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laptops (was: Win XP to Win 10?)



 
 
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  #16  
Old January 10th 19, 07:39 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Frank Slootweg
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Posts: 725
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"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:
In message , Ken Blake
writes:
[]
I know that a lot of people are like J. P. Gilliver, and use a laptop
in place of a desktop at home. But I can never understand why.


I can only speak for myself, but it's the hassle of switching computers.


That has been - and still is - my main reason for a long time as well.

I used to own/use desktops/towers, but that changed when we started to
work from home (late 1990's). We got a (company) laptop which was used
in a docking station (with large monitor, keyboard and 'mouse') both at
home and at the office. With the laptop, all software and most data
moved from home to office and vice versa. Networks were too slow and too
expensive to do that. Only limited amounts of data needed to do the work
were sent over the network.

When I retired, I kept the laptop and have been using laptops ever
since.

At first I bought a netbook for travel, but later switched to
single-laptop-for-everything, because of "the hassle of switching
computers". We travel for extended periods - upto three months - and
having stuff at home, which we need/want during travel is just not an
option. (And no, 'the cloud' isn't an option because of the amount of
storage needed and the (un)availability of networking.)

I realize that our use case is/may_be uncommon, but it's what *we*
need/want, so it's great to have that choice.

And yes, we also have a tablet and smartphone, but there's very little
overlap in the use of laptop, tablet and smartphone.

P.S. It seems to me that some 'desktop-people' take the term 'laptop' to
literally. My laptop nearly never sits on my lap, but nearly always on
a table or so and nearly always on (mains) power.

I travel between homes, such as other people's that I'm staying with,
and like to have a computer there, of reasonable functionality. I don't
trust (either for trust reasons or reliability) the cloud, so syncing
isn't on for me, and I like to have all my files on the computer I'm
using.


+ very_large_number
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  #17  
Old January 10th 19, 07:54 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Frank Slootweg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 725
Default laptops

Ken Blake wrote:
[...]

Not to mention that it's very difficult to travel with a monitor,
keyboard, and mouse.


WIMP! In the late 60's, early 70's, I traveled with a - core-memory -
computer and a ASR-33 Teletype! :-)

HP 2114 Computer:
http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=97

ASR-33:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33

The car (similar to this one):
https://www.classic-trader.com/uk/cars/listing/simca/1000/1000-special/1969/86746
  #18  
Old January 10th 19, 07:55 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Zaidy036[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default laptops

Mayayana wrote:
"Zaidy036" wrote

| But you can load any file onto a tablet using a free program called "Air
| Transfer" so CD/DVD not required.

Air transfer from....? You've suddenly brought
in a need for a computer and bluetooth in order
to read files on this supposedly portable device.
What if I have 3 DVDs I want to access? I'm going
to load it all via bluetooth onto an overpriced iPad?
Wouldn't it be easier to just pack up my computer
in styrofoam and take that? And then I can read on
a human-sized screen.

We actually have an iPad here. I've never really
looked at it. I have no reason to research how and
if I can shoehorn the file formats I want onto that
tiny device and whether I can get good software
to open them. My ladyfriend bought the iPad. She
uses it only occasionally, to write email when away
travelling.

| iPad is very light and better for
| travel. Easy to use on airplane. Admit typing vs. laptop not the best.
|

A lot of people seem to agree with you. All
I see is a smaller screen with more limited
functionality with a lot less control. Even when
I travel with a laptop, I'm not carrying it around
to coffee shops or using it on planes. I pack it
and use it at the other end. So losing a couple
of pounds holds no appeal.

I once went with a friend to check out tablets.
I asked the Apple disciple if I could access the file
system on an iPad. He didn't understand. After
much conferring he said that, yes, there's an app for
that. It's called Exporer! I though it was very telling
that he hadn't thought of managing files.

Then we went to the Microsoft store. They had
tablets with full Windows for about $500. That
was impressive. It really was Windows, not just
a limited kiosk OS. But then I realized: I could buy
the same thing as a desktop or laptop, probably
for less money, with a lot better functionality. For
me, since I don't have to carry it all day, smaller
just means less functional. A tricycle saves on
gas, yes, but it doesn't do what a car does.


Air Transfer is a free iOS app which uses WiFi to xfer from PC to iThing
where files will be readable and editable if desired. IPad very usable to
watch video when on domestic US flights many of which no longer offer seat
back screens.
Your choice to carry heavier laptop.


--
Zaidy036
  #19  
Old January 10th 19, 08:23 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,015
Default laptops

On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 12:20:25 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:


The most likely upgrades are CPU, memory, storage, and GPU. Most users
never consider replacing the CPU in their desktops, so they end up
having to buy a whole new desktop instead of upgrading the CPU (which
may require a better motherboard, too). Memory and storage is an easy
upgrade in laptops and desktops. To me, tablets, smartphones, and
netbooks are disposable devices: you expect them to last only about a
third, or less, that of a desktop.



