish. DOS ain't done till Lotus won't run. Any other Microsoftisms? How ya been Zag? I has been awhile. -- Wildman GNU/Linux user #557453 The cow died so I don't need your bull! |
#15
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Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
J.O. Aho wrote:
On 07/05/2019 21.38, William Unruh wrote: On 2019-05-07, Chris wrote: Beedle wrote: On May 7, 2019, Wildman wrote (in ): On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote: Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/comma...ernel-with-win dows/ "Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer, we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel" "The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19" Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes. Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18...terminal-comma nd-line-tool Embrace, extend, and extinguish. Except this isn’t the way to accomplish that. To embrace truly, Microsoft would need to make their own Linux distribution. Windows 10 with their own Linux kernel is their own distro. To extend, they’d have to offer something on top of that which convinced users like you, to use Microsoft’s version of Linux. You mean like office? And to finally extinguish, their Linux would have to be so popular that everyone else sees their communities fall, their users migrate, and their reason for doing any of this work gone. If windows were upgraded with a Linux kernel, then it'd effectively be the most popular Linux on the planet. The probabliity is zero. They make their money not only by selling their OS, and all of the programs. To make all of the programs running under the kernel compatible with GPL2 would make their offering far different from what it is now. The Kernel GPL2 license is no problem for closed source products, linking "against the kernel" do not cause the license to spread, there is an exception for that. So replacing the glibc whit say ulibc and add on a custom user land tools or use the BSD ones and suddenly you have a perfect environment to build your closed source distribution. Yep and it's worked well for macOS. They've used the open source Darwin kernel. There been people within the microsoft development organization who has suggested to scrap the mcirosoft windows kernel and move to the Linux kernel, port all the applications of value, some even estimated that it could have been done in 6 months (I do think it had taken a lot longer), but cancer-man Ballmer didn't really like the idea. Nardella is very different from Ballmer. |
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