Microsoft will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10

Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/shipping-a-linux-kernel-with-windows/

"Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer,
we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel"

"The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19"

Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows
Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers
to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes.

Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527870/microsoft-windows-terminal-command-line-tool

Arlen G. Holder wrote:
Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/shipping-a-linux-kernel-with-windows/

"Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer,
we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel"

"The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19"

Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows
Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers
to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes.

Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527870/microsoft-windows-terminal-command-line-tool

This is WSL as originally launched.

https://msdnshared.blob.core.windows.../04/serial.png

Whereas this new thing, I see mention of...

"Where WSL translated Linux syscalls into corresponding Windows APIs,
WSL 2 runs a very lightweight Hyper-V VM (the same type we use for Hyper-V
isolated containers) with a full Linux kernel so there is no syscall
translation occurring. It addresses many of the top feature requests
(file system performance and ABI compatibility) and puts us on an
architectural path to address many more."

"Individual Linux distros can be run either as a WSL 1 distro, or as
a WSL 2 distro, can be upgraded or downgraded at any time, and you
can run WSL 1 and WSL 2 distros side by side. WSL 2 uses an entirely
new architecture that uses a real Linux kernel."

So does this mean it will only run on machines with EPT/SLAT ?
Because that was a requirement for desktop Hyper-V operation.

So they've changed

WSL translated Linux syscalls

into

WSL2 has a real Linux kernel, trapped in Hyper-V, talking to
a Hyper-V translation layer of some kind.

And a commenter from the announcement mentions

IIRC VirtualBox =6.0 can run with Hyper-V present, it uses
HV as the execution backend.

so this scheme may not be as disruptive as it could have been.

It's shaping up to be an "opportunity to wedge Hyper-V into
desktops". Even though, as far as I know, EPT/SLAT is still
an issue for the average user. The first (and last) time I tried to
install Hyper-V, that's what blocked it.

I recollect hearing of this "Hyper-V isolated containers"
being used for some other purpose, so it wasn't created
just for this project.

https://www.howtogeek.com/402569/eve...l-2019-update/

"Windows Sandbox for Professional Users"

"The Sandbox is only available on Professional, Enterprise, and Education
editions of Windows, so Home users will have to pay to upgrade from
Home to Pro to install and use the sandbox." [golly-gee]

As for Hyper-V, well, we don't really know at the block
diagram level, exactly what is underneath Windows 10 at
the moment (i.e. when Hyper-V is not visible). It could
be hamsters and a big hamster wheel.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...etfile/1146656

This is an older picture of the same thing. Only this one
doesn't reference processor rings.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160224...bts.10%29.aspx

This announcement of "has its own kernel", ignores the
scaffolding underneath it. It's part of some larger plan.

Paul

On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote:

Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/shipping-a-linux-kernel-with-windows/

"Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer,
we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel"

"The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19"

Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows
Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers
to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes.

Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527870/microsoft-windows-terminal-command-line-tool

Embrace, extend, and extinguish.

--
Wildman GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!

On May 7, 2019, Wildman wrote
(in ):

On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote:

Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/comma...ernel-with-win
dows/

"Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer,
we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel"

"The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19"

Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows
Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers
to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes.

Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18...terminal-comma
nd-line-tool

Embrace, extend, and extinguish.

Except this isn’t the way to accomplish that.

To embrace truly, Microsoft would need to make their own Linux distribution.

To extend, they’d have to offer something on top of that which convinced
users like you, to use Microsoft’s version of Linux.

And to finally extinguish, their Linux would have to be so popular that
everyone else sees their communities fall, their users migrate, and their
reason for doing any of this work gone.

Had IBM not bought RedHat, and Microsoft bought them instead. They could have
created the foundation for the embrace step. They would have eliminated a
major Linux distributor and put themselves in a position to truly embrace
very quickly.

Embracing Linux doesn’t look too difficult to me.Azure is a better embrace
than Windows.

--
Beedle

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Hash: SHA256

Beedle wrote:
On May 7, 2019, Wildman wrote
(in ):
[..]
Embrace, extend, and extinguish.

Except this isn’t the way to accomplish that.

To embrace truly, Microsoft would need to make their own Linux
distribution.

To extend, they’d have to offer something on top of that which convinced
users like you, to use Microsoft’s version of Linux.