Yes, I agree. Laptops start out being more expensive than desktops,
and that makes them even more expensive.


When my desktop died several times (PSU, video card, HDD), I used the
laptop as a temporary PC but with a real keyboard, mouse, and monitor
attached. It was still far less that I was used to but it worked in a
pinch until I got the parts to fix the desktop.



I still have an old laptop I could do the same with. Or I could use my
wife's desktop.

But what I would most likely do is use my phone and do less for a
while, as I do when traveling.

As an example of what I mean, I do Usenet every day when I'm home, but
never when I travel.


Obviously I'm not going
to disconnect all the cables to my desktop and tote it around on a
vacation, so there are scenarios where portability is needed (assuming
you really need a computer while on vacation - bringing one on a hiking
or camping trip just degrades the experience).



I don't go on hiking or camping trips. I never did much of it when I
was younger, and I'm much too old now.


When travelling, a Chromebook is more than sufficient.


For me, as I just said in another message, my smart phone is
sufficient. And it's smaller and lighter than your Chromebook.


Yes, if you can tolerate single-finger tapping on a screen keyboard or
trying to emulate a mouse with your finger while having to view and even
smaller screen.



I'm not good at any of those things, and I hate doing all of them. But
as I said, I do much less when traveling, so I manage.


I got a smartphone with a large screen (LG V20) but
that also means having to tote around a larger smartphone. Yet a
Chromebook sitting on a table at the resort room is much easier and
quicker to use and easier on the eyes than using a smartphone. The
Chromebook goes on vacation with me but it really doesn't do much
travelling at the endpoints of my trips. The Chromebook sits in the
resort room while I tote along my smartphone.



I know next to nothing about Chromebooks so I have no opinion of them
and don't know whether I should consider getting one. How big and
heavy are they? How much do they cost?

How does their size and weight compare to a tablet? I used to travel
with a tablet, but my smart phone is so much easier to carry around
that, despite the difficulty of using it, I greatly prefer it.


I'm sure there are folks that cannot afford both a Chromebook, laptop,
or netbook to use on their vacation (and yet they can still afford to
vacation), so a smartphone is probably sufficient. However, these same
folks will be buying cheap and slow smartphones with little memory and
tiny screens. My car came with a scissor jack and nut wrench (which I
replaced with an x-wrench to help spin on/off the lug nuts). That's
okay for rare-time use when away from home. In my garage, I use
jackstands, ramps, and a hydraulic jack - but I'm not toting all that
when I drive the car away from home.



I'm too old and frail to change a tire these days. If I get a flat, I
call service.


Not to mention that it's very difficult to travel with a monitor,
keyboard, and mouse.


True for the monitor but a 15.6" screen is still pretty good when
vacationing and a hell of a lot better than the screen in any
smartphone.



Of course. But again size and weight are very important to me when
traveling, particularly on an airplane, which is what I mostly travel
on.



Of course, all the points about serviceability and upgradability are
moot for the majority of users. Those are not the vast majority of
consumers. They don't visit here. They buy and later buy again to get
something better. They don't upgrade and few do repairs.



Yep! I agree. They are important to me, but not to everyone.
  #20  
Old January 10th 19, 08:27 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 507
Default laptops

"Mayayana" on Thu, 10 Jan 2019 11:06:10
-0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:

Then we went to the Microsoft store. They had
tablets with full Windows for about $500. That
was impressive. It really was Windows, not just
a limited kiosk OS. But then I realized: I could buy
the same thing as a desktop or laptop, probably
for less money, with a lot better functionality. For
me, since I don't have to carry it all day, smaller
just means less functional. A tricycle saves on
gas, yes, but it doesn't do what a car does.


Bingo.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
  #21  
Old January 10th 19, 08:34 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,015
Default laptops

On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 13:01:41 -0500, Big Al wrote:

On 1/10/19 11:23 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
I know that a lot of people are like J. P. Gilliver, and use a laptop
in place of a desktop at home. But I can never understand why.


I dropped the desktop for a laptop when laptops became more powerful,
quite a few years ago. I have beside me a 4GB, and 2 2GB 2.5" USB power
HDs. That's enough storage for anything I need.



It would be enough storage for me too. But the amount of storage or
memory or CPU speed aren't the only differences between laptops and
desktops to me. There's also monitor size, keyboard, touchpad vs
mouse, etc. Those are the important things to me.

But we're all different, and have different needs, different likes and
dislikes. I won't try to talk you into changing your mind.



I'm also in my 70's and have back issues,



I'm 81 and also have back problems. But fortunately I don't have them
when sitting. I only get pain if I walk more than 15-20 minutes.


don't play power games.



I don't play an games on the computer, except for Chess and solitaire,
both only very occasionally.


