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#61
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Hmmmmm I hadn't thought of it like that,....
I was actually buying this as a backup because the computers etc still come up but from what you've said they're vulnerable right now. I think I'll do just that and replace the APC and see if the light goes out or green. In passing the number (2) Green Protection Circuitry indicator in the center is green on mine. I'll let you know what happens after I switch them. Thanks, Robert |
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#62
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
The PSU's arrived; I opened one up to
check the contents, it had a thick foam cover over the HD and is in a textured bag which I didn't remove. It also included another bag and straps. http://i66.tinypic.com/ilbt4x.jpg http://i66.tinypic.com/1zf07f6.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/283y9.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/o0w4tt.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/zof9cn.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/2gxpwkw.jpg Robert |
#63
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
The PSU's arrived; I opened one up to check the contents, it had a thick foam cover over the HD and is in a textured bag which I didn't remove. It also included another bag and straps. http://i66.tinypic.com/ilbt4x.jpg http://i66.tinypic.com/1zf07f6.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/283y9.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/o0w4tt.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/zof9cn.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/2gxpwkw.jpg Robert Looks nice. The only thing I don't like (and I have some supplies here with it), is the black ribbon power leads. I like the traditional separate wires with the proper colors on them. I'm not a fan of "all black" wiring. It's a semi-modular, so you only have to plug in the cables as needed. There might be a couple holes spare when you're finished. Your video card might not need the PCI Express 2x3 or 2x4, and it's possible those are captive cables on this PSU. You can keep those folded up so they don't droop. I pop my new PSUs onto my home-made PSU load tester. Which only draws around 100W. I use that to check that no smoke comes out when it first arrives :-) It's not a proper functional test. Machines that check parametrics on a power supply like that, cost a lot of money. They can do stuff like present a "step load" and check for overshoot. Or, check whether the ATX cross-loading spec is being met. They do make cheap PSU testers, but unless you can take it apart and see how "evil" it is inside, I don't know whether I'd trust one of these or not. http://www.frozencpu.com/products/40...ly_Tester.html There are PSU testers cheaper than that, but they only load one rail, and that's not much of a test. The cheapest don't even provide feedback, except you get to listen to the ATX fan spinning. The Coolmax one has LEDs, so likely has window comparators per channel. It's hard to tell what load resistors they use (not documented). These companies could do themselves a lot of favors, by providing better documentation. http://www.coolmaxusa.com/download/u...ual/PS-124.pdf My tester, I didn't make a nice box for it. Probably would have doubled project cost, to box it up and make it look nice. Mine just kinda lays on the bench. I use a multimeter to measure, and mine doesn't measure anything. It's just some resistors and an on/off switch. I got the power resistors for mine, at about a buck a piece. The store also happened to have the minifit jr shrouds and pins for making a mating cable for test. Paul |
#64
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
I agree with you about the cables,. it's the
first thing I noticed and will make things that much harder. I'm not that advanced to get testor's etc but it makes sense that you would and cool that you could make your own. I took more pics because I wanted to see if the screws lined up etc. http://i64.tinypic.com/30u4f8o.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/2hcztqv.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/23gzloi.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/2hwcmep.jpg Robert |
#65
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