And to finally extinguish, their Linux would have to be so popular that
everyone else sees their communities fall, their users migrate, and their
reason for doing any of this work gone.

sounds a lot like systemd.


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|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

On 07/05/19 17:24, Wildman wrote:
On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote:

Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/shipping-a-linux-kernel-with-windows/

"Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer,
we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel"

"The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19"

Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows
Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers
to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes.

Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527870/microsoft-windows-terminal-command-line-tool

Embrace, extend, and extinguish.

maybe shrink a bit, imho
they'll never be able to rebuild TRUST, which is the most
needed feature of any piece of SW (and not only sw), again imho




--
1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
Soviet_Mario - (aka Gatto_Vizzato)

On 07/05/2019 14.39, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
"Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer,
we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel"

"The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19"

Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows
Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers
to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes.

First step to switch to a proper kernel in ms-windows

Beedle wrote:
On May 7, 2019, Wildman wrote
(in ):

On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote:

Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/comma...ernel-with-win
dows/

"Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer,
we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel"

"The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19"

Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows
Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers
to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes.

Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18...terminal-comma
nd-line-tool

Embrace, extend, and extinguish.

Except this isn’t the way to accomplish that.

To embrace truly, Microsoft would need to make their own Linux distribution.

Windows 10 with their own Linux kernel is their own distro.

To extend, they’d have to offer something on top of that which convinced
users like you, to use Microsoft’s version of Linux.

You mean like office?

And to finally extinguish, their Linux would have to be so popular that
everyone else sees their communities fall, their users migrate, and their
reason for doing any of this work gone.

If windows were upgraded with a Linux kernel, then it'd effectively be the
most popular Linux on the planet.

In article , Chris
wrote:


If windows were upgraded with a Linux kernel, then it'd effectively be the
most popular Linux on the planet.

it won't beat android.

On 2019-05-07, Chris wrote:
Beedle wrote:
On May 7, 2019, Wildman wrote
(in ):

On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote:

Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/comma...ernel-with-win
dows/

"Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer,
we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel"

"The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19"

Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows
Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers
to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes.

Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18...terminal-comma
nd-line-tool

Embrace, extend, and extinguish.

Except this isn’t the way to accomplish that.

To embrace truly, Microsoft would need to make their own Linux distribution.

Windows 10 with their own Linux kernel is their own distro.

To extend, they’d have to offer something on top of that which convinced
users like you, to use Microsoft’s version of Linux.

You mean like office?

And to finally extinguish, their Linux would have to be so popular that
everyone else sees their communities fall, their users migrate, and their
reason for doing any of this work gone.

If windows were upgraded with a Linux kernel, then it'd effectively be the
most popular Linux on the planet.

The probabliity is zero. They make their money not only by selling their
OS, and all of the programs. To make all of the programs running under
the kernel compatible with GPL2 would make their offering far different
from what it is now.

On May 7, 2019, Chris wrote
(in article ):

Beedle wrote:
On May 7, 2019, Wildman wrote
(in ):

On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote:

Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/comma...-kernel-with-w
in
dows/

"Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer,
we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel"

"The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19"

Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows
Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers
to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes.

Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18...s-terminal-com
ma
nd-line-tool

Embrace, extend, and extinguish.

Except this isn’t the way to accomplish that.

To embrace truly, Microsoft would need to make their own Linux distribution.

Windows 10 with their own Linux kernel is their own distro.

Not the traditional Linux, but I am thinking more of an analog to what Apple
did with NeXT. There should be a single kernel. The Linux kernel.
To extend, they’d have to offer something on top of that which convinced
users like you, to use Microsoft’s version of Linux.

You mean like office?

Office on Linux could be huge.
And to finally extinguish, their Linux would have to be so popular that
everyone else sees their communities fall, their users migrate, and their
reason for doing any of this work gone.

If windows were upgraded with a Linux kernel, then it'd effectively be the
most popular Linux on the planet.

Well, if no one uses it, how can it be popular? Just being there doesn’t
make it popular just like Chess game that comes with the Mac is on
everything, but if no one plays it, it’s not popular. It needs to be more
than just “there�.

--
Beedle

On 07/05/2019 21.38, William Unruh wrote:
On 2019-05-07, Chris wrote:
Beedle wrote:
On May 7, 2019, Wildman wrote
(in ):

On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote:

Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/comma...ernel-with-win
dows/

"Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer,
we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel"

"The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19"

Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows
Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers
to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes.

Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18...terminal-comma
nd-line-tool

Embrace, extend, and extinguish.

Except this isn’t the way to accomplish that.

To embrace truly, Microsoft would need to make their own Linux distribution.

Windows 10 with their own Linux kernel is their own distro.

To extend, they’d have to offer something on top of that which convinced
users like you, to use Microsoft’s version of Linux.

You mean like office?

And to finally extinguish, their Linux would have to be so popular that
everyone else sees their communities fall, their users migrate, and their
reason for doing any of this work gone.

If windows were upgraded with a Linux kernel, then it'd effectively be the
most popular Linux on the planet.

The probabliity is zero. They make their money not only by selling their
OS, and all of the programs. To make all of the programs running under
the kernel compatible with GPL2 would make their offering far different
from what it is now.

The Kernel GPL2 license is no problem for closed source products,
linking "against the kernel" do not cause the license to spread, there
is an exception for that.

So replacing the glibc whit say ulibc and add on a custom user land
tools or use the BSD ones and suddenly you have a perfect environment to
build your closed source distribution.

There been people within the microsoft development organization who has
suggested to scrap the mcirosoft windows kernel and move to the Linux
kernel, port all the applications of value, some even estimated that it
could have been done in 6 months (I do think it had taken a lot longer),
but cancer-man Ballmer didn't really like the idea.

--

//Aho

On Tue, 07 May 2019 10:24:42 -0500, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Wildman
wrote:

On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote:

Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/shipping-a-linux-kernel-with-windows/

"Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer,
we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel"

"The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19"

Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows
Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers
to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes.

Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527870/microsoft-windows-terminal-command-line-tool

Embrace, extend, and extinguish.

DOS ain't done till Lotus won't run.

Any other Microsoftisms?

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Tue, 07 May 2019 16:27:19 -0500, Zaghadka wrote:

On Tue, 07 May 2019 10:24:42 -0500, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Wildman
wrote:

On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote:

Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/shipping-a-linux-kernel-with-windows/

"Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer,
we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel"

"The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19"

Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows
Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers
to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes.

Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527870/microsoft-windows-terminal-command-line-tool

Embrace, extend, and extinguish.

DOS ain't done till Lotus won't run.

Any other Microsoftisms?

How ya been Zag? I has been awhile.

--
Wildman GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!

J.O. Aho wrote:
On 07/05/2019 21.38, William Unruh wrote:
On 2019-05-07, Chris wrote:
Beedle wrote:
On May 7, 2019, Wildman wrote
(in ):

On Tue, 07 May 2019 12:39:34 +0000, Arlen G. Holder wrote:

Microsoft said it will ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/comma...ernel-with-win
dows/

"Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this summer,
we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel"

"The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19"

Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows
Update, and it will be open source with the ability for developers
to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes.

Microsoft also announced Windows Terminal yesterday, a new command line:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18...terminal-comma
nd-line-tool

Embrace, extend, and extinguish.

Except this isn’t the way to accomplish that.

To embrace truly, Microsoft would need to make their own Linux distribution.

Windows 10 with their own Linux kernel is their own distro.

To extend, they’d have to offer something on top of that which convinced
users like you, to use Microsoft’s version of Linux.

You mean like office?

And to finally extinguish, their Linux would have to be so popular that
everyone else sees their communities fall, their users migrate, and their
reason for doing any of this work gone.

If windows were upgraded with a Linux kernel, then it'd effectively be the
most popular Linux on the planet.

The probabliity is zero. They make their money not only by selling their
OS, and all of the programs. To make all of the programs running under
the kernel compatible with GPL2 would make their offering far different
from what it is now.

The Kernel GPL2 license is no problem for closed source products,
linking "against the kernel" do not cause the license to spread, there
is an exception for that.

So replacing the glibc whit say ulibc and add on a custom user land
tools or use the BSD ones and suddenly you have a perfect environment to
build your closed source distribution.

Yep and it's worked well for macOS. They've used the open source Darwin
kernel.

There been people within the microsoft development organization who has
suggested to scrap the mcirosoft windows kernel and move to the Linux
kernel, port all the applications of value, some even estimated that it
could have been done in 6 months (I do think it had taken a lot longer),
but cancer-man Ballmer didn't really like the idea.

Nardella is very different from Ballmer.