Sitting at the desktop was not enjoyable anymore. Damn 'golden years'
my foot!


It's better than the alternative.


Needing a quick lookup on Google was inconvenient on the
desktop while my laptop just stands up beside my chair in sleep mode and
is ready in seconds.



I'm not sure why you find that more convenient on a laptop. I can do
it on my desktop very quickly and easily, probably just as quickly and
easily as you can on your laptop.
  #22  
Old January 11th 19, 12:16 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Big Al[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,297
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On 1/10/19 2:34 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 13:01:41 -0500, Big Al wrote:

On 1/10/19 11:23 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
I know that a lot of people are like J. P. Gilliver, and use a laptop
in place of a desktop at home. But I can never understand why.


I dropped the desktop for a laptop when laptops became more powerful,
quite a few years ago. I have beside me a 4GB, and 2 2GB 2.5" USB power
HDs. That's enough storage for anything I need.



It would be enough storage for me too. But the amount of storage or
memory or CPU speed aren't the only differences between laptops and
desktops to me. There's also monitor size, keyboard, touchpad vs
mouse, etc. Those are the important things to me.

But we're all different, and have different needs, different likes and
dislikes. I won't try to talk you into changing your mind.



I'm also in my 70's and have back issues,



I'm 81 and also have back problems. But fortunately I don't have them
when sitting. I only get pain if I walk more than 15-20 minutes.


don't play power games.



I don't play an games on the computer, except for Chess and solitaire,
both only very occasionally.


Sitting at the desktop was not enjoyable anymore. Damn 'golden years'
my foot!


It's better than the alternative.


Needing a quick lookup on Google was inconvenient on the
desktop while my laptop just stands up beside my chair in sleep mode and
is ready in seconds.



I'm not sure why you find that more convenient on a laptop. I can do
it on my desktop very quickly and easily, probably just as quickly and
easily as you can on your laptop.

At the time I dropped the desktop it was down a level in the rec room.
Inconvenient. Now it would be 20 ft away, but oh well, times do change.

I do have to admit, I do remember the 21" tv screen. And now even
bigger.
  #23  
Old January 11th 19, 12:57 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,885
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Frank Slootweg wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:
[...]

Not to mention that it's very difficult to travel with a monitor,
keyboard, and mouse.


WIMP! In the late 60's, early 70's, I traveled with a - core-memory -
computer and a ASR-33 Teletype! :-)

HP 2114 Computer:
http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=97

ASR-33:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33

The car (similar to this one):
https://www.classic-trader.com/uk/cars/listing/simca/1000/1000-special/1969/86746


And back then (when dinosaurs still roamed the planet, like your gear)
the airlines weren't charging by the bag and for carry-on luggage, the
seats were wider, they served meals, and a reservation was as good as a
booking where you weren't vulnerable to getting booted due to
overbooking. Back then, cars were made to survive crashes (but the
occupants were considered expendable). Now the occupants survive and
it's the car that doesn't.

Yeah, they don't make them like they used to ... thank God!
  #24  
Old January 11th 19, 03:53 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Bill in Co[_3_]
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Posts: 104
Default laptops (was: Win XP to Win 10?)

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Bill in Co
writes:
[]
If I ever went out and bought one of these nice new svelte laptops, like
I've seen on display at some stores here, I'd probably just scrap the
latter two.

I wonder if anybody gets so used to a laptop that it ends up replacing
their desktop for almost everything they need to do (for home or limited
work use, I mean).

I bought my first laptop (W9x era), intending to use it only when
travelling or in other situations where my tower machine couldn't be
taken. (I also didn't think I'd get on with a trackpad.) It became my
main machine - I was going to say rapidly, but it might have been
gradually. I have since used laptops for all my computing needs - my
desktop machines going initially weeks then months between being turned
on, and I think it might be over a year now. (And I have got very used
to a trackpad: I have a mouse, but rarely plug it in - of late, mainly
for when the trackpad [driver] misbehaves rather than needing the
differences.)

I'd say my main initial concerns re laptops fell into three areas:
limited keyboard, all-in-one-ness, and (in practice) no slots.

Limited keyboard - I was fortunate in that my first laptop still had the
sixpack; I _did_ find the second laptop irritating in having home and
end combined with something else and needing the Fn key. (Fortunately
this one has brought them back.) Also the lack of a numeric keypad (you
get one on _most_ 15" or more laptops anyway these days) meant I
couldn't use the Alt-numpad codes I'd memorised for things like the +/-
symbol, but in practice I've found a little utility called AllChars
actually easier (the sequences are easier to remember!).