I agree with you about the cables,. it's the first thing I noticed and will make things that much harder. I'm not that advanced to get testor's etc but it makes sense that you would and cool that you could make your own. I took more pics because I wanted to see if the screws lined up etc. http://i64.tinypic.com/30u4f8o.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/2hcztqv.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/23gzloi.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/2hwcmep.jpg Robert Now that you have the product in hand, you should be able to compare the faceplate end with the existing computer cases and check for conflicts. The biggest screwups I've seen on some supply purchases, is the ones that were up-side-down, and when installed into the computer, that fan points to the top of the computer case. The ones you've got there look conventional to me, so the fan in the face of the supply will be facing downward when installed. The screw pattern isn't square, so you should be able to tell which way it needs to install so the screw holes line up. (It only fits properly, one way.) You can also compare the side view of the PSU, against the existing install, and get some idea how the cables will fit, whether the PSU would bump into the optical drive, and so on. You can do your fitment checks, double check cable length and so on. Paul |
#66
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
I checked and the screw pattern is the same but
to check the side view with the existing install won't I have to open up the computers again? I'd rather not do that but I guess it's better I check to see if there are issues. Robert |
#67
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
I checked and the screw pattern is the same but to check the side view with the existing install won't I have to open up the computers again? I'd rather not do that but I guess it's better I check to see if there are issues. Robert At this point, you want to do enough to convince yourself the supply is ready to use, when the current one fails. If your memory is good, of what the innards look like, then you don't have to open it up again. You do have some good digital camera shots of the layout for reference. The worst thing, would be keeping a supply (past the 15-day or 30-day return) that doesn't fit. Paul |
#68
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
I took your good advice:
Here's the 8500: http://i63.tinypic.com/rhn4tx.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/2nv5p3n.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/1zntqw4.jpg and the 780: http://i66.tinypic.com/2zea1oy.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/df7pmo.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/15qyydx.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/2znv0vl.jpg Both seem to fit and have the right screw patterns and the cables seem long enough. Robert |
#69
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
I took your good advice: Here's the 8500: http://i63.tinypic.com/rhn4tx.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/2nv5p3n.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/1zntqw4.jpg Verified matches for all power cables ? Page 21 of 8500 "Owner's Manual" and the 780: PWR1 (24 pin) PWR2 (4 pin) are standard items http://i66.tinypic.com/2zea1oy.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/df7pmo.jpg 780 Rear case curvature ? http://i65.tinypic.com/15qyydx.jpg Differences on cable exits, OK 780 has BTX layout http://i63.tinypic.com/2znv0vl.jpg SATA4 cable to dual drive HDD bay at bottom SATA2 cable to optical bay ? Could be right-angle or left-angle connectors Both seem to fit and have the right screw patterns and the cables seem long enough. Robert On the 780, you might want to look at your modular cabling, and see whether the SATA peripherals need right-angle or left-angle connectors. I checked my (spare) Seasonic S12 and it appears to drape the right way, for the angled connectors to fit the drives OK. That doesn't mean necessarily that yours go the same way, but since Seasonic makes their own supplies and doesn't tend to buy contract supplies, there should be consistency from one design to the next. S12 cable + (for want of a name, I call this the | SATA4 cable, with the four connectors) | +-X | +-X HDD \ | \__ use these two for bottom HDD bay +-X HDD / | X --- straight connector is less convenient You could check your SATA2 cable, to see whether there is a straight one on the end. The straight end is OK, except the wire will have to loop out into space, before the second connector fits flush against the second optical bay (if you have one). It's too hard for me to plan a cable route for the 780 using just my minds eye. One thing missing from the 780, is a structural bar running across the top part of the chassis. Sometimes, for "excess" cable, like folding the main cable, you need a place to tie-wrap the main cable to the bar, so it doesn't fall down into the computer. I don't see a lot of tie points to work with in the 780, to do a decent job of it. But that's always a problem with computer cases, is not enough "conveniences" for tying off things that need to hang down. That is part of planning, having a look to see how everything will be kept in place. When there is a wad of cables behind the PSU, something has to hold the excess cables up. On my newer machine, I made a custom adapter for a fan to be mounted next to the (hot) Vcore regulator. And one of the features of the custom adapter (a piece of board!), is a sawn out area, where the folded excess cable from the PSU, gets some support. It means I can't use all the 5.25" bays, but the top bay has an optical drive, while excess cable lays in the second 5.25" bay. So that's how I solved that issue in the Antec Sonata casing. This has always been a problem with my computer builds. Some machines have the metal bar, it's riveted and cannot be removed and always seems to get in the way. But it does give a tie point, if there's no other way to hold up the "cable wad". That structural bar gives the computer case stiffness, but it gets in the way when you're trying to maneuver the hard drive into its mount point. Modern case designs have dispensed with it (a plus and minus at the same time). xps-8500_owner's manual_en-us.pdf optiplex-780_service manual_en-us.pdf Paul |
#70
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Boy, you throw allot at me *L*
Um, are you saying to open the computers again and pull the cables and check to see if the PSU cables fit? I not following you and don't know what you mean by straight even with your diagram? I think I understand what you mean by right or left but do you want me to disconnect the HD and optical drive cables as well and try to connect the new ones or what? I'm not clear on what or how you want me to check? It sounds as if you want me to do a mock PSU exhange by hooking it all up. I know what you mean about trying to keep it clean and you'd think that they would design cases with that in mind, with a sort of built in wiring harness to keep everything clean. Robert |
#71
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
Boy, you throw allot at me *L* Um, are you saying to open the computers again and pull the cables and check to see if the PSU cables fit? I not following you and don't know what you mean by straight even with your diagram? I think I understand what you mean by right or left but do you want me to disconnect the HD and optical drive cables as well and try to connect the new ones or what? I'm not clear on what or how you want me to check? It sounds as if you want me to do a mock PSU exhange by hooking it all up. I know what you mean about trying to keep it clean and you'd think that they would design cases with that in mind, with a sort of built in wiring harness to keep everything clean. Robert You can simulate this without opening the computer. Hold a hard drive, in the normal horizontal position. Grab the SATA4 module cable, and pretend it's draping down from the modular connectors on the back of the PSU. The angled connectors on the cable, should fit directly onto the drive. And you might notice the last connector on the cable is different than the angled ones. And the straight one might not fit, without bending the cable a bit (bend radius). Using the straight connector on the end, maximizes the amount of cable you have to work with. So what you're checking, is two things. 1) angled connector is the right-way-round to plug into the hard drive, without having to turn the hard drive up-side-down. 2) Cable is long enough, to stretch from the top of the case (where the modular output on the FM is located), all the way down to the two hard drive bays. FM cable + | | +-X | +-X HDD \ | \__ use these two for bottom HDD bay +-X HDD / | X --- straight connector is less convenient You can do a rough check of the fit, without cracking the computer case open again. Paul |
#72
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
I didn't really understand what you were asking me
although I think I understand the concept. I'm assumed all connections are standard etc. and I don't think they're be a problem about fitting. Here's all the additional wiring that isn't attached to the PSU and the power cord. http://i66.tinypic.com/rtgojm.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/j9o58o.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/f3s0g6.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/33wqo04.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/9vaale.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/2wem540.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/2uha3bq.jpg http://i64.tinypic.com/359bvgw.jpg I did open the 780 and I test fitted the PWR1 cable but I have no idea what the other two square connectors go to? I looked for anything like them on the motherboard and the HD and optical drive and couldn't find anything close to them. I realized later I had the PSU backwards but I don't think it matters much. http://i65.tinypic.com/2vsmdyo.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/rk5474.jpg Robert |
#73
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