All-in-one-ness - i. e. if one part fails, you have to junk the lot.
This hasn't been as much of a problem as I thought: things that have
failed - disc drive was easy to replace; a screen wasn't _too_ hard; and
a wireless card, I just used an external one. (That was on someone
else's machine that had lots of USB and she didn't use them anyway; had
it been me, I might have replaced the card - fiddly, but not difficult.)
The one case that _is_ irritating is where - I think - the internal
power supply (that takes the 19V or battery and gives the internal
supplies) has failed and thus rendered the laptop dead, whereas I think
most of it is actually alive.

No slots (I say in practice because, although in theory laptops can have
them, [a] many don't [b] the standards for laptop expansion slots change
with bewildering rapidity) - I think I was fortunate in that my
transition to laptops coincided with a large move of peripherals that
had previously used cards, to USB. This has continued, accompanied by
changes in desktop slot standards, from PCI (IDE was already dead) to
PCI-E and later, as well as graphic card slots. These changes in both
laptop and desktop slot standards have mostly _not_ been
backward-compatible, unlike USB. My transition has probably also, if I'm
honest, accompanied my changing outlook with ageing: I have less
_desire_ to use things that need plug-in cards (and aren't available via
USB).

Another advantage of laptops is that they have a poor man's UPS: brief
power outages don't crash them, even if the battery's in a poor state,
and can move from room to room without shutting down.

I can see that a proper desktop, with a big keyboard and monitor, still
holds its attraction for those with a settled lifestyle, _or_ who are
willing to switch between devices when they travel or visit. Also, for
those needing special machines - number-crunching, gaming, and so on.
For me, the ability to now take this my main computer wherever I go (not
relying on syncing services) means I can't see me ever going back to a
desktop as my main machine: in fact other than lethargy and nostalgia
I'm not sure why I keep my desktop. But - this is just me; YMMV, and I'm
certainly not saying anyone _should_ change. I just thought I'd answer
Bill-in-Co's question from my own experience.


Thanks, John. Good to hear all that, too.

Two of the three concerns you mentioned aren't of much significant concern
for me. But I do have to say I still feel more comfortable sitting down at
the computer desk with the desktop and its larger monitor and keyboard. I
don't travel much, so portability is not an issue for me. (And I also have
the (larger) monitor for the desktop further away from me than you can get
with a laptop, obviously).

The thing that got me interested in laptops here was just recently seeing
those nice, thin, svelte laptops on display in a local store here, and kind
of "drooling" at them. But drooling at something that looks cool is one
thing, and actually using the thing, day in and day out, is another. But as
you said, each of us has their own likes and dislikes and preferences, as is
evident by the length of this thread. I guess the biggest deciding factor
is portability for most people, and how important that capability is to you.


  #25  
Old January 11th 19, 09:25 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,311
Default laptops (was: Win XP to Win 10?)

In message , Bill in Co
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Bill in Co
writes:

[]
I wonder if anybody gets so used to a laptop that it ends up replacing
their desktop for almost everything they need to do (for home or limited
work use, I mean).

[]
I'd say my main initial concerns re laptops fell into three areas:
limited keyboard, all-in-one-ness, and (in practice) no slots.

[]
Thanks, John. Good to hear all that, too.


You're welcome; it was interesting to ask myself the question(s).

Two of the three concerns you mentioned aren't of much significant concern
for me. But I do have to say I still feel more comfortable sitting down at
the computer desk with the desktop and its larger monitor and keyboard. I
don't travel much, so portability is not an issue for me. (And I also have
the (larger) monitor for the desktop further away from me than you can get
with a laptop, obviously).


Having it closer means it doesn't have to be so big, of course - so it's
only resolution that's different. I find the 1366 768 of this one more
than adequate for my needs now - and I think some modern laptops better
that. (I think even some _'phones_ do") But then, I never had huge
resolutions when I was using desktop machines. Not to say I probably
wouldn't use if available - to some extent; at work, I used a 17" 4:3 -
some colleagues had bigger (such as 16:9 or dual; I never really felt
the need.

The thing that got me interested in laptops here was just recently seeing
those nice, thin, svelte laptops on display in a local store here, and kind
of "drooling" at them. But drooling at something that looks cool is one
thing, and actually using the thing, day in and day out, is another. But as
you said, each of us has their own likes and dislikes and preferences, as is
evident by the length of this thread. I guess the biggest deciding factor
is portability for most people, and how important that capability is to you.


And, as also evident from this thread, the amount of portability
required varies considerably; some use them on battery quite a lot, some
like me hardly at all.

For me it's the switching machines I don't like. Like you, I don't
travel much - I haven't taken a holiday as most would see one for years;
my holiday is usually visiting friends. I do like to use a - my -
computer when staying with them though, so like to take this machine
with me.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Of course, this show - like every other cop show on earth - massively
overstates the prevalence of violent crime: last year, in the whole of the UK,
police fired their weapons just three times. And there were precisely zero
fatalities. - Vincent Graff in RT, 2014/11/8-14
 




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