I didn't really understand what you were asking me although I think I understand the concept. I'm assumed all connections are standard etc. and I don't think they're be a problem about fitting. Here's all the additional wiring that isn't attached to the PSU and the power cord. http://i66.tinypic.com/rtgojm.jpg Are these cables really long enough ? http://i63.tinypic.com/j9o58o.jpg http://i63.tinypic.com/f3s0g6.jpg Floppy adapter http://i63.tinypic.com/33wqo04.jpg Molex http://i65.tinypic.com/9vaale.jpg PCI Express with 2x3 or 2x4 option http://i67.tinypic.com/2wem540.jpg SATA2 ? http://i67.tinypic.com/2uha3bq.jpg SATA4 cable http://i64.tinypic.com/359bvgw.jpg "Modular end" of cable I did open the 780 and I test fitted the PWR1 cable but I have no idea what the other two square connectors go to? I looked for anything like them on the motherboard and the HD and optical drive and couldn't find anything close to them. I realized later I had the PSU backwards but I don't think it matters much. http://i65.tinypic.com/2vsmdyo.jpg 780 custom cable outlet hole Not same as new supply... http://i63.tinypic.com/rk5474.jpg 2x2 and 2x4 ATX12V cable Robert The cables you show in rk5474 could be the two halves of a 2x4 cable. The two pieces should "align on a small rib" when inserted into a 2x4 connector. http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon...tors.html#eps8 This shows a 2x2 going into an enthusiast motherboard 2x4 connector. http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/4pinin8.jpg The deal with the connectors is this: 1) Each yellow wire carries 6 amps. 2) The ATX spec defined a 2x2 connector, suited to 12A total. 12V * 12A = 144W of power. With VCore efficiency taken into account, this can probably handle a 130W processor, with 14W of waste heat coming from the VCore components. 3) Enthusiasts want to "overclock" their motherboards. The power drawn through ATX12V in that case, could be 200-300W depending on situation (Pentium Dual D805 4GHz). 4) Motherboard makers started including a 2x4 on the board, capable of carrying 288W no problem at all. There are four yellow wires and four black wires on the 2x4. With the accursed all-black wiring though, it's harder to gain the visual cues, the yellow wire helping the user align the two halves of the 2x4 to prepare them for insertion into a 2x4 socket. If the motherboard has a 2x4 socket Plug in a 2x2 PSU, get up to 144W of power (non-overclocking user) Plug in a 2x4 PSU, get up to 288W of power (overclocker user) Your motherboards *should not* have a 2x4 on the motherboard surface. Unless a Dell is an "Alienware" branding machine, regular Dells are not really intended as overclocker material. Thus, yours looks like this case. You will be plugging at 2x2 into a 2x2 like this. You need *one half* of your two-headed cable. The snap-tab aligns with the tab on the motherboard. http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/12v4pin.jpg Note that the connector has a cable lock. It snaps over the tab on the motherboard. The cable lock prevents "thermal pushout" of the connector and keeps it seated. When removing the 2x2, you need to "depress" the top part of the tab, to release it, while at the same time, pulling up on the connector. On some computers, if you have big hands, there's practically no clearance for you to depress the tab. The two heads, viewed end on, on the Seasonic, look like this. You can use one head, with the tab "T" snapping onto the mating tab on the motherboard end. The tab "T" functions as an optical cue for orientation too. In addition, the nylon shroud around each pin is shaped, to control insertion. If you're having trouble fitting it, verify the "shapes" on the section you selected, mate with the "shapes" on the motherboard side. Two of the shroud pin enclosures are four-sided, two are six-sided T T TTT X X X X == X X X X X X X X X X X X TTTTT End view of connector ___ ___ showing shapes which help | | | | control mating only one way. | | | | \_/ --- ___ ___ | | | | | | | | --- \_/ If they'd stuck with the yellow wire, you would also be able to make a note of which side was yellow when disassembling the old PSU, and double-check yellow was on the same side once the new connector was seated. But with the all-black wire, one very valuable visual cue is missing. ******* Here is a picture of me mocking up cable insertion on your machine with the two drive bays at the bottom of the computer. My Seasonic cable seems to have the correct orientation of cables, and I expect yours does too. You can see in the picture, that really both the angled and the straight connector on SATA4, some wire "sticks out" between drives. Which is different than the "perfectly flat" and nice layout, of the Dell implementation. For the angled connectors, it depends on how much "slack" is between connectors, as to how far it sticks out. https://i.postimg.cc/xTBF9R0S/SATA4-fit-test.jpg I don't think this is a big deal, but you know how these things bolt together better than I do. Paul |
#74
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
You're not going to believe this,....
The new APC Surge Arrest arrived,. so first thing I did was exchange the old APC for the new one and I still have the red light! I see what you were talking about now,. fitting and connecting the cables and tying them off and depending if it has enough clearance and give etc. I see the cable bulging your referring to. I know what you mean about the clips,.. to get the PWR1 cable out I had to hold down on the upper part of the clip to release it and your right there wasn't much room. It was harder than hell to get it out and just as hard to get the PSU one out as well. I assumed the cables are long enough? I should be OK with the PWR1 cable and I think maybe the orange connector is one of the ones you spoke about? What about the blue and black connectors? and the multiple color ones on the edge that control my card reader? It makes it so much more difficult with all black wiring. I don't know if I can do this. Here's another shot of the 8500 http://i63.tinypic.com/72t069.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/ffddok.jpg and the 780 http://i64.tinypic.com/fypw8.jpg What do you think? Robert The second picture was the PWR1 connector |
#75
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
You're not going to believe this,.... The new APC Surge Arrest arrived,. so first thing I did was exchange the old APC for the new one and I still have the red light! Does the APC Surge Arrestor have a one-page user manual ? What does it say for "conditions that turn on red light" ? They make outlet testers for three-prong wiring. You want one which doesn't jack up the price by including all sorts of "plastic accessories" in the package. An outlet tester, you should be able to buy it as a separate item. The three lights on the outlet tester, there is a list of "conditions" on the side of the tester, like "no ground", "hot and neutral reversed" and so on. The device is typically constructed with 220K resistors and neon bulbs as a visual indicator. Those can work directly with line voltage. You plug the tester into an outlet (in place of plugging in the surge arrestor), and check that the "all good" pattern lights up. https://www.amazon.com/ELECTRICAL-RE.../dp/B002Q3R7HI You can find these at $5.00 for just the plug tester, and $20.00 for a package filled with other, useless crap. I keep one in my toolbox, when visiting relatives. Like, if I were to get a shock off a TV set maybe, I'd pull out the $5 outlet tester and see if I get the "two success light" pattern on the end of it. I think to get one of those the last time, I had to go to a small in-town hardware store. The Home Depot might not have had it (or at least I couldn't find it at the time). I see what you were talking about now,. fitting and connecting the cables and tying them off and depending if it has enough clearance and give etc. I see the cable bulging your referring to. You don't have to simulate a replacement operation entirely. The objective of this exercise is to determine if the Seasonic FM is a "bust" or not. That's why I asked you to inspect the faceplate area, to make sure nothing "custom" about the computer case gets in the way. I know what you mean about the clips,.. to get the PWR1 cable out I had to hold down on the upper part of the clip to release it and your right there wasn't much room. It was harder than hell to get it out and just as hard to get the PSU one out as well. Some computer stuff will give you sore fingers for the effort. I assumed the cables are long enough? I should be OK with the PWR1 cable and I think maybe the orange connector is one of the ones you spoke about? The orange and blue are SATA data cables. That's a "private" connection between motherboard and disk drive. The black weird one, I'm not sure of. The 8500 manual probably will tell me. Page 21 of the manual shows "connector item #15", while page 22 says the black cable is "Front Panel USB". There are enough pins on the connector, for two USB3 or four USB2, so your front panel has either of those. Again, the black cable is "private" between motherboard and front panel of computer case. What about the blue and black connectors? and the multiple color ones on the edge that control my card reader? It makes it so much more difficult with all black wiring. I don't know if I can do this. Here's another shot of the 8500 http://i63.tinypic.com/72t069.jpg The power cables for PWR1 and PWR2 should be long enough on the Seasonic. I can tell because they didn't use "stupid" locations for PWR1 and PWR2. They're "normal" locations. The ATX12V one plugs into the area where the VCore regulator is situated. The main connector is mid-board on the right edge. http://i65.tinypic.com/ffddok.jpg I think most of the other wires I'm seeing are accessory wires of one sort and another. and the 780 http://i64.tinypic.com/fypw8.jpg It looks like your 780 doesn't have a floppy drive installed that I can see. What could be the floppy data cable seems to be resting on top of the main fan shroud. For the 780, your SATA4 cable will be covering the lower two drives. Your SATA2 cable will be covering the optical drive. Your second optical drive bay might be a location to "stuff" unused captive cables. The 780 is relatively clean, and my concern there will be the placing of a cable tie around the excess cabling. I can't really predict what issues will pop up then. As I indicated in other answers, you face the excess cable issue as it comes, and look for places to store or strap them. When replacing the 780 PSU, you won't be using the SATA cable guide any more, but I doubt that will be more than an aesthetic issue. The data cables don't look excessively long. And it doesn't look like they used the cable guides underneath the floppy drive, so that could be one less thing to fight with there. What do you think? Robert Everything looks under control. Between your picture taking skills (for documentation purposes) and the 780 and 8500 service manuals, I think you will figure all this stuff out. Obviously, only change power supplies on *one* computer at a time, so the second one can be used for Googling if the need arises. The wire gauge and style of the PSU wiring, should hint at what bits are about to be changed out. Cables which don't look like PSU, are likely "private" wires running between two other components (mobo and drives, mobo and card reader etc). Paul |
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